What I see in Mr. Hogans swing...

[chris_golf]

[quote name='1lovegolf24' timestamp='1301621231' post='3107663']
Chris, aside from all that you know and have observed from viewing Hogan's motion, what do you believe is actually what Hogan viewed in is swing motion?
[/quote]

"There is no reason to not birdie every hole on a golfcours!"
That says it all.
He always looked to finetune every mini detail to perfect his swing. He was not practicing to
maintain his swing - he practiced because it is the most satisfying feeling to hit true piercing golfshots.

I wish I could look from the inside out of Mr. Hogan, sorry I can´t.

Chris

[chris_golf]

[quote name='dap' timestamp='1301617484' post='3107446']
[quote name='chris_golf' timestamp='1301601059' post='3106575']
[quote name='markponi' timestamp='1301595844' post='3106272'] [b]Sergio's laid off move is 100% different than Hogans[/b]. Bertrand is wrong. The Harley move is also wrong. Laying off the club by moving your hands, wrists and arms is not what Hogan did. Agree with Chris_golf 100% in that it's a reaction. It's a reaction because the flex in the shaft is huge during transition which gives it the laid off look. [/quote] I am not quite sure about this - he comes from a higher plane ( and has to drop down ), but I believe if he would have another backswing plane it would look similar... <object height="390" width="640"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/PTxfRmxNofI?fs=1&hl=de_DE&rel=0"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/PTxfRmxNofI?fs=1&hl=de_DE&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="390" width="640"></object> Older video - OMG how I had the hands sooo hight!!! Chris @tembolo : The push fade needs a rest, 1st priority my sport-stick-setup with the hipmovement...
[/quote]
I agree with markponi that Hogan and Sergio laid the club off in a different way.

Chris,your swing is more like Sergio's than Hogan.You both lay the club off before you reach the top of the backswing.Hogan did this move on the transition.He was not laid off at the top.The dynamics are totally different.Not saying there is anything wrong with how you or Sergio does it but it's not Hogan.
[/quote]

Maybe, but I believe laying off is a reaction what the pivot is doing - look at my two vids in the hipmotion thread, in
the first swing I make a big pause to have a geometrically correct swing - I hate it, I loose all the flex in the shaft.
In the second vid I do what I do - believe me if I never saw my swing on video I would swear there is no downloop...
Because of this I think all laying off players have a pivot driven swing in common, nothing more and nothing less.
Sure I would never look like Mr. Hogan, but there are sometimes similarities... And to what blueprint I had to look,
there are not many out there who downloop the club naturally to use as my blueprint!
I think I do it, because I learned golf thru Five Lessons from Ben Hogan! So my swing is my interpretation of his book!
I wonder why not thousands who read his book look likewise.
[attachment=756678:ChrisAndBenHogan.jpg]
I wish I had his right arm extensor action and his right elbow location! Perfect...


Chris

[1lovegolf24]

[quote name='chris_golf' timestamp='1301676162' post='3109712']
[quote name='1lovegolf24' timestamp='1301621231' post='3107663']
Chris, aside from all that you know and have observed from viewing Hogan's motion, what do you believe is actually what Hogan viewed in is swing motion?
[/quote]

"There is no reason to not birdie every hole on a golfcours!"
That says it all.
He always looked to finetune every mini detail to perfect his swing. He was not practicing to
maintain his swing - he practiced because it is the most satisfying feeling to hit true piercing golfshots.

I wish I could look from the inside out of Mr. Hogan, sorry I can´t.

Chris
[/quote].

Hi chris-golf, I agree with your assesment of Hogans reson for practicing. I guess i should have added, in my previous question, what did Hogan feel. I believe when athletes go into maticulus details about there swing, I find it helpful if they give examples as to what it feels like or maybe compare it to a similar motion an average person woul releate to.

That is where I study Hogan from, the outside in and then inside out. It helps me if I try to see the intent and effort that cause the effects we see on the outside. Sometimes I can substitute or formulate my own motions that I am familiar with.

