Working with new swing (rotary motion)

[tulkaz]

Update 5.8. (Slicefixer comment?)

I started this New-Swing-for-2008 -project last November(-07) and switched to pro who's teachings are based on Hogan's moves. Strong rotation of the hips and passive hands.

I have history of swinging with hands and my hips sliding in downswing so this hasn't been easy task for me. =) Now there has been some improvement in my swing which is positive, but still _FAR_ away from being good or even satisfactory. Still hips are sliding some and downswing is too steep to mention few problems.

Please watch and comment:

UPDATE 5.8.:

Was on the range yesterday with new camera (Casio EX-F1) and took some super slomo of my swing. Still got problems with my backswing (amongst other things...). It seems to be very difficult to get it more upright and preventing my left arm pressing on my chest during backswing.

Driver DTL:

5-iron DTL:

EDIT: My teacher here in Finland thinks exactly the same about swing as Slicefixer. Would be nice to get some comment from Slice.=)

[mainegolfa]

first off it looks pretty drn good. but, Looks to me like you're standing up a little to straight at address. this causes you to swing the club too much to the inside when you first start turning off the ball. this causes you to become disconnected with the arms in an effort to set the club. further, you're shoulders are turning on too flat a plane as a result of this posture, which means you can't fully engage your torso as the main power generater in the swing.

[ChrisM84]

Try winding more into your right side, without as much arm lift. Think of turning your core into your right side, feel that stretch, and then rotate hard back to the left.

[puppypilgrim]

If you try to hit pause on the frame just before your club makes contact with the ball in the 6 iron clip, you will see you have lost the angle coming into impact. This means you have no forward lean angle of the shaft at impact. This generates a high ball flight and a pick-it-clean off the mat ball contact which is one of the problems hittting off practice mats.

 

What is ideal is to practice off a grass range even if you have to drive further to access it.

 

Best instruction to cure this is Bobby Clampett's book The Impact Zone. Your shaft should have some forward lean coming into impact. This means it will take a divot after contact with the ball with the divot point being deepest around 4 inches after the start of the divot.

[puppypilgrim]

Your right hand is also "helping" the left coming into impact. Therefore, you have a lead wrist breakdown coming into impact where the right hand overcomes the lag and good angles that were stored with the left hand.

 

It other respects, your rhythm, tempo, fluidity all look good.

[dana dahlquist]

You must learn how to hit lowpoint. You have some throw away at the bottem. First work on the grip and teach your hands what they must feel from a small swing arena. From there you can work on the body pivot. This deal about the body being the full role on the swing is kinda second to teaching the hands what they must do.

[Jeff Evans]

Dana right on! One must educate their hands and learn to direct their lag, drag, and thrust along a delivery path to an aiming point.

 

Build your BASIC MOTIONS first!

[TEConnor]

I started this New-Swing-for-2008 -project last November(-07) and switched to pro who's teachings are based on Hogan's swing. Strong rotation of the hips and passive hands.

 

I have history of swinging with hands and my hips sliding in downswing so this hasn't been easy task for me. =) Now there has been some improvement in my swing which is positive, but still _FAR_ away from being good or even satisfactory. Still hips are sliding some and downswing is too steep to mention few problems.

 

Please watch and comment:

 

 

 

 

Nice swing.

 

A few things to work on:

1) keeping your arms more "in front." In the face-on videos, you can see that your arms get behind your body...like an exaggerated Jim Furyk at impact. This is not a horrible thing (some would call it a "good player" problem). But to be consistent in a rotary action and to reduce your need to get that right hand so active it would help to stay more connected with the arms more out in front of the body. A drill that helps me to get the feeling is to do a "baseball" type swing (you being Scandanavian probably minimizes the effectiveness of the metaphor a bit, so I'll explain). You swing the club back parallel to the ground at chest level. What you want to feel is your pectorals flexing a bit, the upper arms connected to them, and just observe the feeling of your hands and arms staying more "in front" of your torso through the backswing and impact (no need to take full swings...just poses and small motions). Additionally, you want to try the "glove under the armpit" drill whereby you place a towel or old glove up under your left armpit (all the way in) and take 3/4 swings without it falling out...feeling the connection I described above.

