Why Has Hogan Forum Gone Dead?

[Shaggie]

"The idea was so old it was almost new" Ben Hogan Life Magazine Author Herbert Warren Wind

[k001k47]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1388674282' post='8384225']
What are some of those more serious threads k001k47?
[/quote]
Hell if I know. ehuehuehueheh

[Shaggie]

Did you get a chance to read it and what do you think??

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='Shaggie' timestamp='1388894398' post='8400417']
Did you get a chance to read it and what do you think??
[/quote]

read what?

[Shaggie]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1389102657' post='8414613']
[quote name='Shaggie' timestamp='1388894398' post='8400417']
Did you get a chance to read it and what do you think??
[/quote]

read what?
[/quote]

[nicebutdim]

[quote name='Shaggie' timestamp='1389143925' post='8419033']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1389102657' post='8414613']
[quote name='Shaggie' timestamp='1388894398' post='8400417']
Did you get a chance to read it and what do you think??
[/quote]

read what?
[/quote]
[/quote]

Thank you. Very interesting read.

[nicebutdim]

[quote name='nicebutdim' timestamp='1389153178' post='8420003']
[quote name='Shaggie' timestamp='1389143925' post='8419033']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1389102657' post='8414613']
[quote name='Shaggie' timestamp='1388894398' post='8400417']
Did you get a chance to read it and what do you think??
[/quote]

read what?
[/quote]
[/quote]

Thank you. Very interesting read.
[/quote]

The most important part for me was this bit......

"I was very conscious of cupping the left wrist. in fact, it was the only thing I concentrated on, the rest of my swing operating on muscle memory"

IMO a true testament to why this was HIS secret applicable to only a few others in the right circumstances. Hogan was already a professional winning national tournaments, who had a very strong draw bias in his swing. Also demonstrates how shifting focus and intention within the swing can profoundly alter its operation, depending on the other components of ones swing. For some, focusing on the hands can lead to a stalled and improper function of the pivot, so I would suggest shifting focus in the other direction until correct muscle memory is ingrained.

[Shaggie]

how about when he said roll my hands over He is saying something that is so easy to do but noone wants to believe it
I can teach this in 10 minutes and I have
Its all about the hand path
cupping your wrists at the top is not where you hit the ball
i is where you roll your hands into the ball and then roll them through on the sane path i

[nicebutdim]

[quote name='Shaggie' timestamp='1389162441' post='8420599']
how about when he said roll my hands over He is saying something that is so easy to do but noone wants to believe it
I can teach this in 10 minutes and I have
Its all about the hand path
cupping your wrists at the top is not where you hit the ball
i is where you roll your hands into the ball and then roll them through on the sane path i
[/quote]

So what leads the ds, the hands or the pivot?...... and what do you believe governs the later?

[k001k47]

[quote name='Shaggie' timestamp='1389143925' post='8419033']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1389102657' post='8414613']
[quote name='Shaggie' timestamp='1388894398' post='8400417']
Did you get a chance to read it and what do you think??
[/quote]

read what?
[/quote]
[/quote]

I feel like I've read this approximately one thousand times. Good read.

[tembolo1284]

So why is the Hogan forum dead? Nice read even on my approximate thousandeth reading!

[Shaggie]

[quote name='nicebutdim' timestamp='1389165917' post='8420701']
[quote name='Shaggie' timestamp='1389162441' post='8420599']
how about when he said roll my hands over He is saying something that is so easy to do but noone wants to believe it
I can teach this in 10 minutes and I have
Its all about the hand path
cupping your wrists at the top is not where you hit the ball
i is where you roll your hands into the ball and then roll them through on the sane path i
[/quote]

So what leads the ds, the hands or the pivot?...... and what do you believe governs the later?
[/quote]

After your roll your hands back to top of backswing your only thought is to hit the ball with your right hand as hard as you have to and let the hands rotate over
The pivot will take care of itself

[nicebutdim]

[quote name='Shaggie' timestamp='1389229249' post='8425219']
[quote name='nicebutdim' timestamp='1389165917' post='8420701']
[quote name='Shaggie' timestamp='1389162441' post='8420599']
how about when he said roll my hands over He is saying something that is so easy to do but noone wants to believe it
I can teach this in 10 minutes and I have
Its all about the hand path
cupping your wrists at the top is not where you hit the ball
i is where you roll your hands into the ball and then roll them through on the sane path i
[/quote]

So what leads the ds, the hands or the pivot?...... and what do you believe governs the later?
[/quote]

After your roll your hands back to top of backswing your only thought is to hit the ball with your right hand as hard as you have to and let the hands rotate over
The pivot will take care of itself
[/quote]

Thank you....... This would seem to work dependent on a few things, such as having a very good set-up combined with balance and pressures. Automating the pivot as much as possible must surely help a swing method such as this?

