Home Golf Simulators

[Roger B]

Dead Solid Golf in Particular

I am adding on to my house and want to include a golf simulator/putting green area in the design. I am leaning towards the "dead solid golf" product because I think I can get it built for less than some of the other companies that I have talked to such as "about golf", "high definition golf" and "full swing golf". I also think that it looks like a better quality product than the "p3pro" product, and the "dead solid golf" simulator has been installed in both the Golf Magazine and the Golf Digest Dream Houses. However, I haven't actually used one yet. Does anybody have any experience with a dead solid golf simulator? How about any of the other models? Anyone who has installed one in their home who has tips or suggestions would be appreciated.

[oliversax]

I'm amazed (and disappointed) you haven't gotten any feedback on this question. I, too, am curious about putting in an indoor golf simulator. Since you already did some research, could you post a synopsis on the prices, features, and your opinion of each system? Thx.

[Roger B]

Dead Solid Golf has arranged to let me test one of their units in Orlando this weekend, so after I do that I will be in a better position to discuss the product. I am mainly concerned about 2 things: The first is that I haven't found any simulators except for the About Golf simulator that can measure ball spin. I am not sure how much this matters but I am certainly not getting it because the About Golf sim with ball spin is close to $60K installed. I am going to install myself and I am planning on spending $15K. Second, I am concerned I will be happy with the graphics. I think I will though, only an in person visit can determine that. I have used an About Golf sim at the PGA Superstore in Atlanta so I will be comparing it to that.

[Mtngolfer1]

I too am interested in this. Please provide feedback and pricing options when you have completed the visit. I am surprised someone here has not had any experience with these yet or has not replyed.

[Roger B]

gds,

I would like to speak with you about the golf sim. market. I am wondering: Why are these things so expensive? Take the full swing golf model for example; what about it is proprietary? The sensors? If that is all, I want to buy just the sensors. How much does it cost to update the old software? Can a person buy a really out of date system and bring it up to date cheaper than buying new? Also, I am a General Contractor and I can build it myself, so I am looking for the cheapest alternative. Ball spin too, it makes a difference, I know that the full swing can incorporate a launch monitor, but does it factor that in when you play the simulation?

[BigLeftyinAZ]

P3p is junk. I like the golf tek one the best.Have use the dead solid one and feel the golf tek is more accurate.Golf tek has also done testing between a few systems which you will find searching their site.

 

Roger b-gds,

I would like to speak with you about the golf sim. market. I am wondering: Why are these things so expensive? Take the full swing golf model for example; what about it is proprietary? The sensors? If that is all, I want to buy just the sensors. How much does it cost to update the old software? Can a person buy a really out of date system and bring it up to date cheaper than buying new? Also, I am a General Contractor and I can build it myself, so I am looking for the cheapest alternative. Ball spin too, it makes a difference, I know that the full swing can incorporate a launch monitor, but does it factor that in when you play the simulation?

 

 

Check this place out to build your own

 

simulators

[jakkim]

If you are going to use the simulator for actual practice rather then messing around with your friends you may want to consider getting a nice laptop, camera and a top of the line launch monitor like a Trackman or Zelocity. Both of these units use dopplar technology and are pretty much dead accurate. Plus you could then use the laptop and camera for other things as well...I think this would be significantly cheaper and more accurate.

[Simulator Man]

Full Swing Golf has proprietary sensors. If you buy a second hand Full Swing unit you will need to "re-certify " it. You will not get any service or parts without this recert. I have found that you would be better off buying a refurb from them than buying a 10 year old sim second hand and upgrading it to new specs. It is almost the same money. They are more $ than some others but as the old saying goes ......

Check out their website, the list of their clients is quite impressive, and to think that these people could have any system. My consensus is if you want commercial revenue ie pub,bowling alley etc. buy a less expensive system to boost profit margins. If you are a homeowner and can swing the buck for a more realistic, accurate simulator to help improve your game then Full Swing would be my choice.

 

My 2 cents.

[jwats]

Interesting thread. I think the key is what you intend to do with your practice time and what do you want out of your home setup.

