High Launch Angle - Low Spin

[Pete O'Tube]

All,

 

I need your expert advice.

 

I'm a 60 year old 5 Handicapper who's been playing for over 50 years. In my youth I could hit a 1.62" Slazenger Plus Balata 100 over 280 yards with my 1970 stiff shafted Slazenger Plus driver. Fast forward to 2014 and I'm still hitting it well with my stiff 2009 TM R9 but without any real penetration. Today I booked myself a session on the launch monitor with my club Pro. I hit several drives with the R9, half with the stock Stiff 65g Motore F1 and the rest with a Regular 65g Grafalloy Blue. The averaged results are attached, but in summary I have a club speed of around 91 mph, a ball speed of 130mph, a launch angle of 15 - 17 Deg, Total Spin 1780 rpm, carry 217 yards and total distance 242 yards.

 

So......

 

I have too high a Launch Angle and much too little spin. The ball goes out there looking good, runs quickly out of steam and then drops lifeless to the ground.

 

What Driver and Shaft combination should I look at? Obviously TM and the rest with their high launch, low spin drivers are useless too me. All suggestions welcomed.

[NYCgolfer17]

According to TM, you have almost the perfect launch conditions. 1700 spin, 17 deg launch angle.

[Pete O'Tube]

[quote name='NYCgolfer17' timestamp='1399479169' post='9250387']
According to TM, you have almost the perfect launch conditions. 1700 spin, 17 deg launch angle.

[/quote]

Hmmmmm.....

I'm confused now. Is this the ideal Launch Angle/spin combination for my swing speed with any driver? I tried a Ping G25 with the stock stiff shaft and thought things had improved.

[NYCgolfer17]

Quote:


There was a time not too long ago that 12 degrees of launch and 2,500 rpms was considered ideal. Not anymore. Olsavsky likes “17/17,” as in 17 degrees of launch and 1,700 rpms. “Now, that’s a pretty hard launch condition to produce and only some tour players can do that,” he says, noting one of the longest hitters on tour, TaylorMade staff player Dustin Johnson, clocks in at 15/2,100. “He’s close to that optimum. The higher you go and the less spin you have, the farther you’re going to hit it.”

[NYCgolfer17]

Also, here is a thread on it (I have not read the thread)

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/944155-17-launch-1700-rpm/

[Pete O'Tube]

Also, here is a thread on it (I have not read the thread)

 

http://www.golfwrx.c...aunch-1700-rpm/

 

From that thread:

 

 

So, with my ball speed of 130 mph, I need a launch angle of 14-16 Deg and 3500-3800 rpm.

 

TaylorMade staff player Dustin Johnson, clocks in at 15/2,100.

 

I don't quite generate as much 'grunt' as Mr Johnson.

[NYCgolfer17]

Also, here is a thread on it (I have not read the thread)

 

http://www.golfwrx.c...aunch-1700-rpm/

 

From that thread:

 

 

So, with my ball speed of 130 mph, I need a launch angle of 14-16 Deg and 3500-3800 rpm.

 

TaylorMade staff player Dustin Johnson, clocks in at 15/2,100.

 

I don't quite generate as much 'grunt' as Mr Johnson.

 

I'm not going to sit here and argue with you, you asked a question, I directed you to a thread that discussed it and you come back with something from a link in that thread that was refuting what the original thread said? Common man.

[Pete O'Tube]

Also, here is a thread on it (I have not read the thread)

 

http://www.golfwrx.c...aunch-1700-rpm/

 

From that thread:

 

 

So, with my ball speed of 130 mph, I need a launch angle of 14-16 Deg and 3500-3800 rpm.

 

TaylorMade staff player Dustin Johnson, clocks in at 15/2,100.

 

I don't quite generate as much 'grunt' as Mr Johnson.

 

I'm not going to sit here and argue with you, you asked a question, I directed you to a thread that discussed it and you come back with something from a link in that thread that was refuting what the original thread said? Common man.

