My swing - keeps21

[keeps21]

I can't maintain spine angle in the backswing

Here's some videos from a couple of nights ago. I'm hitting a choked down 7 iron (choked down because the ball is an inch or two above my feet on the launchpad)

Down the line

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDX5maAJIFM


Front on
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckr7KeXjmr8

Apologies for the poor quality...

I now know why I'm hitting a lot of fat / thin shots - I'm standing way up at the top of my back swing.

So my faults are:

• Taking the club away far too much to the inside
• Picking the club up too early.
• Taking it away with the arms rather than in one piece.
• Hands too deep half way back.
• Standing up / coming out of my stance at the top of the back swing
• Club across the line at the top.
• Left arm collapses slightly
• Losing spine angle

Any advice is greatly appreciated. Any tips on maintaining spine angle on the backswing? Is it down to bad posture - not being able to turn under my chin?

[russc1597187869]

Need more hip tilt at address.then just rotate around your tilted spine
Eliminate lateral movement at the hips and head
Start the club straight back for the first 15 inches

[keeps21]

[color=#181818][size=2]I've been working on a steeper shoulder turn and maintaining my spine angle / inclination to the ground in the backswing. I look a little better in this video compared to the earlier videos.[/size][/color]

[color=#181818][size=2] [/size][/color]

[color=#181818][size=2]However, I'm losing spine angle / inclination on the downswing.[/size][/color]

[color=#181818][size=2] [/size][/color]

[color=#181818][size=2]I'm planning on sorting the backswing out before fixing the problems with my downswing - but any advice on the downswing wouldn't go amiss.[/size][/color]

[color=#181818][size=2] [/size][/color]

[color=#181818][size=2]Here's today's video.[/size][/color]

[color=#181818][size=2][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01AqUrCcq8A[/media]
[/size][/color]

[sydor_05]

Try keeping that left arm a lot straighter, especially at address. (Actually both arms should be straight at address. Your right will obviously bend on the back swing but keeping both arms straight before initiating the backswing is the starting point). I know you noted that it breaks down after your back swing, but you aren't starting with it straight to begin with which will definitely contribute to your fat shots. If you address the ball with a bent left arm, when you get back to the ball with a straight left arm on contact your club head will end up below the ball (in the ground). Some people feel that a straight left arm isn't always required, but the straighter it is the more control you will have over your swing.

[keeps21]

[quote name='sydor_05' timestamp='1334430260' post='4721452']
Try keeping that left arm a lot straighter, especially at address. (Actually both arms should be straight at address. Your right will obviously bend on the back swing but keeping both arms straight before initiating the backswing is the starting point). I know you noted that it breaks down after your back swing, but you aren't starting with it straight to begin with which will definitely contribute to your fat shots. If you address the ball with a bent left arm, when you get back to the ball with a straight left arm on contact your club head will end up below the ball (in the ground). Some people feel that a straight left arm isn't always required, but the straighter it is the more control you will have over your swing.
[/quote]

Thanks. I'll keep that in mind.

I think I feel a little tense if I have straight arms at address but I'm sure with some practise it's something I'll get used to.

[keeps21]

I know the video quality is poor so It's difficult to really see but does my grip look a little strong?

Thanks in advance.

[ChipDriver]

My opinion: your issues are caused because of your setup....you're not engaging your legs...particularly your right leg. On the backswing you are not bracing your right leg..so it causes a lot of the problems you are experiencing. The weight is going to the outside of your foot and you lose torque...and power. Also it causes your club to go inside and you have to engage your arms to get it where you want.


1) An easy fix: spread your feet about 2" more and squat (lower your butt) and bend your knees a little more about 2" more....don't just bend from the waist. You may have to flatten your swing slightly. You might feel too low, but I bet on video it will look terrific. But your feet and legs should feel really alive and part of your swing. I'll bet they don't right now in your present swing?

2) To understand the feel - put a golfball under your shoe on the outside right edge OR stand on the grip end of an old club and "wedge it" under the entire outside right edge of your shoe....On the backswing it will feel like your right side is "locked" and you're turning into/against it, and at the top you should feel torque up and along the inside of your right leg and lower body (don't worry your hips will still move a little bit and that's ok)....but then just bump the weight over the top of your left leg and unwind from the ground up. Whammmoooo.

