T100 2° Weak vs T150

[MarkBoulder]

Hello, I was fit into T100 today and loved the feel, consistency and looks of them. The main issue was from my swing... low dynamic loft which resulted in lower spin (~5,100-5,500 for 7). So the fitter recommended that I order them 2° weak. 

 

So, what would be the difference between a 2° weak T100 at 36° and a normal 36° T150 8 iron?

 

Assuming I adjusted the length and lie correctly, and am fine with the resultant higher swing weight in the T150, would there be any difference in launch, spin, ballspeed etc? 

 

I've read that the T150's are more forgiving. Would going the T150 route theoretically help me tighten up my dispersion?

 

What about bounce and offset difference with going 2° weak on the T100's.  Would the difference even be noticeable?

 

Which way would should I go?

 

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

[CTgamer]

Only you can say which way you should go, ideally after some trial-and-error to look at strike quality, turf interaction, consistency, etc. - but to answer the more mechanical questions: 

 

-T100 and T150 have the same bounce per numbered iron (7i for example). 
-T150 are 2* stronger club for club (32* 7i vs 34* T100)

-In the 7i to 3i, T150 has a small cavity behind the face (Titleist calls this a muscle channel) which should slightly increase ball speed, improve forgiveness on off center hits, slightly increase launch, and lower spin relative to T100

-If you bend a T100 2* weak, you will increase bounce by 2* (and reduce offset slightly)
-To play a T150 8i at the same length as a T100 7i, it will generally be a heavier swing weight (roughly 3 points assuming no other changes)

 

If you play in wet conditions or have a steeper AoA, the extra bounce may help you. That said, I’ve also found the T100/T150 to get slower through the turf when bent weak, so you might want to confirm turf interaction with a test club. 

 

As far as whether T150 would improve dispersion, hard to say. The forgiveness may help, but you said you’re already a low spin player, and the T150 will likely reduce spun a bit which could hurt control. 
 

I personally play T150 bent 2* weak to remove offset (so they’re equivalent to stock T100 lofts), and that may be something to consider. With the adjustment, I find they launch higher and spin about the same as T100 at the same loft. It would also allow you to keep the same distances and gappings from the fitting, as opposed to bending T100 weak and playing 1/2 club shorter. 
 

YMMV, hope that helped 

 

[mizuno player]

The 150's aren't just 2* stronger I don't believe. They are designed to also launch higher and spin less?  So the fitter may have seen something in your swing that makes the 100 2 weaker a better fit than the stock 150. I would ask. 

 

You will also have less offset all with the bounce difference. If that matters to you. But I would ask him.  

[MarkBoulder]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply!

 

I'm curious why they would spin less if they're the same loft.

 

I read that these irons (and most) have a progressive design and was thinking (maybe more likely hoping) that the 8 iron T150 would have at least the same or a slightly higher CoG and that would increase spin. 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, CTgamer said:

... The T150 will likely reduce spin a bit which could hurt control. 

 

 

[CTgamer]

20 minutes ago, MarkBoulder said:

Thanks for the thoughtful reply!

 

I'm curious why they would spin less if they're the same loft.

 

I read that these irons (and most) have a progressive design and was thinking (maybe more likely hoping) that the 8 iron T150 would have at least the same or a slightly higher CoG and that would increase spin. 

 

 

 

I think you’re right about the progressive CG but I couldn’t say what that will do to spin compared to a T100 bent weak. My guess is the effect is minimal, or at the very least overshadowed by other more important parameters. 
 

To the spin question, someone can probably explain this more technically than I can, but long story short: because the face flexes a little bit, the ball rebounds and launches up rather than rolling/spinning up the face. It’s the same principle that causes harder golf balls to spin more than softer golf balls. 
 

Iirc T150 is supposed to spin about 150-200 rpm less and launch 1* higher than T100 club for club. Not totally sure how you’d compare across 7i vs 8i, probably just need to hit them and test

[Gohigh]

Im confused... Do you mean bend the T100 2 degrees weaker, so that 7 T100 would essentially be same loft as T150 8 iron? 

 

I have both sets and have tested both extensively, and also coming from 2021 set of T100S and T100 so I could probably help but confused about what you are asking specifically... and why it would change swing weight. 

