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Why Has Hogan Forum Gone Dead?


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To me at that point it's not wide open as many think right there, tembolo. Depends if the wrist is cupped or not in the photo near that point IMO.
Nobody knows the truth that's what makes it interesting.
There's not enough info to say for sure. Some face on look almost square to me at p6. If the wrist is getting the bowed look not cupped noway the face is wide open.
Wide open is cupped like on the bs at the top.

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KISS

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[quote name='Hoganstriker' timestamp='1389366329' post='8434741']
Well, IMO nobody really knows what Hogan did. Nobody can emulate it. My personal feeling is that he was not rolling the forearms consciously on the ds. I tend towards believing his clubface was pretty square for a good bit down through impact. I don't believe it was wide open late into the ds.
Thats why I say he's not rolling through in a motion similar to what most ams do. Carry on though.
[/quote]

Agree - no freakinf way he can roll the r arm over the left with a bent right elbow.... Impossible. He is doing something else.

But Tembs has a good question there

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From all the pics I've seen, it's at P6 where things square up. Before that it's wide open, and after that it stays square to the arc until after impact. Looks like he drives it through after P6 rather than rolling it.

He did say that he tries to roll it but can't get it done because of his compensations. If that's true then there would be no way through video or pic analysis to see what he's trying to do.

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[quote name='k001k47' timestamp='1389370757' post='8435185']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1389355817' post='8434011']
[quote name='k001k47' timestamp='1389326656' post='8432953']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1389183530' post='8421009']
So why is the Hogan forum dead? Nice read even on my approximate thousandeth reading!
[/quote]
I don't know. Post yer swing. ;)
[/quote]

Already have a bunch of times in my swing thread.
[/quote]
I wouldn't know. I'm just messing around. :D
[/quote]

all good ;)

Post your swing.

Wishon 919 THI 11* 0.5* Open
Wishon 929 HS 14.5*, 19* 0.5 Open
Wishon 775HS 22*, 25*
Wishon 5, 6 560 MC 7-PW MMC MB
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I know he's old and maybe not as rotary..but this is pretty open. It's left of 'toe to the sky' position.


[attachment=2014797:hoganP6.JPG]

Wishon 919 THI 11* 0.5* Open
Wishon 929 HS 14.5*, 19* 0.5 Open
Wishon 775HS 22*, 25*
Wishon 5, 6 560 MC 7-PW MMC MB
Wishon 54, 59 Micro-Groove HM
All shafts are S2S Stepless Steel Wishon

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wrist is pretty flat to slightly bowed there. And the club is still that open. Dude had a pretty neutral/weakish grip.

Wishon 919 THI 11* 0.5* Open
Wishon 929 HS 14.5*, 19* 0.5 Open
Wishon 775HS 22*, 25*
Wishon 5, 6 560 MC 7-PW MMC MB
Wishon 54, 59 Micro-Groove HM
All shafts are S2S Stepless Steel Wishon

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[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1389374129' post='8435579']
I know he's old and maybe not as rotary..but this is pretty open. It's left of 'toe to the sky' position.


[attachment=2014797:hoganP6.JPG]
[/quote]

Suprised how closed his shoulders still are here. Turn it baby turn it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wishon 919 THI 11* 0.5* Open
Wishon 929 HS 14.5*, 19* 0.5 Open
Wishon 775HS 22*, 25*
Wishon 5, 6 560 MC 7-PW MMC MB
Wishon 54, 59 Micro-Groove HM
All shafts are S2S Stepless Steel Wishon

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Ok I always thought when you take it halfway back with club parallel to ground you wanted the clubhead's leading edge to match the spine angle. The old leadbetter or whoever said it 'toe up' position I thought was now considered open.

Wishon 919 THI 11* 0.5* Open
Wishon 929 HS 14.5*, 19* 0.5 Open
Wishon 775HS 22*, 25*
Wishon 5, 6 560 MC 7-PW MMC MB
Wishon 54, 59 Micro-Groove HM
All shafts are S2S Stepless Steel Wishon

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So is this considered shut by hunter mahan? Since his clubhead's leading edge is tilted right of toe to the sky position?

[attachment=2014807:hunterP6.JPG]

Wishon 919 THI 11* 0.5* Open
Wishon 929 HS 14.5*, 19* 0.5 Open
Wishon 775HS 22*, 25*
Wishon 5, 6 560 MC 7-PW MMC MB
Wishon 54, 59 Micro-Groove HM
All shafts are S2S Stepless Steel Wishon

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[quote name='AlexCzervic' timestamp='1389376096' post='8435783']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1387911312' post='8344373']
Why has this died? People aren't interested in him or the swing anymore?
[/quote]

This is why.

[attachment=2014809:arguing monkeys space.jpg]

AC
[/quote]

That makes me miss HG101, Tapio, the polish biomechanics dude, and a couple of chaps that made this forum fun.

