Playing Hickory Golf

[majic]

Numbers and names are not always fit what you think they might be. You could have thee mashies all different loft, deeper faces and soles made by the same maker. Not set standards back then.

[hollabachgt]

[quote name='chapper30257' timestamp='1432413547' post='11614798']
Congrats to our own Hollobacght. He won the World Hickory Match Play beating some of the best hickory players in the game. He beat Jeremy Moe in the final.
Way to go Ben!
[/quote]

Thanks to everyone for the congratulations, It was a wonderful week in Philly.

The article on the SoHG website was a little unclear and I feel I should point out that Jeremy and I tied for second in points qualifications. Jeremy and I played a sudden death playoff for the right to face Claus Muehlfeit (Switzerland) in the final. Its an interesting note that in the first 2 years of this event the championship match has included 2 American and 2 Swiss players. Of course the real story of the week was 14 year old Grayson Giboney, who finished 7th after loosing 3 of his 5 qualifying matches by the narrowest of margins 5 points to 4. As the reigning Washington State Hickory Open champion, it's great to see a new generation of players enjoying hickory golf at such a high level.

[Kirasdad]

Beating Jeremy, however it takes place, is an accomplishment, Ben, but thanks for the update.

Now you can make a little money on the side by endorsing MacGregor Popular irons in the next Wee Nip!

(FYI for hickory newcomers, that's the SoHG Magazine)

[GaillaridiaHickory]

Tad,
New sticks arrived today. I played my first hickory round ever today. I shot an 83 playing the silver tees at 6,154 yards. Should have broken 80 it was just an awesome time. Need to learn to hit bunker shots with the niblick. It has to much bounce for me and I made three doubles out of the greenside bunkers. I started off with 4 straight pars then had a miss hit a little off the toe to go in my first bunker. Ball just tailed out to the right and into the greenside bunker. Then hit what I thought would be a good out from the trap and extra bounce caused the club to jump out of the sand making me hit it thin and over the green. Overall my mistakes today were just some miss clubbing on my part. Flew the par three nine right over the flag tucked in back right. Then proceeded to make double from about ten yards. Great short game sir. But was still very happy with the results of the nine. Made the turn and went bogey, then went into bunker again on next hole same results thin and almost off the green made another double bogey. Then par, par, three putt bogey on the par 5, DFM 167 yards to 10 feet on par three. Another good drive on 16 then hit worst iron shot of the day straight pull hit solid but hit the cart path and I am on the side of 17 tee box. Open the niblick up and thought I hit a perfect flop shot into the sun, but lands a yard short then rolls back into a drain. I drop and get up and down for bogey. Bogey the next hole. Then on last par five hit a decent drive hit wet spot and was a yard from divot. Hit a mid iron a good 200 yards to like 60 yards out. Put it on to like 15 feet and two putt for par.

Today was an awesome day for me. Shaping shots hitting little 3/4 and 1/2 shots was really fun too. I am really impressed with the clubs and now excited for all my future adventures in the hickory game. So I am normally a 12 handicap from 6800 yard tees with my modern clubs. Today shot 11 over on a really wet golf course from 6,154. I really just feel justified in my purchase.

Carnoustie here I come!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bella Woods]

Congrats on a very nice first hickory round of golf - see you
in Carnoustie..........

[majic]

Because of the large amount of weight in the sole of the Niblick you do not lay it open it works just fine square. Try it. If any for your eyes just ever so slightly and you will have no "bounce" issue

[GaillaridiaHickory]

Thanks Tad. I figure it out a bit today.

Played my match play match today for this years tournament. Played horrible and the Oklahoma wind was blowing. Three club wind at points. So I was down 3 after hole 11. Made a come back birdied 17 to take it back to even. Then 3 putt 18 to push and go to extra holes. Hit drive right down middle and he pulled his. Then pulls his second shot onto the wedge range. Since it is not marked out I help find his ball. Then he puts it to 40 feet and drains it right in front of my 15 footer for par. I pull my putt and loose. Fed up with my entire bag of modern clubs at this point.

I decide to get out the hickories and proceed to shoot 2 over 38 on the front with two birdies. One being a 165 yard into the wind jigger to 3 feet. Right in front of the cart girl too. HAHA Then I shot a 45 on the back for another 83. I don't know what to say. I'm a better hickory player apparently.

