Tour Testosteron ?

[Onebulldogs]

Micheel's Sponsorship - Cap

Watching today's tournement, I noticed the sponsor and Shaun Micheel's cap and thought - no way the PGA would allow him to advertise for Testosteron on his cap.

Sure enough, he is advertising for a drug banned by most other sports.

Since he has a legitimate medical condition, I am not opposed to him using it; however, I don't feel comfortable with it advertised at PGA events.

Your thoughts?

[Titleist87]

Well if the PGA does not ban it and they take sponsorship from Cialis....

[tpariff]

There's quite a difference in the dosage of testosterone used to treat a condition like Micheel's vs. the dosage used by someone to enhance athletic performance or to bulk up. It's the same for steroids, and possibly even for HGH.

 

Hormone replacement as a medical treatment should not be banned by any professional sport IMO as long as it is done at the proper levels and tested for on a regular basis.

[tpariff]

Well if the PGA does not ban it and they take sponsorship from Cialis....

 

I can't see where Cialis would held someone sink a 6 footer for par to win a tournament. In fact, I'd argue that something "might get in the way" of making such a putt! :tongue:

[laseranimal]

ahh but here's the problem with banning drugs, you look pretty stupid that you'll ban one thing and not the other

 

I just had to laugh when the NFL went bananas over Janet's nipple at the superbowl given that CIALAS is one of their main sponsors. To me it was hypocritical at best to be OUTRAGED at a bare nipple when you're taking money from a company who wants to market a pill to help older people have sex.

 

It always bugs me that we can get THREE drugs to help old people bump uglies but can't cure cancer or aids

 

the PGA tour is gutless when it comes to drug enforcement anyway since they don't even bother with testing

 

I'm waiting for the Jose Canseco type tell all book about golf thats going to come out in 15-20 years where we find out that there WAS a percentage of tour guys "on the juice" and we have to start questioning records like they're doing in baseball right now.

 

Bet thats why Tiger is a proponent of testing, I would be too if I was clean and good. I wouldn't want that kind of tinge on any records that I achieved. Look at all the baseball #'s from the 90's, just because of the allegation of steroids all those numbers are suspect and theres no way to go back and prove whether a player was guilty or innocent

[jzatl04]

Well if the PGA does not ban it and they take sponsorship from Cialis....

 

I can't see where Cialis would help someone sink a 6 footer for par to win a tournament. In fact, I'd argue that something "might get in the way" of making such a putt! :tongue:

 

But with 36-hour Cialis you can wait until the time is right for you and your putter... er, partner.

[glcoach]

My wife is a rep for the company Micheel is being sponsored by, so I am all for it. :tongue:. She got back from the meeting where they announced the partnership a couple of weeks ago.

 

More cash for me to spend on golf stuff, if all you guys take it. :D

 

Seriously, it's only a 1% dose, to get any kind of benefit athletically it would have to be a dose of 10 times what you get from Testim. Basically, the drug enhances your overall feelings and gets men back to feeling more "normal". It is really something every male over 30 should look into.

[tpariff]

ahh but here's the problem with banning drugs, you look pretty stupid that you'll ban one thing and not the other

 

I just had to laugh when the NFL went bananas over Janet's nipple at the superbowl given that CIALAS is one of their main sponsors. To me it was hypocritical at best to be OUTRAGED at a bare nipple when you're taking money from a company who wants to market a pill to help older people have sex.

 

It always bugs me that we can get THREE drugs to help old people bump uglies but can't cure cancer or aids

 

the PGA tour is gutless when it comes to drug enforcement anyway since they don't even bother with testing

 

I'm waiting for the Jose Canseco type tell all book about golf thats going to come out in 15-20 years where we find out that there WAS a percentage of tour guys "on the juice" and we have to start questioning records like they're doing in baseball right now.

