Hogan Radial Irons with "XX" in place of serial number ??

[gtburgin]

I recently found a set of Hogan Radials (non-underlined) and in place of a normal serial number these irons have only "XX" stamped in proper alignment just above where the serial number would normally be (on the ferrule). "XX" is in the serial number spot on all 8 clubs (3-E) so it appears they were made as a set. I've seen demo versions of these irons but they were stamped "Demo Club" on the ferrule. What does the XX indicate?

[spezza11]

could these be a set not up to spec standards (same idea as an x-out ball???) interesting to see what others think

[birly-shirly]

I don't know. But I'd be surprised if the "sub-std quality" explanation was it. X-out balls are cheap and marked very conspicuously - these would seem to be the opposite.

How are the clubs set up? Factory spec radials would have come with an Apex shaft - probably a 3 or 4 flex - and a 38" 5 iron. Lofts ran from a 23* 3 iron to a 50* Equaliser. Do you have anything different?

[gtburgin]

They all have Apex 3 shafts. I can check the lengths but I have no idea how to check the lofts.
One thing a little odd is that one of the clubs has the red "Apex 3" label about 2" further down the shaft
than all the rest. One is missing the label.
Seems to me a company like Hogan would never allow a sub quality club that failed their quality tests
to leave the factory. If one club had a quality problem why wouldn't they just replace that club with a good one?
If something was wrong with every club in the set, why wouldn't they just scrap them? Hogan was about excellence.
If they did sell sub-par quality irons with this "vague" marking, why has nobody ever heard of this before?
All this made me wonder if this was some type of prototype or perhaps a set destined for the Tour?

[teevons]

Its possible they were experimental, given to a staffer to try out, not made for the general public, some of Hogans early irons and woods had X on the hosel, no serial numbers,X designating them as experimental.

[gtburgin]

[quote name='teevons' timestamp='1404839730' post='9660215']
... some of Hogans early irons and woods had X on the hosel.
[/quote]

If they are experimental it could explain why the maker was a little slack with the location of that "Apex 3"
label on one of the shafts (a couple of inches too low). There was no sign of adhesive where it should have been located and it was stuck on so well that it wanted to tear when I tried to move it, so I think it was placed there at the factory.

I'll try to post a photo if my free membership to this forum allows posting of pictures.
These clubs were found in a run down thrift shop in Georgia sitting in a vintage Hogan red white and blue leather staff bag.
I should have checked the bag for other clues but didn't know these potentially were experimental at the time.
I wonder if a Hogan employee was given both the clubs and the bag.

[pgagolfstuff]

Early in my golf career I was given a set of Apex blades from a friend on tour. They were also marked XX on the hosel
They were indeed a tour prototype. When I compared them to an off the rack set the leading edge was a little different and they had less offset.
One sweet set of irons wish I still had them.. Damn my hoedness.

[gtburgin]

[quote name='pgagolfstuff' timestamp='1404845573' post='9660867']
Early in my golf career I was given a set of Apex blades from a friend on tour. They were also marked XX on the hosel
They were indeed a tour prototype. When I compared them to an off the rack set the leading edge was a little different and they had less offset.
One sweet set of irons wish I still had them.. Damn my hoedness.
[/quote]

Wow! thanks for that reply. Exciting to think I may have some very early Radials that a tour player may have been trying out.
Perhaps that explains why they were sitting in a vintage Hogan red, white, and blue leather staff bag (wish I had checked out
that bag more carefully).
teevons posted above that some experimental clubs just had an "X" on them. I wonder if there could have been
two "classes" of prototypes, "X" marked for any staffer/tester they wanted to give them to, and "XX" marked sets
made for testing by Tour players ? Just pure speculation on my part.

If they are indeed Tour prototypes, do they have any extra value over a similar condition set with a normal serial number?
Its hard to imagine these would have much of a "premium" value-wise since they appear to be no different in terms
of head shape than the retail model.

[super20dan]

no one on the tour ever played radials. these were aimed at the game improvement market -and missed.

[gtburgin]

[quote name='super20dan' timestamp='1404851051' post='9661503']
no one on the tour ever played radials. these were aimed at the game improvement market -and missed.
[/quote]

I guess the intended amateur audience didn't stop the company from making and distributing some prototype sets to see who would bite.
I would assume the reason they made my set and marked them with "XX" is the same reason they made the set of Apex irons
described above by pgagolfstuff which were also marked with "XX". Perhaps the prototype radials were never sent to Tour players.
I would think tour players would want stiff or extra stiff shafts and mine are just the Apex-3 shafts.

[super20dan]

tour use would have had apex 5 . yours could have been some kind of test market /prototype club. have you hit them?

[super20dan]

hogan was forced to do a commercial promoting the radials. i read this in a book. the company was in the red and the company head talked hogan into doing a commercial. lucky for the company the edge came along and saved the day (for a while)

[gtburgin]

[quote name='super20dan' timestamp='1404862111' post='9662543']
......... have you hit them?
[/quote]

No. I'm not a good enough golfer to play these heavy blades. I'm currently about as far away from Radials as I can get ( old Callaway X-12's w/ reg flex graphite shafts).
Most of the Radials in the set look like they were never used so I didn't want to put marks on them until I found out what the "XX" meant and whether it makes the clubs more valuable. I'm not a golf club collector so I'll probably sell them. I just wanted to find out if there was any premium associated with prototypes.

[pgagolfstuff]

[quote name='super20dan' timestamp='1404851051' post='9661503']
no one on the tour ever played radials. these were aimed at the game improvement market -and missed.
[/quote]
Now that's the silliest comment you could possibly make..
Kenny Perry played standard Taylor Made RAC OS 2, standard non TP R7 heads
Billy Mayfair played Titleist 804 irons and now plays the Ping G15
Camillo Villegas also played the TaylorMade burner 2.0 Irons and the Tour Preferred CB irons.
Gary Woodland played the X Hot Pro Irons in several events last season as well.