 

I'm not arguing with you. I read the thread and came away unconvinced with the 'facts' you quoted originally. Read the entire thread yourself, maybe you'll agree with me. I would like you to convince me that your original statement is relevant for all swing speeds. I think you'll find it isn't. If you think that I'm being unreasonable, we'll call it a day and I thank you for your postings.

 

I still would like some advice on higher spinning club/shaft combinations.

[skylargolf]

Your numbers are excellent! You are pretty much hitting it as far as you can with your ball speed. You can plug in numbers on Flight Scopes trajectory optimizer to see if you could actually pick up some distance off your current numbers. http://flightscope.com/products/trajectory-optimizer/

[MadGolfer76]

Also, here is a thread on it (I have not read the thread)

 

http://www.golfwrx.c...aunch-1700-rpm/

 

From that thread:

 

 

So, with my ball speed of 130 mph, I need a launch angle of 14-16 Deg and 3500-3800 rpm.

 

TaylorMade staff player Dustin Johnson, clocks in at 15/2,100.

 

I don't quite generate as much 'grunt' as Mr Johnson.

 

I'm not going to sit here and argue with you, you asked a question, I directed you to a thread that discussed it and you come back with something from a link in that thread that was refuting what the original thread said? Common man.

 

I'm not arguing with you. I read the thread and came away unconvinced with the 'facts' you quoted originally. Read the entire thread yourself, maybe you'll agree with me. I would like you to convince me that your original statement is relevant for all swing speeds. I think you'll find it isn't. If you think that I'm being unreasonable, we'll call it a day and I thank you for your postings.

 

I still would like some advice on higher spinning club/shaft combinations.

 

People have been conditioned on this site to believe that low spin is the be all/end all - most of those guys are shooting themselves in the foot. The chart that you pulled from the other thread is more in line with what you need, which is a hair less launch (if any) and some more spin. Usually, you could go up in loft to increase spin, but you don't want to do that here, though you could try a different shaft and ball - they don't affect spin as much as loft, but there are rpm's to be gained nonetheless. It is more important overall to dial in launch, but since you are so close as it is (overlapping even) you might focus on getting some more spin.

 

edit: As for examples, you might look at a Diamana Redboard or Fubuki Tour, along with higher spinning head like a SuperTri or G15. Getting harder to find higher spinning heads these days unless you want to go up in loft.

[Pete O'Tube]

[quote name='skylargolf' timestamp='1399487872' post='9251383']
Your numbers are excellent! You are pretty much hitting it as far as you can with your ball speed. You can plug in numbers on Flight Scopes trajectory optimizer to see if you could actually pick up some distance off your current numbers. [url="http://flightscope.com/products/trajectory-optimizer/"]http://flightscope.c...tory-optimizer/[/url]
[/quote]

Thanks a lot. I'll show this thread to my pro and see what he has to say. Anyone else??

[NYCgolfer17]

[quote name='ehardman' timestamp='1399488813' post='9251471']
[quote name='skylargolf' timestamp='1399487872' post='9251383']
Your numbers are excellent! You are pretty much hitting it as far as you can with your ball speed. You can plug in numbers on Flight Scopes trajectory optimizer to see if you could actually pick up some distance off your current numbers. [url="http://flightscope.com/products/trajectory-optimizer/"]http://flightscope.c...tory-optimizer/[/url]
[/quote]

Thanks a lot. I'll show this thread to my pro and see what he has to say. Anyone else??
[/quote]

You thank him but when I told you your number are almost perfect, you start arguing with me?