 

Bet thats why Tiger is a proponent of testing, I would be too if I was clean and good. I wouldn't want that kind of tinge on any records that I achieved. Look at all the baseball #'s from the 90's, just because of the allegation of steroids all those numbers are suspect and theres no way to go back and prove whether a player was guilty or innocent

 

The baseball numbers from the 90's are all legit even if the players who set those records admitted juicing. Why? Because there was no steroid policy during that time and the drugs were not banned by MLB. You must understand that any and all drugs that are tested for, and the tests for detecting them, must be agreed upon by MLB and the Players Union. This has always been a big issue between the two sides. MLB will tell you they want to clean up the game, but in reality, homeruns sell tickets. After the strike of the mid 90's MLB NEEDED guys like Sosa and Mac to hit tons of homers to put butts back in the seats. It's economics, plain and simple. And there's no way Big Mac was doing all of that with Andro!

 

With regard to other performance enhancing substances, there is currently no universally accepted test for HGH, so a smart player would be loading up on that stuff instead of steroids. Also, in order to 'fail' a steroid test, the level has to be significantly higher than normal, something like 6x the body's normal amount. So, if a player is juicing and has the right chemist, he can take the stuff but still be below the red line.

 

I really can't see where HGH or steroids would help in golf. Sure, maybe a player picks up a few yards in driving distance, but they still have to keep it in play and putt. There aren't too many bulked up guys who can make good golf swings. If distance was the key factor to winning PGA events, then Zuback and the fellas on the Cobra LD staff would be whipping Tiger's arse every week!

[RagingAardvark]

In order to really curb drug abuse in sports, you really need to test for it. In cycling, you'll find that some guys are ungodly strong and turn in amazing performances in these smaller events where they know there won't be any testing, then in big races they might not even be able to get away from the field....hmmmmmmmmmmm...

 

Clean athletes SHOULD be calling for more drug testing. It's in their best interests!

[laseranimal]

 

The baseball numbers from the 90's are all legit even if the players who set those records admitted juicing. Why? Because there was no steroid policy during that time and the drugs were not banned by MLB. You must understand that any and all drugs that are tested for, and the tests for detecting them, must be agreed upon by MLB and the Players Union. This has always been a big issue between the two sides. MLB will tell you they want to clean up the game, but in reality, homeruns sell tickets. After the strike of the mid 90's MLB NEEDED guys like Sosa and Mac to hit tons of homers to put butts back in the seats. It's economics, plain and simple. And there's no way Big Mac was doing all of that with Andro!

 

 

yup they're legit in the books, and no one is going to have an asterisk put on HR totals, but in peoples minds that entire era is tainted, we wanted to believe what we were seeing. Its not unlike whats happening to Floyd Landis, even if he does retain his TDF title, there is that cloud of suspicion that will never go away.

 

 

I really can't see where HGH or steroids would help in golf. Sure, maybe a player picks up a few yards in driving distance, but they still have to keep it in play and putt. There aren't too many bulked up guys who can make good golf swings. If distance was the key factor to winning PGA events, then Zuback and the fellas on the Cobra LD staff would be whipping Tiger's arse every week!

 

Who's to say you have to "bulk up" to use drugs, look at cyclists, they're probably the dirtiest athletes on the planet next to X-C skiers. Maybe steroids and HGH aren't the drug of choice for golf, but you start messing with beta blockers and other stuff that makes you less "twitchy" on putts, or start blood doping hoping to gain endurance advantages on hilly or longer courses and there goes your "clean" sport.

 

As for HGH and steroids, its only a matter of time, lets say you had someone like Fred Funk today or Vijay in 5-10 years, they're in the twilight of their competitive PGA career, possibly in danger of losing their cards and a good chunk of $$$. Doctor comes to them and says take this pill and you can get back those 10-20 yards you're giving up to the younger guys. Maybe you won't win the tournament, but you can hang around the top 25 in PGA events which is better then being over on the champions tour. I think guys like Funk and Vijay have too much class to start doping, but whats to stop somebody else? What about an up and comer like Camelio, you could go from being a star to a super star and all the perks that go with it.

 

There's just too much incentive to cheat these days, and claiming that "our game" is too honorable for something like that to happen is just putting our heads in the sand and hoping that we don't notice the problem

[VinceRKG]

Since he has a legitimate medical condition, I am not opposed to him using it; however, I don't feel comfortable with it advertised at PGA events.

