Ben Hogan Follow Thru/Finish

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

Why is it so much different than modern golfers?

Why is Hogan's finish so different than today's golfers? What in his dynamic causes this?

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

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[attachment=1154076:inar03_sneadswing.jpg]

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[stiffdogg06]

Two different swing types.
Hogan didn't need all that lateral shift to get to his left side like today's golfers do.

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

Is it that the modern golfer has so much more momentum and power in his movement that he can't stop the left arm from wrapping around the neck and clubhead ending up in front of the head near the left foot?

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

Is is that modern golfers are more flexible than the old-schoolers?

[tembolo1284]

I was going to say it's because of the car accident but I see even in his older swing before the accident he didn't wrap the club around him like the younger chaps today. Flexibility and swing style I would say are the two main components.

[rok78]

Why do MORAD and S&T type of swings finish "short"? Has to do with the re-cocking and use of arms, elbows, wrists to "brake" the club. Age and speed has to do with it too, younger Hogan finished longer.

More interesting is that Hogan "long-arced" it with full ulner deviation of his left wrist long into the through swing, yet braked it fast with his arms after.

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1336497369' post='4873024']
I was going to say it's because of the car accident but [b]I see even in his older swing before the accident he didn't wrap the club around him like the younger chaps today[/b]. Flexibility and swing style I would say are the two main components.
[/quote]

Look at the very first swing here and maybe you'll change your mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K59-7oC8E5U

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1336498572' post='4873180']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1336497369' post='4873024']
I was going to say it's because of the car accident but [b]I see even in his older swing before the accident he didn't wrap the club around him like the younger chaps today[/b]. Flexibility and swing style I would say are the two main components.
[/quote]

Look at the very first swing here and maybe you'll change your mind.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K59-7oC8E5U"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=K59-7oC8E5U[/url]
[/quote]

Yep MJ, I've noted two vids that have him with an out-of-control extra full finish (the one at August with no hat and a bench in the background); these both "appear" to be a bigger swing.....kinda like he was trying to really bang one out of the park.

Tthe shell vid, Augusta purple-looking shirt vids, and many others......there is no full round-the-neck elbow-behind-the-head follow thru.

[ej002]

Connection.

[svsvincenzo]

Hogan is thinking (intent) full roll with the L elbow...full release of #3...try it guys...you will achieve his finish...if you remember to maintain your spine inclination/tilt towards the ball, you will have that high hands finish too...

Now, Tembolo will again scream---MILES LEFT!....lol...true...but again, that can be EASILY remedied...lol

[rich13]

[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1336498962' post='4873238']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1336498572' post='4873180']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1336497369' post='4873024']
I was going to say it's because of the car accident but [b]I see even in his older swing before the accident he didn't wrap the club around him like the younger chaps today[/b]. Flexibility and swing style I would say are the two main components.
[/quote]

Look at the very first swing here and maybe you'll change your mind.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K59-7oC8E5U"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=K59-7oC8E5U[/url]
[/quote]

Yep MJ, I've noted two vids that have him with an out-of-control extra full finish (the one at August with no hat and a bench in the background); these both "appear" to be a bigger swing.....kinda like he was trying to really bang one out of the park.

Tthe shell vid, Augusta purple-looking shirt vids, and many others......there is no full round-the-neck elbow-behind-the-head follow thru.
[/quote]

If you look closely at the "hatless" vids (taken at Augusta National), Hogan has his "strong" left hand grip at address, the shot flight on all of those particular vids is a draw. The vid where he really goes for it was probably a big swinging hook, the same shot he used to win long-driving contests in his earlier days. After changing to the weaker left hand grip, he was able to hit harder with the right hand through impact (and, of course, had to, so as to square up the clubface).....this is because he still used exactly the same follow-through, i.e. one designed to stop any possibility of a hook, by not allowing the left wrist to break down through and after impact. Anybody who is relatively short of stature will necessarily have a flatter swing, and if you use your hands correctly, the [u]bad[/u] shot will always be a hook, Gary Player had the same problem. Watch any videos of Lee Trevino, and you will see basically the same follow-through....guaranteed fade! Try it yourself....line up left of the target, don't let the left wrist break down, (or the right hand cross-over) and you'll hit a lovely little left-to-right fade!

