Thoughts on ball flight and shot making ... Persimmon only.

[fluffy265]

Hi All,

I'd like to hear about everyone's thoughts on Persimmon wood setup's, your school of thought and experiences with club selection, ball flights and shot making.

 

These days thanks to work related hand injuries I'm forced to play with a much stronger grip than I'm traditionally accustomed too. Now the only real down fall of that has been a lack of consistency off the tee with my Driver.

Normally my train of thought off tee is a driver into a head wind and the 3 wood down wind.

When I'm driving the ball well ( which is less & less these days ). I get a low to mid trajectory and a heap of roll. My miss is generally a high push that will draw back slightly.

 

My 3 wood is the work horse in my bag. From the tee I consistently play a light fade with a huge amount of carry and little run. This easily carries further than my driver. I only entertain a draw if I'm playing well and can feel it. The head is relatively large in my opinion for a 3 wood, while it excels off the tee it is no slouch off the fairway as long as the lie is right ( this club loves slightly perched lies) though it has had a good workout off hard pan in these past few months.

 

About a year back I put my my 1 iron away as I was constantly loosing a fight with the wind from the high launching ball flight I kept seeing.

So out came the 4 wood. Now when I learned to play golf as youngster I played with a 4 wood as the longest club in my bag. Ahh that familiarity.... I'd been reunited with a long lost love. This club knows the shot before I do, often proving me wrong and mapping out a better trajectory than I can foresee. It's never leaving the bag again. From the fairway I normally see a low to mid ball flight. This club favours a fade but playing either side can be entertained. My miss with this club is a slightly pulled low ball which never seems to get me in any trouble. This club plays well off the tee but rarely is needed to do so.

 

Now thanks to my driver woes I've just started experimenting with a 2 wood for the first time. I don't take any of my Persimmon woods to the range so all testing is done on the course. Yesterday all I managed to consistently produce off the tee were high draws ( higher than my 3 wood ) with average but playable distance. Nothing that would be of any use into the wind. Now over the next couple of weeks or so I will be tweaking the weight getting it closer to where I feel it needs to be and in turn expect to be hitting it better. But at this early stage I'm seeing this a alternative to the the 3 wood not quite the driver alternate I was hoping for. Now given that I'm new to 2 woods, what sort of ball flight and distance should I really be expecting?? I guess I'm asking, what is a 2 wood supposed to do ??

 

Now It would be rude not to include a pic or two of my old love....

 

 

 

 

J

[kaboboom]

Fluff,

 

Given what we all know for a set of woods, lower number means less loft and longer shaft, so your question seems to be...if I hit my 3 Wood better than my driver (a great problem to have since your precision off the face is improved by the shorter shaft), what should I expect from my 2 Wood? And the standard answer would be lower ball flight (loft), greater distance (shaft length), less precision (shaft length). So the first thing that comes to mind for me is: what happens when you choke down on your driver to 3 Wood length (and ball position)?

 

Another suggestion is to work down from your 3 Wood in half club increments.

[HoldenCornfield]

First thing, have you measured the lofts? I use a mechanical protractor. Since most vintage woods (except Pings) have a fairly flat bottom it makes it pretty straight forward to measure (for the face, measure to the centerpoint of the club if it has a lot of roll):

 

 

edit - I believe the protractor slipped in this pic as I was holding the club and tool with one hand while holding my camera with the other. The 3 wood here appears to measure only 13* (90*-77*) when it actually should be 16*

 

I've found 3 woods to measure variously from 13* to 17*, with most around 16*. 2 woods I've checked have been anywhere from 11* to 14*, most around 13*. I have had sets where the 3 wood was the same loft as the 4 wood, or the 4 was the same as the 5, or the 2 was the same as the driver. So, my point is there can be a lot of variance in actual loft.

 

Secondly, there can also be a lot of variance in ball flight because of the weight used in either the butt of the head or under the sole. For instance, I've found that MacGregors with aluminum inserts, which are lighter, have more weight under the sole plate to make up for it and this tends to raise the ball flight noticeably. Also, I have a 9* Spalding driver with a huge lead plug under the sole that launches like some 2 woods.

 

Other clubs have weight ports drilled into the back (or butt?) of the club which places the weight higher and promotes a more boring trajectory typically.

 

For my non-aluminum insert drivers I find that they tend to be more of a specialty club; I hit low running fades with them mostly so their use depends on the hole shape and weather conditions. With these drivers I'll carry the 2 wood as my primary tee club...except for this one set where the 3 wood is 13*. For my Mac drivers with aluminum face or aluminum firing pin insert I don't need a 2 wood because the 10-11* driver launches just like it. :)

 

For fairway wood shots I, too, usually prefer a 4 wood. They launch higher and so usually go further than 3 woods do for me off the deck...except for this one set where the 3 wood has a aluminum firing pin insert and a shallow head shape. :)

 

Some days I'll carry a 5 wood (about 22*) for 190-200 yard shots when I'm not feeling confidence in the 2 iron...except for this one set where the 4 wood is 19* but has a huge lead slug under the sole and launches like a 5 wood... and this one other set where the 4 wood head is small and shallow and also launches like a 5 wood. :)

 

There is so much variance that I think its hard to come up with any hard and fast rules, especially when you're talking about clubs made over 4 or 5 decades by inumerable manufacturers.

