Tour players with pull-draw ball flight

[DRETOT]

How about Rocco? Based on his set-up alignment, it looks like a pull draw.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXEsL6AZQzo

dre

[KevCarter]

Good find Dre!

[DriveIt"N"3Putt]

This type of swing work best for me, I've tried playing push draws and I just hit huge push fades. Those shots to me are worse than a pull hook. Why? Because the former goes 180 yards with a driver. If I smother one of course it'll be a bad shot, but everyone has bad swings every once in awhile, just yesterday Simpson hit huge right to right shot out of bounds. To the op, if it works for you then good.

[DriveIt"N"3Putt]

[quote name='DRETOT' timestamp='1328463468' post='4218367']
How about Rocco? Based on his set-up alignment, it looks like a pull draw.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXEsL6AZQzo

dre
[/quote]
+1

[Mizgoodie]

yep good find there.... does anyone know if peter jacobsen played one too?

[Potatohead]

Look at where the ball starts in the Roc video though... It's left of his feet line sure but it's not left of his shoulder line.

[KevCarter]

[quote name='Potatohead' timestamp='1328471655' post='4219061']
Look at where the ball starts in the Roc video though... It's left of his feet line sure but it's not left of his shoulder line.
[/quote]

Oops, you caught us without our protractors. :-)

[JRS]

once again we have the cummunication breakdown because the old school guys reference left/right open/closed to the indended swing path and the new school guy reference everything to the "target".

the new school will tell you a swing path 10 degrees right with a face angle only 5 degrees right is an open face. it's not logical at all, in my opinion.

also i think pull hook etc are terrible descriptions. a pull is(used to be) when your swing path goes more left than what you intented. i could aim a mile right and pull it straight at the target.
a "pull hook" apparently is a shot that starts left of the target and curves further left. i could achieve this with a path that ius slightly RIGHT of the target if i really wanted to.

back to the topic at hand, what i think the OP really wants to know is "which players set up way right and swung it back with a [s]shut[/s] face aimed left of their swing path?"

[MadGolfer76]

I think what OP wants is validation for a poor shot shape. I don't mean that to sound harsh, but a pull/draw is a hook using kinder terminology.

[williamevanl]

How about Rocco? Based on his set-up alignment, it looks like a pull draw.

 

 

dre

+1

 

 

This is clearly a push draw.

 

although I realize now why you guys think its a pull draw because Rocco appears to be lined up right of the green. His ball is still starting right of the original target line and working back left. If the ball started left of that initial line it would be a pull draw.Also, if it were a pull draw that black arrow in the second frame would be pointed left.

[DriveIt"N"3Putt]

How about Rocco? Based on his set-up alignment, it looks like a pull draw.

 

 

dre

+1

 

 

This is clearly a push draw.

 

although I realize now why you guys think its a pull draw because Rocco appears to be lined up right of the green. His ball is still starting right of the original target line and working back left. If the ball started left of that initial line it would be a pull draw.

He is lined up further right than that.

[KevCarter]

Oops, gotta sharpen my protractor and get it realigned... :-)

[The Big Pinch]

How about Rocco? Based on his set-up alignment, it looks like a pull draw.

 

 

dre

+1

 

 

This is clearly a push draw.

 

although I realize now why you guys think its a pull draw because Rocco appears to be lined up right of the green. His ball is still starting right of the original target line and working back left. If the ball started left of that initial line it would be a pull draw.Also, if it were a pull draw that black arrow in the second frame would be pointed left.

 

push draw aside that is one herky/jerky swing.

[AppAlum]

[quote name='JRS' timestamp='1328473842' post='4219275']
once again we have the cummunication breakdown because the old school guys reference left/right open/closed to the indended swing path and the new school guy reference everything to the "target".

the new school will tell you a swing path 10 degrees right with a face angle only 5 degrees right is an open face. it's not logical at all, in my opinion.

also i think pull hook etc are terrible descriptions. a pull is(used to be) when your swing path goes more left than what you intented. i could aim a mile right and pull it straight at the target.
a "pull hook" apparently is a shot that starts left of the target and curves further left. i could achieve this with a path that ius slightly RIGHT of the target if i really wanted to.

back to the topic at hand, what i think the OP really wants to know is "which players set up way right and swung it back with a [s]shut[/s] face aimed left of their swing path?"
[/quote]


I think you've nailed it, and I'm an old school kind of teacher.

[A.G.Blade]

[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1328474445' post='4219339']
I think what OP wants is validation for a poor shot shape. I don't mean that to sound harsh, but a pull/draw is a hook using kinder terminology.
[/quote]


You're right that I do want validation for my potential shot shape, but I'm also asking why, as you did above, define it as a poor. Outside of the tech info via trackman data (which maybe someone could shed some light on), the only disadvantage i can think of is a visualization one with your body being closed. Potentially more distance with run out, and lower, more penatrating, ball flight in the wind.

[williamevanl]

[quote name='A.G.Blade' timestamp='1328493437' post='4220935']
[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1328474445' post='4219339']
I think what OP wants is validation for a poor shot shape. I don't mean that to sound harsh, but a pull/draw is a hook using kinder terminology.
[/quote]


You're right that I do want validation for my potential shot shape, but I'm also asking why, as you did above, define it as a poor. Outside of the tech info via trackman data (which maybe someone could shed some light on), the only disadvantage i can think of is a visualization one with your body being closed. Potentially more distance with run out, and lower, more penatrating, ball flight in the wind.
[/quote]

That's ^ part of the problem, when I first started playing golf I always thought of the pull draw as being a cool shot because you can absolutely nuke all of you irons (primarily because you turn a 6 iron into a 4) the problem is that you don't get the desired loft from each club plus it's a double cross (worst shot in golf) so its only a matter of time before that shot gets ugly fast.