[MarkBoulder]

41 minutes ago, CTgamer said:

I think you’re right about the progressive CG but I couldn’t say what that will do to spin compared to a T100 bent weak. My guess is the effect is minimal, or at the very least overshadowed by other more important parameters. 
 

To the spin question, someone can probably explain this more technically than I can, but long story short: because the face flexes a little bit, the ball rebounds and launches up rather than rolling/spinning up the face. It’s the same principle that causes harder golf balls to spin more than softer golf balls. 
 

Iirc T150 is supposed to spin about 150-200 rpm less and launch 1* higher than T100 club for club. Not totally sure how you’d compare across 7i vs 8i, probably just need to hit them and test

Interesting! Where did you see that?

 

[MarkBoulder]

28 minutes ago, Gohigh said:

Im confused... Do you mean bend the T100 2 degrees weaker, so that 7 T100 would essentially be same loft as T150 8 iron? 

 

I have both sets and have tested both extensively, and also coming from 2021 set of T100S and T100 so I could probably help but confused about what you are asking specifically... and why it would change swing weight. 

Exactly. My fitter suggested going 2° weaker in T100. That would make it the same loft as a T150 8 iron. 

 

I'm thinking that if the 8 iron would then give me the same spin, launch, ballspeed etc.. as a 36° 7 iron T150. I should just go with the T150's instead of the weaker T100's as they have a little more forgiveness. I would just go 6-GW in T150 vs 5-PW in T100. The numbers on the bottom of the clubs would be different, but I'd hit them the same.... Right?

 

Swing weight would go up because I'd have to make the T150 8 iron 1/2" longer to be the same length as the T100 7 iron. 

[Pnwpingi210]

10 minutes ago, MarkBoulder said:

Exactly. My fitter suggested going 2° weaker in T100. That would make it the same loft as a T150 8 iron. 

 

I'm thinking that if the 8 iron would then give me the same spin, launch, ballspeed etc.. as a 36° 7 iron T150. I should just go with the T150's instead of the weaker T100's as they have a little more forgiveness. I would just go 6-GW in T150 vs 5-PW in T100. The numbers on the bottom of the clubs would be different, but I'd hit them the same.... Right?

 

Swing weight would go up because I'd have to make the T150 8 iron 1/2" longer to be the same length as the T100 7 iron. 

This is an interesting situation.

 

how far was the t100 7 (34-36 degree lofted club) iron flying?  How far do you want your 7 iron to fly?

 

what shaft where you hitting?

 

the t100 is a traditionally lofted iron, it’s also one of the highest spinning heads in its category.  If you are low dynamic loft, a firm handled, soft tip shaft profile could help increase loft presented to the ball at inpact

 

 

Edited May 10 by Pnwpingi210

[MarkBoulder]

I'm in Colorado, so it carries a little farther....  The 34° T100 7 iron was carrying it 190-200 with a 90-92 club head speed on Trackman. My dynamic loft at ~20° was more like a 6 iron than seven iron.  

 

Honestly, I'm not that concerned with how far it carries. I'd be happier if I could just tighten up my distance control. I feel like if I could get a more consistent and higher spin and carry it 180-185, my scores would be better. 

 

Is that the right way to think about it?

 

 

Edited May 10 by MarkBoulder

[Pnwpingi210]

12 minutes ago, MarkBoulder said:

I'm in Colorado, so it carries a little farther....  The 34° T100 7 iron was carrying it 190-200 with a 90-92 club head speed on Trackman.

 

Honestly, I'm not that concerned with how far it carries. I'd be happier if I could just tighten up my distance control. I feel like if I could get a more consistent and higher spin and carry it 180-185, my scores would be better. 

 

Is that the right way to think about it?

 

 

I would say so.  Good information on the Colorado.  Maybe some of the experienced fitters could way in.

[Gohigh]

This is a very confusing situation... I understand you are trying to fit an iron into a number... 

 

If it was me, I would just try to find a different setup like ball or shaft if I was wanting to fine tune few hundred RPM spin and 10-15 ft of height.

 

If I had to do it one way or another, I would probably recommend getting T100 and bend it stronger not weaker. 

