American Football or Rugby - who needs to be tougher?

[bscinstnct]

Golden rule in rugby is to take the legs... He can't go bloody anywhere without his legs!

 

.... Otherwise this happens...

 

[media=]

[/media]

 

Sure he can

 

[somaplr]

[quote name='MattTheTaff' timestamp='1389357159' post='8434065']
I'm welsh so naturally I worship at the alter of rugby union.

I don't know about "tougher" bu I will say 100% rugby players are a more complete "ath-o-leet" than american footballers.

But the truth is if the US took rugby seriously then they would destroy every country on the planet... Including AUS, SA and NZ
[/quote]

Americans and rugby worshipping contries will never agree on this - going to have to agree to disagree on the whole athlete thing. Rugby players are a crazy lunatic tough bunch - but if you've ever stood on a professional football field - it's absolutely frightening to see guys who are 275 lbs. with under 4.6 speed run on a field. Rugby is tough because its non-stop action and all players are taking hits constantly - football is tough because essentially guys are running rull speed at each other with massive collision forces. You can look it up...Sports Science did an episode are collisions in football vs ruby. The average football tackle had 3-4x the force of a rugby tackle - but Rugby players may tackle 3-4 times more in a game. So its basically a pick your poison: Would you rahter be in a 70 mph car crash once - or 3-4 30mph crashes? Neither is a whole lot of fun.

[onuzim]

[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1389385294' post='8436943'] [quote name='MattTheTaff' timestamp='1389357159' post='8434065'] I'm welsh so naturally I worship at the alter of rugby union. I don't know about "tougher" bu I will say 100% rugby players are a more complete "ath-o-leet" than american footballers. But the truth is if the US took rugby seriously then they would destroy every country on the planet... Including AUS, SA and NZ [/quote] Americans and rugby worshipping contries will never agree on this - going to have to agree to disagree on the whole athlete thing. Rugby players are a crazy lunatic tough bunch - but if you've ever stood on a professional football field - it's absolutely frightening to see guys who are 275 lbs. with under 4.6 speed run on a field. Rugby is tough because its non-stop action and all players are taking hits constantly - football is tough because essentially guys are running rull speed at each other with massive collision forces. You can look it up...Sports Science did an episode are collisions in football vs ruby. The average football tackle had 3-4x the force of a rugby tackle - but Rugby players may tackle 3-4 times more in a game. So its basically a pick your poison: Would you rahter be in a 70 mph car crash once - or 3-4 30mph crashes? Neither is a whole lot of fun. [/quote]

This makes perfect sense to me.

As a rugby fan I would love for the US to direct greater resources towards rugby and rugby development in schools and colleges. As mentioned before, the US could eventually dominate world rugby.

[xThor]

An argument where neither side is right or wrong. How about an inbetween sport? Australian Rules Football! Go Geelong!

[bscinstnct]

[quote name='onuzim' timestamp='1389387917' post='8437259']
[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1389385294' post='8436943'] [quote name='MattTheTaff' timestamp='1389357159' post='8434065'] I'm welsh so naturally I worship at the alter of rugby union. I don't know about "tougher" bu I will say 100% rugby players are a more complete "ath-o-leet" than american footballers. But the truth is if the US took rugby seriously then they would destroy every country on the planet... Including AUS, SA and NZ [/quote] Americans and rugby worshipping contries will never agree on this - going to have to agree to disagree on the whole athlete thing. Rugby players are a crazy lunatic tough bunch - but if you've ever stood on a professional football field - it's absolutely frightening to see guys who are 275 lbs. with under 4.6 speed run on a field. Rugby is tough because its non-stop action and all players are taking hits constantly - football is tough because essentially guys are running rull speed at each other with massive collision forces. You can look it up...Sports Science did an episode are collisions in football vs ruby. The average football tackle had 3-4x the force of a rugby tackle - but Rugby players may tackle 3-4 times more in a game. So its basically a pick your poison: Would you rahter be in a 70 mph car crash once - or 3-4 30mph crashes? Neither is a whole lot of fun. [/quote]

This makes perfect sense to me.

As a rugby fan I would love for the US to direct greater resources towards rugby and rugby development in schools and colleges. As mentioned before, the US could eventually dominate world rugby.
[/quote]

Never happen.

Rugby is too team oriented. We like to be able to stand out and call attention to ourselves. I am opposed to this stuff as a rule, but Mertron Hanks (#9) cracks me up.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY9-jCEmiHo[/media]



Plus,

Not enough breaks in the action for beer commercials ; )

[somaplr]

[quote name='onuzim' timestamp='1389387917' post='8437259']
[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1389385294' post='8436943'] [quote name='MattTheTaff' timestamp='1389357159' post='8434065'] I'm welsh so naturally I worship at the alter of rugby union. I don't know about "tougher" bu I will say 100% rugby players are a more complete "ath-o-leet" than american footballers. But the truth is if the US took rugby seriously then they would destroy every country on the planet... Including AUS, SA and NZ [/quote] Americans and rugby worshipping contries will never agree on this - going to have to agree to disagree on the whole athlete thing. Rugby players are a crazy lunatic tough bunch - but if you've ever stood on a professional football field - it's absolutely frightening to see guys who are 275 lbs. with under 4.6 speed run on a field. Rugby is tough because its non-stop action and all players are taking hits constantly - football is tough because essentially guys are running rull speed at each other with massive collision forces. You can look it up...Sports Science did an episode are collisions in football vs ruby. The average football tackle had 3-4x the force of a rugby tackle - but Rugby players may tackle 3-4 times more in a game. So its basically a pick your poison: Would you rahter be in a 70 mph car crash once - or 3-4 30mph crashes? Neither is a whole lot of fun. [/quote]

This makes perfect sense to me.

