Rules Question

[3step]

Provisional Ball- who determines it?

Hi, I could use some help-

I understand the provisional ball rule, but i have a discussion going with my group...


Who determines when a provisional ball can be played?

If I hit my drive towards the OB fence, I can hit a provisional, in case it is lost outside of a hazard or out of bounds.

If I hit my drive towards some bushes, can I hit a provisional in case it is lost outside a hazard??

If I just hit my drive in the left rough, and lost my ball there yesterday, can I hit a provisional?

If I hit my drive down the middle of the fairway, and it bounds over the hill, most likely in the fairway, can I hit a provisional?

Who decides? Do I? Does my group? What are the limits of hitting a provisional ball?

Regards, 3

[arkstorm]

Hi, I could use some help-

 

I understand the provisional ball rule, but i have a discussion going with my group...

 

 

Who determines when a provisional ball can be played?

 

You the player determines that if a ball may be lost or out of bounds you will play a provisional. You must announce to your playing partner or a marker that you are designating this ball as a provisional.

 

If I hit my drive towards the OB fence, I can hit a provisional, in case it is lost outside of a hazard or out of bounds.

 

If I hit my drive towards some bushes, can I hit a provisional in case it is lost outside a hazard??

 

If you hit your ball towards the OB stake you can take a provisional. If you hit it towrads some bushes you need not take a provisional because if your ball ends up in the bush you can declare it unplayable and take your one stroke penalty without distance, hence you will be lying two hitting three rather than lying three hitting four.

 

 

If I just hit my drive in the left rough, and lost my ball there yesterday, can I hit a provisional?

 

No you may not take a provisional because the ball was not hit toward OB. And you can incur a penalty for undue delay since balls in the rough are not presumed lost.

 

If I hit my drive down the middle of the fairway, and it bounds over the hill, most likely in the fairway, can I hit a provisional?

 

No, since there is no chance the ball is lost outside a water hazard or out of bounds.

 

Who decides? Do I? Does my group? What are the limits of hitting a provisional ball?

 

Regards, 3

 

You the player has the only and final say as to whether or not you play a provisional but its important to keep in mind when its smart to play a provisional and when its not. E.g., if you hit toward a water hazard its only a stroke penalty to get out but if you hit a provisional, now you're lying stroke and distance. And you never want to incur a slow play penalty either.

[KevCarter]

27-2a/3 Play of Provisional Ball in Absence of Reasonable Possibility Original Ball Is Lost or Out of Bounds

Q. In the absence of reasonable possibility that a ball is lost outside a water hazard or is out of bounds, may the player play a provisional ball?

 

A. No. If a player plays a ball under such circumstances, the ball is not a provisional ball but the ball in play — see Decision 27-2a/2.

[AirTime23]

As a previous poster said, you decide, and only you!

 

If I hit my drive towards the OB fence, I can hit a provisional, in case it is lost outside of a hazard or out of bounds.

Yup, most definitely.

 

If I hit my drive towards some bushes, can I hit a provisional in case it is lost outside a hazard??

Yup, same-o. If you happen to find your ball the provisional is out of play immediately, and you still can take relief from anything.

 

If I just hit my drive in the left rough, and lost my ball there yesterday, can I hit a provisional?

Of course you can hit a provisional in this situation. The rule quoted before refers to the 'absence of reasonable possibility', and if you lost your ball there last time it's reasonable to play a provisional. After all, in regards to pace of play it's always quicker to play a provisional than walk back to the tee...

 

If I hit my drive down the middle of the fairway, and it bounds over the hill, most likely in the fairway, can I hit a provisional?

Nope, not this time.

 

Who decides? Do I? Does my group? What are the limits of hitting a provisional ball?

Rule in previous post says it all.

[philfrance]

Previous posts have got it right - you decide, but cannot abuse the situation. You hit a provisional if there is a reasonable risk that your ball may be OB, or lost (if you hit a wild slice 100 yards off your fairway, into very heavy rough) but not in a hazard. If the ball is in a hazard, or stands a chance of being in one, you do NOT hit a provisional.

 

Recently, in a tournament, a friend hit a ball in a water hazard, that was low on water. He could see his ball there from the tee- box, and thought it might be playable, but was unsure. He called for a provisional, hit it into play. It was ruled that there was no provisional, and that regardless, his second ball was in play, with a one stroke penalty - and that it could not be considered a provisional. You do not hit a provisional with a ball in an obstacle. You either decide the ball is out of play and hit your next stroke from the same place you hit the original (and it is not considered a provisional), or you confirm your ball is in the obstacle and proceed to take a normal drop per normal rules.