[nicebutdim]

[quote name='Shaggie' timestamp='1389229249' post='8425219']
[quote name='nicebutdim' timestamp='1389165917' post='8420701']
[quote name='Shaggie' timestamp='1389162441' post='8420599']
how about when he said roll my hands over He is saying something that is so easy to do but noone wants to believe it
I can teach this in 10 minutes and I have
Its all about the hand path
cupping your wrists at the top is not where you hit the ball
i is where you roll your hands into the ball and then roll them through on the sane path i
[/quote]

So what leads the ds, the hands or the pivot?...... and what do you believe governs the later?
[/quote]

After your roll your hands back to top of backswing your only thought is to hit the ball with your right hand as hard as you have to and let the hands rotate over
The pivot will take care of itself
[/quote]

Shaggie, you might be a genius........... no bullxxxx.

[dairic]

[quote name='Shaggie' timestamp='1389229249' post='8425219']
[quote name='nicebutdim' timestamp='1389165917' post='8420701']
[quote name='Shaggie' timestamp='1389162441' post='8420599']
how about when he said roll my hands over He is saying something that is so easy to do but noone wants to believe it
I can teach this in 10 minutes and I have
Its all about the hand path
cupping your wrists at the top is not where you hit the ball
i is where you roll your hands into the ball and then roll them through on the sane path i
[/quote]

So what leads the ds, the hands or the pivot?...... and what do you believe governs the later?
[/quote]

After your roll your hands back to top of backswing your only thought is to hit the ball with your right hand as hard as you have to and let the hands rotate over
The pivot will take care of itself
[/quote]

What ever happened to the free ride down?

[Hoganstriker]

If Hogan rolled his wrists how come a man so precise as him wrote in his book describing the golf swing that the rolling supination or whatever BEGAN at impact? If for him it truly BEGAN at impact that means coming in there was no rolling and if it BEGAN at impact that the face was already square before coming to impact.
Rolling the wrists and swing to right field is one way to play the game but Hogan exited left as everybody knows.
Not claiming expertise or study on Hogan beyond reading the book and a few videos but seems to me if he began rolling his wrists pre impact that the clubface post impact would be much more shut for him and its not in the post impact photos I have seen.
If Hogan was squared up early he sure would not want to roll. In fact he may want a SLIGHT opposite roll as some other Hoganiphiles on the web have posted.
I think the forum has gone dead because Hogan is dead. People maybe don't want to work like Hogan worked they want shortcuts.

[k001k47]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1389183530' post='8421009']
So why is the Hogan forum dead? Nice read even on my approximate thousandeth reading!
[/quote]
I don't know. Post yer swing.

[nicebutdim]

[quote name='Hoganstriker' timestamp='1389323915' post='8432625']
If Hogan rolled his wrists how come a man so precise as him wrote in his book describing the golf swing that the rolling supination or whatever BEGAN at impact? If for him it truly BEGAN at impact that means coming in there was no rolling and if it BEGAN at impact that the face was already square before coming to impact.
Rolling the wrists and swing to right field is one way to play the game but Hogan exited left as everybody knows.
[b]Not claiming expertise or study on Hogan beyond reading the book and a few videos but seems to me if he began rolling his wrists pre impact that the clubface post impact would be much more shut for him and its not in the post impact photos I have seen.[/b]
If Hogan was squared up early he sure would not want to roll. In fact he may want a SLIGHT opposite roll as some other Hoganiphiles on the web have posted.
I think the forum has gone dead because Hogan is dead. People maybe don't want to work like Hogan worked they want shortcuts.
[/quote]