 

2) the early release of your right wrist. Others pointed it out, but that right hand is overactive through impact. It's becoming a cliche, but it really works: Slicefixer's 9:00 to 3:00 drill. When done properly this will help you understand what it feels like to really have the hands work together through impact. Practicing the 9:00 to 3:00 drill where you purposefully keep the right wrist "set" through impact will help a lot, I believe, in getting past this issue.

 

 

Your current swing is pretty darn good, in my opinion. I see you have some tendencies that can probably feel awkward, but I think you are NOT far off from having an exemplary rotary action. The right hand through impact is a problem now, but that will come around quickly I bet. Overall, I want to point out one very GOOD thing about your swing that I think you should remember, as not all people do this as well as you: the transition. At the top you have little to no "runoff" and this will help you a lot with the rotary swing. "Runoff" is where your arms keep moving back after you've completed the body turn...and it seems to be a common problem even for tour players attempting a rotary action. Keep doing that well!

 

Best of Luck,

Tim

[dfw1500]

You are setting up with your left hip too far back from your left shoulder which is causing you to make a lateral weight shift/slide in the 1st move and your wrists are rolling the club away too much....the slide causes the wrists to roll as this is generally happens when the hips slide......from here you are forced to drive your legs and you get the shaft attacking from too far underneath you and get the arms working away from the body on the way through up to a high finish that is disconnected and have got the right arm too straight which has caused you to loose the angle in the right wrist.

 

I setup get your lef hip higher than the right and get it in line with your left shoulder........I would have you hit balls with your feet together to help eliminate the lateral motion and also have you get the feeling of maintaing the angle you have created in the right wrist as you start the turn back and feel the butt of the club move closer to your right thigh as the toe stays on the target line using the 'box' drill...........I would also set a pole into the ground on the same angle as your spine and have you turn back and through around it making sure that you do not move off it and that you feel the butt of the club go low and left with the turn of the body and get the feeling that you keep the angle set in the right wrist and the right arm all the way through the impact......to help with the arm run off hit balls with a towel under your arms in the 9 to 3 and feel the club go left.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Cheers Dan

[tulkaz]

UPDATE:

 

Was on range today with camera. Still a lot of work left...

 

 

 

[scratchby2009]

Stewart Cink finish

[tulkaz]

Stewart Cink finish

 

That is strange really. I usually try to focus on a "complete" finish. Also that backswing is all wrong again. I have been working with it and seen some improvements. Will have to get to range again and try to get that to show on video also. =)

 

...amongst other things. :man_in_love:

[tulkaz]

UPDATE with some new video on first post. Still problems...

[Swingtheclub]

well I agree you get a shade flat

 

I would like to see you stand a little taller at address, I think this will help you get a tad more upright.

 

I am very curious about your ball flight how does it move left or right high or low

 

Overall a nice swing just you get a little crunched I think this causes a change of direction problem

[tulkaz]

Well currently this swing is not working as I would like. I have got it to work like 2 days at a time. Then the trajectory is low draw.

 

Most of the times it still don't work and trajectory is high fade and I'm losing 1-2 clubs in length. Ball remains still in play. Fairway hits are mostly +70% and actually 1-2 really missed drives per round.

 

Problem with me getting too flat on backswing is related on ball. So when I step behind ball and get ready to the swing, that flat backswing is unconscious attempt to get club "inside".