As a rugby fan I would love for the US to direct greater resources towards rugby and rugby development in schools and colleges. As mentioned before, the US could eventually dominate world rugby.
[/quote]

Soccer has been trying to do that for 50 years and it hasn't worked out yet - but yea agreed, never will happen. It's just like soccer - they get our 5th and 6th level atheletes against other countries 1st. It's just not important enough in the states for kids to want to gravitate to it.

[TheGameChanger]

[quote name='xThor' timestamp='1389388580' post='8437349']
An argument where neither side is right or wrong. How about an inbetween sport? Australian Rules Football! Go Geelong!
[/quote]

Those guys are some of the best athletes in the world. They are Skillfull,Atheltic and Tough.

[chickenpotpie]

[quote name='RJRJRJ' timestamp='1389370329' post='8435153']
Its hard to say since they are inherently different sports, but I can tell you with almost certainty that if NFL players didn't wear padding, there would be at least one death per game.
[/quote]

I don't think so...I think the pads make those guys feel invincible. They would take a lot more care with their own bodies if not for the pads. Then you'd have a fair comparison with rugby.

[somaplr]

[quote name='chickenpotpie' timestamp='1389462225' post='8441649']
[quote name='RJRJRJ' timestamp='1389370329' post='8435153']
Its hard to say since they are inherently different sports, but I can tell you with almost certainty that if NFL players didn't wear padding, there would be at least one death per game.
[/quote]

I don't think so...I think the pads make those guys feel invincible. They would take a lot more care with their own bodies if not for the pads. Then you'd have a fair comparison with rugby.
[/quote]

I don't know about one death a game - but people would die from head injuries. In 1905 there were 19 deaths in American football when they started keeping track - prepads. Guys back then were literally half the size they are now and a lot slower. The president do the US actually had to launch a reform program. Even with pads or without, the collisions in the NFL are a lot different and more severe - while rubies are less severe but more numerous. In rugby there are very few full on head to head collisions at full speed like there is in the NFL. The game of rugby is a little more compact and less wide open.

[papichulosteve]

[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1389372891' post='8435429']
[quote name='papichulosteve' timestamp='1389371510' post='8435263']
its a wishy-washy answer, but i'd say it's a tie...well, except for kickers (football)

while yeah, rugby players don't wear pads, they also don't deal with a lot of the open field velocity that wide-receivers face when going over the middle against a linebacker. not saying rugby isn't fast, i've watched plenty of both, but i think that what the one poster said was very true...rugby is a very contained/self-controlled sport where the athletes know proper technique, where as football players are constantly running at 110% trying to go for the knock-out blow.
[/quote]

From pop warner (wonder if they still call it that...it's the kids level football), you learn technique, drill proper form, and practice in live thousands and thousands of times. On Defense, you practice Rip, Swim countless times if you are a pass rusher.

Here are several specific techniques, starts with the bull rush which ironically, so many guys who get to the big colleges may over rely on because they are simply the biggest and strongest and have been able to just push others around.

But notice the arm extension, constant driving of the O lineman back. These techniques are used differently on different O lineman who have different attributes and techniques of their own. And each can be used to set up for another on the next play.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb9p-upzzxo[/media]

While there is a lot of reckless and unorganized looking play in football. It is actually requires a high degree of execution on technique.
[/quote]

never said there wasn't technique or they weren't coached. just said that there tends to be a lot more reckless play and 'knock-out' shots in football. i know it requires skill, just seems more and more unskilled plays are showing up, and even trickling down to the lower levels, ie the upcoming show Friday Night Tykes.

[bscinstnct]

^football is very violent. You learn that as soon as they toss you a ball and you another kid face up one on one and run headlong into each other and bust heads. No other way to learn the game I don't think.

Nothing will change that. Nonetheless, and there were somegreat highlights of text book square up and wrap tackling in todays games and proper form should be the highest order and what is ingrained.

But, when you have guys flying around at full speed with complete armor, they hit full speed and form goes out the window sometimes and other instincts like survival and knocking the guy out take over.

[mac94]

[quote name='onuzim' timestamp='1389365302' post='8434623']
Concussions happen fairly regularly in rugby too, knee injuries are also fairly common as are dislocations.

Some of the hits i've seen in the nfl are frightening BUT i've have seen some crazy ones on the rugby field too....I do believe the intensity of a rugby match is a tad higher than American football.
[/quote]

Uhh, I'll disagree with that.

[Forged4ever]

[quote name='RJRJRJ' timestamp='1389370329' post='8435153']
I can tell you with almost certainty that if NFL players didn't wear padding, there would be at least one death per game.
[/quote]
My thoughts on this statement are similar to Somaplr, in that I don't know about this.

I played DI football, and as scholarship athletes, we were not allowed to play organized sports without consent from basically, our head coach, especially a non-NCAA governed sport such as rugby(it was a "club" sport). Following my senior season, a few fraternity Bros played rugby, and they said to come on out, as they could always use bodies, lol.