All of the above clubs might be considered game improvement clubs.
The guys on tour hit what works for them.

[gtburgin]

[quote name='pgagolfstuff' timestamp='1404868464' post='9663213']
[quote name='super20dan' timestamp='1404851051' post='9661503']
no one on the tour ever played radials. these were aimed at the game improvement market -and missed.
[/quote]
Now that's the silliest comment you could possibly make..
Kenny Perry played standard Taylor Made RAC OS 2, standard non TP R7 heads
Billy Mayfair played Titleist 804 irons and now plays the Ping G15
Camillo Villegas also played the TaylorMade burner 2.0 Irons and the Tour Preferred CB irons.
Gary Woodland played the X Hot Pro Irons in several events last season as well.

All of the above clubs might be considered game improvement clubs.
The guys on tour hit what works for them.
[/quote]


I looked as best I could online for any indication that Radials were used by a touring pro and could find nothing.
The only reason I know they exist is because my brother who's an 8-10 handicapper swears by them
and has been using them since around 1990.

[birly-shirly]

[quote name='gtburgin' timestamp='1404866926' post='9663015'] [quote name='super20dan' timestamp='1404862111' post='9662543'] ......... have you hit them? [/quote] No. I'm not a good enough golfer to play these heavy blades. I'm currently about as far away from Radials as I can get ( old Callaway X-12's w/ reg flex graphite shafts). Most of the Radials in the set look like they were never used so I didn't want to put marks on them until I found out what the "XX" meant and whether it makes the clubs more valuable. I'm not a golf club collector so I'll probably sell them. I just wanted to find out if there was any premium associated with prototypes. [/quote]

Don't sell yourself short - and don't be put off by the heads being blades. These were designed to be played by the average golfer. The shafts are regular flex, reasonably lightweight as steel goes, and a low flex point which will help get the ball in the air. The heads aren't as sexy as Apex blades, but plenty of people have raved about the playability of these.

They're not Callaway X12s (which if I was buying a set of Callys would be high on my list) but not in a bad or inferior way - just different. Clubhead forgiveness is way-overrated. On the other hand, the Radials can easily be set up to fit you and your swing very easily, in a way that the X-12s cannot. And you might find the feedback from the Hogans way more rewarding than what you get currently.

One thing that I believe quite strongly about going from hitting cavity backs to blades. Don't confuse a small sweetspot with the sweetspot being in a different place. When I switch between sets, I usually find it takes somewhere between a few balls and a few rounds to start hitting them consistently well. It takes time to adjust - but don't jump to the conclusion that the time taken to adjust means your new clubs are hard to hit, it just means that you're learning how and where to hit them well.

I would give these a decent trial before moving them on. I've always fancied hitting a set of Radials to see how they compare to my other Hogans.

Whether your clubs are prototype or tour issue - you'd think there would be some premium. Even if they're "only" prototype, you'd think that they've been prepared and assembled with a bit more care and attention than a run of the mill production set. But it's a sad fact that proto or tour issue Radials just aren't likely to be half so attractive in the market as the "big boy" Apex irons.

[super20dan]

my comment was aimed at amf,s shortsighted attempt to make a game improvment club-not at the tour in general. ping was eating every other company alive with the eye2 and the best amf came up with was the radial. as you can guess i am not a fan of this desighn.i have never used an iron thats so hard to swing as these. so heavy its brutal.

[birly-shirly]

[quote name='super20dan' timestamp='1404904369' post='9665073']
[...]i have never used an iron thats so hard to swing as these. so heavy its brutal.
[/quote]

If that's true, any idea what these swingweighted at?

Reason for asking is that Hogan listed the factory spec length as slightly longer than their standard for other clubs of that time. That's a very odd move if using the same shaft weight and a heavier head.

[gtburgin]

[quote name='super20dan' timestamp='1404904369' post='9665073']
... so heavy its brutal.
[/quote]

That was my experience when I hit my brother's Radials on the range years ago. My hands got tired trying to keep from casting the club out too early (my stiff wrists don't get the club to parallel and I start the downswing with the club slightly "cast" already which wreaks havoc with the downswing). No substitute for loads of athletic ability and talent which my brother has. At 5'6" and with average size hands he makes using these irons look easy. He even uses the 2 iron, LOL.

[super20dan]

no i havent swing weight checked them-afraid too-lol. mine have apex 4 shafts too which makes them even more stout. i tried to like these are they are hogans but they are just too much work. one bright spot is the Ewedge is the best hogan e club i have hit. its desighn is diff from the rest of the set-more conventional blade.

[gtburgin]

[quote name='super20dan' timestamp='1404941230' post='9668875']
.... its desighn is diff from the rest of the set-more conventional blade.
[/quote]

Not sure what you are referring to on the E wedge. Mine has the same rounded backside when viewing the sole that all
the rest of the irons have. The sole of the E is a little bit deeper (front to back) than say the 3 iron but the same curve is there.

[Prut]

Going to bump this thread. Picked up a set of Radials 3-9 this morning from the local Goodwill for $19. I believe these to be the 1987 model - Radial is underlined but the shaft is pinned.

 

Mine have the same "XX" stamp on the ferrules where the serial number should be. Did we ever get a definitive reason for the XX?

 

Thanks

[fergytheprop]

no one on the tour ever played radials. these were aimed at the game improvement market -and missed.

My Father coached a player called Kim Dabson who briefly played on the European Tour and played with Hogan Radials before they were on general release.