Got help?

[S.Coolidge]

Sorry about looking like a slob out the back in my flip flops, but i was just hanging out back drinking beer/swinging my iron and I got the old lady to take some quick vids. They are real time and slow motion from DTL and Front. DTL im just hitting a plastic ball and yeah im hitting a wad of paper towel on the front view; since said old lady wont let me hit plastic at glass windows. These are with a 7 iron and my basic self taught swing - i dont swing any harder unless its a driver/wood. my 7 iron normally goes about 140-150 meters at the DTL tempo (153-164 yards)

 

I know my head moves but i cant help it my shoulders always push at my chin.

 

note: the film makers angle was a tad bit off to the side both times - shes refuses to refilm due to feeding a newborn. cheers

 

any tips an/or fixes i need to make. i tend to push my irons a lot.

 

[media=]

[/media]

[S.Coolidge]

so i was watching a mark crossfield lesson on shoulder turn because of my chin always being caught and creating some sway. i learned to go down with my left shoulder when in reality i guess i was rotating up. idk. ill post some new vids with this and the grip fix someone else showed me from another post i had about address. cheers. any other tips???

[S.Coolidge]

b

[Dudemanbrother]

If I were you I'd try spending 20 min a day trying to make your shoulder blades touch each other. Your shoulders are pretty slumped over which rotates your hands roughly 90 degrees. You are getting stuck when your arms get too far across your body. Good posture will allow you to make a nice full shoulder turn, correctly, and keep the club in front of your body. Stand nice and tall with your shoulder blades back and notice how your hands sit naturally, then allow your shoulders to slump forward and notice the difference. Your backswing will feel much shorter but you should feel a ton of power just waiting to release toward the target.

[S.Coolidge]

[quote name='Dudemanbrother' timestamp='1380660833' post='7939041']
If I were you I'd try spending 20 min a day trying to make your shoulder blades touch each other. Your shoulders are pretty slumped over which rotates your hands roughly 90 degrees. You are getting stuck when your arms get too far across your body. Good posture will allow you to make a nice full shoulder turn, correctly, and keep the club in front of your body. Stand nice and tall with your shoulder blades back and notice how your hands sit naturally, then allow your shoulders to slump forward and notice the difference. Your backswing will feel much shorter but you should feel a ton of power just waiting to release toward the target.
[/quote]

im working on the posture, i agree my shoulders are hanging. i took arm hang and apparently added the shoulders too. my problem is standing too tall i have issues with my shoulders getting in the way alot more. they are fairly wide and thick, then add a thick chest, yeah problems.

today i had to lean way forward to promote better posture and clearer shoulder turn. or maybe im doing it wrong. do u have any materials i can look at as a reference. ill post another vid in a few days with my new spine angle. thanks for your input. Correcting my posture is causing whatever old compensations i was making to get in the way now, this needs to be wrinkled out too... so heres to another few weeks of ironing out another swing.

my shoulder turn now at times looks like a stack and tilt turn at my right foot. is this bad?

[S.Coolidge]

[quote name='Dudemanbrother' timestamp='1380660833' post='7939041']
If I were you I'd try spending 20 min a day trying to make your shoulder blades touch each other. Your shoulders are pretty slumped over which rotates your hands roughly 90 degrees. You are getting stuck when your arms get too far across your body. Good posture will allow you to make a nice full shoulder turn, correctly, and keep the club in front of your body. Stand nice and tall with your shoulder blades back and notice how your hands sit naturally, then allow your shoulders to slump forward and notice the difference. Your backswing will feel much shorter but you should feel a ton of power just waiting to release toward the target.
[/quote]

thanks again for noticing the posture dudemanbrother - it really has helped. i noticed i was even doing it wrong after trying to fix it. but now i can be more upright and by just bringing my shoulders back to a correct posture helps my turn soo much. it really showed on the course today along with another change i made. only 2 pushes i can think of. now i just need to get this swing to memory so im not thinking about it at all. you da man

[S.Coolidge]

A week later.. i notice a few different things. however, i wonder if anyone else has any advice this week.
on my take back im starting outside on purpose ala trevino
[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-wgS7Hrbmg[/media]

[S.Coolidge]

[quote name='S.Coolidge' timestamp='1381383574' post='7979693']
[url][media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-wgS7Hrbmg[/media][u/rl]
[/quote]

[Dudemanbrother]