[TEConnor]

Looking better, that's certain. Your impact position with the 5-iron DTL is pretty nice...much, much better release. I still think your main issue is sucking the club back behind your body (ie, not keeping the arms, specifically the right arm, inside your hips well enough). Because you are pulling it back inside, really pulling that right arm behind the body, and getting your arms and core "out of synch" there is an element of timing involved with getting back to impact "together." This timing is likely introducing the frustration when it is not clicking well. You can definitely work with what you've got, and in fact, your swing looks remarkably similar to Miguel Angel Jimenez now in some key elements. However, I think for your consistency goals, keeping those arms in synch and in front would help immensely.

 

Good Work!

 

Tim

[63Brummie]

I started this New-Swing-for-2008 -project last November(-07) and switched to pro who's teachings are based on Hogan's swing. Strong rotation of the hips and passive hands.

 

I have history of swinging with hands and my hips sliding in downswing so this hasn't been easy task for me. =) Now there has been some improvement in my swing which is positive, but still _FAR_ away from being good or even satisfactory. Still hips are sliding some and downswing is too steep to mention few problems.

 

Please watch and comment:

 

 

 

 

 

 

UPDATE 5.8.:

 

Was on the range yesterday with new camera (Casio EX-F1) and took some super slomo of my swing. Still got problems with my backswing (amongst other things...). It seems to be very difficult to get it more upright and preventing my left arm pressing on my chest during backswing.

 

Driver DTL:

 

5-iron DTL:

 

 

I would be very wary of anyone who Lionises the swing of any of the "Individuals of the game"..

Ben Hogan's swing was very unique to him and a cautionary tale for the hook, even though you turn is good, I feel that getting your hands further away from your body would help to steepen the plane of your swing.

The reason Hogan had to cup his wrist was because his swing had quite a flat plane angle.

This being said you look like a pretty good athlete to me and will have no problem once your swing changes are locked in.

Has your pro given you drills to do?

63Brummie :rolleyes:

fairways and greens

[tulkaz]

I would be very wary of anyone who Lionises the swing of any of the "Individuals of the game"..

Ben Hogan's swing was very unique to him and a cautionary tale for the hook, even though you turn is good, I feel that getting your hands further away from your body would help to steepen the plane of your swing.

 

OK, bad wording. =) Should be: working on a swing based on Hogan-type of action. Or something similar. =)

 

 

Has your pro given you drills to do?

 

Not really...

 

He focuses more on that I would understand and feel the correct moves myself. So learning thru understanding and feel and he more leads me on the right track.

 

On last session with him I did hit the ball after a while very well. Like no bad shots at all. But after few days I lost that feel and fell on that what can be seen on video...

 

So some drills to work on that backswing and removing that lateral movement would be appreciated. =)

[Swingtheclub]

Well currently this swing is not working as I would like. I have got it to work like 2 days at a time. Then the trajectory is low draw.

 

Most of the times it still don't work and trajectory is high fade and I'm losing 1-2 clubs in length. Ball remains still in play. Fairway hits are mostly +70% and actually 1-2 really missed drives per round.

 

Problem with me getting too flat on backswing is related on ball. So when I step behind ball and get ready to the swing, that flat backswing is unconscious attempt to get club "inside".

 

 

I would make my back angle a little taller and work on width to get more upright

 

The thing is you get the club dead square at the top which is great but during the change of direction you fan it open

 

Look at the pictures you will see the toe go straight up to the air right at the change

 

Ken

[tulkaz]

The thing is you get the club dead square at the top which is great but during the change of direction you fan it open

 

Well Ken, I try to rotate the clubface open with right hand during the whole downswing. =)

 

While at the same time I am rotating with my lower body as much as I can this results the clubface to close and actually stay square longer through impact. That's really the whole point of my swing change. =)

[Swingtheclub]

Ok as long as you know you are doing it.

 

But Hogan never got the club square there for the big rotation to square the club

 

you get it dead square and need nothing more than a natural turn through your shot and maintaining width to square it

 

You get where I preach people should get 45 degrees (*square at the top) then you rotate to undo it.

 

Ok maybe I should just shut up but you are really making this game hard way to hard.