If you want to play/simulate a round of golf but keep the costs low, P3 Proswing is probably fine. Problem with this unit is accuracy, sensor base (how often does it break or need replacement?) and do you want/need launch monitor type info.

I looked hard at GolfTek. For affordable sensor based technology with accuracy, I think they have a good product, but it costs 3x or more as much as P3. I think I used one of these at Dick's Sporting Goods in Birmingham, but that was before I was in the market for a home unit, so I didn't pay that much attention to the make.

They do have a simple build your own home simulator that looks good for $12,000. Again, I am a little concerned about sensor based units and the wear & tear of hitting off the sensor mat. I really wanted to hit off turf or my existing Fiberbuilt mat.

Next are radar based units. Trackman, Inflight, Zelocity. Trackman is great but very expensive. Over $20K for the indoor unit. Inflight looks good but still $8k for the indoor unit. Both provide lots of launch and spin date and a 2d side view of ball flight and 3d downrange view of golf range or hole. I think they are phased array doppler units. I demoed a Trackman at my local pro shop and it was great. I also hit on a P3 Proswing cage setup at the same shop. Fun but accuracy was suspect. They were selling their unit.

Zelocitys' Purelaunch is also radar based but from what I can read, its radar may be more basic than Trackman & Inflight. It has been called the poor man's Trackman. Unit sits 5 feet behind the tee and needs 10 feet in front of the tee to track ball flight and calculate performance based on data and algorithms. You can hit off grass outdoors or a mat indoors.

If you purchase a used unit, they will autheticate it, transfer ownership and purchase 1 year of software updates (& maybe service?) for $495.

Finally, there are full sims. About Golf apparently provides not only a golf sim but launch monitor info in their units. So I assume it is the best of both worlds. At one point I have seen it written that they work with Golftek and another site said they use Inflight technology.

Photo based launch monitors are another option. Vector units are available on Ebay most all the time and a Swing Dynamics unit recently sold on Ebay. I used a Swing Dynamics unit at a Calloway fitting in Las Vegas. Nice unit, good graphics display. Would have be great for a home virtual driving range, but the company is out of business. So there is that question.

What did I decide to do? Well, I concluded I wanted a short game practice area and a hitting area with reliable feedback and launch monitor info to optimize my equipment and ball selection. A full blown home simulator was out of my budget but I wanted something a little more accurate than P3 Proswing. I was sold on Golftek Pro VII but had doubts about the sensor pad.

At the last minute I came around to Zelocity Purelaunch. It does have a 2d sideview of ball flight and a 3d downrange view of a simulated hole to show right/left ball flight (not well illustrated or explained on their website IMHO).

I will set it up to hit off a Fiberbuilt mat into a large pop-up net and view the data on a laptop. I purchased a Tour Greens backyard putting green to work on my short game. Green looks great and came thru a flood in my backyard from Hurricane Gustav just two days ago. Synthetic green looks better than the rest of my yard and landscape and was pretty easy to clean up. It is a great area to work on putting and chipping.

I would love to have an indoor sim but just didn't have the room inside my house and it was too much hassle to setup a sim unit outdoors with the threat of hurricane and flooding where I live on the Gulf Coast.

Just my thouhgts but hope this helps anyone considering a home unit.

[justhackin]

jwats

 

If you haven't bought the pure launch I might wait awhile. A friend bought one in March and while the data outdoors is dead on it is not good inside. There is a well documented glitch in the software that makes the flight sim data very unreliable. They have been promising a software upgrade and fix since April but it hasn't shown up yet. The ball flight sim is terrible in my opinion and not near as good as the Vector Pro that I sold. The Vector showed good height and direction on the sim while the Zelocity unit shows it barely getting off the ground and on the wrong side of the target line.

 

He has also had a terrible time communicating with his rep who has since been released so I understand.

 

hackin

[BigLeftyinAZ]

The system I was looking at from golftek was 7500.

[jwats]

Thanks for that input. I got the PureLaunch for a great price "used" off of Ebay.

Tech support has been good to date from Zelocity. They tell me version 5.0 software is coming out in the next couple of months which will address some issues.

I was looking for something affordable and easy to setup which I could use at home practicing into a net and still get some reliable feedback.