The recent tangent of the thread is regarding Hogan's Life Magazine article where he talks about in the bs consciously rolling the club face as open as possible, and even cupping under the left wrist to exaggerate it further. I highly recommend reading it. If he did indeed do this, then your suggestion of only rolling the wrists after impact would have interesting consequences to say the least......... I would recommend those standing to his far right to start ducking for cover.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='k001k47' timestamp='1389326656' post='8432953']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1389183530' post='8421009']
So why is the Hogan forum dead? Nice read even on my approximate thousandeth reading!
[/quote]
I don't know. Post yer swing.
[/quote]

Already have a bunch of times in my swing thread.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='nicebutdim' timestamp='1389348655' post='8433859']
[quote name='Hoganstriker' timestamp='1389323915' post='8432625']
If Hogan rolled his wrists how come a man so precise as him wrote in his book describing the golf swing that the rolling supination or whatever BEGAN at impact? If for him it truly BEGAN at impact that means coming in there was no rolling and if it BEGAN at impact that the face was already square before coming to impact.
Rolling the wrists and swing to right field is one way to play the game but Hogan exited left as everybody knows.
[b]Not claiming expertise or study on Hogan beyond reading the book and a few videos but seems to me if he began rolling his wrists pre impact that the clubface post impact would be much more shut for him and its not in the post impact photos I have seen.[/b]
If Hogan was squared up early he sure would not want to roll. In fact he may want a SLIGHT opposite roll as some other Hoganiphiles on the web have posted.
I think the forum has gone dead because Hogan is dead. People maybe don't want to work like Hogan worked they want shortcuts.
[/quote]

The recent tangent of the thread is regarding Hogan's Life Magazine article where he talks about in the bs consciously rolling the club face as open as possible, and even cupping under the left wrist to exaggerate it further. I highly recommend reading it. If he did indeed do this, then your suggestion of only rolling the wrists after impact would have interesting consequences to say the least......... I would recommend those standing to his far right to start ducking for cover.
[/quote]

Is this what he actually does? Or was it just a feeling?

Doesn't look like he was overly fanning the club open on his takeaway.

[ej002]

After fanning it open so far how doesn't he get the sweet spot back on planes? If you don't more skanks than a Tijuana brothel

[nicebutdim]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1389355885' post='8434015']
[quote name='nicebutdim' timestamp='1389348655' post='8433859']
[quote name='Hoganstriker' timestamp='1389323915' post='8432625']
If Hogan rolled his wrists how come a man so precise as him wrote in his book describing the golf swing that the rolling supination or whatever BEGAN at impact? If for him it truly BEGAN at impact that means coming in there was no rolling and if it BEGAN at impact that the face was already square before coming to impact.
Rolling the wrists and swing to right field is one way to play the game but Hogan exited left as everybody knows.
[b]Not claiming expertise or study on Hogan beyond reading the book and a few videos but seems to me if he began rolling his wrists pre impact that the clubface post impact would be much more shut for him and its not in the post impact photos I have seen.[/b]
If Hogan was squared up early he sure would not want to roll. In fact he may want a SLIGHT opposite roll as some other Hoganiphiles on the web have posted.
I think the forum has gone dead because Hogan is dead. People maybe don't want to work like Hogan worked they want shortcuts.
[/quote]

The recent tangent of the thread is regarding Hogan's Life Magazine article where he talks about in the bs consciously rolling the club face as open as possible, and even cupping under the left wrist to exaggerate it further. I highly recommend reading it. If he did indeed do this, then your suggestion of only rolling the wrists after impact would have interesting consequences to say the least......... I would recommend those standing to his far right to start ducking for cover.
[/quote]

Is this what he actually does? Or was it just a feeling?

Doesn't look like he was overly fanning the club open on his takeaway.
[/quote]

I guess the real question should be, is Hogan an honest man or a shameless lying sob? He may not have been an amazing coach, but he certainly couldn't have written it any plainer in the article.