Anyway, I wasjust wandering if you have tried to view his swing in this way.

[drewspin]

Chris,

Try working what you call the "downloop" [b]using the lower body[/b].

Start with the Hogan Tilt at set up. (seen in the face on views)

Then think about how you'd need to move the LOWER BODY to shift planes like hogan describes in 5 Lessons.

Try to keep the FEELING of arms/hands being ON a single plane back and through.

I think you are VERY close to the Hogan pattern. A few tweaks and you'll be inside.

[chris_golf]

[quote name='drewspin' timestamp='1301680484' post='3109938'] Chris, Try working what you call the "downloop" [b]using the lower body[/b]. Start with the Hogan Tilt at set up. (seen in the face on views) Then think about how you'd need to move the LOWER BODY to shift planes like hogan describes in 5 Lessons. Try to keep the FEELING of arms/hands being ON a single plane back and through. I think you are VERY close to the Hogan pattern. A few tweaks and you'll be inside. [/quote] Thank you drewspin, I think as well we need a spine movement thread! - I miss big time Mr. Hogans "tower of pisa" move with his spine thru the end of his backswing (I think this move did the trick with his handpath shift!!!) <object height="390" width="480"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0nCuPJjoeWc?fs=1&hl=de_DE&rel=0"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0nCuPJjoeWc?fs=1&hl=de_DE&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="390" width="480"></object> Chris

[certifiedbodyman]

[quote name='dream_stryker' timestamp='1301604036' post='3106746']
[quote name='chris_golf' timestamp='1301601059' post='3106575']
[quote name='markponi' timestamp='1301595844' post='3106272'] [b]Sergio's laid off move is 100% different than Hogans[/b]. Bertrand is wrong. The Harley move is also wrong. Laying off the club by moving your hands, wrists and arms is not what Hogan did. Agree with Chris_golf 100% in that it's a reaction. It's a reaction because the flex in the shaft is huge during transition which gives it the laid off look. [/quote] I am not quite sure about this - he comes from a higher plane ( and has to drop down ), but I believe if he would have another backswing plane it would look similar... <object height="390" width="640"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/PTxfRmxNofI?fs=1&hl=de_DE&rel=0"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/PTxfRmxNofI?fs=1&hl=de_DE&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="390" width="640"></object> Older video - OMG how I had the hands sooo hight!!! Chris @tembolo : The push fade needs a rest, 1st priority my sport-stick-setup with the hipmovement...
[/quote]

The only thing Sergio and Mr Hogan have in common is both are swinging a golf club. The reason Sergio has the higher plane is he's making the club behave differently than Mr Hogan and needs to start higher. That kid that won in the Transitions also downc0cks the club but he's delivering the club between the elbow and turned shoulder plane...again, completely different swings that seem alike.

The reason people struggle with the layoff and downc0ck is because they can't shift to the lower plane without c0cking the trail wrist. If you can crack that nut....you're on your way to developing a playable "hoganesque" swing.
[/quote]

...also, it looks to me that in Sergio's case, the laiying off that he does is actually a result of what's called external rotation of the rotator cuff...much like a pitcher throwing the pitch to the catcher...his elbow looks higher in relation to his shoulder than does Mr Hogans but the right wrist and hand is farther back due to the external rotation at the shoulder...the upper arm is still not nearly as close to his right side of the torso as Hogan's...Sertgio is a really good golfer but the motion he makes isn't that close to Hogan IMO...

[tembolo1284]

Chris...stop wind surfing and come back to us with more videos!

What happened to all the old links? I want to check them out again.

How's your push fade these days?

[tembolo1284]

I love this thread.

[lonestar48]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1395058211' post='8888419']
I love this thread.
[/quote]
Yeah, me too! Glad I'm getting around to sift through these old threads. Every time I do I have to go out and try stuff out!

Very interesting theories but I haven't heard of anybody (with Hogan's build and very similar swing) trying any of this with clubs that are bent 4-6 degrees flat, have you?
Just curious...