Now I notice an abrupt pick up of the club right at the takeaway. With a lack of great flexibility, your arm still comes across your chest which is flattening out the swing a bit at the top. The right elbow is flying away from your body. The right arm should only fold up because the momentum of the swing forces it to. You will noticed most players at the top look like they are holding a waiters tray with the right arm. Try doing that with a flying elbow and the food would be everywhere.
Try allowing a free hip turn. This restricted hip turn stuff can add power for the right body type/ flexibility. Let your pelvis, torso, and shoulder girdle move back as one solid unit. They will rotate over your hip socket. This is the most natural way to take the club back. You will be able to make a stress free shoulder turn with the club in front of your body. You might notice your left foot wanting to peel off the ground in the back swing a bit, this is fine. Just make sure you allow it to plant firmly before coming back down.
Some say you can let your arm fall down while you allow your body to get out of the way, which is great as it keeps the arms in front of you the entire swing. Some talk about starting with the hips. I can do both with the same results. Whatever you're most comfortable with. I'd say to try both. Just remember that you don't apply the "hit impulse". When done correctly it feels like you're swinging the club 60mph but the club head will easily generate 100mph+(driver).
I love doing a perpetual motion drill before a round. You pick a target line in the grass and let the momentum of the club move forward a few feet and back a few feet. Allow momentum to bring the club higher and higher. Think a kid on a swing. You can't accelerate if you're jerking around, forcing the speed. It has to build naturally. Soon you will be making full swings in a continuous motion, all you have to do is get your body out of the way from your arms hitting it.

[S.Coolidge]

thanks dudeman, ill update a swing in a few days when i get the time. ive been on a forced 2 week golf break due to school, child and wildfires in oz. i just finally got to the range today.

my problem at the range today was a fade. i was hitting 7i - sw straight, but driver - 6i (minus the 3h) with a fade i could control but i couldnt straighten it out. i seemed to be topping balls too, i normally dont top many. 4i - 6i wasnt flushed contact either - the distance wasnt there. 3 h was decent and fairly straight, it normally is. i was placing my driver pretty good with the fade, but i dont know what i was doing to make that fade - if i could create that swing on purpose i would play that fade. i had to open up and aim left to play the fade like it would be played, but when squared, i was still hitting a straight fade.

i noticed ball placement issues, it may be leading to some errors.

now either my arms arent in front of me at times causing me to get stuck or my hips fire faster then my upper body or like you said i get too flat? im not sure what the problem is?

I am trying to bring the club up sooner, right after my hands past my right leg?
Also,im trying to really focus on weight transfer. it seems like my weight gets stuck on my left leg on the backswing at times.

when you do the perpetual motion drillare you rotating your body any or just swinging in front of you?

[S.Coolidge]

So this is from today.

i guess im still coming across my body but this feels natural. i am trying to come up as soon as my hands pass my right leg. i went with a more free hip turn compared to the resisted turn. As you can see i went with more of a one piece turn bringing my left heel off the ground. It didnt feel like my shoulder was pushing my chin but it was. I tried to make my upper body angle steeper in the mirror after the fact and its more free. Ill try to add that when i get some swing time.

when you say to keep it in front what do you actually mean. keep the hands where?

I notice my club head at the top is right of the target, is this bad?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoO0wcq1lrw&feature=youtu.be

[Dudemanbrother]

In front as in, at the top of your backswing, if you drove your right elbow into your body, it should be hitting somewhere below the right pec/rib cage. If the arms drag across your body(getting stuck) your elbow would miss your body entirely.
Your arms should stop moving when your body stops. When they continue on is when you flatten and cross the plane. With most clubs, the shaft never reaches parallel at the top of the backswing. I used to fight this over swinging too. Pushes and snap hooks all the time. I had weakened my grip to compensate. When I finally figured out how to keep the club in front my rhythm and contact improved incredibly but everything was way right. Strengthened my grip and it's been awesome ever since.
I would say work on the perpetual motion in the grass just trying to clip dandelions and weeds. You should hopefully notice your body clearing both ways so your arms won't crash into your body. For me it's like the club becomes weightless at the top and I just let it fall down and momentum swings me back toward the target. Try to memorize whatever feels you can when clipping grass/weeds with the club head. Also, If you have an old club try tossing it in the back yard. If you crash into your body at any point it will fly left. Learn to throw it straight to the target. The swing is the exact same movement, you just don't let go of the club.

[S.Coolidge]

[quote name='Dudemanbrother' timestamp='1383017260' post='8072101']
In front as in, at the top of your backswing, if you drove your right elbow into your body, it should be hitting somewhere below the right pec/rib cage. If the arms drag across your body(getting stuck) your elbow would miss your body entirely.
Your arms should stop moving when your body stops. When they continue on is when you flatten and cross the plane. With most clubs, the shaft never reaches parallel at the top of the backswing. I used to fight this over swinging too. Pushes and snap hooks all the time. I had weakened my grip to compensate. When I finally figured out how to keep the club in front my rhythm and contact improved incredibly but everything was way right. Strengthened my grip and it's been awesome ever since.
I would say work on the perpetual motion in the grass just trying to clip dandelions and weeds. You should hopefully notice your body clearing both ways so your arms won't crash into your body. For me it's like the club becomes weightless at the top and I just let it fall down and momentum swings me back toward the target. Try to memorize whatever feels you can when clipping grass/weeds with the club head. Also, If you have an old club try tossing it in the back yard. If you crash into your body at any point it will fly left. Learn to throw it straight to the target. The swing is the exact same movement, you just don't let go of the club.
[/quote]

yeah, ive always said my right arm disconnects alot and i can feel me coming across late before hitting the ball. I cleary understand what you mean now. The days i can actually feel my right elbow and control how far out it goes are the days i can control a fade fairly well with that swing. Better to fix it though.