As to 3D images and ball flight. I set it up and tried it last weekend. Distances seem pretty accurate compared to my experience on the course with my regular club set and ball combination.

Interesting part is I noticed a tendancy to hit a consistent fade with my driver (TM Burner TP with 9.5 stiff shaft) and everything was a draw with my irons (Nike OSS regular graphite) based on 3D graphics. Not surprised as the driver face is open and the shaft is a little stiff for my swing speed. I was trying this combo out to overcome a nasty snap hook when I get fast from the top.

So when I played this weekend, I just set up to play down the left side with the driver and fade the ball back into the fairway and aimed right on all the irons and played to bring it back to the green. Worked pretty well.

Botton line, there are lots of good launch monitors and sim units out there both new and used. IMHO just try to determine what your practice goals are and get the best device you can find that fits your budget and needs.

[John 898]

Very helpful analysis. Velocity Pure Launch looks like a good option to work on your game. Can it be integrated with simulator type programs (i.e., EA Sports Tiger Woods Golf) to simulate a round of golf?

[caddymaster1215]

i can try to help to some extent. i work extensively with a top 100 instructor who uses trackman and i can attest to the fact that it is incredible; and it does highlight ball revolution in addition to spin rate, flight, height, smash factor, carry and total distance. more importantly it has a games module that is great for short game practice.

 

i went in to the booth, they have 3 of them; just to work on shots with my 52 and 58 wedges. i worked for about 2 hours on distances from 50-100 yds. the screen shows you how close you are to the flag and assigns a point value, very cool.

 

i only wish i knew where to buy a home version i would put on the addition just for the simulator too.

[Linkster]

We installed a Virtual golf systems simulator in our basement, cool set-up. We had a wet bar and flat screens on the wall. Spent all winter "playing golf", drinking beer and watching football, a true "man cave". Downsides, friends would not go home, the room smelled like beer and hot wings until May, spent the first weeks of spring duck hooking the piss out of eveything even though they all went straight on the screen. Have fun.

[MC98000]

I would as well consider the simulator from www.protee-united.com which capability and price wise could fit in your budget (as very modular).

Any of you looked at this one before?

[VRGolfGuy]

Hey Everyone,

Sounds like you are all in the same boat that I was a few years back... There are so many different types of simulators and all of them say that they are the best.

Well I guess that is partially true, because they may be the best in their price point or for certain features. Remember when buying a system that you need to research what is available and really ask yourself what you want to get out of the system.

I ended up buying a P3Pro and loved it - I actually loved it so much that I started selling them and then started selling other sims and analyzers because I found that there is a different sim for every need.

Here is a somewhat quick breakdown:

There are basically 2 different types of technologies out there:
1. Golf Simulators
2. Analyzers (Ball, Club, Ball & Club, Golfer {ie: video})


1. Golf Simulators:
These started out as projected pictures of courses that you hit a ball at which then show a simulated ball flight. The technology then progressed and got into 3D graphics (no not the cool 3D like you see in the theatres today - but that IS coming). The systems then progressed into showing ball and/or club analytics based on what the sensors were reading and then these simulators became great learning tools and not just for playing when the weather was bad!

At one point you could only buy a full simulator package (sensors, software, computer, projector, touch screen, impact screen, flooring, stance mats and a very large enclosure). Since our computers have gotten better and the market became more competitive there were a few simulators / analyzers that came out as modular pieces - meaning that you could use their sensors and software and use it with your own computer and/or home theatre.

This advancement has led to a lot of confusion, as there are a lot of companies that say you can buy a $40,000 simulator for under $1000. Again, that is only partially true, as you are getting a simulator for under a $1000 but you still need to pay for your own components (projector, computer, impact screen, stance mats, etc.).

The software has also advanced so much that there is still a choice between the pictures and the 3D software.
Systems like the IST High Definition have incredible pictures of some of the top courses out there (they take about 14,0000 pictures of each course!) and their mapping is great. The down side is that it takes longer for them to build their library and the 'live' feel is limited to some animations - there are no flyovers and follow-the-ball views and the trees don't move with the wind and other weather elements.
The 3D graphics are available in almost all of the other systems and can really range in their quality and life-like appeal. This is where it becomes really important for you to look at screen shots and try to play on the system, as beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I have clients tell me they love the graphics on one system and others who say that don't are for it - this happens on almost all software out there.