[keeps21]

[quote name='ChipDriver' timestamp='1334488850' post='4724644']
My opinion: your issues are caused because of your setup....you're not engaging your legs...particularly your right leg. On the backswing you are not bracing your right leg..so it causes a lot of the problems you are experiencing. The weight is going to the outside of your foot and you lose torque...and power. Also it causes your club to go inside and you have to engage your arms to get it where you want.


1) An easy fix: spread your feet about 2" more and squat (lower your butt) and bend your knees a little more about 2" more....don't just bend from the waist. You may have to flatten your swing slightly. You might feel too low, but I bet on video it will look terrific. But your feet and legs should feel really alive and part of your swing. I'll bet they don't right now in your present swing?

2) To understand the feel - put a golfball under your shoe on the outside right edge OR stand on the grip end of an old club and "wedge it" under the entire outside right edge of your shoe....On the backswing it will feel like your right side is "locked" and you're turning into/against it, and at the top you should feel torque in your right leg and lower body (don't worry your hips will still move a little bit and that's ok)....but then just bump the weight over the top of your left leg and unwind from the ground up. Whammmoooo.
[/quote]

Thanks for that. It certainly makes sense.

I guess my problem with squatting is I used to be an ice hockey netminder. Playing hockey my stance was very low/squatted and i guess i'm trying not to get back into that position (as that is way too low).

The ball under the right foot drill is similar to the 'power wedge' drill/feeling right?

[kellygreen]

[quote name='keeps21' timestamp='1334343671' post='4715936']
[left][color="#181818"][size="2"]Here's some videos from a couple of nights ago. I'm hitting a choked down 7 iron (choked down because the ball is an inch or two above my feet on the launchpad)[/size][/color]
[color="#181818"] [/color]
[color="#181818"][size="2"]Down the line[/size][/color]

[color="#181818"] [/color][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDX5maAJIFM[/media]


[color="#181818"][size="2"]Front on[/size][/color]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckr7KeXjmr8[/media]
[color="#181818"] [/color]
[color="#181818"] [/color][color="#181818"][size="2"]Apologies for the poor quality...[/size][/color]

[color="#181818"] [/color][color="#181818"][size="2"]I now know why I'm hitting a lot of fat / thin shots - I'm standing way up at the top of my back swing.[/size][/color]

[color="#181818"] [/color][color="#181818"][size="2"]So my faults are:[/size][/color]
[list][*]Taking the club away far too much to the inside[*]Picking the club up too early.[*]Taking it away with the arms rather than in one piece.[*]Hands too deep half way back.[*]Standing up / coming out of my stance at the top of the back swing[*]Club across the line at the top.[*]Left arm collapses slightly[*]Losing spine angle[/list][color="#181818"][size="2"]Any advice is greatly appreciated. Any tips on maintaining spine angle on the backswing? Is it down to bad posture - not being able to turn under my chin?[/size][/color]
[/left]
[/quote]

As far as you inability to maintain your spine angle, and your left arm collapse, you have the same fault that I fight in my own swing.

KEEP YOUR CHIN UP!!!

You are burying your chin into your chest at address, so there is no room for your left shoulder to turn underneath your chin on the back swing. So you come out of your spine angle in an effort to try to create that room..and your left arm bends because the momentum of the club causes it to run away from you trunk when you left shoulder hits your chin. I fight the same fault in my own swing because I wear glasses, and I instinctively want to look at the golf ball through the center of the lenses. So I consciously have to fight the habit.

The feel you want to cultivate is that you are almost "looking down your nose" at the golf ball at address. This will keep your chin up enough to leave room for your shoulders to turn freely. More objective measures:

1. If you ran a yard stick down the center of your back at address, the back of your head should touch the ruler.

2. Make a "pistol" out of your thumb and index finger. Then stick your thumb into the sternal notch (the cleft at the top of your breastbone). Your chin should be high enough for you only the tip of your straightened index finger to rest underneath the tip of your chin.

or..

3. Stand at attention like a soldier. Then hinge forward from the hips as if you were going to bow, but keep that straight alignement between your head and chest like you did standing at attention.

