Swing advice

[RoyalTroon]

2 hours ago, aaronjohnston said:

yea i grip lead hand while holding shaft in the air with right hand. So the shaft lean isn't an issue here?

 

That part about shaft lean was not clear to me in the post that you mentioned it that's why I didn't quote it.   It sounds like you're doing fine holding it in the air as you are.  

 

 I would guess as time goes on you'll place the left hand on club while club head is on the ground just by feel,  then lift club face to eye level to place the right hand on and if needed a tiny adjustment of left hand to maintain the hand by side relationship with a perpendicular first groove while club is in the air.  When I do this the lead wrist is cupped, or set down, or cocked,  whatever you call it while at eye level and that cupped relationship goes back to the ground once the right hand is placed.     I'm not totally sure if you mean shaft lean at address or at the strike.

 

Edited May 13, 2023 by BALLYBUNION

[aaronjohnston]

10 minutes ago, BALLYBUNION said:

 

That part about shaft lean was not clear to me in the post that you mentioned it that's why I didn't quote it.   It sounds like you're doing fine holding it in the air as you are.  

 

 I would guess as time goes on you'll place the left hand on club while club head is on the ground just by feel,  then lift club face to eye level to place the right hand on and if needed a tiny adjustment of left hand to maintain the hand by side relationship with a perpendicular first groove while club is in the air.  When I do this the lead wrist is cupped, or set down, or cocked,  whatever you call it while at eye level and that cupped relationship goes back to the ground once the right hand is placed.     I'm not totally sure if you mean shaft lean at address or at the strike.

 

 

So this my 6 iron at address with that new grip

 

[RoyalTroon]

I would recommend the anatomical snuff box line up straight down shaft center-line with first groove perpendicular to horizon.  What you've shown is a stronger left hand hold than what I suggest. 

[aaronjohnston]

24 minutes ago, BALLYBUNION said:

I would recommend the anatomical snuff box line up straight down shaft center-line with first groove perpendicular to horizon.  What you've shown is a stronger left hand hold than what I suggest. 

 

This is how Mike Malaska showed how to grip. Hang hands down and whichever way the wrist hangs naturally matches how you would grip club with left hand. 

 

This grip business is extremely confusing, there is sooooo many ways I have encountered and still i find it difficult to return the clubface square. I'm not a fan of the rotation of the wrists to square as it's way too inconsistent.

 

 

Edited May 13, 2023 by aaronjohnston

[RoyalTroon]

3 hours ago, aaronjohnston said:

This is how Mike Malaska showed how to grip. Hang hands down and whichever way the wrist hangs naturally matches how you would grip club with left hand.

 

On the video I liked MM's palm orientations not being perfectly opposing- there is some wiggle room on the angle of the right hand though.  

 

However, I would suspect he does not have a natural arm drape (palm orientation) as strong as what you've depicted his lead hand grip has.  My experience has been most everyone's palms are about 45 degrees inward from the fundamental arm orientation, not the anatomical arm orientation.  You'll have to search more photos of MM being relaxed and view his arm drape- side and front views.    Here is just one, and it's probably spot on at 45. 

 

Edited May 13, 2023 by BALLYBUNION

[aaronjohnston]

7 minutes ago, BALLYBUNION said:

 

On the video I liked MM's palm orientations not being perfectly opposing- there is some wiggle room on the angle of the right hand though.  

 

However, I would suspect he does not have a natural arm drape (palm orientation) as strong as what you've depicted his lead hand grip has.  My experience has been most everyone's palms are about 45 degrees inward from the fundamental arm orientation, not the anatomical arm orientation.  You'll have to search more photos of MM being relaxed and view his arm drape- side and front views.    Here is just one, and it's probably spot on at 45. 

 

 

He refers it to the arms hanging at address position. So not as you can see here down by side, but at address.

[RoyalTroon]

Sounds like he's simply taking the natural drape of the arm from the side and moving the entire package undisturbed over to in front of him in the address position, which is perfectly fine.  Don't know a whole lot about MM, but sounds correct.  Your portrayal of that orientation appears too strong at first glance, it might be camera angle but maybe not.  To find out, go to address, remove trail hand without disturbing left hand.   Then just drop the club from the left hand to the ground without moving the hand orientation in space.  Next move the entire arm AS IS to by your side and then super relax the arm and try to sense if the left arm rotates fractionally counter clockwise.   