I had never played rugby, though I had been to a few of their matches.

I practiced for a few weeks on the C side and we went to Ohio State to play a four school two-day round robbin tourney. I played fullback on the B side. I was 6'2", and where as I played ILB at 242-244 lbs, I had lost about 12-13lbs since the season(this was the spring season, though they also had a fall season) and was about 230 lbs.

Since I was a child(I started playing tackle at the age of 7yo, and though I don't remember much, having been to a few of my nephew's games, I would hardly call it tackle, LMAO. At the snap, everyone stands up, looks at the guy opposite them, then tries to block/tackle, the RB runs into the back of em, and everyone stands there & the pile sorta moves in slo mo a few yards till the ref blows the whistle, lol), I was tought to tackle with my head up, neck bulled back, and lead with my head/helmet, wrapping and driving through the ball carrier.

This was pre-spearing(1979-1984), and let's just say that LB suited my personality just fine, lol. So I of course tackled this way on the rugby field. And as I was tought in football, I didn't just wrap with my arms, as most rugby players did/do, I exploded through the hit and used my arms as weapons, aiming for your shoulders, neck and head.

I didn't think about it, it was instinct. Well, the coach went crazy cuz the B side was playing the A side and he watched me and as I was moving across the field I could see the play/pattern developing and I picked a winger, slowed a little to let the play develop, then went full tilt, cut inside and met him just as the ball touched his hands. I drove though him, catching him with one arm under his chin and putting my face in his chest and sliding up into his chin.

Well, I broke my nose and he was out cold, LMAO.

And the coach, this little five foot nothing fire hydrant,comes runnin across the field screaming, "this is'nt g*ddamn football, you can't tackle like that. You're ginna kill somebidy."

Now our school had a top 20 club program and went to Nationals two of four years that my fraternity Bro played, and he was a forward, and got invited twice to try out for the USA Eagles, making alternate/substitute his second try out, so he could play. He comes running over and said,"Jamie's(the kid I hit) our best back and we have to go to Ohio State in two weeks. Ya can't tackle like that."

And after having to fight with guys who outweighed me by 30-50 pounds just to get to the ball, to get to run around basically unimpeded, hell, I was in heaven, LMAO.

Now I know that this wasn't like South African rugby, or the nations where their players start playing rugby as I and others started playing football,aschildren, thoughI never once, in 17 years of football, had a coach tell me to hold back or hit so as not to hurt someone. Now understand, my hits were legal. I recieved one spearing call in 3 1/2 years as a starting LB. I wasn't dirty.

Yet, all I heard about rugby was, "Oh, they eat their young," "They're animals," "RUGBY, The Few, The Proud, The Insane," etc., LMAO-

I played that season, starting on the C side, and the last half I was moved to A side as a substitute FB.

I hit and got hit.

For me, football was much tougher.

It's hard to explain, however, on a football field, guys wanted to hurt you. I knew that you wanted to hurt me. And I wanted to hurt you.

Not injure.

There's a difference.

And we played most of the Big 10 teams, so I got to see some pretty good collegiate rugby, along with playing in an elite Invitational at Northwestern University in ChiTown, where UCLA, Cal & Stanford played. And unlike the midwestern schools, who might 2-3 football players, half those Pac 10(at the time) schools had half their starting side comprised of ball players.

And if you watched a game, trust me, you could tell who played ball and who just played rugby, ragardless of skill level.

I'm talkin about attitude.

Most of the guys had no fear. We would run as fast as we could, and regardless of how fast that was, at the moment of impact, we would explode THROUGH the hit, not just hit and wrap. It's like we're running a race, same start line, and you're running 40 yds and I've gotta run 45 yds.

All things being equal, who's gonna be running faster at that 40 yard mark?

I'm talkin the as a rule here, not the exception.

A football player, a quality player, runs THROUGH people, not TO people.

Regarding the NFL, you take away face masks, and you'll see such a change in how guys play, that you wouldn't recognize the game in two years.

Would someone die before that change took place?

Maybe, though I doubt it.

It's that species survival/preservation instinct.

Even the idiots, and I played with a few, lol, would change how the played and you wouldn't see all of these high flyin circus hits.

Well, this is just one guys opinion, and granted I only played one season, however, from my experience, the hardest that I got hit on a rugby field didn't come close to the hits that I gave/took on a football field.

Different league.

Thanx for reading

Gettin back to golf-

Have a great season


Fairways & Greens My Friends,
Richard

[rabbit111]

[quote name='Forged4ever1' timestamp='1390626351' post='8527925']
[quote name='RJRJRJ' timestamp='1389370329' post='8435153']
I can tell you with almost certainty that if NFL players didn't wear padding, there would be at least one death per game.
[/quote]
My thoughts on this statement are similar to Somaplr, in that I don't know about this.

I played DI football, and as scholarship athletes, we were not allowed to play organized sports without consent from basically, our head coach, especially a non-NCAA governed sport such as rugby(it was a "club" sport). Following my senior season, a few fraternity Bros played rugby, and they said to come on out, as they could always use bodies, lol.

I had never played rugby, though I had been to a few of their matches.

I practiced for a few weeks on the C side and we went to Ohio State to play a four school two-day round robbin tourney. I played fullback on the B side. I was 6'2", and where as I played ILB at 242-244 lbs, I had lost about 12-13lbs since the season(this was the spring season, though they also had a fall season) and was about 230 lbs.