[nicebutdim]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1389356497' post='8434037']
After fanning it open so far how doesn't he get the sweet spot back on planes? If you don't more skanks than a Tijuana brothel
[/quote]

I would guess you roll the right hand back on the same path (might feel tighter and a bit ott) and hit hard with the palm through the ball...... I suggest we go try it whilst employing a solid setup position (geared to automating everything moving forwards) and maintaining centered balance.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='nicebutdim' timestamp='1389360834' post='8434217']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1389355885' post='8434015']
[quote name='nicebutdim' timestamp='1389348655' post='8433859']
[quote name='Hoganstriker' timestamp='1389323915' post='8432625']
If Hogan rolled his wrists how come a man so precise as him wrote in his book describing the golf swing that the rolling supination or whatever BEGAN at impact? If for him it truly BEGAN at impact that means coming in there was no rolling and if it BEGAN at impact that the face was already square before coming to impact.
Rolling the wrists and swing to right field is one way to play the game but Hogan exited left as everybody knows.
[b]Not claiming expertise or study on Hogan beyond reading the book and a few videos but seems to me if he began rolling his wrists pre impact that the clubface post impact would be much more shut for him and its not in the post impact photos I have seen.[/b]
If Hogan was squared up early he sure would not want to roll. In fact he may want a SLIGHT opposite roll as some other Hoganiphiles on the web have posted.
I think the forum has gone dead because Hogan is dead. People maybe don't want to work like Hogan worked they want shortcuts.
[/quote]

The recent tangent of the thread is regarding Hogan's Life Magazine article where he talks about in the bs consciously rolling the club face as open as possible, and even cupping under the left wrist to exaggerate it further. I highly recommend reading it. If he did indeed do this, then your suggestion of only rolling the wrists after impact would have interesting consequences to say the least......... I would recommend those standing to his far right to start ducking for cover.
[/quote]

Is this what he actually does? Or was it just a feeling?

Doesn't look like he was overly fanning the club open on his takeaway.
[/quote]

I guess the real question should be, is Hogan an honest man or a shameless lying sob? He may not have been an amazing coach, but he certainly couldn't have written it any plainer in the article.
[/quote]

I worry for a slicer chap who tries this...he'll banana it so bad it'll boomerang back and hit him in the head.

I'm sure he was honestly describing what he felt...but it's not necessarily what he was doing.

[nicebutdim]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1389361646' post='8434293']
[quote name='nicebutdim' timestamp='1389360834' post='8434217']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1389355885' post='8434015']
[quote name='nicebutdim' timestamp='1389348655' post='8433859']
[quote name='Hoganstriker' timestamp='1389323915' post='8432625']
If Hogan rolled his wrists how come a man so precise as him wrote in his book describing the golf swing that the rolling supination or whatever BEGAN at impact? If for him it truly BEGAN at impact that means coming in there was no rolling and if it BEGAN at impact that the face was already square before coming to impact.
Rolling the wrists and swing to right field is one way to play the game but Hogan exited left as everybody knows.
[b]Not claiming expertise or study on Hogan beyond reading the book and a few videos but seems to me if he began rolling his wrists pre impact that the clubface post impact would be much more shut for him and its not in the post impact photos I have seen.[/b]
If Hogan was squared up early he sure would not want to roll. In fact he may want a SLIGHT opposite roll as some other Hoganiphiles on the web have posted.
I think the forum has gone dead because Hogan is dead. People maybe don't want to work like Hogan worked they want shortcuts.
[/quote]

The recent tangent of the thread is regarding Hogan's Life Magazine article where he talks about in the bs consciously rolling the club face as open as possible, and even cupping under the left wrist to exaggerate it further. I highly recommend reading it. If he did indeed do this, then your suggestion of only rolling the wrists after impact would have interesting consequences to say the least......... I would recommend those standing to his far right to start ducking for cover.
[/quote]

Is this what he actually does? Or was it just a feeling?

Doesn't look like he was overly fanning the club open on his takeaway.
[/quote]

I guess the real question should be, is Hogan an honest man or a shameless lying sob? He may not have been an amazing coach, but he certainly couldn't have written it any plainer in the article.
[/quote]

I worry for a slicer chap who tries this...he'll banana it so bad it'll boomerang back and hit him in the head.

I'm sure he was honestly describing what he felt...but it's not necessarily what he was doing.
[/quote]

I'm sure it wouldn't be pretty........ but there's a reason Hogan's 5 Lessons starts with the grip, stance, posture....... get this wrong and it wouldn't be worth a monkeys........... secondly if the ideal hand motion and hand path could be taught then it would correct an OTT move....... so I guess there is no point in looking at it in isolation and expecting it to yield results when applying it improperly.