 

I dont see why that one wouldnt be comfortable with it. If the PGA is ok with it, Is that going to change your mind about the tour? I dont get it............

[Onebulldogs]

ahh but here's the problem with banning drugs, you look pretty stupid that you'll ban one thing and not the other

 

I just had to laugh when the NFL went bananas over Janet's nipple at the superbowl given that CIALAS is one of their main sponsors. To me it was hypocritical at best to be OUTRAGED at a bare nipple when you're taking money from a company who wants to market a pill to help older people have sex.

 

It always bugs me that we can get THREE drugs to help old people bump uglies but can't cure cancer or aids

 

the PGA tour is gutless when it comes to drug enforcement anyway since they don't even bother with testing

 

I'm waiting for the Jose Canseco type tell all book about golf thats going to come out in 15-20 years where we find out that there WAS a percentage of tour guys "on the juice" and we have to start questioning records like they're doing in baseball right now.

 

Bet thats why Tiger is a proponent of testing, I would be too if I was clean and good. I wouldn't want that kind of tinge on any records that I achieved. Look at all the baseball #'s from the 90's, just because of the allegation of steroids all those numbers are suspect and theres no way to go back and prove whether a player was guilty or innocent

 

Earlier today, I was talking with a guy at work about amatuer wrestling. Both of us had the pleasure of competing against "roid monsters" and didn't appreciate it. If I was a professional athlete, I would insist on drug testing.

[Baller]

Maybe off topic here; Cary Wood and Mark Prior since testing started ...Garbage ;)

[tpariff]

Maybe off topic here; Cary Wood and Mark Prior since testing started ...Garbage ;)

 

Very off topic as they have never tested positive for anything. Chalk up their poor performance to injuries, plain and simple. And for what it's worth, don't you think guys like this would be taking something a bit more "designer" than a 1% testosterone treatment? HGH perhaps, which has no proven testing method.

 

If you're going to point fingers at MLB players, you better have a huge hand with enough fingers to go around. It's everywhere in MLB and the league doesn't really give a damn.

[phillypete]

I can almost promise there are guys on tour doping. Who or with what, I don't know but the temptations are too great. And lets not forget the temptation lies within everyone associated with the player. As much as we hear the excuse, "My trainer makes me drinks, I don't know whats in them," and as much as we love to turn the ridicule on extra strong... its probably true more often than not. There is a huge competition amongst the elite trainers, therapists, nutritionists, etc. If a a tour player starts working with a new trainer and all of a sudden gains 15 yards on his drives, then that trainers dance card is going to get really full really quick.

[gmoney77]

What condition does he have?

 

What is the actual drug? website?

[ripsid]

A dosage used for Low testosterone levels is mininimal at best! I believe HRT (Hormone Replacement Therapy) starts at around 75mgs using "test-cream" OR as Balco called it "the cream" and can go as high as 125mgs using the cream (I believe cream goes that high). Test=creams when used @ 75mgs you would only receive approx 60mgs of testosterone into your system. HRT levels of Testosterone Enthenate or Cypeniate which is the same stuff the pro-bodybuilders use is given at approx. 125mgs or 1/2cc every 2 weeks. It is helpful in reestablishing your manlyness but it won't help you hit the ball farther!

 

A Pro-bodybuilder would use around 2000mgs of test a week... a pro athlete will use shorter lasting testosterone along with HGH and or another anabolic agent that doesn't show in the blood system for long. but at a lower dosage.

 

That being said, and I ranted somewhat... I have no issue at ALL with Micheel using testosterone to help him out medically. Also, if you went to an "Anti-Aging Clinic" the amount of HGH and testosterone you would be administered would be minimal! If you workout and so forth you see benefits, but you won't end up being a 275lb 3% body fat Mr. Olympia finalist, you will just not feel lethargic, or loss of sex drive, better ability to think and others..!

 

You have to remember when someone is given HRT or HGH + Testosterone for a medical condition it it because the perons' testosterone levels are way below normal! (I forget what avg is for an age), so what is administered is enough to help elevate the persons' levels to normal!!!!!! Not to help them gain an enormous amount of muscle mass!

 

SiD