[hoganfan924]

[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1336498962' post='4873238']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1336498572' post='4873180']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1336497369' post='4873024']
I was going to say it's because of the car accident but [b]I see even in his older swing before the accident he didn't wrap the club around him like the younger chaps today[/b]. Flexibility and swing style I would say are the two main components.
[/quote]

Look at the very first swing here and maybe you'll change your mind.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K59-7oC8E5U"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=K59-7oC8E5U[/url]
[/quote]

Yep MJ, I've noted two vids that have him with an out-of-control extra full finish (the one at August with no hat and a bench in the background); these both "appear" to be a bigger swing.....kinda like he was trying to really bang one out of the park.

Tthe shell vid, Augusta purple-looking shirt vids, and many others......there is no full round-the-neck elbow-behind-the-head follow thru.
[/quote]

Hogan was 53 years old in the Shell's WWoG match and 54 or 55 in the Augusta footage you mention. I believe he's about 30 in that first swing that MJ suggested you look at. This is why I asked you when you started on your adventure, which Hogan you wanted to emulate. Personally, if I were attempting it, I'd go for the '46-'49 version, when he was about 34-37 years old, although there's not much good footage available from this era.

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1336698519' post='4892192']
[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1336498962' post='4873238']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1336498572' post='4873180']

Look at the very first swing here and maybe you'll change your mind.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K59-7oC8E5U"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=K59-7oC8E5U[/url]
[/quote]

Yep MJ, I've noted two vids that have him with an out-of-control extra full finish (the one at August with no hat and a bench in the background); these both "appear" to be a bigger swing.....kinda like he was trying to really bang one out of the park.

Tthe shell vid, Augusta purple-looking shirt vids, and many others......there is no full round-the-neck elbow-behind-the-head follow thru.
[/quote]

Hogan was 53 years old in the Shell's WWoG match and 54 or 55 in the Augusta footage you mention. I believe he's about 30 in that first swing that MJ suggested you look at. This is why I asked you when you started on your adventure, which Hogan you wanted to emulate. Personally, if I were attempting it, I'd go for the '46-'49 version, when he was about 34-37 years old, although there's not much good footage available from this era.
[/quote]

Yep, I've come to the conclusion that young Hogan had a lot of wrap-around-the-neck finishes; I've seen lots of video to support that. And the older Hogan had more of the short, over-the-head finish. But then there's still the question of young wrap-around Hogan.......his finish was never a solid pose.....the full wrap-around swings seem to always be out of control and his feet appear to be falling all over the place.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1336699481' post='4892282']
Yep, I've come to the conclusion that young Hogan had a lot of wrap-around-the-neck finishes; I've seen lots of video to support that. And the older Hogan had more of the short, over-the-head finish. But then there's still the question of young wrap-around Hogan.......his finish was never a solid pose.....the full wrap-around swings seem to always be out of control and his feet appear to be falling all over the place.
[/quote]


ya that swing wasn't as good...he never got to his left side properly...that's why he always looks like he's falling back or over.

Not nice. DON'T mimic that swing y0!

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1336748871' post='4895226']
[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1336699481' post='4892282']
Yep, I've come to the conclusion that young Hogan had a lot of wrap-around-the-neck finishes; I've seen lots of video to support that. And the older Hogan had more of the short, over-the-head finish. But then there's still the question of young wrap-around Hogan.......his finish was never a solid pose.....the full wrap-around swings seem to always be out of control and his feet appear to be falling all over the place.
[/quote]


ya that swing wasn't as good...he never got to his left side properly...that's why he always looks like he's falling back or over.

Not nice. DON'T mimic that swing y0!
[/quote]

I actually disagree with you guys on this.

I think that is a awesome swing. He falls back because his stance was really wide and he was crushing the ball. He clearly has all the weight on his left foot when it matters (through impact), but he falls back after impact because the motion wasn't lateral, it was rotational. He rotated so hard its as if he continues to rotate and falls back on his left as his left side continues rotating all the way back away from the target. But the dynamics of this swing are the same as they are in all his swings (see impact and release). And again I think the wider stance explains a lot of it.