[ChipDriver]

[quote name='keeps21' timestamp='1334489047' post='4724650']
[quote name='ChipDriver' timestamp='1334488850' post='4724644']
My opinion: your issues are caused because of your setup....you're not engaging your legs...particularly your right leg. On the backswing you are not bracing your right leg..so it causes a lot of the problems you are experiencing. The weight is going to the outside of your foot and you lose torque...and power. Also it causes your club to go inside and you have to engage your arms to get it where you want.


1) An easy fix: spread your feet about 2" more and squat (lower your butt) and bend your knees a little more about 2" more....don't just bend from the waist. You may have to flatten your swing slightly. You might feel too low, but I bet on video it will look terrific. But your feet and legs should feel really alive and part of your swing. I'll bet they don't right now in your present swing?

2) To understand the feel - put a golfball under your shoe on the outside right edge OR stand on the grip end of an old club and "wedge it" under the entire outside right edge of your shoe....On the backswing it will feel like your right side is "locked" and you're turning into/against it, and at the top you should feel torque in your right leg and lower body (don't worry your hips will still move a little bit and that's ok)....but then just bump the weight over the top of your left leg and unwind from the ground up. Whammmoooo.
[/quote]

Thanks for that. It certainly makes sense.

I guess my problem with squatting is I used to be an ice hockey netminder. Playing hockey my stance was very low/squatted and i guess i'm trying not to get back into that position (as that is way too low).

The ball under the right foot drill is similar to the 'power wedge' drill/feeling right?


[/quote]

Yes. But I think you'll understand it better with your hockey netminder/goalie analogy. Take your golf stance....then "prepare to make a GLOVE SAVE on a penalty shot (so you don't go down too low). But you only need a little bit more "squat" - and it will help a bunch.



I played tennis and baseball - to me I prepared to "return a fast serve" or "field a ground ball".....you're ready to move quickly in any direction.

In order to do that - you have to engage the legs, right? And in your/my case - it means squatting a tiny bit more.

[keeps21]

[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1334490145' post='4724678']
As far as you inability to maintain your spine angle, and your left arm collapse, you have the same fault that I fight in my own swing.

KEEP YOUR CHIN UP!!!

You are burying your chin into your chest at address, so there is no room for your left shoulder to turn underneath your chin on the back swing. So you come out of your spine angle in an effort to try to create that room..and your left arm bends because the momentum of the club causes it to run away from you trunk when you left shoulder hits your chin. I fight the same fault in my own swing because I wear glasses, and I instinctively want to look at the golf ball through the center of the lenses. So I consciously have to fight the habit.

The feel you want to cultivate is that you are almost "looking down your nose" at the golf ball at address. This will keep your chin up enough to leave room for your shoulders to turn freely. More objective measures:

1. If you ran a yard stick down the center of your back at address, the back of your head should touch the ruler.

2. Make a "pistol" out of your thumb and index finger. Then stick your thumb into the sternal notch (the cleft at the top of your breastbone). Your chin should be high enough for you only the tip of your straightened index finger to rest underneath the tip of your chin.

or..

3. Stand at attention like a soldier. Then hinge forward from the hips as if you were going to bow, but keep that straight alignement between your head and chest like you did standing at attention.
[/quote]

I'd thought my problem was turning my shoulders on too flat of a plane - but in actual fact they're turning perpendicular to my spine angle - which I believe is correct. What you say about lifting my chin up makes a lot of sense!


[quote name='ChipDriver' timestamp='1334490186' post='4724680']
Yes. But I think you'll understand it better with your hockey netminder/goalie analogy. Take your golf stance....then "prepare to make a GLOVE SAVE on a penalty shot (so you don't go down too low). But you only need a little bit more "squat" - and it will help a bunch.


I played tennis and baseball - to me I prepared to "return a fast serve" or "field a ground ball".....you're ready to move quickly in any direction.

In order to do that - you have to engage the legs, right? And in your/my case - it means squatting a tiny bit more.

[/quote]

Thanks, I'd thought I was keeping the flex in my right leg (the pants in the most recent video do a good job of hiding this). I'll definitely work on my posture and bracing my right leg though as I'm sure it will only help.

[ChipDriver]

[quote name='keeps21' timestamp='1334492054' post='4724750']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1334490145' post='4724678']
As far as you inability to maintain your spine angle, and your left arm collapse, you have the same fault that I fight in my own swing.

KEEP YOUR CHIN UP!!!