Rembember that Hogan was (perhaps?) applying these things when already a pro golfer who could shoot the lights out and win big tournies against other legends in the game..... a hacker with crap fundamentals conceivably wouldn't know where to start..... such as myself ;-)

[nicebutdim]

[quote name='nicebutdim' timestamp='1389362419' post='8434355']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1389361646' post='8434293']
[quote name='nicebutdim' timestamp='1389360834' post='8434217']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1389355885' post='8434015']
[quote name='nicebutdim' timestamp='1389348655' post='8433859']
[quote name='Hoganstriker' timestamp='1389323915' post='8432625']
If Hogan rolled his wrists how come a man so precise as him wrote in his book describing the golf swing that the rolling supination or whatever BEGAN at impact? If for him it truly BEGAN at impact that means coming in there was no rolling and if it BEGAN at impact that the face was already square before coming to impact.
Rolling the wrists and swing to right field is one way to play the game but Hogan exited left as everybody knows.
[b]Not claiming expertise or study on Hogan beyond reading the book and a few videos but seems to me if he began rolling his wrists pre impact that the clubface post impact would be much more shut for him and its not in the post impact photos I have seen.[/b]
If Hogan was squared up early he sure would not want to roll. In fact he may want a SLIGHT opposite roll as some other Hoganiphiles on the web have posted.
I think the forum has gone dead because Hogan is dead. People maybe don't want to work like Hogan worked they want shortcuts.
[/quote]

The recent tangent of the thread is regarding Hogan's Life Magazine article where he talks about in the bs consciously rolling the club face as open as possible, and even cupping under the left wrist to exaggerate it further. I highly recommend reading it. If he did indeed do this, then your suggestion of only rolling the wrists after impact would have interesting consequences to say the least......... I would recommend those standing to his far right to start ducking for cover.
[/quote]

Is this what he actually does? Or was it just a feeling?

Doesn't look like he was overly fanning the club open on his takeaway.
[/quote]

I guess the real question should be, is Hogan an honest man or a shameless lying sob? He may not have been an amazing coach, but he certainly couldn't have written it any plainer in the article.
[/quote]

I worry for a slicer chap who tries this...he'll banana it so bad it'll boomerang back and hit him in the head.

I'm sure he was honestly describing what he felt...but it's not necessarily what he was doing.
[/quote]

I'm sure it wouldn't be pretty........ but there's a reason Hogan's 5 Lessons starts with the grip, stance, posture....... get this wrong and it wouldn't be worth a monkeys........... secondly if the ideal hand motion and hand path could be taught then it would correct an OTT move....... so I guess there is no point in looking at it in isolation and expecting it to yield results when applying it improperly.

Rembember that Hogan was (perhaps?) applying these things when already a pro golfer who could shoot the lights out and win big tournies against other legends in the game..... a hacker with crap fundamentals conceivably wouldn't know where to start..... such as myself ;-)
[/quote]

One more thing I might add is that Hogan mentioned as much in the article. An average player employing the cupping under move and weakening the grip by 1/4 inch will start hitting it right. If Hogan wanted to draw the ball again he just dropped these moves and did the rest, so a much better starting point for most of us..... it just goes to show how solid everything else was in his swing already. Apparently most pros when standing over the ball are trying to smash the cover off it, and a technique like this (if it works) would seem to suit this. Though this hand focus does sound a tad Ernest Jones'sy, and so IMO its worth considering why it doesn't fully chime with Hogan's recommendation on the downswing to lead with the lower body..... this conflicting area might be something to ponder.

Anyway only part of learning can be in an environment like this, the other involves a club in your hand and a driving range.

[tembolo1284]

best to get to it then!

[Hoganstriker]

Well, IMO nobody really knows what Hogan did. Nobody can emulate it. My personal feeling is that he was not rolling the forearms consciously on the ds. I tend towards believing his clubface was pretty square for a good bit down through impact. I don't believe it was wide open late into the ds.
Thats why I say he's not rolling through in a motion similar to what most ams do. Carry on though.

[tembolo1284]

I thought his clubface was pretty open at P6. Most guys have it matching the spine angle...he's a good bit more open than that.

How does it square up so quickly?

[k001k47]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1389355817' post='8434011']
[quote name='k001k47' timestamp='1389326656' post='8432953']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1389183530' post='8421009']
So why is the Hogan forum dead? Nice read even on my approximate thousandeth reading!
[/quote]
I don't know. Post yer swing.
[/quote]

Already have a bunch of times in my swing thread.
[/quote]
I wouldn't know. I'm just messing around.