Ill put up a video in 3-5 days, giving myself time to do some drills before i really start hitting anything and i can actually do swings with more real speed - ive been getting lazy with my tinkering speed. I just have too many things to think about while swinging, the day i can stop thinking sooo much will be nice. i was working on a release drill but perhaps ill cut that out to seriously focus on the elbow first. im still working on the one piece free hip take away and ill see what i can do about the overswing at the top. But i think the camera angle hides the fact my shoulders go past 90 some and it seems like my arms are still dragging back. my left shoulder is actually pointing at 1-2 oclock and i kind of start my down swing while my arms are going back a tad - idk. i dont know much about golf.

Im also working on weight transfer drills to eliminate a slight sway with my upperbody during the transition to the downswing but perhaps getting my elbow to work right might fix this one naturally

ill probably do a range video at some point with multiple clubs. but let me iron out these drills. thanks for your help bro.

[S.Coolidge]

Well I went to the range today with the goal to film the whole session, however I didnt charge my camera and only made it through 3 clubs - SW,9I, & 7I It was pretty disappointing considering the lack of time Ive had the past month and will continue to have. havent been on the course in a month ( i do have a membership too) and two driving range sessions. With my wedding coming up in nearly two weeks and that week long commitment - IDK. so, i didnt get to do all my clubs or FO

I hit okay today. so - so and it still seems im in a tinker speed funk. Im at about 70% and it seems if i go faster i really throw my weight around.
I put in a 7i push or soft fade shot - it slowly went right about 10yds from the aim point.

I figured something out today near the end of my session though. If I make my left hand grip in a stronger position it helps cut out the push/fade. I notice with my 3H which i normally hit flush and straight that my left hand was strong as opposed to weak with every other club. i kept my right hand neutral though and was having better contact and shape to shots with the Long irons for sure. I noticed it killed some height to my short irons but added more distance even at a lazy swing pace. whatever its doing.

The camera angle may be a tad off. Also, i was messing around with my lower body being a tad bit open too

I feel like my left arm disconnects too. IDK what it should be doing

edit: after looking at the video, i guess i may be coming in too steep huh? i guess i need to figure out how to shallow if this is the case.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrkyXm13SrU&feature=youtu.be[/media]

[Dudemanbrother]

I'm glad you noticed a lower longer ball flight with your "lazy swing". That is letting go of the hit impulse. When you really want to hit the ball the muscles tense up and you typically lose lag instantly. If you focus on the backswing, ball etc. you will lose sight of target and bad things usually happen.
If you pick your target and keep it as your only focus through out the swing, it seems like the body knows what to do instinctively. You will release out at the target in a smooth rhythmic motion. Give it a shot on your next range session. Take smooth slow feeling swings straight to the target while keeping the ball flight and landing in your mind the whole time.
Another great drill to lose the hit impulse is to make full swings with say an 8 iron, but only hit it 100 yds. Don't try to manipulate the club, just think about a smooth swing to target and let your central nervous system take over. Once you start nailing your target, you'll figure out naturally how to increase your pivot speed to increase distance while maintaining that same feel.
When I was really struggling with my swing, I was using some ap1's with light shafts. Very hard to get feedback with them. I found some hogan apex blades on cl for $100. The apex 4 shafts were much stiffer and heavier than I was used to. My swing changed in a matter of days just trying to hit a decent shot. I learned so much about my own faults and realized I was swinging way too hard, coming down too soon, over swinging, and my arms were running into my body. When I finally slowed down just to make solid contact I blasted the ball farther than my ap1's with jacked up lofts and lengths. I stopped thinking so much about mechanics and only paid attention to tempo. Amazingly all the mechanics I was seeking came naturally when I stopped looking for them. Some YouTube golf instruction vid I saw once said you have to give up control to gain control. It never clicked until then. I hope something similar can happen for you.
Congrats on the wedding btw!