Since I was a child(I started playing tackle at the age of 7yo, and though I don't remember much, having been to a few of my nephew's games, I would hardly call it tackle, LMAO. At the snap, everyone stands up, looks at the guy opposite them, then tries to block/tackle, the RB runs into the back of em, and everyone stands there & the pile sorta moves in slo mo a few yards till the ref blows the whistle, lol), I was tought to tackle with my head up, neck bulled back, and lead with my head/helmet, wrapping and driving through the ball carrier.

This was pre-spearing(1979-1984), and let's just say that LB suited my personality just fine, lol. So I of course tackled this way on the rugby field. And as I was tought in football, I didn't just wrap with my arms, as most rugby players did/do, I exploded through the hit and used my arms as weapons, aiming for your shoulders, neck and head.

I didn't think about it, it was instinct. Well, the coach went crazy cuz the B side was playing the A side and he watched me and as I was moving across the field I could see the play/pattern developing and I picked a winger, slowed a little to let the play develop, then went full tilt, cut inside and met him just as the ball touched his hands. I drove though him, catching him with one arm under his chin and putting my face in his chest and sliding up into his chin.

Well, I broke my nose and he was out cold, LMAO.

And the coach, this little five foot nothing fire hydrant,comes runnin across the field screaming, "this is'nt g*ddamn football, you can't tackle like that. You're ginna kill somebidy."

Now our school had a top 20 club program and went to Nationals two of four years that my fraternity Bro played, and he was a forward, and got invited twice to try out for the USA Eagles, making alternate/substitute his second try out, so he could play. He comes running over and said,"Jamie's(the kid I hit) our best back and we have to go to Ohio State in two weeks. Ya can't tackle like that."

And after having to fight with guys who outweighed me by 30-50 pounds just to get to the ball, to get to run around basically unimpeded, hell, I was in heaven, LMAO.

Now I know that this wasn't like South African rugby, or the nations where their players start playing rugby as I and others started playing football,aschildren, thoughI never once, in 17 years of football, had a coach tell me to hold back or hit so as not to hurt someone. Now understand, my hits were legal. I recieved one spearing call in 3 1/2 years as a starting LB. I wasn't dirty.

Yet, all I heard about rugby was, "Oh, they eat their young," "They're animals," "RUGBY, The Few, The Proud, The Insane," etc., LMAO-

I played that season, starting on the C side, and the last half I was moved to A side as a substitute FB.

I hit and got hit.

For me, football was much tougher.

It's hard to explain, however, on a football field, guys wanted to hurt you. I knew that you wanted to hurt me. And I wanted to hurt you.

Not injure.

There's a difference.

And we played most of the Big 10 teams, so I got to see some pretty good collegiate rugby, along with playing in an elite Invitational at Northwestern University in ChiTown, where UCLA, Cal & Stanford played. And unlike the midwestern schools, who might 2-3 football players, half those Pac 10(at the time) schools had half their starting side comprised of ball players.

And if you watched a game, trust me, you could tell who played ball and who just played rugby, ragardless of skill level.

I'm talkin about attitude.

Most of the guys had no fear. We would run as fast as we could, and regardless of how fast that was, at the moment of impact, we would explode THROUGH the hit, not just hit and wrap. It's like we're running a race, same start line, and you're running 40 yds and I've gotta run 45 yds.

All things being equal, who's gonna be running faster at that 40 yard mark?

I'm talkin the as a rule here, not the exception.

A football player, a quality player, runs THROUGH people, not TO people.

Regarding the NFL, you take away face masks, and you'll see such a change in how guys play, that you wouldn't recognize the game in two years.

Would someone die before that change took place?

Maybe, though I doubt it.

It's that species survival/preservation instinct.

Even the idiots, and I played with a few, lol, would change how the played and you wouldn't see all of these high flyin circus hits.

Well, this is just one guys opinion, and granted I only played one season, however, from my experience, the hardest that I got hit on a rugby field didn't come close to the hits that I gave/took on a football field.

Different league.

Thanx for reading

Gettin back to golf-

Have a great season


Fairways & Greens My Friends,
Richard

[/quote]

Sorry to reply to this as it adds extra pages!

The major difference between football and rugby in terms if hits are the fact that in football the game stops, where as in rugby you have to think if the next play straight away, do you have support, are you isolated, what field position are you? If you know the play is going to stop then you weigh up the situation of if I hit him hard, will I contain him? If that is yes then straight away you do it. In rugby you have to think, if I hit him hard will I contain him, where are the other players if it is a fast ball, should I hold him up and force a turnover if I have some other forwards around me, is he going down at my knees for a purpose?
The other thing is the physical fitness between the two sports which I think has been mentioned before. No defence/offence team, always on the field till your subbed.
Having played professional rugby, but not football, I can't give judgement but there are great hits in both!!

[RookieBlue7]

You're not going to hit someone full speed with no pads on, with pads on, there's no pulling up. That's why the injuries are much more catastrophic in american football.

[Forged4ever]

[quote name='rabbit111' timestamp='1390742816' post='8535291']
[quote name='Forged4ever1' timestamp='1390626351' post='8527925']
[quote name='RJRJRJ' timestamp='1389370329' post='8435153']
I can tell you with almost certainty that if NFL players didn't wear padding, there would be at least one death per game.
[/quote]
My thoughts on this statement are similar to Somaplr, in that I don't know about this.