Ended up playing another nine as well from the regular tees with the Pro and one of the Assistant Pros. They were very impressed with clubs and the shots I was hitting with them. They told me that if I would have played with the hickories I would have one my match. And actually looking at the card I would have had a good shot. It has been quite a while since I have lost in match play format. Now I want a hickory tournament to play in ASAP. So if anything opens up or spots need to be filled please let me know. I'm hooked on the hickories and plan on playing tomorrow. Hope to come back with another 83.

[majic]

Go to www.hickorygolfers.com
My next one is Belvedere in Charlevoix Mich

[Woodridge]

For those in IL, close by or willing to travel...I got this today.

Chick Evans
Hickory Stick Invitational
August 9th, 2015
Shotgun Start at 12:30 pm
$165 Per Player Includes: Golf, Hickory Club Rental, Commemorative Players Towel
& Heavy Hors D’oeuvres Following Golf
$125 of entry fee donated to Evans Scholarship Foundation
Period Dress Encouraged
Contact Pro Shop at (708) 798-4700 for details
Period golf balls available for purchase • Hickory Club Raffle at event

[Woodridge]

I got out for 9 this evening and had a chance to use a vintage putter I just picked up on Ebay. I think I picked up a winner because I managed to hole out from off the green on 3 holes in a row. I ended up with 9 putts for 9 holes which I haven't had since I was a kid. I made two birdies and a double with shots of 60 feet, 40 feet and 25 feet. At the last, I chipped it and it hit the pin ending up a few inches away, so it was almost 4 hole outs in 9 holes..

[HoldenCornfield]

[quote name='Woodridge' timestamp='1433290492' post='11678258']
I got out for 9 this evening and had a chance to use a vintage putter I just picked up on Ebay. I think I picked up a winner because I managed to hole out from off the green on 3 holes in a row. I ended up with 9 putts for 9 holes which I haven't had since I was a kid. I made two birdies and a double with shots of 60 feet, 40 feet and 25 feet. At the last, I chipped it and it hit the pin ending up a few inches away, so it was almost 4 hole outs in 9 holes..
[/quote]

Wow. Nice going, Woody

[majic]

So how about a picture of this new flatstick

[Woodridge]

Per Tad's request. I wanted a Schenectady style putter that sat more upright and square than the one I had. I bought this one from Brad Gregory, the same guy I got my Gibson irons from. It's impossible to read, but it's a Jerry Travers model. Travers was a great amateur champion in the early 20th century.

[ebeer]

Nice looking putter and sounds like it's as effective for you as it was for old Jerry!

I really like these aluminum headed mallet shapes. I'm currently playing with a Ray Mills design, not exactly the same but very similar. Mine has been altered with lead plugs in the back for weight (pretty common) plus I've got some lead tape on top of that. I'm really liking the heft of this head, and while I haven't seen the success Woodridge describes it has certainly improved my game on the greens. Interesting for my putter, there is a very faint stamp for John S. Welsh Special. Turns out he was a club professional in Southern California, but grew up in Illinois where he was a caddie for Chick Evans and attributes his success in golf to that early relationship with Chick. Cool stuff.


[attachment=2789234:IMG_3204.JPG][attachment=2789230:IMG_3205.JPG][attachment=2789232:IMG_3206.JPG][attachment=2789228:IMG_3207.JPG]

[Woodridge]

Very nice! Reminds me of my previous putter, but yours looks like it sits square and it's a better design. Regarding lead, before yesterday I debated on adding some lead tape since I'm not worried about aesthetics with my Travers, but I think I'll hold for a while.

I'm not familiar with Ray Mills. Did he design some famous clubs?

[ebeer]

[quote name='Woodridge' timestamp='1433350367' post='11682504']
I'm not familiar with Ray Mills. Did he design some famous clubs?
[/quote]

The club is actually from the Standard Golf Company, first to really popularize the aluminum putter. Many called the company Standard Mills (from William Mills the founder) and putters were called the Mills Putter. There were specific models of the Mills putter (X, Y, AK, etc) in various weights and lies (flat, standard, upright). The "Ray" on this model is Ted Ray, who designed this putter for Standard Golf. There was also a Braid Mills putter model designed by (or for) James Braid.

[HoganApexBlades]

[quote name='Woodridge' timestamp='1433333942' post='11680602']
Per Tad's request. I wanted a Schenectady style putter that sat more upright and square than the one I had. I bought this one from Brad Gregory, the same guy I got my Gibson irons from. It's impossible to read, but it's a Jerry Travers model. Travers was a great amateur champion in the early 20th century.
[/quote]

Nice mallet Jim!

