I've made some big changes - what's next?

Dent · June 10, 2015

Hey guys. Long time lurker but amateur poster. I've been playing golf since I was about 7 years old and really had a peak when I was about 14-16. I'm 23 and my game is hardly improving anymore as I've stayed around a 4 handicap for the past 2-3 years. I'm a huge mental nutcase and my problem is my swing feels different every day, like I don't have a repeatable swing most specifically on the downswing.

This was my position at the top at the beginning of the year. I had zero body/hip turn and always got away with it until this year. Here was my swing in May

https://vimeo.com/130352695

Now. After working at it myself I've turned it to this:

Here is my swing now. My most common miss now is a high or low push fade that either looks like a shank or a high 30 yard miss. Part of it could be I'm using XStiff shafts that really feel too stiff for me but I don't know. I've got the hip turn almost figured out. I just have to hit more greens, I have huge troubles with alignment (shoulda posted a DTL video) and usually have to step back during every shot to reposition myself.

https://vimeo.com/130352382

What's next? Any comments or. Critique is appreciated!

straightshot7 · June 11, 2015

Looks pretty good, nice swing.

One thing I notice right away is your take away. This may be something unique to yourself that works for you, but that little forward press move and then the immediate takeaway with the hands, is too handsy in my opinion

I'd like to see you have a smooth, one piece takeaway combining a slight weight shift back, and turning of hips/shoulders together. Starting the swing off that handsy makes things more difficult for you.

Dent · June 11, 2015

[quote name='straightshot7' timestamp='1434005275' post='11730380']Looks pretty good, nice swing.

One thing I notice right away is your take away. This may be something unique to yourself that works for you, but that little forward press move and then the immediate takeaway with the hands, is too handsy in my opinion

I'd like to see you have a smooth, one piece takeaway combining a slight weight shift back, and turning of hips/shoulders together. Starting the swing off that handsy makes things more difficult for you.[/quote]

I absolutely agree. The biggest problem for me is my hands. I use a baseball grip so my hands have so much free reign to move around. The biggest confusion in my swing right now is I'm just not sure what my hands should be doing in the swing. Primarily on the downswing I can sometimes feel my hands and forearms starting the downswing.

I guess the hand movement at the beginning is an effort to get my hands over the ball and my trigger.

Any ideas of how else I can get my hands over the ball/shaft lean? Whenever I immediately address the ball I'm always behind it.

straightshot7 · June 11, 2015

Looks pretty good, nice swing.

One thing I notice right away is your take away. This may be something unique to yourself that works for you, but that little forward press move and then the immediate takeaway with the hands, is too handsy in my opinion

I'd like to see you have a smooth, one piece takeaway combining a slight weight shift back, and turning of hips/shoulders together. Starting the swing off that handsy makes things more difficult for you.

I absolutely agree. The biggest problem for me is my hands. I use a baseball grip so my hands have so much free reign to move around. The biggest confusion in my swing right now is I'm just not sure what my hands should be doing in the swing. Primarily on the downswing I can sometimes feel my hands and forearms starting the downswing.

I guess the hand movement at the beginning is an effort to get my hands over the ball and my trigger.

Any ideas of how else I can get my hands over the ball/shaft lean? Whenever I immediately address the ball I'm always behind it.

Yes I noticed you setup with your hands slightly behind the ball, before you perform the forward press.

I'm not a professional instructor so one might have a better answer for you...but it looks like your left wrist may be slightly bowed when you first setup with your hands behind the ball?

I have always just naturally setup with my hands in the normal position, so I'm not sure what's causing you to setup with them behind the ball. Try softening your wrist and letting your hands hang naturally?

My instructor in college once recommended I read a book by George Knudson called "The Natural Golf Swing". George Knudson is the Canadian player who studied Hogan and had an excellent swing, winning a couple times on tour.

Anyways, one of the biggest things I learned in that book is the idea that the hands and arms just hold onto the club---that it is your weight shift and turn that should be driving force in the swing.