 

I do think though that if you hit a wild shot into an area where there stands a very minor chance of finding the ball for obvious reasons, you may hit a provisional, simply for the sake of avoiding slow play (or at least this is tolerated in amateur play and local tournaments).

[3step]

Thanks for all the help. 3

[Rockfish]

Worst part of the word "reasonable" is that it's unreasonable ! Causes more arguments than it solves.

 

You are permited to play a provisional if your ball may be lost or out of bounds. NOT if it may be in a hazard.

 

Well, sand is (almost always) easy enough to determine whether it is in or not but water ?

 

First hole at my club is straightaway with water on the right near the green. However, there's a hill on the right in front of the water. There is very hairy grass/deep rough on the downslope of the hill going towards the water.

 

When the hole plays downwind the carry to the downslope is roughly 265 and some of our boys can carry it that far under those conditions. As mentioned the downslope is rather thick and balls can, and do, get hung up there. And from the tee all you can see is the ball disappear over the hill.

 

So, if a guy powers one high and deep on that line of play, can he hit a provisional ? It MAY have hit hard and bounced into the water or it MAY have hung up in the rough and can't be found in a search.

 

Lost ball ? Or reasonable evidence it's in the water ?

[KevCarter]

Worst part of the word "reasonable" is that it's unreasonable ! Causes more arguments than it solves.

 

You are permited to play a provisional if your ball may be lost or out of bounds. NOT if it may be in a hazard.

 

Well, sand is (almost always) easy enough to determine whether it is in or not but water ?

 

First hole at my club is straightaway with water on the right near the green. However, there's a hill on the right in front of the water. There is very hairy grass/deep rough on the downslope of the hill going towards the water.

 

When the hole plays downwind the carry to the downslope is roughly 265 and some of our boys can carry it that far under those conditions. As mentioned the downslope is rather thick and balls can, and do, get hung up there. And from the tee all you can see is the ball disappear over the hill.

 

So, if a guy powers one high and deep on that line of play, can he hit a provisional ? It MAY have hit hard and bounced into the water or it MAY have hung up in the rough and can't be found in a search.

 

Lost ball ? Or reasonable evidence it's in the water ?

 

Rockfish,

 

I can tell a red flag goes up for you when making rulings on this hole, it would for me as well, but for different reasons.

 

First, let's look at when you may play a provisional ball:

 

---------------------------------

 

27-2. Provisional Ball

 

a. Procedure

 

If a ball may be lost outside a water hazard or may be out of bounds, to save time the player may play another ball provisionally in accordance with Rule 27-1. The player must inform his opponent in match play or his marker or a fellow-competitor in stroke play that he intends to play a provisional ball, and he must play it before he or his partner goes forward to search for the original ball.

 

---------------------------------

 

In my mind, you would be allowed a provisional ball on this hole every time you cleared the hill heading towards the water. Nothing is said about the possibility of the ball being in a hazard. In fact, decision 27-2a/2.2 explains this further:

 

---------------------------------

 

27-2a/2.2 Possibility That Original Ball Is in Water Hazard May Not Preclude Play of Provisional Ball

 

Q. If a player’s original ball may have come to rest in a water hazard, is he precluded from playing a provisional ball?

 

A. No. Even though the original ball may be in a water hazard, the player is entitled to play a provisional ball if the original ball might also be lost outside the water hazard or out of bounds. In such a case, if the original ball is found in the water hazard, the provisional ball must be abandoned.

 

---------------------------------

 

Because of the definition of a ball lost in a hazard, you would almost always have to declare your tee ball lost rather than in the hazard:

 

---------------------------------

 

26-1. Relief for Ball in Water Hazard

 

It is a question of fact whether a ball that has not been found after having been struck toward a water hazard is in the hazard. In order to apply this Rule, it must be known or virtually certain that the ball is in the hazard. In the absence of such knowledge or certainty, the player must proceed under Rule 27-1.

 

---------------------------------

 

If you are playing an event at this course, hopefully they will have a fore-caddy that can tell you whether the ball is lost in a hazard. If you are at this course playing for a lot of $$$, hopefully you have brought your own fore-caddy.

 

IMHO, the club should keep the rough mowed short enough so that a ball could not be lost in it, making it easier to uphold the virtual certainty test required to apply rule 26. Blind shots and water hazards are a bad mix rules wise.

 

Kevin