[MadGolfer76]

[quote name='NYCgolfer17' timestamp='1399489060' post='9251505']
[quote name='ehardman' timestamp='1399488813' post='9251471']
[quote name='skylargolf' timestamp='1399487872' post='9251383']
Your numbers are excellent! You are pretty much hitting it as far as you can with your ball speed. You can plug in numbers on Flight Scopes trajectory optimizer to see if you could actually pick up some distance off your current numbers. [url="http://flightscope.com/products/trajectory-optimizer/"]http://flightscope.c...tory-optimizer/[/url]
[/quote]

Thanks a lot. I'll show this thread to my pro and see what he has to say. Anyone else??
[/quote]

You thank him but when I told you your number are almost perfect, you start arguing with me?
[/quote]

Enough. People can make up their own minds about things, and his numbers were not perfect.

[Pete O'Tube]

[quote][color=#282828]People have been conditioned on this site to believe that low spin is the be all/end all - most of those guys are shooting themselves in the foot. The chart that you pulled from the other thread is more in line with what you need, which is a hair less launch (if any) and some more spin. Usually, you could go up in loft to increase spin, but you don't want to do that here, though you could try a different shaft and ball - they don't affect spin as much as loft, but there are rpm's to be gained nonetheless. It is more important overall to dial in launch, but since you are so close as it is (overlapping even) you might focus on getting some more spin.[/color]

[/quote]

Thanks for your opinion. I normally use an NXT Tour S, but have been advised to go for a higher spinning ball like the Pro v1. I took a G25 with the stock S shaft out today and tried to get a bit more 'attack' on the ball (and hence more spin) by hitting down on it a bit more with a fade setup. Seemed to work, with much better performance into wind.

[Pete O'Tube]

[quote name='NYCgolfer17' timestamp='1399489060' post='9251505']
[quote name='ehardman' timestamp='1399488813' post='9251471']
[quote name='skylargolf' timestamp='1399487872' post='9251383']
Your numbers are excellent! You are pretty much hitting it as far as you can with your ball speed. You can plug in numbers on Flight Scopes trajectory optimizer to see if you could actually pick up some distance off your current numbers. [url="http://flightscope.com/products/trajectory-optimizer/"]http://flightscope.c...tory-optimizer/[/url]
[/quote]

Thanks a lot. I'll show this thread to my pro and see what he has to say. Anyone else??
[/quote]

You thank him but when I told you your number are almost perfect, you start arguing with me?
[/quote]

Read my post and stop being so precious. I am going to show my pro the THREAD. This includes your opinions, doesn't it?

Jeez....

[MadGolfer76]

[quote name='ehardman' timestamp='1399489628' post='9251587']
[quote name='NYCgolfer17' timestamp='1399489060' post='9251505']
[quote name='ehardman' timestamp='1399488813' post='9251471']
[quote name='skylargolf' timestamp='1399487872' post='9251383']
Your numbers are excellent! You are pretty much hitting it as far as you can with your ball speed. You can plug in numbers on Flight Scopes trajectory optimizer to see if you could actually pick up some distance off your current numbers. [url="http://flightscope.com/products/trajectory-optimizer/"]http://flightscope.c...tory-optimizer/[/url]
[/quote]

Thanks a lot. I'll show this thread to my pro and see what he has to say. Anyone else??
[/quote]

You thank him but when I told you your number are almost perfect, you start arguing with me?
[/quote]

Read my post and stop being so precious. I am going to show my pro the THREAD. This includes your opinions, doesn't it?

Jeez....
[/quote]

Precious...I like that response.

[Barney Boom]

If you'd like to try a higher spinning head , try last years Cobra AMP Cell with there stock regular shaft.
the whole 17/1700 scenario is great if you're a great ball striker , but watch out if you bad shot is low left
you dont want low spin numbers with that as your bad shot.
BTW - high spinning shafts , take a look at the Miyasaki Kusula White or Bassara from MR

[klausdude]

As a suggestion, it wouldn't hurt to hit any of those other "high launch" combos that have the ability to swap shafts. You may find that one of those combos will give you better numbers for your given launch conditions.

[apras]

Try to change you ball to bridgestone e-5, or if you could find the wilson FG tour ball. Both will spin more than your nxt without breaking the bank.