You make a motion to the target, and the ball just gets in the way.

If you don't manipulate the grip (clubface), the clubface stays square to the target the entire swing.

When I adopted this philosophy my ball striking became a lot better because I never have to worry about the clubface being square to the ball, because I don't manipulate the club at all with my hands.

My hands feel fairly passive. It is my weight shift, turn,pivot, etc. that is powering the swing while my hands are just kind of hanging.

I would try softening your hands and arms and hit a lot of small practice swings where you feel like the hands and arms are just along for the ride, to get the feeling that they aren't the driving force in the swing.

If you stand in a setup position, with your arms hanging, you can actually move the club back and through just by shifting your weight back and then through to your front foot. Practice that. You don't have to do anything consciously with your hands and arms to swing the club.

The swing can be powered just by the weight shift and body turn.

Check out this screen shot from the book where he says that. Anyways, this is what has worked for me.

billh17 · June 11, 2015

You'er a 4 HC.........and you think you don't have a repeatable swing.....

man...just go play golf and enjoy...you're way ahead of most people that have played for years....

no criticism from me....wish I had your swing !

Dent · June 11, 2015

[quote name='straightshot7' timestamp='1434048547' post='11733430']
[quote name='Dent' timestamp='1434044476' post='11732960']
[quote name='straightshot7' timestamp='1434005275' post='11730380']Looks pretty good, nice swing.

One thing I notice right away is your take away. This may be something unique to yourself that works for you, but that little forward press move and then the immediate takeaway with the hands, is too handsy in my opinion

I'd like to see you have a smooth, one piece takeaway combining a slight weight shift back, and turning of hips/shoulders together. Starting the swing off that handsy makes things more difficult for you.[/quote]

I absolutely agree. The biggest problem for me is my hands. I use a baseball grip so my hands have so much free reign to move around. The biggest confusion in my swing right now is I'm just not sure what my hands should be doing in the swing. Primarily on the downswing I can sometimes feel my hands and forearms starting the downswing.

I guess the hand movement at the beginning is an effort to get my hands over the ball and my trigger.

Any ideas of how else I can get my hands over the ball/shaft lean? Whenever I immediately address the ball I'm always behind it.
[/quote]

Yes I noticed you setup with your hands slightly behind the ball, before you perform the forward press.

I'm not a professional instructor so one might have a better answer for you...but it looks like your left wrist may be slightly bowed when you first setup with your hands behind the ball?

I have always just naturally setup with my hands in the normal position, so I'm not sure what's causing you to setup with them behind the ball. Try softening your wrist and letting your hands hang naturally?

My instructor in college once recommended I read a book by George Knudson called "The Natural Golf Swing". George Knudson is the Canadian player who studied Hogan and had an excellent swing, winning a couple times on tour.

Anyways, one of the biggest things I learned in that book is the idea that the hands and arms just hold onto the club---that it is your weight shift and turn that should be driving force in the swing.

You make a motion to the target, and the ball just gets in the way.

If you don't manipulate the grip (clubface), the clubface stays square to the target the entire swing.

When I adopted this philosophy my ball striking became a lot better because I never have to worry about the clubface being square to the ball, because I don't manipulate the club at all with my hands.

My hands feel fairly passive. It is my weight shift, turn,pivot, etc. that is powering the swing while my hands are just kind of hanging.

I would try softening your hands and arms and hit a lot of small practice swings where you feel like the hands and arms are just along for the ride, to get the feeling that they aren't the driving force in the swing.
[/quote]

I like this idea. Thanks! I've always been pretty firm with the arms and hands, but I always get so much thought into my head about turning the hands over through the swing that I think I over emphasize it and flip my hands at the ball sometimes. So realistically, if I limited my hand and arm motion and pulled the club back and through without moving much, (Kind of like a Speith looking swing type maybe) and use the shoulders to drive through the ball, this would be more accurate to what I should try and achieve?

straightshot7 · June 11, 2015

[quote name='Dent' timestamp='1434049171' post='11733492']
[quote name='straightshot7' timestamp='1434048547' post='11733430']
[quote name='Dent' timestamp='1434044476' post='11732960']
[quote name='straightshot7' timestamp='1434005275' post='11730380']Looks pretty good, nice swing.