 

This is why I vigorously recommend all vintage golfers own 10-12 sets of woods, minimally, to experiment with. LOL

[HoldenCornfield]

Well, I just went to the warehouse and checked my stock. I'm afraid I can only account for 9 full wood sets with pieces of a few more. One Wilson, one Hogan, One Tad Moore hickory, two Spalding, and four Mac sets -- a total of which I consider woefully inadequate. Looks like I have some shopping to do if I want to practice what I preach!

[Juice__25]

What HC is trying to say in shorter terms is: you just haven't found a Driver or wood set, you can completely get along with, keep searching.

[TimV]

Fluffy: I wonder if because of the hand issues you would benefit from larger or arthritic style grips? you can always try some tennis racket wrap to build up what you have and see how you like it before diving into a regripping project. Other than that I've found I personally do better with a 2 and 4 wood in persimmons. Length and loft make a difference for each of us one way or another.

Enjoy experimenting!

[fluffy265]

Thanks for the replies guys!

 

Kaboom, as far as the driver is concerned that was my first thought, I've experimented extensively with different driver lengths, weights and ball positioning. With Shorter length shafts I saw a marginal improvement, still inconsistent though. And yes the 2 wood is playing a half inch longer longer than my 3 wood.

 

HC, True you can never have too many wood sets. Finding "the one" can take some time, especially these days. However this 2 wood is the only one I've found so far ( actually i have a laminated Mac Tourney with a split neck floating around here somewhere... )

My drivers are generally 10°, the rest measure at : 2W 13°, 3W 15°, 4W 17°.

With my woods I do tend to prefer brass back weighted or back weight ports.

This 2 wood head is smaller than my 3 wood and is back weighted, it also sits quite closed at address.

I know of a nice 2 wood very close to me but I still haven't figured out how to con talk the owner out of it! ( are you reading this Steve??)

With my drivers I do see quite a difference in flight with different inserts and weight locations. But at the end of day I love that low boring flight into the wind.

 

Juice, dont worry I haven't given up the search just yet. I still have other driver builds in the mix ( have a Penna TPX that needs testing too) but thought I should at least entertain the idea of a 2 wood. These are early days with this club and I do expect to be hitting this 2 wood much better in the following weeks once I get it weighted correctly and become more familiar with it.

 

Tim, I hear ya, but my hand problems ( left wrist actually ) push me towards skinnier grips these days. I split the cartilage in my left wrist a couple of years back. These days this affects my grip pressure in my left hand. I like a very firm grip in my last two fingers. I can no longer maintain that pressure with the fat grips that I used to love.

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers J

[Juice__25]

Woah tough injury fluff. So wait, you don't need bigger grips, but have you tried reverse taper?

 

This may truly be your answer. Thin grip at butt end so you can grip with last two fingers of left hand, but big grip at shaft end so you can get better feel and control with the right hand.

[kaboboom]

Fluff,

 

I feel like I am coughing a hairball (golf heresy), but I'm experimenting with a grip modification for a reason that seems similar to your quest...to be able to really thump a persimmon driver off the tee. I've felt I was smothering my drives, which I attribute to Hogan's swing wreckers, the index and thumb of my right hand taking too much control of my club heading into impact. So I've moved right my thumb to cover (and compress) my ring and middle fingers, and allowed my index finger to move down the shaft to crook it, making my right hand longer on the club, and increasing its grip pressure. I still have to be careful to let my left hand guide the takeaway, but I can now hit harder (late) with my right without turning the club over...it gives me an increased feeling of skipping stone. I'm using it now with all my clubs (including the putter!) as part of an interlocking grip. I was using the Vardon grip previously. Seeing no loss of distance with a more centered swing...it helps me hold back to get the stone level, if you will, instead of lunging forward. I guess a pic would help.

[fluffy265]

K' boom, funny how things work out. Your last post got me "reviewing" my grip...

The 2 wood still isn't really working out of the tee, but plays great off the turf, I got really frustrated last time out with this club so it will be a while before I go testing with it again.

Now after tweaking my grip my old drivers are finally working properly again!

Just had a fun afternoon yesterday with this beauty in post #5 http://www.golfwrx.c...ew-acquistions/ . It's been some time since I've picked up that club.

I get the feeling it will be spending a lot more time in the bag.

 

J

[birly-shirly]

Sorry, this is entirely off-topic but Kaboboom's post calls up still the funniest thing I've seen in my working life.

 

A colleague had taken time off to ride his bike from one end of Britain to the other - Lands End to John O'Groats. And he was blogging as he went. And one day, his entry read "...after 10 miles riding over the cobbles on the way into Bath, my ring and middle finger were quite numb..."

 

Usage note: at least in the UK, "ring" is a very common abbreviated form of "ringpiece" which in turn is an informal, but common, anatomical term.

 

Hence the immortal interview of boxer Chris Eubank, "Were you as surprised as we all were when he came from behind and licked you in the ring?"

 

Carry on...

[jonnygrouville]

Nice!

 

Was the "Carry on" intentional after a post so loaded with innuendo?