I played DI football, and as scholarship athletes, we were not allowed to play organized sports without consent from basically, our head coach, especially a non-NCAA governed sport such as rugby(it was a "club" sport). Following my senior season, a few fraternity Bros played rugby, and they said to come on out, as they could always use bodies, lol.

I had never played rugby, though I had been to a few of their matches.

I practiced for a few weeks on the C side and we went to Ohio State to play a four school two-day round robbin tourney. I played fullback on the B side. I was 6'2", and where as I played ILB at 242-244 lbs, I had lost about 12-13lbs since the season(this was the spring season, though they also had a fall season) and was about 230 lbs.

Since I was a child(I started playing tackle at the age of 7yo, and though I don't remember much, having been to a few of my nephew's games, I would hardly call it tackle, LMAO. At the snap, everyone stands up, looks at the guy opposite them, then tries to block/tackle, the RB runs into the back of em, and everyone stands there & the pile sorta moves in slo mo a few yards till the ref blows the whistle, lol), I was tought to tackle with my head up, neck bulled back, and lead with my head/helmet, wrapping and driving through the ball carrier.

This was pre-spearing(1979-1984), and let's just say that LB suited my personality just fine, lol. So I of course tackled this way on the rugby field. And as I was tought in football, I didn't just wrap with my arms, as most rugby players did/do, I exploded through the hit and used my arms as weapons, aiming for your shoulders, neck and head.

I didn't think about it, it was instinct. Well, the coach went crazy cuz the B side was playing the A side and he watched me and as I was moving across the field I could see the play/pattern developing and I picked a winger, slowed a little to let the play develop, then went full tilt, cut inside and met him just as the ball touched his hands. I drove though him, catching him with one arm under his chin and putting my face in his chest and sliding up into his chin.

Well, I broke my nose and he was out cold, LMAO.

And the coach, this little five foot nothing fire hydrant,comes runnin across the field screaming, "this is'nt g*ddamn football, you can't tackle like that. You're ginna kill somebidy."

Now our school had a top 20 club program and went to Nationals two of four years that my fraternity Bro played, and he was a forward, and got invited twice to try out for the USA Eagles, making alternate/substitute his second try out, so he could play. He comes running over and said,"Jamie's(the kid I hit) our best back and we have to go to Ohio State in two weeks. Ya can't tackle like that."

And after having to fight with guys who outweighed me by 30-50 pounds just to get to the ball, to get to run around basically unimpeded, hell, I was in heaven, LMAO.

Now I know that this wasn't like South African rugby, or the nations where their players start playing rugby as I and others started playing football,aschildren, thoughI never once, in 17 years of football, had a coach tell me to hold back or hit so as not to hurt someone. Now understand, my hits were legal. I recieved one spearing call in 3 1/2 years as a starting LB. I wasn't dirty.

Yet, all I heard about rugby was, "Oh, they eat their young," "They're animals," "RUGBY, The Few, The Proud, The Insane," etc., LMAO-

I played that season, starting on the C side, and the last half I was moved to A side as a substitute FB.

I hit and got hit.

For me, football was much tougher.

It's hard to explain, however, on a football field, guys wanted to hurt you. I knew that you wanted to hurt me. And I wanted to hurt you.

Not injure.

There's a difference.

And we played most of the Big 10 teams, so I got to see some pretty good collegiate rugby, along with playing in an elite Invitational at Northwestern University in ChiTown, where UCLA, Cal & Stanford played. And unlike the midwestern schools, who might 2-3 football players, half those Pac 10(at the time) schools had half their starting side comprised of ball players.

And if you watched a game, trust me, you could tell who played ball and who just played rugby, ragardless of skill level.

I'm talkin about attitude.

Most of the guys had no fear. We would run as fast as we could, and regardless of how fast that was, at the moment of impact, we would explode THROUGH the hit, not just hit and wrap. It's like we're running a race, same start line, and you're running 40 yds and I've gotta run 45 yds.

All things being equal, who's gonna be running faster at that 40 yard mark?

I'm talkin the as a rule here, not the exception.

A football player, a quality player, runs THROUGH people, not TO people.

Regarding the NFL, you take away face masks, and you'll see such a change in how guys play, that you wouldn't recognize the game in two years.

Would someone die before that change took place?

Maybe, though I doubt it.

It's that species survival/preservation instinct.

Even the idiots, and I played with a few, lol, would change how the played and you wouldn't see all of these high flyin circus hits.

Well, this is just one guys opinion, and granted I only played one season, however, from my experience, the hardest that I got hit on a rugby field didn't come close to the hits that I gave/took on a football field.

Different league.

Thanx for reading

Gettin back to golf-

Have a great season


Fairways & Greens My Friends,
Richard

[/quote]

Sorry to reply to this as it adds extra pages!

The major difference between football and rugby in terms if hits are the fact that in football the game stops, where as in rugby you have to think if the next play straight away, do you have support, are you isolated, what field position are you? If you know the play is going to stop then you weigh up the situation of if I hit him hard, will I contain him? If that is yes then straight away you do it. In rugby you have to think, if I hit him hard will I contain him, where are the other players if it is a fast ball, should I hold him up and force a turnover if I have some other forwards around me, is he going down at my knees for a purpose?
The other thing is the physical fitness between the two sports which I think has been mentioned before. No defence/offence team, always on the field till your subbed.
Having played professional rugby, but not football, I can't give judgement but there are great hits in both!!
[/quote]Great point on fitness that I neglected to bring up. Rugby, at least for me, was much more tiresome and the fact that unlike football, where you have at least a 30 second break after ever play, you do not have that luxury in rugby.