Edited May 13, 2023 by BALLYBUNION

[GoGoErky]

3 hours ago, aaronjohnston said:

 

This is how Mike Malaska showed how to grip. Hang hands down and whichever way the wrist hangs naturally matches how you would grip club with left hand. 

 

This grip business is extremely confusing, there is sooooo many ways I have encountered and still i find it difficult to return the clubface square. I'm not a fan of the rotation of the wrists to square as it's way too inconsistent.

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, aaronjohnston said:

 

He refers it to the arms hanging at address position. So not as you can see here down by side, but at address.

AMG does a good job with how to grip

 

Also Monte’s grip and fundamentals video on rebelliongolf is another good one

[aaronjohnston]

33 minutes ago, BALLYBUNION said:

Sounds like he's simply taking the natural drape of the arm from the side and moving the entire package undisturbed over to in front of him in the address position, which is perfectly fine.  Don't know a whole lot about MM, but sounds correct.  Your portrayal of that orientation appears too strong at first glance, it might be camera angle but maybe not.  To find out, go to address, remove trail hand without disturbing left hand.   Then just drop the club from the left hand to the ground without moving the hand orientation in space.  Next move the entire arm AS IS to by your side and then super relax the arm and try to sense if the left arm rotates fractionally counter clockwise.   

 

So what he does is let the arms hang down in front of him in a relaxed address position. Both hands are pointing out in front of him with palms towards his waist line. It would be the same position as letting go of the club at address and allowing hands to hang in front of you, so hands aren't by his side like in the picture above, but in front of him hanging naturally. 

Here is a video of my grip. Will try to re-enact what you have asked me to perform here lol.

[aaronjohnston]

36 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

 

AMG does a good job with how to grip

 

Also Monte’s grip and fundamentals video on rebelliongolf is another good one

Thank you for this! Will watch these now

[RoyalTroon]

14 hours ago, aaronjohnston said:

Thank you for this! Will watch these now

 

Either one Malaska or AMG are basically about the same, just different explanation details although I will say while not the biggest fan of either instruction portal the AMG grip video had some nice drills at the end. 

 

For you pay special attention to their use of tees securing the connection between thumb and index finger knuckle area on both hands- something that Hogan spoke about, it's pretty important.

 

This is really about a five minute demonstration live so if you can't sort this out maybe pay a visit to your local pro.  Here's a picture of a normal arm drape, left arm, for I'm guessing 90% of the worlds population just from my experience.    Bring the entire show just like it is over to the middle, same with the other hand.   Good luck.

 

Edited May 14, 2023 by BALLYBUNION

[GoGoErky]

15 hours ago, aaronjohnston said:

 

He refers it to the arms hanging at address position. So not as you can see here down by side, but at address.

i didn’t hear anything in his video about hanging at address.

 

13 minutes ago, BALLYBUNION said:

This is really about a five minute demonstration live so if you can't sort this out maybe pay a visit to your local pro.  Here's a picture of a normal arm drape, left arm, for I'm guessing 90% of the worlds population just from my experience.    Bring the entire show just like it is over to the middle, same with the other hand.   Good luck.

Agree and Milo and Henry Fall talk about the same with how the arm hangs. Milo was under Malaska

[aaronjohnston]

46 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

i didn’t hear anything in his video about hanging at address.

 

Agree and Milo and Henry Fall talk about the same with how the arm hangs. Milo was under Malaska

 

It was in another one of Malaska's videos he showed that part I'm talking about, which i can't find again lol.

 

Seen Milo talk in another video and he seems very switched on also.

[aaronjohnston]

1 hour ago, BALLYBUNION said:

 

Either one Malaska or AMG are basically about the same, just different explanation details although I will say while not the biggest fan of either instruction portal the AMG grip video had some nice drills at the end. 