Wishon 919 THI 11* 0.5* Open
Wishon 929 HS 14.5*, 19* 0.5 Open
Wishon 775HS 22*, 25*
Wishon 5, 6 560 MC 7-PW MMC MB
Wishon 54, 59 Micro-Groove HM
All shafts are S2S Stepless Steel Wishon

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Your club cannot stay perp to the arc the whole swing, it has to open somewhat. Hogan in that picture looks pretty orthodox to my eye, espcially considering the angle, he is not yet at p6 and we know he has a bizzaro world weak grip. So you cannot make the assumption that he is "fanning it open" from that picture.

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[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1389373827' post='8435547']
[quote name='k001k47' timestamp='1389370757' post='8435185']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1389355817' post='8434011']
[quote name='k001k47' timestamp='1389326656' post='8432953']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1389183530' post='8421009']
So why is the Hogan forum dead? Nice read even on my approximate thousandeth reading!
[/quote]
I don't know. Post yer swing. ;)
[/quote]

Already have a bunch of times in my swing thread.
[/quote]
I wouldn't know. I'm just messing around. :D
[/quote]

all good ;)

Post your swing.
[/quote]
There's a thread buried somewhere with a bad video and a lone reply from monte.

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Dairic I just don't think he was rolling it. I think it's just simple he squared it up then he fired it.
Or I should say everything he did combined to result in a stable face. If he were trying to roll it it would have rolled. I think it's all theory when it comes to that guy and it seems the more complicated the theory the less likely it's true to me.

See ball hit ball
KISS

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How can he have intentions of rolling it when he's so damn bent with the right arm coming into the ball. Don't get it.

Wishon 919 THI 11* 0.5* Open
Wishon 929 HS 14.5*, 19* 0.5 Open
Wishon 775HS 22*, 25*
Wishon 5, 6 560 MC 7-PW MMC MB
Wishon 54, 59 Micro-Groove HM
All shafts are S2S Stepless Steel Wishon

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Guys I agree that it's all theory, but he's given us some clues. Should we just ignore those clues because it doesn't fit our current theory?

Hogan striker you said "everything he did combined to result in a stable face". What if everything he said in the time life article are a subset of everything he did and it did result in a stable club face? Just because we don't understand it doesn't mean we should be quick to discard it.

We all know what his golf swing looked like, but that doen't mean it's enough information to determine how he was doing it.

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Dairic
I would just say if one gets into this whole he intends to do this but you can't see it deal all bets are off coming from me.
The club lays off face is open coming down it squares pretty early. For me those are facts.
We can only see what the club is doing and some of how his body moved and people can't even agree on that for the most part.
Intentions are a black box like feelings. Feelings and intentions are just that. How many of us can say wow I am really feeling like I am doing x in my swing and then look on video and its not x.
So to me feels are not real useful nor are intentions. It's way too subjective. At least one can look at the club and see what it's doing.
Plus Hoganspeak is like the ultimate in double entendre even being intentionally misleading IMO. You can't take a word he said at face value IMO.

See ball hit ball
KISS

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[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1389385592' post='8436989']
How can he have intentions of rolling it when he's so damn bent with the right arm coming into the ball. Don't get it.
[/quote]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1389385592' post='8436989']
How can he have intentions of rolling it when he's so damn bent with the right arm coming into the ball. Don't get it.
[/quote]

Maybe because he's only trying to roll it with his left hand? The right maintains it's supination very late into the DS and both forearms appear fairly neutral through and past impact. Finish swivel happens as the hands reach mid body.

Take Mr. H's grip and try to turn your left hand CCW against your right hand that is turning CW or at least holding its ground ... the result is a bowed left wrist. The correct grip pressures are essential, particuarly the left hand middle finger and the to middle fingers of the right hand. Opposing forces create the stability.

As SVSV would say, JMHO ... lol.

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[quote name='Hoganstriker' timestamp='1389366329' post='8434741']
Well, IMO nobody really knows what Hogan did. Nobody can emulate it. My personal feeling is that he was not rolling the forearms consciously on the ds. I tend towards believing his clubface was pretty square for a good bit down through impact. I don't believe it was wide open late into the ds.
Thats why I say he's not rolling through in a motion similar to what most ams do. Carry on though.
[/quote]

Well I've been preaching on here for the past 10 days a dead hands pivot driven swing.......... since then I've read the Life Magazine article which talks about something much different in terms of Hogans own results. Either Hogan was a liar, misinformed or too personalized in what he did........ IMO to dismiss it out of hand is like watching a film through your fingers so you don't see the end. I would simply try to confirm or reject it.