The other point is that you are speaking from a professional standpoint, where your ability, skills & performance level put you in the top .25-50% of all who play the sport.

I was speaking from the standpoint of a collegiate club sport. I can only speak from my experiences, which in no way are at a level that you experienced and performed at. From a strategy and game planning stand point, I understood that my lack of understanding or more importantly, execution, is why I could not have an intelligent discussion with someone who played at your level.

I know as a short side, inside linebacker in the 4-4 or 5-2 Monster, and a middle in the 4-3, I had team responsibilities that took precedence over just moving to the ball at the snap. I had opposing players, gaps, and positions that were my primary responsibility, then I moved to the ball.

And my friend that I spoke of who tried out with the Eagles used to get pissed at me because my obsession with the ball and the hit, would sometimes put me out of position. However,'my reasons for taking up rugby were an attempt to replace what I lost when my football career ended.

From the football standpoint, staring on a DI program puts you in the top 98-98.50%, making an NFL roster, the top 99.5%.

I would think that you playing at the professional level in rugby, and rugby be much more widely played world wide, your experiences would put you in an even smaller percentage, compare to all who played organized rugby.

The other thing is that when I played that one semester of rugby, it was, for me, fun, free of expectations and pressures that I felt with football.

I had a great time.

And it struck me that more guys that I met in rugby were playing for the "love of the game," because obviously, they weren't getting paid(scholarships), and seemed to be enjoying themselves more.

Having had 5 knee surgeries and one shoulder reconstruction prior to my college career ending, and knowing that I had no shot at the next level, in addition to playing on a 6-5 team, well, I was literally limping to the finish line, lol.

Comparing the rugby that you played to college club level is like comparing comparing HS football to a DI program.

You were the elite of the elite-

I just happened to have hung around and played with the elite, lol-

Have a great season-

Fairways & Greens My Friend,
Richard

[Jim Clark]

They're both tough. But American football has much larger players who can do much more damage. They need the pads and helmets. I think Rugby players are crazy.

[Forged4ever]

There is one point that I haven't brought up and though I fancy myself as objective, accurate, bla, bla, bla, as Rookie can attest, sometimes my views are scewed by personal thoughts, beliefs and experiences.

This is one such time.

Ya see, when I walked off the football field for the last time, I was lost.

Sure, we had the friendships made over the past 4 1/2 years(I took a red shirt), a few that I keep to this day. And yea, the memories were great.

But for the first time since I could remember, there was no winter workouts to dread & b!tch about. There was no spring ball to endure or summer work outs to go through.

No arriving a month early to school to survive 100°+ days in the sun, lol.

It was over-

Forever-

I didn't accept that real well.

And then yea, the physical part of being able to take out frustrations and emotions amd do things on a field that I could never do on campus or in the "real" world.

So I guess that I looked to rugby to replace and fill that void.

It didn't-

Nor was of fair of me to think that it could.

However, I was young, dumber than I am now, lol, and instead of lookin inside, I looked outside.

It's a great game, played by some of the finest athletes that I've been on ANY field with, and the camaraderie is second to none, and I would say team wise, these guys were much closer team wise than a lot of the football teams that I played on-

And probably best of all, the coach tolerated me running around like an idiot screwin up plays to land the hit, lol, though I did improve a little as the season went on, lol.

It's a great, great game!

Have a good week-

Fairways & Greens My Friends

[rabbit111]

[quote name='Jim Clark' timestamp='1390750085' post='8535891']
They're both tough. But American football has much larger players who can do much more damage. They need the pads and helmets. I think Rugby players are crazy.
[/quote]

Once again the reason they are much larger is because they don't need the fitness that rugby players do.
In the end it's comparing apples to oranges, both have its merits.

[rabbit111]

[quote name='Forged4ever1' timestamp='1390761531' post='8536875']
There is one point that I haven't brought up and though I fancy myself as objective, accurate, bla, bla, bla, as Rookie can attest, sometimes my views are scewed by personal thoughts, beliefs and experiences.

This is one such time.

Ya see, when I walked off the football field for the last time, I was lost.

Sure, we had the friendships made over the past 4 1/2 years(I took a red shirt), a few that I keep to this day. And yea, the memories were great.

But for the first time since I could remember, there was no winter workouts to dread & b!tch about. There was no spring ball to endure or summer work outs to go through.

No arriving a month early to school to survive 100°+ days in the sun, lol.

It was over-

Forever-

I didn't accept that real well.

And then yea, the physical part of being able to take out frustrations and emotions amd do things on a field that I could never do on campus or in the "real" world.

So I guess that I looked to rugby to replace and fill that void.

It didn't-

Nor was of fair of me to think that it could.

However, I was young, dumber than I am now, lol, and instead of lookin inside, I looked outside.

It's a great game, played by some of the finest athletes that I've been on ANY field with, and the camaraderie is second to none, and I would say team wise, these guys were much closer team wise than a lot of the football teams that I played on-

And probably best of all, the coach tolerated me running around like an idiot screwin up plays to land the hit, lol, though I did improve a little as the season went on, lol.