On the analytics side there are systems that measure the ball, ones that measure the club and ones that measure both. Some require additional components to measure things like putting and launch angle and these options also add to the confusion. And of all of these systems most may show you the ball AND club data, but some of that data has come from an algorithm (calculation) so what you see may not be as accurate as you think.

This is where price point comes into play. There are some systems out there that are really great buys for what you get, but usually you do get what you pay for.

So if you hear someone having who hates a particular system, it may be because that person just didn't get what they wanted out of the system. IE: the P3Pro is a great system, but you need to know what it is giving you and what the limitations are on it. It is great for longer shots and putting, but the chipping isn't as good without the launch angle option. You also need to tape your woods and your putter - if this is not done properly you may get mis-reads.

Since this post is just about the simulators I won't get too far into analyzers...
Right now there are a few launch monitors (AccuSport Vector Pro and the Foresight Sports GC2) that have integrated their analytics with simulation software - the GC2 is bar far the best integration I have seen yet. The main problem with that is that the units sit beside the golfer, so you need to physically move the unit every time a golfer of a different handedness goes up to shoot. This is just not practical. The other problem is that the launch monitors only measure what the ball is doing, so the club data is estimated - with actual club data it is much easier to quickly change your swing to improve your game.

Whew.... some short explanation huh? Anyways, this IS just scratching the surface of what is out there and that is why I setup my business to help people understand this and help them find the system that is right for them - even if it is one that I don't sell

For any questions, feel free to contact me by email [email="[email protected]"][color="#0000ff"][email protected][/color][/email], phone (Toll Free) 1-877-417-2161 or visit my website [url="http://www.par2pro.com/"][color="#0000ff"]www.par2pro.com[/color][/url] (more detailed comparisons to come).

Keep your eye on the ball,
Cory Gauvreau, Par2pro

[bubba827]

woooow my dancing dogg was olny like 300 bucks and i love it.....lol..but if had more money would prob upgrade...........haaha

[labillyboy]

I played on one of these in Chicago at a bar in the winter when is was snowing outside. Made me want one... it was a lot of fun to cheat the weather.

Then I remembered I live in Southern California where we play golf outside... and no chance my wife would understand the need for me to play golf after dark... What does she call that again?.. ah yes, an "attractive nuisance"... in the same category as a pool table also nixed as something that would attract my friends and beer to our house a little too often. No man cave here...

Cory, sounds like a fun business, I am surprised by the price points you show on your site, I always thought these things were $100K... I would probably hurt myself if I had one. I could see myself coming out of the room with bleeding hands at 3am, with big circles around my eyes... I do have an extra 12 x 24 room in my house.... hmmm.

[ih8nixon]

I have the dancing dog as well it's fun and seems to be accurate in what it measures under proper lighting. The funniest part is if the light in the room is not right you can feel like a beast with a 128 mph swing speed.
There is also a huge thread on the dancing dog, p3pro, and pro7 on the forums at ottawagolf.com

[JasonZ]

I am an expert on Sims and have played them all and own an About Golf sim, it comes down to a couple things.
1. budget
2. Size of install
3. Expectations
4. Use

Once you can answer those questions I can point you in the right direction, but there is more bad info out there then good. There are more bad sims then good and if you plan on using your sim as a tool you can delete just about every sim from the list. You are better off with an indoor trackman.

When is comes to budget, this is the biggest one. Plan on 45-75K for the best of the best, plan on a foot print from 15 x 20 all the way to 25 x 25 depending on the model. Ceiling height can be as low as 10'4"
Expectations is the big one, if you want this to be a tool then you need a camera based system with support from the company, these are computers and they break! they malfunction and you'll want a dedicated team to be there to help you 24/7. You'll want the best rendering possible, not a photo of a course, you'll want moving images, it allows you to spend more time playing! You'll want accurate spin data, ability to back the ball up, accurate ball flight, trej and ability to log data forever!

[NGstaff]

We have dead solid sims here at the shop.