 

For you pay special attention to their use of tees securing the connection between thumb and index finger knuckle area on both hands- something that Hogan spoke about, it's pretty important.

 

This is really about a five minute demonstration live so if you can't sort this out maybe pay a visit to your local pro.  Here's a picture of a normal arm drape, left arm, for I'm guessing 90% of the worlds population just from my experience.    Bring the entire show just like it is over to the middle, same with the other hand.   Good luck.

 

 

 

What is your choice of Instruction portal by the way?

 

Thank you also for giving me these pointers. I have just noticed in this process, my grips are too small for my hands as the but of my left palm is sitting on top of all my fingers. Midsize regrip I think I need.

[RoyalTroon]

1 hour ago, aaronjohnston said:

What is your choice of Instruction portal by the way?

 

I enjoy several different sites but am biased toward those with instruction and insights from actual PGA touring professionals.  Beyond that there are, in general,  some real dump sites  that I won't mention by name

 

Malaska and AMG are fine and as a beginner one can't get too far off track with either one.   But here is the often not repeated bottom line.  No one can teach you a golf swing, you have to learn it yourself.  Good teachers help you stay on a path that doesn't waste too much of your time or theirs. 

Edited May 14, 2023 by BALLYBUNION

[Zitlow]

Your right palm should mirror the clubface. 

 

 

Brooks Koepka

 

 

[aaronjohnston]

31 minutes ago, BALLYBUNION said:

 

I enjoy several different sites but am biased toward those with instruction and insights from actual PGA touring professionals.  Beyond that there are, in general,  some real dump sites  that I won't mention by name

 

Malaska and AMG are fine and as a beginner one can't get too far off track with either one.   But here is the often not repeated bottom line.  No one can teach you a golf swing, you have to learn it yourself.  Good teachers help you stay on a path that doesn't waste too much of your time or theirs. 

Yea I hear you. I know where you are coming from in regards to those using PGA tour guys as their blueprints and that somehow we all have to be doing what they do. 

 

I'm noticing the anatomy of my hands aren't like most people's the V they speak of that are formed when left thumb touches the side of the index finger isn't forming for me on my left hand at all. It goes into another position than that of the traditional V

[GungHoGolf]

Grip looks decent, lead hand is on the strong side, but you might consider trimming your nails. My hands would be a bloody mess after a session if my nails were that long, so perhaps you’re not gripping the club firmly enough because of them:

 

[aaronjohnston]

1 minute ago, Zitlow said:

Your right palm should mirror the clubface. 

 

 

Brooks Koepka

 

 

Wouldn't this require me to rotate wrists through impact?

[aaronjohnston]

1 minute ago, GungHoGolf said:

Grip looks decent, lead hand is on the strong side, but you might consider trimming your nails. My hands would be a bloody mess after a session if my nails were that long, so perhaps you’re not gripping the club firmly enough because of them:

 

Yea I'm right on that today lol, i'm pretty lazy at the moment in regards to cutting them.

[GoGoErky]

3 minutes ago, aaronjohnston said:

Wouldn't this require me to rotate wrists through impact?

If you listened to the malaska video your right hand is the club face. Your right hand isn’t mirroring the club face so you are going to be fighting the club.  

[RoyalTroon]

7 minutes ago, GungHoGolf said:

Grip looks decent, lead hand is on the strong side, but you might consider trimming your nails. My hands would be a bloody mess after a session if my nails were that long...

 

Glad you mentioned that, I wasn't about to.  I don't wear gloves and same here with the blood mess.

[aaronjohnston]

4 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

If you listened to the malaska video your right hand is the club face. Your right hand isn’t mirroring the club face so you are going to be fighting the club.  

I've watched at least 10 on grip with Malaska and he shows you the motion of your right hand. Again there is lots of confusing do this, don't do that in regards to the grip. If I move my right more under like Kopeka i lose my swing plane.

[GoGoErky]

20 minutes ago, aaronjohnston said:

I've watched at least 10 on grip with Malaska and he shows you the motion of your right hand. Again there is lots of confusing do this, don't do that in regards to the grip. If I move my right more under like Kopeka i lose my swing plane.