 

Ken

[Jeff Evans]

I would look at your hip motion and hip action. Hip Motion is the shifting of weight but not balacne while keeping your hips turned. Hip Action is the rotation of your hips.

I have notice referecnes to Ben Hogan and what a great motion to copy! Mr. Hogan refered to the start of the downswing and the hips in his modern fundamentals book on page 90 paragraph #3. "To begin the downswing, TURN YOUR HIPS BACK TO THE LEFT. THERE MUST BE ENOUGH LATERAL MOTION FORWARD TO TRANSFER THE WEIGHT TO THE LEFT FOOT." He made it sound like turn ones hips first but it is a lateral weight shift (HIP MOTION) first than the turn (HIP ACTION) second.

If the players hips spin first it throws the right forearm out bring the RF in to high and off the plane angle. You have a great motion clean up your HIP MOTION and HIP ACTION which will get your right forearm on the correct plane angle and should increase your ball height and ball curve to strainght with a draw.

[club face control]

IMO your top of backswing position is very weak which causes you to have throw.

[Jeff Evans]

IMO your top of backswing position is very weak which causes you to have throw.

 

Could you be more specific in regards to what is very weak and how it causes this individual to throw and what is he throwing; the club, his arms, his hands, or his shoulders or all of the mention?

[club face control]

IMO your top of backswing position is very weak which causes you to have throw.

 

Could you be more specific in regards to what is very weak and how it causes this individual to throw and what is he throwing; the club, his arms, his hands, or his shoulders or all of the mention?

 

 

Sure. I feel that he is to deep, and to flat at the top. It also looks like with his cupped left wrist the clubface is pretty open in his delivery position. IMO from his position at the top he throws the club, and loses his lag.

[Jeff Evans]

IMO your top of backswing position is very weak which causes you to have throw.

 

Could you be more specific in regards to what is very weak and how it causes this individual to throw and what is he throwing; the club, his arms, his hands, or his shoulders or all of the mention?

 

 

Sure. I feel that he is to deep, and to flat at the top. It also looks like with his cupped left wrist the clubface is pretty open in his delivery position. IMO from his position at the top he throws the club, and loses his lag.

 

Let's consider that he is to deep and flat at the top with a cupped left wrist and throws the club. Many great players maybe considered to deep and to flat at the top with cupped left wrist. Ben Hogan sticks out in my mind but Mr. Hogan also had a great start down. This player still has LAG because lag is defned as a trailing or a following condition. His arms are lagging his body, his hands are lagging his arms, and the club is lagging his hands. This player has LAG. However, this player maybe losing his Clubhead Lag Pressure which can be found on the first joint of ones trigger finger on his trail hand where it touches the grip and that is subjective and an unique "feel" from player to player. The reason it looks as if this player throws the club is because he has gone past the top of his motion to the end. He it trying to locate the his start down location which is at the height of his trail shoulder. He just missed it.

[tulkaz]

Well yes I have to work with my backswing, as mentioned earlier:

 

More upright, keep hands in front of the chest (keep left hand from pressing against chest) and work to remove that lateral movement on the beginning of backswing.

 

Also what is problem still is my followthrough. I pull the club too much to the left(inside) while there should be thought of throwing it to the right(outside).

 

But still I would appreciate tips or drill how to work with my backswing?

[63Brummie]

So some drills to work on that backswing and removing that lateral movement would be appreciated. =)

 

Nick Faldo has what he calls a pre-set drill which I have personally found very helpful as it deals with the position at the top and also striking the ball.

This drill was in his "Tips and Drills video"

I really like drills that are practical; they seem to make a lot more sense to me.

I'll try to get a video of it to you as it's a virtually fool proof (great for a fool like me ;) )....

63Brummie :rolleyes:

fairways and greens

P.S.

Part of the reason I feel that drills are important is the fact they keep your muscle memory in trim - and as any sportsman knows remembering movements is the bedrock of a good repeating action.