One thing I notice right away is your take away. This may be something unique to yourself that works for you, but that little forward press move and then the immediate takeaway with the hands, is too handsy in my opinion

I'd like to see you have a smooth, one piece takeaway combining a slight weight shift back, and turning of hips/shoulders together. Starting the swing off that handsy makes things more difficult for you.[/quote]

I absolutely agree. The biggest problem for me is my hands. I use a baseball grip so my hands have so much free reign to move around. The biggest confusion in my swing right now is I'm just not sure what my hands should be doing in the swing. Primarily on the downswing I can sometimes feel my hands and forearms starting the downswing.

I guess the hand movement at the beginning is an effort to get my hands over the ball and my trigger.

Any ideas of how else I can get my hands over the ball/shaft lean? Whenever I immediately address the ball I'm always behind it.
[/quote]

Yes I noticed you setup with your hands slightly behind the ball, before you perform the forward press.

I'm not a professional instructor so one might have a better answer for you...but it looks like your left wrist may be slightly bowed when you first setup with your hands behind the ball?

I have always just naturally setup with my hands in the normal position, so I'm not sure what's causing you to setup with them behind the ball. Try softening your wrist and letting your hands hang naturally?

My instructor in college once recommended I read a book by George Knudson called "The Natural Golf Swing". George Knudson is the Canadian player who studied Hogan and had an excellent swing, winning a couple times on tour.

Anyways, one of the biggest things I learned in that book is the idea that the hands and arms just hold onto the club---that it is your weight shift and turn that should be driving force in the swing.

You make a motion to the target, and the ball just gets in the way.

If you don't manipulate the grip (clubface), the clubface stays square to the target the entire swing.

When I adopted this philosophy my ball striking became a lot better because I never have to worry about the clubface being square to the ball, because I don't manipulate the club at all with my hands.

My hands feel fairly passive. It is my weight shift, turn,pivot, etc. that is powering the swing while my hands are just kind of hanging.

I would try softening your hands and arms and hit a lot of small practice swings where you feel like the hands and arms are just along for the ride, to get the feeling that they aren't the driving force in the swing.
[/quote]

I like this idea. Thanks! I've always been pretty firm with the arms and hands, but I always get so much thought into my head about turning the hands over through the swing that I think I over emphasize it and flip my hands at the ball sometimes. So realistically, if I limited my hand and arm motion and pulled the club back and through without moving much, (Kind of like a Speith looking swing type maybe) and use the shoulders to drive through the ball, this would be more accurate to what I should try and achieve?
[/quote]

Yeah it sounds like your hands are overactive. You want to be fairly soft in the hands and they will turn over naturally. Read what I added above about swinging the club just by your weight shift and body turn, without doing anything conscious with the hands and arms. I can't explain it to you fully, if you want to invest in that book it does a great job. But, you will feel it when you are practicing. You will start to feel and see how just by a good weight shift and body turn (turn your belly button), and weight shift back to the front foot, you can swing the club without even using your hands. You will see how the ball flies straight effortlessly. It's like "giving up control to gain control". Give up control with your hands to gain more control in the end.

Dent · June 16, 2015

[quote name='straightshot7' timestamp='1434049735' post='11733554'][quote name='Dent' timestamp='1434049171' post='11733492']
[quote name='straightshot7' timestamp='1434048547' post='11733430']
[quote name='Dent' timestamp='1434044476' post='11732960']
[quote name='straightshot7' timestamp='1434005275' post='11730380']Looks pretty good, nice swing.