Just my view of it. But keep in mind this swing was made in the era when he basically said he didn't miss a shot.

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1336769626' post='4897452']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1336748871' post='4895226']
[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1336699481' post='4892282']
Yep, I've come to the conclusion that young Hogan had a lot of wrap-around-the-neck finishes; I've seen lots of video to support that. And the older Hogan had more of the short, over-the-head finish. But then there's still the question of young wrap-around Hogan.......his finish was never a solid pose.....the full wrap-around swings seem to always be out of control and his feet appear to be falling all over the place.
[/quote]


ya that swing wasn't as good...he never got to his left side properly...that's why he always looks like he's falling back or over.

Not nice. DON'T mimic that swing y0!
[/quote]

I actually disagree with you guys on this.

I think that is a awesome swing. He falls back because his stance was really wide and he was crushing the ball. He clearly has all the weight on his left foot when it matters (through impact), but he falls back after impact because the motion wasn't lateral, it was rotational. He rotated so hard its as if he continues to rotate and falls back on his left as his left side continues rotating all the way back away from the target. But the dynamics of this swing are the same as they are in all his swings (see impact and release). And again I think the wider stance explains a lot of it.

Just my view of it. But keep in mind this swing was made in the era when he basically said he didn't miss a shot.
[/quote]


I too think all of them are masterful pieces of compeling artwork. I was just comparing his younger swings with Shell video swings and saw kind of a free-willy smash it out of the parkk compared to lots of control.

[nicebutdim]

Hogan's follow through and finish is because of his swing style and dynamics............. he is mainly looking for control and repeatability of his ballstriking far more than some of the younger swingers today who are a bit too upper body focused imo. Also Hogan is very efficient in trying to swing his fastest at the point of impact and just beyond, and wrapping a club around your neck doesn't necessarily signify this and it would be very contrived with his motion............. an example is a good baseball swing where kneck wrapping isn't necessary (and Snead probably represents this best) where the focus is mainly the pivot, powerful leg drive, and transition into impact [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6Zd7g7G6OU"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=A6Zd7g7G6OU[/url] .

I also think the main focus of the swing is different for Hogan compared most of these modern guys; he swing thought would target the lower body and pivot action (right leg pivot and running the right knee maybe ;-)) whereas a swing thought for some younger 'athletes' of today is to limit the lower body and stretch the core on the backswing and then focus on wrapping the club (and driving the hips a bit) which simplifies their swing thoughts and signifies that they've made the most complete, fastest and most rhythmic swing they can. Just look at Rory Mcilroy, do you think he's not very concerned about his position at the finish of the swing?! Sorry to ramble a bit with these hypotheses, however I've experimented with both methods and this is what really stands out the most when it comes to swing thought differences.

Is this more modern action because the game has progressed in some way? maybe

however look at this swing of Bubba, arguably the longest on tour and certainly the most creative shaper of the ball [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blcEltknGD0"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=blcEltknGD0[/url]

Bubba is wide and high however his swing finish is not too dissimilar to Hogan's! and he's bashing it farther than the super athletes with the 'power' swings that are being referred too............ why? because he creates tremendous leverage as Hogan and Snead did......... just check out that lower body action!! BEAUTIFUL.

Which is better and/or more suitable to modern conditions? I don't know, but Hogan is considered the best ballstriker to every live by Jack Nicklaus who has pretty much seen them all.

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1336748871' post='4895226']
[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1336699481' post='4892282']
Yep, I've come to the conclusion that young Hogan had a lot of wrap-around-the-neck finishes; I've seen lots of video to support that. And the older Hogan had more of the short, over-the-head finish. But then [b]there's still the question of young wrap-around Hogan[/b].......his finish was never a solid pose.....the full wrap-around swings seem to always be out of control and his feet appear to be falling all over the place.
[/quote]


ya [b]that swing wasn't as good[/b]...he never got to his left side properly...that's why he always looks like he's falling back or over.

Not nice. DON'T mimic that swing y0!
[/quote]

Oops, just saw this. You guys are kidding right???