[Golfrnut]

1. Ball speed trumps just about everything. The more ball speed generated, the farther it's going. That, most importantly, involves center face contact. At 90 MPH, that means ball speed somewhere in the 132-134 range.

2. Launch angle and spin need to be married to playing conditions as much as anything. Harder ground conditions with a lower spin number can generate just much and possibly more distance than that of a higher spin number. There again, all depends on conditions at hand.

3. For those that are inclined to do so, if you play with the FS optimizer enough, you will begin to notice that untile you really get into higher ball speeds and high club head speeds, there are tons of variable that you can put togeather that net right around the same distance. The difference being in a higher carry and less roll vs a lower carry and more roll. There again, a lot of that depends on playing conditions. The setup that has a lower descent angle and uses roll is not going to fair as well on a course that is wet/damp. Conversley, one with more spin, a higher apex, and higher descent angle is not going to fair as well in windy conditions.

With all the being said, I would appear that possibly a GC2 monitor was used judging by the fixed 1.45 smash factor. With that, it's hard to tell what the actual head speed was if that is the case, and how efficient the swing actually was. I also am not a fan of the roll calculation on most monitors as it tends to be a little inflated when compared to real world results. However, at the kind of ball speed, 210-220 yards of carry is not that bad at all and is about the most you are going to see. There again, ball speed means more than anything else at those speeds.

To the OP, you are not seeing the ball run out of steam because of spin, or lack there of. That is not technically how the spin really relates to it. Your descent angle being pretty shallow is an indicator of that.

[Pete O'Tube]

[quote name='Golfrnut' timestamp='1400949672' post='9360065']
1. Ball speed trumps just about everything. The more ball speed generated, the farther it's going. That, most importantly, involves center face contact. At 90 MPH, that means ball speed somewhere in the 132-134 range.

2. Launch angle and spin need to be married to playing conditions as much as anything. Harder ground conditions with a lower spin number can generate just much and possibly more distance than that of a higher spin number. There again, all depends on conditions at hand.

3. For those that are inclined to do so, if you play with the FS optimizer enough, you will begin to notice that untile you really get into higher ball speeds and high club head speeds, there are tons of variable that you can put togeather that net right around the same distance. The difference being in a higher carry and less roll vs a lower carry and more roll. There again, a lot of that depends on playing conditions. The setup that has a lower descent angle and uses roll is not going to fair as well on a course that is wet/damp. Conversley, one with more spin, a higher apex, and higher descent angle is not going to fair as well in windy conditions.

With all the being said, I would appear that possibly a GC2 monitor was used judging by the fixed 1.45 smash factor. With that, it's hard to tell what the actual head speed was if that is the case, and how efficient the swing actually was. I also am not a fan of the roll calculation on most monitors as it tends to be a little inflated when compared to real world results. However, at the kind of ball speed, 210-220 yards of carry is not that bad at all and is about the most you are going to see. There again, ball speed means more than anything else at those speeds.

To the OP, you are not seeing the ball run out of steam because of spin, or lack there of. That is not technically how the spin really relates to it. Your descent angle being pretty shallow is an indicator of that.
[/quote]

Thanks for your comments. I've tried all the clubs my club pro stocks. Ping G25 and i25, TM Jetspeed and SLDR. Swapped shafts around but didn't really like any of them although the SLDR did give me better flight. Then I went into the local branch of American Golf on Saturday and tried the 913 D3 with the RIP Phenom, Yonex with the strange counterweighted grip, Big Bertha, Big Bertha Alpha and Cobra. Left 2 hours later with the BB Alpha. Feels great and I was getting a Launch angle of around 17 deg, 3000ishrpm at a ball speed around 140 mph. It's giving me about 230 yards carry which will do for me. I can play around with the settings for hours now and try to fine tune the launch and carry. Not only that, but I also got my draw back!

Thanks to everyone who posted.

This thread should now be closed.