One thing I notice right away is your take away. This may be something unique to yourself that works for you, but that little forward press move and then the immediate takeaway with the hands, is too handsy in my opinion

I'd like to see you have a smooth, one piece takeaway combining a slight weight shift back, and turning of hips/shoulders together. Starting the swing off that handsy makes things more difficult for you.[/quote]

I absolutely agree. The biggest problem for me is my hands. I use a baseball grip so my hands have so much free reign to move around. The biggest confusion in my swing right now is I'm just not sure what my hands should be doing in the swing. Primarily on the downswing I can sometimes feel my hands and forearms starting the downswing.

I guess the hand movement at the beginning is an effort to get my hands over the ball and my trigger.

Any ideas of how else I can get my hands over the ball/shaft lean? Whenever I immediately address the ball I'm always behind it.
[/quote]

Yes I noticed you setup with your hands slightly behind the ball, before you perform the forward press.

I'm not a professional instructor so one might have a better answer for you...but it looks like your left wrist may be slightly bowed when you first setup with your hands behind the ball?

I have always just naturally setup with my hands in the normal position, so I'm not sure what's causing you to setup with them behind the ball. Try softening your wrist and letting your hands hang naturally?

My instructor in college once recommended I read a book by George Knudson called "The Natural Golf Swing". George Knudson is the Canadian player who studied Hogan and had an excellent swing, winning a couple times on tour.

Anyways, one of the biggest things I learned in that book is the idea that the hands and arms just hold onto the club---that it is your weight shift and turn that should be driving force in the swing.

You make a motion to the target, and the ball just gets in the way.

If you don't manipulate the grip (clubface), the clubface stays square to the target the entire swing.

When I adopted this philosophy my ball striking became a lot better because I never have to worry about the clubface being square to the ball, because I don't manipulate the club at all with my hands.

My hands feel fairly passive. It is my weight shift, turn,pivot, etc. that is powering the swing while my hands are just kind of hanging.

I would try softening your hands and arms and hit a lot of small practice swings where you feel like the hands and arms are just along for the ride, to get the feeling that they aren't the driving force in the swing.
[/quote]

I like this idea. Thanks! I've always been pretty firm with the arms and hands, but I always get so much thought into my head about turning the hands over through the swing that I think I over emphasize it and flip my hands at the ball sometimes. So realistically, if I limited my hand and arm motion and pulled the club back and through without moving much, (Kind of like a Speith looking swing type maybe) and use the shoulders to drive through the ball, this would be more accurate to what I should try and achieve?
[/quote]

Yeah it sounds like your hands are overactive. You want to be fairly soft in the hands and they will turn over naturally. Read what I added above about swinging the club just by your weight shift and body turn, without doing anything conscious with the hands and arms. I can't explain it to you fully, if you want to invest in that book it does a great job. But, you will feel it when you are practicing. You will start to feel and see how just by a good weight shift and body turn (turn your belly button), and weight shift back to the front foot, you can swing the club without even using your hands. You will see how the ball flies straight effortlessly. It's like "giving up control to gain control". Give up control with your hands to gain more control in the end.[/quote]

Thought a lot about this lately as well as trying to limit that forward press like you mentioned. After being so fed up with what my hands were doing in the swing I decided to go back to experimenting with different grips. I don't think I mentioned this but I actually use a baseball grip.

Today at the range I went a full range session with the overlap grip. My takeaway felt much better; much less forward press and felt much more one piece. Eureka! My swing just finally made sense to me and I have no thoughts of what my hands were doing. My contact and consistency improved dramatically which is what I'm most excited about.

Here is my swing today. Pretty much the same but now as I felt much more in control today I'm curious about what my weight shift is like? I felt like I was really on the heels of my feet in a lot of shots but equally weighted on both feet in the back and downswing.

Can you spot anything here?

[URL]https://vimeo.com/130939559[/URL]

DTL

[URL]https://vimeo.com/130939598[/URL]