 

2021 versions felt like it had more trailing edge relief, but these new versions have a bit more meat back there... 

 

I worry bending it weak would create less than desirable turf interaction... 

[CTgamer]

40 minutes ago, MarkBoulder said:

Interesting! Where did you see that?

 

I thought I’d seen something in a forum thread as well, but this link might be helpful. I was a bit off with the numbers - looks like 1* in launch and ~750rpm spin between the models. 
 

https://golf.com/gear/irons/titleist-t-series-irons-robot-testing-analysis/?amp=1

 

A good rule of thumb is typically 750-1000rpm spin difference from iron to iron (7i —> 8i for example). Let’s assume 4* loft gaps, so bending the T100 2* weak might add 400-500rpm. That would take you to 5500-6000 rpm with slightly higher launch with T100. 
 

In contrast, let’s say T150 at stock loft would be ~4500rpm given your fitting experience. Going up 1 club to 8i might get you to 5250-5500rpm. 
 

Net net, even with both at 36*, T150 is probably still going to spin slightly less and launch a little higher than T100, but you’d have to hit them to be sure

[MarkBoulder]

I don't know that I'm trying to fit a number as much as I'm trying to compensate for how I deliver the club so I can get adequate spin to improve distance control. 

 

If I can turn that 20° dynamic loft into 22° by having 2° more loft on the club I'm hoping that helps me hit it more "normal".

 

You raise a good point on the turf interaction. I'm more of a sweeper than digger. Maybe I will notice that extra 2° of bounce.   Makes me lean more towards the T150...

 

Wouldn't going stronger just make my problem worse? 20° dynamic loft would be more like 18°, right?

 

 

[Pnwpingi210]

30 minutes ago, MarkBoulder said:

I don't know that I'm trying to fit a number as much as I'm trying to compensate for how I deliver the club so I can get adequate spin to improve distance control. 

 

If I can turn that 20° dynamic loft into 22° by having 2° more loft on the club I'm hoping that helps me hit it more "normal".

 

You raise a good point on the turf interaction. I'm more of a sweeper than digger. Maybe I will notice that extra 2° of bounce.   Makes me lean more towards the T150...

 

Wouldn't going stronger just make my problem worse? 20° dynamic loft would be more like 18°, right?

 

 

You could weaken the lofts and “probably” get where you need to be.

 

what shaft are you playing?  20 degrees of dynamic loft with a 34 7 iron is real low (as you mentioned).  

[MarkBoulder]

13 minutes ago, CTgamer said:

I thought I’d seen something in a forum thread as well, but this link might be helpful. I was a bit off with the numbers - looks like 1* in launch and ~750rpm spin between the models. 
 

https://golf.com/gear/irons/titleist-t-series-irons-robot-testing-analysis/?amp=1

 

A good rule of thumb is typically 750-1000rpm spin difference from iron to iron (7i —> 8i for example). Let’s assume 4* loft gaps, so bending the T100 2* weak might add 400-500rpm. That would take you to 5500-6000 rpm with slightly higher launch with T100. 
 

In contrast, let’s say T150 at stock loft would be ~4500rpm given your fitting experience. Going up 1 club to 8i might get you to 5250-5500rpm. 
 

Net net, even with both at 36*, T150 is probably still going to spin slightly less and launch a little higher than T100, but you’d have to hit them to be sure

Very good article. Thanks for sharing!

 

I like the way you're thinking about it. I suppose I should go hit the T150 to see what those 32° 7 iron spin numbers are and not assume. If they are that much less than I think you're right. For comparison, I hit my 2°weak Paradym 31° 7 iron at ~4-4,500, but that cg is a lot lower.  

 

[MarkBoulder]

5 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

You could weaken the lofts and “probably” get where you need to be.

 

what shaft are you playing?  20 degrees of dynamic loft with a 34 7 iron is real low (as you mentioned).  

Well, my dispersion was best with DG X100. We used the Mizuno fitter club and app and that's what it recommended as #1. My fitter said it was mostly because of my fast tempo. We tried some other shafts... #2, KBS tour launched higher, but didn't do much for spin. #3 Ctaper made me hit really straight lower spinning lower height bullets. Modus just didn't feel right. DG S300 made my over fade miss bigger. 