You are burying your chin into your chest at address, so there is no room for your left shoulder to turn underneath your chin on the back swing. So you come out of your spine angle in an effort to try to create that room..and your left arm bends because the momentum of the club causes it to run away from you trunk when you left shoulder hits your chin. I fight the same fault in my own swing because I wear glasses, and I instinctively want to look at the golf ball through the center of the lenses. So I consciously have to fight the habit.

The feel you want to cultivate is that you are almost "looking down your nose" at the golf ball at address. This will keep your chin up enough to leave room for your shoulders to turn freely. More objective measures:

1. If you ran a yard stick down the center of your back at address, the back of your head should touch the ruler.

2. Make a "pistol" out of your thumb and index finger. Then stick your thumb into the sternal notch (the cleft at the top of your breastbone). Your chin should be high enough for you only the tip of your straightened index finger to rest underneath the tip of your chin.

or..

3. Stand at attention like a soldier. Then hinge forward from the hips as if you were going to bow, but keep that straight alignement between your head and chest like you did standing at attention.
[/quote]

I'd thought my problem was turning my shoulders on too flat of a plane - but in actual fact they're turning perpendicular to my spine angle - which I believe is correct. What you say about lifting my chin up makes a lot of sense!


[quote name='ChipDriver' timestamp='1334490186' post='4724680']
Yes. But I think you'll understand it better with your hockey netminder/goalie analogy. Take your golf stance....then "prepare to make a GLOVE SAVE on a penalty shot (so you don't go down too low). But you only need a little bit more "squat" - and it will help a bunch.


I played tennis and baseball - to me I prepared to "return a fast serve" or "field a ground ball".....you're ready to move quickly in any direction.

In order to do that - you have to engage the legs, right? And in your/my case - it means squatting a tiny bit more.

[/quote]

Thanks, I'd thought I was keeping the flex in my right leg (the pants in the most recent video do a good job of hiding this). I'll definitely work on my posture and bracing my right leg though as I'm sure it will only help.
[/quote]

A little secret = if you resist a little bit more with your right side, you probably will add more yardage to your shots.

Good luck.

[keeps21]

[quote name='ChipDriver' timestamp='1334492699' post='4724776']
A little secret = if you resist a little bit more with your right side, you probably will add more yardage to your shots.

Good luck.
[/quote]

Thanks again. I'll keep that in mind.

I'm happy losing a little distance (and I don't really hit it long anyway) if it means I get a consistent swing and the ball flies straight.

[ChipDriver]

[quote name='keeps21' timestamp='1334492817' post='4724782']
[quote name='ChipDriver' timestamp='1334492699' post='4724776']
A little secret = if you resist a little bit more with your right side, you probably will add more yardage to your shots.

Good luck.
[/quote]

Thanks again. I'll keep that in mind.

I'm happy losing a little distance (and I don't really hit it long anyway) if it means I get a consistent swing and the ball flies straight.
[/quote]

No no....you will GAIN yardage.... b/c the resistance and torque are transferred back to the clubhead, instead of being lost when your leg straightens and loses the torque.


Regarding your past swing thought - don't think about retaining the bend in your knee, as much as you "retain the squat".

You should GAIN/ADD/Increase your distance. Just by dropping your fanny another inch or two.....er..."2 or 3 centimeters lower".

[keeps21]

[quote name='ChipDriver' timestamp='1334493255' post='4724794']

No no....you will GAIN yardage.... b/c the resistance and torque are transferred back to the clubhead, instead of being lost when your leg straightens and loses the torque.


Regarding your past swing thought - don't think about retaining the bend in your knee, as much as you "retain the squat".

You should GAIN/ADD/Increase your distance. Just by dropping your fanny another inch or two.....er..."2 or 3 centimeters lower".
[/quote]



Sorry,. I understood what you were saying about gaining distance, I just meant that I'd be happy to lose distance if it meant being more consistent / straighter.

[keeps21]

Another swing from tonight... much much happier with this one! Still getting across the line at the top and need to lift my chin a little. And a little flat halfway back.

But I'm pretty happy with the plane and shoulder turn.

Any comments?

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezrXpcRR_i4[/media]


[color=#181818]Would you say I'm more 1 plane than 2 plane or vice versa? [/color][color=#181818] [/color][color=#181818]I think it'd help me to stick to whichever i'm closest too and work on that.[/color]

[kellygreen]

[quote name='keeps21' timestamp='1334596911' post='4731880']
Another swing from tonight... much much happier with this one! Still getting across the line at the top and need to lift my chin a little. And a little flat halfway back.