Your swing plane in the initial video is already off. You started a thread looking for advice and everytime someone posts advice you have some sort of reply that questions the advice or that is causes some issues in the swing.

 

What you should do is take the advice and try to apply it and post videos of you trying the advice and get feedback.

 

As for the comment about confusion about grip about what to do and what not to do, I have not come across that in all of the videos I’ve seen from a number on instructors. It’s all pretty much the same info and many use the same drills to set the grip

[Mark38]

You are standing up in the backswing.  Your head should not have much if any up and down movement during the swing.   Watch some golf today and notice the lack of  head movement.  

[aaronjohnston]

44 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

Your swing plane in the initial video is already off. You started a thread looking for advice and everytime someone posts advice you have some sort of reply that questions the advice or that is causes some issues in the swing.

 

What you should do is take the advice and try to apply it and post videos of you trying the advice and get feedback.

 

As for the comment about confusion about grip about what to do and what not to do, I have not come across that in all of the videos I’ve seen from a number on instructors. It’s all pretty much the same info and many use the same drills to set the grip

 

Of course I'm going to question advice and giving feedback in the process, that is what is a natural occurrence unless there is some ulterior motive going on. I'm going to question EVERYTHING. Hence why I'm here asking questions. And as you can see I've had plenty of discussion with those giving me advice.

 

I've come across many different opinions on the grip, lots and lots in fact. But that is besides the point. I'm working on it and I'm questioning everything including everything someone tells me. How am I supposed to learn otherwise.

[aaronjohnston]

39 minutes ago, Mark38 said:

You are standing up in the backswing.  Your head should not have much if any up and down movement during the swing.   Watch some golf today and notice the lack of  head movement.  

 

Yea big time, posture and the way im moving my hips has been highlighted as the cause so far. I've mad changes to that and already noticed a massive improvement.

[aaronjohnston]

The one thing I can see throughout these teachings on the grip is that very few coaches are mentioning the fact that the grip is very much about how it aligns with our joints. The anatomy isn't taken into account. It's just assume that everyone will be gripping it that way and everyone will benefit from that particular way.

[RoyalTroon]

19 minutes ago, aaronjohnston said:

The one thing I can see throughout these teachings on the grip is that very few coaches are mentioning the fact that the grip is very much about how it aligns with our joints. The anatomy isn't taken into account. It's just assume that everyone will be gripping it that way and everyone will benefit from that particular way.

 

Usually standard play on a golf forum where almost everything is discussed as all things being equal unless an OP declares a condition falling outside that norm which will branch the discussion off in different directions and suggestions.  Nothing really new there. 

 

Anatomy is a big part too and not overlooked just sometimes prevents the discussion from going into the deep weeds.  For instance, the club actually connects to the arms, via the grip, so arm orientation in space and anatomy is important.  

Edited May 14, 2023 by BALLYBUNION

[GoGoErky]

13 minutes ago, aaronjohnston said:

The one thing I can see throughout these teachings on the grip is that very few coaches are mentioning the fact that the grip is very much about how it aligns with our joints. The anatomy isn't taken into account. It's just assume that everyone will be gripping it that way and everyone will benefit from that particular way.

Everyone pretty much says how your lead arm hangs that’s accounting for your anatomy. 
 

Then the right hand goes on with the palm on the side of the grip. Only person that really is teaching something different with trail hand is Mike adams.

 

27 minutes ago, aaronjohnston said:

 

Of course I'm going to question advice and giving feedback in the process, that is what is a natural occurrence unless there is some ulterior motive going on. I'm going to question EVERYTHING. Hence why I'm here asking questions. And as you can see I've had plenty of discussion with those giving me advice.

 

I've come across many different opinions on the grip, lots and lots in fact. But that is besides the point. I'm working on it and I'm questioning everything including everything someone tells me. How am I supposed to learn otherwise.

You asking questions but aren’t trying to implement any of the information you are given. At some point you are either going to have to try the advice you are giving and get feedback on whether you are doing it right and/or if anything is improving or choose to move on and either go with anyone of the various free or paid teaching sites or go to an in person instructor. The latter is probably your best option