 

The one shaft that they didn't have that I'm intrigued by that they didn't have was Dynamic Gold Mid 130. I'm wondering if it's close enough to DG but can give me a little more spin. 

 

FWIW, Ventus Black 6X is in my driver, 7X in my 5W, and 9X HB is in my hybrid. I love the feel of Ventus Black and I'm better with it than anything else I've tried. 

[Pnwpingi210]

5 minutes ago, MarkBoulder said:

Well, my dispersion was best with DG X100. We used the Mizuno fitter club and app and that's what it recommended as #1. My fitter said it was mostly because of my fast tempo. We tried some other shafts... #2, KBS tour launched higher, but didn't do much for spin. #3 Ctaper made me hit really straight lower spinning lower height bullets. Modus just didn't feel right. DG S300 made my over fade miss bigger. 

 

The one shaft that they didn't have that I'm intrigued by that they didn't have was Dynamic Gold Mid 130. I'm wondering if it's close enough to DG but can give me a little more spin. 

 

FWIW, Ventus Black 6X is in my driver, 7X in my 5W, and 9X HB is in my hybrid. I love the feel of Ventus Black and I'm better with it than anything else I've tried. 

All of that makes sense.  Dg x100 is generally going to launch the lowest and produce a low dynamic loft number.

 

dg130 mid is similar to modus 130, tour v120, and to a lesser extent project x.  Might be worth trying a couple of those if you go back in to try a different head.

[MarkBoulder]

1 hour ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

This is an interesting situation.

 

how far was the t100 7 (34-36 degree lofted club) iron flying?  How far do you want your 7 iron to fly?

 

what shaft where you hitting?

 

the t100 is a traditionally lofted iron, it’s also one of the highest spinning heads in its category.  If you are low dynamic loft, a firm handled, soft tip shaft profile could help increase loft presented to the ball at inpact

 

 

 

That shaft description sounds like True Temper's description of DG Mid 130..right?

 

I've seen some good posts in here on that shaft. Wish it was more available to demo. Anyone have experience with it in T150/T100?

 

"Dynamic Gold Mid is designed to complement modern day equipment by utilizing a unique shaft geometry to create a stiffer mid-section with an active tip section to promote an increase in launch and spin when compared to other Dynamic Gold offerings in similar weight categories"

[CTgamer]

Fwiw, I also play Ventus Black 6x in driver and would not sleep on PX in irons. Will absolutely add launch relative to dynamic gold, but could reduce spin as well. Something like PX IO could be a middle ground. Either way, will feel more similar to Ventus Black than DG will imo.
 

Also don’t be afraid to go down in flex…I’m ~92 with 7i, ~110 with driver, and have played 5.0 hardstepped, 5.5, and 6.0 with success. For a low spin player, 5.0 and 5.5 hardstepped add launch without risk of ballooning or losing control, if the weight works for you

[MarkBoulder]

More research and I found these MPF measurements...

 

"A little More forgiveness"  of the T150 might be from the ~7% higher MOI

 

Vertical cg is slightly higher on T100, but probably closer once it's weakend.... Makes me think that the difference in launch and spin are really only from the loft difference.

 

Funny to see them both listed as game improvement irons 😀 

That's definitely what I'm hoping to see happen to my approach game!

Edited May 10 by MarkBoulder

[MarkBoulder]

3 minutes ago, CTgamer said:

Fwiw, I also play Ventus Black 6x in driver and would not sleep on PX in irons. Will absolutely add launch relative to dynamic gold, but could reduce spin as well. Something like PX IO could be a middle ground. Either way, will feel more similar to Ventus Black than DG will imo.
 

Also don’t be afraid to go down in flex…I’m ~92 with 7i, ~110 with driver, and have played 5.0 hardstepped, 5.5, and 6.0 with success. For a low spin player, 5.0 and 5.5 hardstepped add launch without risk of ballooning or losing control, if the weight works for you

Interesting... The fitter didn't suggest it and I didn't question it as I figured I couldn't swing everything. 

 

I'll definitely give it a try. 

 

Thanks! Great suggestion!