[Woodridge]

[quote name='HoganApexBlades' timestamp='1433368780' post='11684664']
[quote name='Woodridge' timestamp='1433333942' post='11680602']
Per Tad's request. I wanted a Schenectady style putter that sat more upright and square than the one I had. I bought this one from Brad Gregory, the same guy I got my Gibson irons from. It's impossible to read, but it's a Jerry Travers model. Travers was a great amateur champion in the early 20th century.
[/quote]

Nice mallet Jim!
[/quote]

Thanks Alan!

[majic]

Most of the old aluminum putters are light. I modify them for people by drilling holes and pouring lead. We have this equipment to do Otey putters. You can buy lead at fishing supply places. Big lead sinkers. You can weigh them. Take a small pot and a torch and melt the lead and pour it in. I will roughen the drilled hole or take a small drill and drill into sides of holes to help hold lead. Take a small hammer and tap lead to make it right.

[GaillaridiaHickory]

What is the loft and lie of that Ray Mills model putter?

[ebeer]

[quote name='GaillaridiaHickory' timestamp='1433512557' post='11694546']
What is the loft and lie of that Ray Mills model putter?
[/quote]

I don't have a way to measure loft or lie on a putter. The bottom of the putter says "Upright Lie", but there really weren't any standards back then except to hope that putters from the same maker would be consistent in step from flat to standard to upright. The putter does feel upright to me. Unlike steel irons that may have been bent by multiple owners over a century, I assume that aluminum clubs not taking kindly to bending are pretty much as they were intended by the maker.

The loft in looking at it and playing with it is typical of older putters, that is to say more loft than you see on a modern putter. If I had to guess I would say 6 to 7 degrees of loft. I forward press, so for me it works. I also find if I need to carry a small amount fringe I can use it without the forward press.

[stixman]

Sir William Mills of Sunderland (industrial NE) England,was the first to cast aluminium accurately. He also invented the Mills Bomb hand-grenade, and self-feathering and retractible propellors for early submarines. He was quite a guy.
Most Mills putters came in options of upright, medium and flat lies. With weight options expressed in ounces and drams the MIlls putters sold in 10s of thousands . They are not uncommon to see in regular play today (UK).
Their loft makes them popular on slow or imperfect greens today, paticularly outside the main playing season

[Blade Junkie]

Played in the annual Silver Tee Stableford Challenge yesterday at Goodwood Downs off the back (silver) tee. Course playing every inch (and more!) of the 7,104 yards, no run (they've left the fairways very lush this year, presumably to try and counteract the bombers) and with rough at the brutal end of the brutality scale. As has become customary, I embraced the concept of "Challenge" and played my venerable set of Tom Stewart hickories, in full knowledge that I can't even reach the fairway on 4 of the holes lol (230 yard carry to get there). The hickory comps at Goodwood are usually played off the blue tees, 5,977 yards.

I had played a few practice holes in the evenings last week, and had worked out a way to play most of the holes, but it really did require EVERY shot to be hit well, and on some the only way was to hit a pitch off the tee onto a path or forward tee, where you could at least find the ball, and then try and play the 2nd shot to a point from which the 3rd could reach the green.

In the two previous years, I had returned 29 points playing hickory, so the goal this year was 30 !

Didn't do very well on the front nine, a couple of blobs after tee shots into the rough (and two to hack out both time after miraculously finding the ball in the first place) and was sat at 13 points after nine holes, with a solitary par, six bogeys, a triple and a quad.

The back nine is tougher than the front, with hole lengths 424, 543, 160, 365, 457, 428, 599, 204, 471 yards, and the only par-4 less than 420 was playing straight into the 20mph wind !

i hit more fairways on the way in, albeit nothing further than about 210, and the solitary miss was alas on that shorter par-4 where I skied a shot into thick rough and took 4 to reach the green, and two-putted for a non-scoring double bogey. Elsewhere it was a 2 pars (11th and 12th) and 5 bogeys, with a three-putt double on the uphill 457 yard SI 1 14th. The par on the 543 yard 11th was the best one - this is one of the holes where my intended strategy was a 50 yard pitch off the tee. But having made a mess of the front nine I thought "bugger it I'll hit driver" and hit one dead straight about 200 yards into a landing area 20 yards wide with waist high rough to either side, 30 yards short of the fairway. Hit a poor third after a decent second, and had to get up and down from 70 yards for the par. Mashie pitch to 10 feet and a bit of magic from the Eskit did the trick.