It's a great, great game!

Have a good week-

Fairways & Greens My Friends
[/quote]

I was the same mate, had to give rugby away at an early age in my prime due to 2 knee reconstructions. Doctor said my body could continue but in the end the mind was scared due to not wanting to get hurt again.
Really missed the friendships and getting to take "frustrations" out on others, but in the end that's life and now we have golf, new friendships and a lot of new "frustrations"!

[somaplr]

[quote name='rabbit111' timestamp='1390824910' post='8541883']
[quote name='Jim Clark' timestamp='1390750085' post='8535891']
They're both tough. But American football has much larger players who can do much more damage. They need the pads and helmets. I think Rugby players are crazy.
[/quote]

Once again the reason they are much larger is because they don't need the fitness that rugby players do.
In the end it's comparing apples to oranges, both have its merits.
[/quote]

Define "fitness" - b/c that's highly debatable. Fooball players have PLENTY of fitness. Football is more comparative to the 100 yard dash, while rubgy would be like the 400m run. They both have astounding amounts of fitness, just different kinds. You wouldn't say that one athlete is "fitter" than another.

While I might guess that you used he word "stamina" I'm not sure that really applies either. You don't get fit or in "game shape" from games. You get that way from training camp and practice. I'm not sure why there is even a comparison really, it's like comparing soccer to hockey.

[tocino]

[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1390849461' post='8544213']
[quote name='rabbit111' timestamp='1390824910' post='8541883']
[quote name='Jim Clark' timestamp='1390750085' post='8535891']
They're both tough. But American football has much larger players who can do much more damage. They need the pads and helmets. I think Rugby players are crazy.
[/quote]

Once again the reason they are much larger is because they don't need the fitness that rugby players do.
In the end it's comparing apples to oranges, both have its merits.
[/quote]

Define "fitness" - b/c that's highly debatable. Fooball players have PLENTY of fitness. Football is more comparative to the 100 yard dash, while rubgy would be like the 400m run. They both have astounding amounts of fitness, just different kinds. You wouldn't say that one athlete is "fitter" than another.

While I might guess that you used he word "stamina" I'm not sure that really applies either. You don't get fit or in "game shape" from games. You get that way from training camp and practice. I'm not sure why there is even a comparison really, it's like comparing soccer to hockey.
[/quote]

My samoan buddy said rugby was tougher due to all of the running around he had to do. To be fair he was overweight at the time but he was trying out for a local club team. He's from the island and played pick-up rugby games growing up until high school where he started playing football (I think he was made the practice squad for the university of washington as a walk-on). In my opinion they both look tough in their own ways. I've played neither... I wasn't really interested in rugby, I tried out for football my freshman year but all it took was one time to get the breath knocked out of me during summer practice to know I should stick with basketball.

[MattTheTaff]

6 nations championship starts today so here's the plan:

Drive to Wales
Pub at 2pm,
Drunk by 7pm
Clothes-less by 9pm
Bed by 10pm.
Hangover tomorrow
Dicey 170mile drive home tomorrow afternoon.
Bath with scented candles
Super Bowl

Can't wait.

[onuzim]

[quote name='MattTheTaff' timestamp='1391260319' post='8577134']
6 nations championship starts today so here's the plan:

Drive to Wales
Pub at 2pm,
Drunk by 7pm
Clothes-less by 9pm
Bed by 10pm.
Hangover tomorrow
Dicey 170mile drive home tomorrow afternoon.
Bath with scented candles
Super Bowl

Can't wait.
[/quote]

Quiet weekend I see? Enjoy the rugga, should be an easy win for the Welsh!

[MattTheTaff]

[quote name='onuzim' timestamp='1391260666' post='8577148']
[quote name='MattTheTaff' timestamp='1391260319' post='8577134']
6 nations championship starts today so here's the plan:

Drive to Wales
Pub at 2pm,
Drunk by 7pm
Clothes-less by 9pm
Bed by 10pm.
Hangover tomorrow
Dicey 170mile drive home tomorrow afternoon.
Bath with scented candles
Super Bowl

Can't wait.
[/quote]

Quiet weekend I see? Enjoy the rugga, should be an easy win for the Welsh!
[/quote]

Hopefully, need a good start for the momentum. Going for 3 titles in a row

[deadsolid...shank]

[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1390849461' post='8544213']
[quote name='rabbit111' timestamp='1390824910' post='8541883']
[quote name='Jim Clark' timestamp='1390750085' post='8535891']
They're both tough. But American football has much larger players who can do much more damage. They need the pads and helmets. I think Rugby players are crazy.
[/quote]

Once again the reason they are much larger is because they don't need the fitness that rugby players do.
In the end it's comparing apples to oranges, both have its merits.
[/quote]

Define "fitness" - b/c that's highly debatable. Fooball players have PLENTY of fitness. Football is more comparative to the 100 yard dash, while rubgy would be like the 400m run. They both have astounding amounts of fitness, just different kinds. You wouldn't say that one athlete is "fitter" than another.