But I'm pretty happy with the plane and shoulder turn.

Any comments?

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezrXpcRR_i4[/media]


[color="#181818"]Would you say I'm more 1 plane than 2 plane or vice versa? [/color][color="#181818"][/color][color="#181818"]I think it'd help me to stick to whichever i'm closest too and work on that.[/color]
[/quote]

1. As you mentioned, you still have your chin down a bit.....but its much better than before. Your shoulders now have room to turn more freely.

2. You plane, swingpath and shoulder turn (from this view) look pretty reasonable.

3. Crossing the line at the top is not necessarily a fault. As long as you get there with an appropriate shoulder turn (rather than just lifting your arms), your left arm still remains reasonably straight, and your arms still working in sync with your body turn....

...crossing the line is fine. The longer swing is source of additional power....but it does come at the price of requiring better coordination and timing in order to manage that additional clubhead speed and make solid contact.

[keeps21]

At the range yesterday I was hitting a 10-15 yard push to the right, or straight with a little fade with my irons.

Can anyone diagnose why using my latest swing videos?

I know I'm lifting up a little at the top of my back swing and taking away the club too far to the inside and not keeping my left arm straight again.

Thanks.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbbW5xHjdAs[/media]


[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLxUC3Q_L6o[/media]

[kellygreen]

[quote name='keeps21' timestamp='1335116138' post='4768220']
At the range yesterday I was hitting a 10-15 yard push to the right, or straight with a little fade with my irons.

Can anyone diagnose why using my latest swing videos?

I know I'm lifting up a little at the top of my back swing and taking away the club too far to the inside and not keeping my left arm straight again.

Thanks.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbbW5xHjdAs[/media]


[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLxUC3Q_L6o[/media]
[/quote]

Still burying your chin in your chest, and forcing yourself out of your posture to create room for your shoulders to turn.

[russc1597187869]

[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1335123654' post='4768728']
[quote name='keeps21' timestamp='1335116138' post='4768220']
At the range yesterday I was hitting a 10-15 yard push to the right, or straight with a little fade with my irons.

Can anyone diagnose why using my latest swing videos?

I know I'm lifting up a little at the top of my back swing and taking away the club too far to the inside and not keeping my left arm straight again.

Thanks.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbbW5xHjdAs[/media]


[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLxUC3Q_L6o[/media]
[/quote]

Still burying your chin in your chest, and forcing yourself out of your posture to create room for your shoulders to turn.
[/quote]

Lateral and upward movement going back with an iron is a "death move".It alters your spine angle ,reduces your coil,changes your low point and forces your eyes to recalculate the distance to the ball..In your swing this happens mainly in the last portion of your backswing ,mainly due to the position of your chin.Try these drills
First raising your head .In your swing it is caused primarily by tucking your chin as Kellygreen mentions.You are just going to have to be more vigilant in the way that you band to the ball.Try this simple technique

Without a club ,stand up straight with good posture,place your hands on the hip sockets in front of your body.Push back gently on these hips sockets .You will feel your hamstrings stretch and your butt go up in the air.As you approach grounding the club,bend your knees to settle in.As you bend to the ball do not make any independent movement by your neck towards the ball.Your cervical spine(neck) does not need to be ramrod straight ,but it should be relatively straight without your shoulders hunched over much.You need to practice this simple drill in front of a mirror.When you practice .place a mirror dtl and doublecheck this position
Next. to minimze lateral movement by the body ,try another simple drill.Without a club ,take your normal stance and place hands on opposite shoulders.Then just turn your shoulders so that they in line with your right foot.Video this simple drill and try to imitate its feel when you make a swing.Not tucking your chin will help this greatly ,especially near the end of your backswng
To minimize movement place a colored straw or wooden matchstick in your mouth and use it as a visual aid to reduce movement by the head

[keeps21]

Thanks to all who've replied so far, I'm very grateful for your advice!

Well I've been doing a lot of reading / watching of video on the S&T swing and it makes a lot of sense to me.

Here's my first go at it... any critique will be greatly appreciated

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H004Cylessk[/media]


[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuFh3uwZFuk[/media]