Next hole, 154 yard par-3 12th, I hit a Stewart Mongrel Mashie to 15 feet , which covered the pin all the way and looked like it would be very close until it stopped in it's own pitch mark. The Mongrel Mashie is a new club to me, and one that I paid far too much for on eBay (at $170 equivalent it was more than double my previous most expensive Stewart). It is nevertheless proving value for money as I'm hitting alot of good shots with it, plus it is sitting nicely distance wise between my Mashie and my Mashie Iron. Quite a short shaft at 37.5" for its 28 degree loft, and a very thick top line means that even mis-hits are a reasonable result.


What did it all add up to ? Why 29 points again of course

67 players in the competition - Par 71 CSS was 77 ... and I was actually 10th ! Dead chuffed with that

[stixman]

Stunning stuff, Geoff. A great challenge, a challenge in the true sense of the word, a bit like Scott's Antarctic expedition, a taken on in heroic spirit.
Could be also, unmentioned that the weather over here has been, well, unmentionable. High winds and rain have been on the order of play. If so, that would have made the Hickory round of the year evn more noteworthy

[Blade Junkie]

[quote name='stixman' timestamp='1433667287' post='11704524']
Stunning stuff, Geoff. A great challenge, a challenge in the true sense of the word, a bit like Scott's Antarctic expedition, a taken on in heroic spirit.
Could be also, unmentioned that the weather over here has been, well, unmentionable. High winds and rain have been on the order of play. If so, that would have made the Hickory round of the year evn more noteworthy
[/quote]

Cheers Chris! No rain - it was sunny, very windy .. but the ground conditions were the biggest obstacle. There is just no run at all ... so you have to try and play an adapted version of the "running game" - with no run lol. Does make it very tough to use clubs whose performance relies on alot of run, but you take it as it comes, and try and work out a way to get it round. Our greenkeeper is brushing the fairways and first cut, so the grass just sticks straight up and 'grabs' any ball hit into it.

I think the reproduction clubs like Tad's that have flanges and a bit of bounce might perform better in conditions like this.

Some of the divots I was taking yesterday were more like beaver pelts than actual beaver pelts ...

[MoaningM]

Geoff, thats an impresive performance, great scoring round a long track. Still havent got it in me to play comps with anything but the big stuff!

[Blade Junkie]

[quote name='MoaningM' timestamp='1433670335' post='11704572']
Geoff, thats an impressive performance, great scoring round a long track. Still havent got it in me to play comps with anything but the big stuff!
[/quote]

Thanks Dave - all relative to my crappy handicap of course

I am competitive in handicap stuff, but obviously light years away from category 1 golfer scoring in scratch terms ... though I like to try and have the occasional moment when I actually look like a proper golfer

[Blade Junkie]

If any of the UK lot (or anyone else come to that!) fancy a hosted (by me) round at Goodwood (not necessarily the Silvers lol), I have 28 guest tickets that are valid to the end of the year !

Hickory or Persimmon & Blades obligatory

Send me a PM if interested.

[MoaningM]

[quote name='Blade Junkie' timestamp='1433671617' post='11704590']
[quote name='MoaningM' timestamp='1433670335' post='11704572']
Geoff, thats an impressive performance, great scoring round a long track. Still havent got it in me to play comps with anything but the big stuff!
[/quote]

Thanks Dave - all relative to my crappy handicap of course

I am competitive in handicap stuff, but obviously light years away from category 1 golfer scoring in scratch terms ... though I like to try and have the occasional moment when I actually look like a proper golfer
[/quote]

Geoff i wouldnt even contemplate using hickories around. 7000+ yds course let alone one with no roll. Links course youd have more of a chance, admittedly that is if you can hit the fairways, but without any roll what a slog! Hats off to you! The woods would be getting a serious lot of use!

[MoaningM]

[quote name='Blade Junkie' timestamp='1433671986' post='11704602']
If any of the UK lot (or anyone else come to that!) fancy a hosted (by me) round at Goodwood (not necessarily the Silvers lol), I have 28 guest tickets that are valid to the end of the year !

Hickory or Persimmon & Blades obligatory

Send me a PM if interested.
[/quote]

Geoff, i'd certainly be interested in that, am looking at playing a mid am scratch event at hankly common so could possiblycombine a trip further south?