While I might guess that you used he word "stamina" I'm not sure that really applies either. You don't get fit or in "game shape" from games. You get that way from training camp and practice. I'm not sure why there is even a comparison really, it's like comparing soccer to hockey.
[/quote]

I think this pretty much hits it on the head in regards to fitness. Football is a more explosive sport. Much like Forgedforever said, "he exploded through the ball(carrier)", you built up to that big hit, put everything into a potential "knockout" blow, then return to the huddle and a 30 second break. Rugby, you have to control yourself through the tackle so you can jump right back up and continue playing. Can't expend everything on each tackle.

I have to say I hadn't seen much rugby and came across a game or match (what is it called?) the other day. Consider me impressed, those are some big boys out there. Personally, I think they're nuts.

[onuzim]

[quote name='deadsolid...shank' timestamp='1391262168' post='8577236']
[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1390849461' post='8544213']
[quote name='rabbit111' timestamp='1390824910' post='8541883']
[quote name='Jim Clark' timestamp='1390750085' post='8535891']
They're both tough. But American football has much larger players who can do much more damage. They need the pads and helmets. I think Rugby players are crazy.
[/quote]

Once again the reason they are much larger is because they don't need the fitness that rugby players do.
In the end it's comparing apples to oranges, both have its merits.
[/quote]

Define "fitness" - b/c that's highly debatable. Fooball players have PLENTY of fitness. Football is more comparative to the 100 yard dash, while rubgy would be like the 400m run. They both have astounding amounts of fitness, just different kinds. You wouldn't say that one athlete is "fitter" than another.

While I might guess that you used he word "stamina" I'm not sure that really applies either. You don't get fit or in "game shape" from games. You get that way from training camp and practice. I'm not sure why there is even a comparison really, it's like comparing soccer to hockey.
[/quote]

I think this pretty much hits it on the head in regards to fitness. Football is a more explosive sport. Much like Forgedforever said, "he exploded through the ball(carrier)", you built up to that big hit, put everything into a potential "knockout" blow, then return to the huddle and a 30 second break. Rugby, you have to control yourself through the tackle so you can jump right back up and continue playing. Can't expend everything on each tackle.

I have to say I hadn't seen much rugby and came across a game or match (what is it called?) the other day. Consider me impressed, those are some big boys out there. Personally, I think they're nuts.
[/quote]

Do you remember which teams were playing in the game you watched? Try to catch a game between the Springboks(South Africa) and the All Blacks(New Zealand) - the intensity at which the game is played will blow you away! It is the greatest rivalry in world rugby.

[deadsolid...shank]

[quote name='onuzim' timestamp='1391273048' post='8577966']
[quote name='deadsolid...shank' timestamp='1391262168' post='8577236']
[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1390849461' post='8544213']
[quote name='rabbit111' timestamp='1390824910' post='8541883']
[quote name='Jim Clark' timestamp='1390750085' post='8535891']
They're both tough. But American football has much larger players who can do much more damage. They need the pads and helmets. I think Rugby players are crazy.
[/quote]

Once again the reason they are much larger is because they don't need the fitness that rugby players do.
In the end it's comparing apples to oranges, both have its merits.
[/quote]

Define "fitness" - b/c that's highly debatable. Fooball players have PLENTY of fitness. Football is more comparative to the 100 yard dash, while rubgy would be like the 400m run. They both have astounding amounts of fitness, just different kinds. You wouldn't say that one athlete is "fitter" than another.

While I might guess that you used he word "stamina" I'm not sure that really applies either. You don't get fit or in "game shape" from games. You get that way from training camp and practice. I'm not sure why there is even a comparison really, it's like comparing soccer to hockey.
[/quote]

I think this pretty much hits it on the head in regards to fitness. Football is a more explosive sport. Much like Forgedforever said, "he exploded through the ball(carrier)", you built up to that big hit, put everything into a potential "knockout" blow, then return to the huddle and a 30 second break. Rugby, you have to control yourself through the tackle so you can jump right back up and continue playing. Can't expend everything on each tackle.

I have to say I hadn't seen much rugby and came across a game or match (what is it called?) the other day. Consider me impressed, those are some big boys out there. Personally, I think they're nuts.
[/quote]

Do you remember which teams were playing in the game you watched? Try to catch a game between the Springboks(South Africa) and the All Blacks(New Zealand) - the intensity at which the game is played will blow you away! It is the greatest rivalry in world rugby.
[/quote]

If I remember correctly(and with my fading memory I probably don't) it was England and France. And I don't even know if the game was live or a replay. All I know for sure is that I was impressed.

[bscinstnct]

As far as fitness goes, misunderstanding how much "wind" you need to play football for 4qs

From the time these kids start, developing very high levels of endurance is ingrained.

At the END of a couple of hours of practice, THEN the countless running begins.

Line up on the sidelines along the whole field then on the whistle run 50 yards across, turn back and run 50 yards back, then turn back and run 50 yards back, then turn back and run 50 yards back. Back and forth 4 times without stopping is one rep. Run, not jog or if coaches think you are "dogging" it, they might either single you out to crab 100 yards on your hands and feet or just keep adding extra reps of the drill above.

You do a bunch of those to end your fine day.

This is school age stuff, in college, still lots of running though it's more targeted my position. And in the pros, I assume more so.

But the notion that football players just lift and don't have wind is innacurate.

[MattTheTaff]

Anyways... I made it to the end of the game and kept my pants on!

Now back at my best mates house watching Led Zep at knebworth (bscinstinct will apreciate this) and discussing who we'd have in our all time band