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NBD,
I would say Hogan would be the last person to come out publicly and tell the real fine points about how he hit shots etc. In the Life magazine article he mentions that "the best pros" hit by late rolling of the wrists in the ds. He also mentions that causes the ball to land hot like a fighter jet coming down right to left.
The thing that gets me and what proves it to me is looking at the club and where its open and shut in his swing. For sure theres no way he had tight tense hands driving a flw forward either. You can't release as pure as him IMO with tight hands and wrists and his club always releases. You never see him at impact way way delofted like some players do.
My take is he already had the facepretty square before the main lag angle between club and his arms gets undone. He wrote in Five Lessons about it even saying "when the left wrist is in this position it cannot check or interrupt the speed with which the clubhead is travelling."
My take is most players have to roll as uncocking happens to get square. With Hogans grip he found the way to be square and the angle could release at max speed even with a ton of right hand behind it if he wanted that with little to no face roll.
He's doing it as a result of his grip and transition and everything else he did it was all setup to get to that point where he's releasing it pure around the corner without needing to roll it as he does so.
Thats my opinion after going through my Hogan phase a few years ago.
Ultimately what he did was simple in my opinion its just very difficult to impossible to do it that way at high speed like he did. He had to practice a ton all the time it was a very high maintenance type of move.
Maybe people over time realize that being in a Hogan phase relative to their own game is more detrimental to their game than beneficial. For 99% of golfers I think trying to go Hogan will be bad for their game.

See ball hit ball
KISS

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[quote name='Hoganstriker' timestamp='1389468886' post='8442103']
NBD,
[b]I would say Hogan would be the last person to come out publicly and tell the real fine points about how he hit shots etc.[/b] In the Life magazine article he mentions that "the best pros" hit by late rolling of the wrists in the ds. He also mentions that causes the ball to land hot like a fighter jet coming down right to left.
The thing that gets me and what proves it to me is looking at the club and where its open and shut in his swing. For sure theres no way he had tight tense hands driving a flw forward either. You can't release as pure as him IMO with tight hands and wrists and his club always releases. You never see him at impact way way delofted like some players do.
My take is he already had the facepretty square before the main lag angle between club and his arms gets undone. He wrote in Five Lessons about it even saying "when the left wrist is in this position it cannot check or interrupt the speed with which the clubhead is travelling."
My take is most players have to roll as uncocking happens to get square. With Hogans grip he found the way to be square and the angle could release at max speed even with a ton of right hand behind it if he wanted that with little to no face roll.
He's doing it as a result of his grip and transition and everything else he did it was all setup to get to that point where he's releasing it pure around the corner without needing to roll it as he does so.
Thats my opinion after going through my Hogan phase a few years ago.
Ultimately what he did was simple in my opinion its just very difficult to impossible to do it that way at high speed like he did. He had to practice a ton all the time it was a very high maintenance type of move.
Maybe people over time realize that being in a Hogan phase relative to their own game is more detrimental to their game than beneficial. For 99% of golfers I think trying to go Hogan will be bad for their game.
[/quote]

So Hogan was a liar then ;-) (not to mention a very committed one, otherwise known as a .....). One thing to consider was that Hogan wrote this 2 years after the last of his Major victories when he had stopped competing.

I agree that going through a Hogan phase can be very detrimental to a player's game especially if they misinterpret information, at least that was my experience. To be totally honest with you I gave this type of thing a crack on the range and I started hammeriing it and making a very impressive sound with my irons. Bear in mind that I was already striking it pretty well so I was surprised to say the least, especially with the consistency...... I've tried this type of move/intention before but it had poor results, but since then I have worked a lot on things like setup, pivot, pressures, balance, grip, posture etc and certainly implemented the move in a more precise way. Of course one swallow does not make a summer, and I haven't filmed it yet, so I'm not about to go all in and make a fool of myself. Similarly I'm not going to dismiss it because of some previously held opinions. I am not a scratch golfer so I certainly keep an open mind about things

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No man,
thats great in golf we find what works for us and use that. As far as Hogan I would not call him a liar I think that is different from his personality and quite off base. I would say he was a master of using very specific language in a way that could be interpreted in different ways. Reading Five Lessons its apparent to me that he chose words very specifically in some instances(I mean who knows what are really his words and what are not in that book)
and those words could mean different things depending on one's perspective.
I think he was a genius in his own right for certain.
I think if he was still alive and liked you and taught you personally you would find out how good you could be. However he's dead and all we have left are what he said and wrote and old video of him playing. The beauty of it is no one will ever really know so it's great to talk about. I have my opinion at this point on it but I am not saying I could not be convinced otherwise if presented with enough good info.
Everybody has their take on Hogan. Like I said though noway would I call him a liar I would say he was a genius who spoke very carefully about things.
IMO he was not intentionally misleading but at the same time he was not gonna spell stuff out for ya!
He was on a different level than most.

See ball hit ball
KISS

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