Retro Guide to Lofts: Is there a break point year?

[kaboboom]

Played yesterday with 1977 VIP irons. While I thought I struck many mid irons solid, I was consistently under clubbing. I play older irons most of the time, and use the 7 iron = 150 yds. At least with this set, on that day, 6= 150 would have been a better correlation.

 

I think I read that Cobra was the first to "deloft" iron sets back in the early 80's. Although this rule may not apply across the sets, I believe a modern 7 iron actually has a loft more like a 5 1/2 if you use the 7 to compare the change. This is especially important when you are playing with others using modern equipment, and you want to learn something from their shots.

 

Does someone have a table that can be used generally to compensate for the higher lofted older sets, and is there a watershed year that helps define when lofts changed?

[78blades]

[quote name='kaboboom' timestamp='1285936628' post='2723055']
Played yesterday with 1977 VIP irons. While I thought I struck many mid irons solid, I was consistently under clubbing. I play older irons most of the time, and use the 7 iron = 150 yds. At least with this set, on that day, 6= 150 would have been a better correlation.

I think I read that Cobra was the first to "deloft" iron sets back in the early 80's. Although this rule may not apply across the sets, I believe a modern 7 iron actually has a loft more like a 5 1/2 if you use the 7 to compare the change. This is especially important when you are playing with others using modern equipment, and you want to learn something from their shots.

Does someone have a table that can be used generally to compensate for the higher lofted older sets, and is there a watershed year that helps define when lofts changed?
[/quote]


I have a old set of 78 Wilson Staff Tour blades I like to play, when play'n well. I've noticed the same as you, basically one club difference. What is a 8i shot, 150 yds, with my Mizuno's is a 7i with my Wilsons. It has taken longer to dial in the ranges on my mid irons. They seem to be pretty finicky. It could be about a one and a half club differnce now, considering that the old pw loft was 50* and now they go from 48-46*. As for your last paragraph, I don't know, lets see what others mite have to add.

[crtssxc]

[quote name='78blades' timestamp='1285937601' post='2723068']
[quote name='kaboboom' timestamp='1285936628' post='2723055']
Played yesterday with 1977 VIP irons. While I thought I struck many mid irons solid, I was consistently under clubbing. I play older irons most of the time, and use the 7 iron = 150 yds. At least with this set, on that day, 6= 150 would have been a better correlation.

I think I read that Cobra was the first to "deloft" iron sets back in the early 80's. Although this rule may not apply across the sets, I believe a modern 7 iron actually has a loft more like a 5 1/2 if you use the 7 to compare the change. This is especially important when you are playing with others using modern equipment, and you want to learn something from their shots.

Does someone have a table that can be used generally to compensate for the higher lofted older sets, and is there a watershed year that helps define when lofts changed?
[/quote]


I have a old set of 78 Wilson Staff Tour blades I like to play, when play'n well. I've noticed the same as you, basically one club difference. What is a 8i shot, 150 yds, with my Mizuno's is a 7i with my Wilsons. It has taken longer to dial in the ranges on my mid irons. They seem to be pretty finicky. It could be about a one and a half club differnce now, considering that the old pw loft was 50* and now they go from 48-46*. As for your last paragraph, I don't know, lets see what others mite have to add.
[/quote]

Not so sure there is a specific year, as the original nike blades specs, produced in 2002, were:
[size="4"]Edit: loft chart didnt work but its 23*-49* for 3-P[/size]

Those are relatively retro lofts, not sure on the length tho.

I would contend that the increase in length has a similar affect on distance as the loft does.

[GVo55]

Here's a site that might give an additional data point.
[url="http://www.taylormadegolf.com/lowerlevel/lockerroom/prolocker.html#40"]http://www.taylormad...olocker.html#40[/url]
You can plug in the year and the model and get the specs for Taylormade's vintage irons, woods, etc. I plugged in just a few different years and it appears their PWs were consistently at 50* until the early 90s when you start seeng the lofts creep into the 49* and 48* range.

[Shallowface]

[quote name='kaboboom' timestamp='1285936628' post='2723055']
Played yesterday with 1977 VIP irons. While I thought I struck many mid irons solid, I was consistently under clubbing. I play older irons most of the time, and use the 7 iron = 150 yds. At least with this set, on that day, 6= 150 would have been a better correlation.

I think I read that Cobra was the first to "deloft" iron sets back in the early 80's. Although this rule may not apply across the sets, I believe a modern 7 iron actually has a loft more like a 5 1/2 if you use the 7 to compare the change. This is especially important when you are playing with others using modern equipment, and you want to learn something from their shots.

Does someone have a table that can be used generally to compensate for the higher lofted older sets, and is there a watershed year that helps define when lofts changed?
[/quote]

Looking at 5 irons, the loft changes have progressed (that is if you consider jacked-up lofts progress)from 32 to 30 (during the 70s) to 28 (in the late 80s/early 90s)to the current 26 (although I think Taylor Made may offer one as low as 24). The VIPs may well have a 32 degree five iron, and almost certainly no less than 30.

When you played these, did they chew up your golf balls? I have a loose 8 iron from that set and every time I hit it I have cover material in the grooves. My foggy brain remembers Jack having trouble getting too much spin out of these when he first put them in play (and yes the story was he actually played these for a time). They aren't square grooves, but as a casting they probably aren't true Vs either as that was hard to produce in a casting (which is why square grooves came to be in the first place. Simply a concession to manufacturing limitations). They were one of MacGregor's early efforts at producing an investment cast iron.

[kaboboom]

While I didn't see stuff on the face, I do remember the Calloways I was playing were getting grated a little, and I didn't hit a cart path or the like. The grooves do look i bit wide and block-y.

It's taken a few days and this forum to realize it, but those 1977 VIPS are deceiving...not really persimmon and forged, but made to look that way. Great casual players, and that's all I do, but not clubs to preserve for posterity.