[S.Coolidge]

[quote name='Dudemanbrother' timestamp='1383616202' post='8102682']
I'm glad you noticed a lower longer ball flight with your "lazy swing". That is letting go of the hit impulse. When you really want to hit the ball the muscles tense up and you typically lose lag instantly. If you focus on the backswing, ball etc. you will lose sight of target and bad things usually happen.
If you pick your target and keep it as your only focus through out the swing, it seems like the body knows what to do instinctively. You will release out at the target in a smooth rhythmic motion. Give it a shot on your next range session. Take smooth slow feeling swings straight to the target while keeping the ball flight and landing in your mind the whole time.
Another great drill to lose the hit impulse is to make full swings with say an 8 iron, but only hit it 100 yds. Don't try to manipulate the club, just think about a smooth swing to target and let your central nervous system take over. Once you start nailing your target, you'll figure out naturally how to increase your pivot speed to increase distance while maintaining that same feel.
When I was really struggling with my swing, I was using some ap1's with light shafts. Very hard to get feedback with them. I found some hogan apex blades on cl for $100. The apex 4 shafts were much stiffer and heavier than I was used to. My swing changed in a matter of days just trying to hit a decent shot. I learned so much about my own faults and realized I was swinging way too hard, coming down too soon, over swinging, and my arms were running into my body. When I finally slowed down just to make solid contact I blasted the ball farther than my ap1's with jacked up lofts and lengths. I stopped thinking so much about mechanics and only paid attention to tempo. Amazingly all the mechanics I was seeking came naturally when I stopped looking for them. Some YouTube golf instruction vid I saw once said you have to give up control to gain control. It never clicked until then. I hope something similar can happen for you.
Congrats on the wedding btw!
[/quote]

I was at the range yesterday and noticed i pitched different than i swung normally. Its like i kept my left arm straighter and did a pendulum swing. what it seems like it felt likewas my left shoulder is going down more than normal and it seems like my left arm goes more vertical in the backswing. my arms are completely free on the way down. is this what you meant by keep your arm free? i was under the impression that you need to suck the right elbow in and go through the swing. this revelation was at the end of my session so i didnt have anymore balls to really get into but i will the next time i go back. it was raining so i didnt film.

i'll film next time whenever that is. wedding week starts tomorrow and i wont have my equipment or clubs since the car is full. i may get to play a round or two with hired clubs while im down there - idk. thanks for the congrats.

i did practice trying to hit shorter distances with longer clubs and my result was just a shorter backswing to accomplish this. it was easier than taking a full backswing and controlling the speed. my left hand in the strong postion kept the pushes at a min, so i'll keep that as is. the only con to that is its added distance to all my irons, so i dont know how far full swings are going all the time. if i had more time to play or practice that would help. i can and would want to practice all day everyday if i only had the time - life huh.

my backyard sessions are on hold too. ive been talked into aka commanded into sowing the back with some grass seeds since somebody has been leaving divots all over the yard. so if anything has changed in the next video in the next week or two itll be some grass

i wish i had some new clubs but i just play with some crappy macgregor irons and a mix of drivers/woods and hybrid. ill upgrade on day though once i fix my swing. i thought about getting some old school blades that are really cheap, just to tinker with. would you recommend that or should i just iron out my swing then get a new set of cavity backs.

also about the last vid, i notice that it seems that i slow my swing the longer the club gets. i wonder why? thinking to much about an impending push?

[Dudemanbrother]

You can get a set of cheap blades or check the thrift store/used rack for a 6 or 5 iron blade. It should really be more of a practice tool. I wouldn't say get blades and just start playin them, unless of course they felt perfect. It's more about the feedback and weight you get with a blade, the turf interaction requires a very solid swing to get good results. You can learn a lot with them and really find your swing IMO.
You are on the right track with your arms maintaining space and freedom. When the right arm folds it should not be forced. In fact, mine feels straight throughout the whole swing. It clearly isn't, but it feels extended out in front. When I start the club back I maintain the triangle from address, it feels kind of like the face would come to the top completely closed still, with both arms straight out. The reality is, the forearms will rotate naturally and the right arm bends. Everything looks as it should, but it feels very different than it looks.
The thing about the 100 yd shots with different clubs, it is very important to do this with full swings. This is how you learn the correct sequence. The swing is slow enough to really understand what you're doing (correctly and incorrectly). I bet every pro on tour can hit every club in their bag 100 yds with a full swing without thought.
I hear you on the back yard too! Mine is destroyed. Hell, I cut the grass with an old 5 iron blade. I just do the perpetual motion and take a step forward at the top each way. It's a fun way to mow the lawn, or what's left of it!
As for long irons feeling slower, I wouldn't worry about it if the distance is there. The club being longer takes just a bit longer to fall down from the top so that could be what you're feeling. I know I get impatient with my driver once in a while for that very reason. You must wait for the weight to initiate the downswing. Otherwise you force it, lose lag, and hit garbage shots all over the course.