Its just like any other swing flaw though. You can play with it but it will catch up to you eventually.(but yea if you wanted to hit all of you irons unpredictably farther, lower and never be able to stop them on a green then pull draw them. Its the 'cheater' draw *cheater as in it doesn't require an actual draw swing*

[MadGolfer76]

[quote name='williamevanl' timestamp='1328493951' post='4220973']
[quote name='A.G.Blade' timestamp='1328493437' post='4220935']
[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1328474445' post='4219339']
I think what OP wants is validation for a poor shot shape. I don't mean that to sound harsh, but a pull/draw is a hook using kinder terminology.
[/quote]


You're right that I do want validation for my potential shot shape, but I'm also asking why, as you did above, define it as a poor. Outside of the tech info via trackman data (which maybe someone could shed some light on), the only disadvantage i can think of is a visualization one with your body being closed. Potentially more distance with run out, and lower, more penatrating, ball flight in the wind.
[/quote]

That's ^ part of the problem, when I first started playing golf I always thought of the pull draw as being a cool shot because you can absolutely nuke all of you irons (primarily because you turn a 6 iron into a 4) the problem is that you don't get the desired loft from each club plus it's a double cross (worst shot in golf) so its only a matter of time before that shot gets ugly fast.

Its just like any other swing flaw though. You can play with it but it will catch up to you eventually.(but yea if you wanted to hit all of you irons unpredictably farther, lower and never be able to stop them on a green then pull draw them. Its the 'cheater' draw *cheater as in it doesn't require an actual draw swing*
[/quote]

This ^. I spent two miserable years playing what I thought was a draw, when, in fact, it was a pull/draw. To start, irons came off hot, driver rolled a ton - timing was good. At the end of it, I was aiming twenty or thirty yards offline in order to compensate for it. There were holes with trees where I just couldn't aim far enough to start anything but a 5 iron. All this to say that particular shot shape tends to get way out of control and promotes a multitude of swing flaws that are hard to remediate short term.

The other part of this is that you use language that leads folks to assume that you produce a certain shot shape naturally, and should just stick with it. Nothing could be further from the truth. Work at your game, and observe the ball flights of better players where you are at, and figure out how to get from point A to B. There is a reason people are having to stretch their faculties to produce a player who does what you are suggesting: no pro wants to touch that shot shape or the swing pattern that produces it. It is golfing death...

[golfsavvy]

Nobody suggested one of the best curve-lefters of all time (couldn't write hook*r) -- Bobby Locke.

According to the World Golf Hall of Fame profile, "He learned by reading Bobby Jones' instruction books, adapting a wristy inside-out move that consistently produced a hard right-to-left draw. What was so amazing about Locke's shot pattern was its consistency. He rarely missed a green, and when he did, he had the short game and the disposition to save par."

Video: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExiQuRyZG2s"]Bobby Locke[/url]

After seeing his swing, I'd have to doubt a bit of that swing description....

[gators78]

How about Rocco? Based on his set-up alignment, it looks like a pull draw.

 

 

dre

+1

 

 

This is clearly a push draw.

 

although I realize now why you guys think its a pull draw because Rocco appears to be lined up right of the green. His ball is still starting right of the original target line and working back left. If the ball started left of that initial line it would be a pull draw.

He is lined up further right than that.

 

Stood behind him a bunch, he does not play a pull draw, he does stand very closed and that throws off perception. He slings it a good bit out to the right before hooking back.

 

To answer the real question I don't know of anybody (on tour) that plays a real 'pull draw.'

[munipro]

[HappyGolf]

[quote name='kevcarter ' timestamp='1328444630' post='4217077']
[quote name='deasy55' timestamp='1328438675' post='4216911']
[quote name='kevcarter ' timestamp='1328435547' post='4216867']
[quote name='golfdu' timestamp='1328434605' post='4216855']
Phil Mickelson... his misses are pull-draws. You can pretty much bomb it if you can controll the pull-draw, because of the roll you get. 2010 US Open at Pebble Beach on the 2nd hole (final round), I was there that day and was watching his drive in the DTL view, and I noticed he was aiming at the left rough. He then swung it and had this crushing pull-draw that was measured at 380 yards.
[/quote]

Aimed left and hit a pull draw?

I think we are all speaking different languages...
[/quote]

Phil Mickelson is left handed
[/quote]

LOL - that's what I get for answering questions in the middle of the night. What a dufus! :-)

Kevin
[/quote]


Human after all... thank God... that makes two of us! LOL



I saw Steve Stricker hitting some tasty (yet soft) pull-draws a few times in the Hawaii Champ of Champs. Aimed right edge, started the ball just about center, finished left edge by the pin from approx 200yds.... he did it about 4 times that I noticed.

[KevCarter]

[quote name='HappyGolf' timestamp='1328641788' post='4231863']

Human after all... thank God... that makes two of us! LOL



I saw Steve Stricker hitting some tasty (yet soft) pull-draws as few times in the Hawaii Champ of Champs. Aimed right edge, started the ball just about center, finished left edge by the pin from approx 200yds.... he did it about 4 times that I noticed.
[/quote]

How much fun would it be to hit it like Stricker, even for just one day!?!?!?!?

Cheers,
Kevin

[HappyGolf]

[quote name='kevcarter ' timestamp='1328642458' post='4231969']
[quote name='HappyGolf' timestamp='1328641788' post='4231863']
Human after all... thank God... that makes two of us! LOL



I saw Steve Stricker hitting some tasty (yet soft) pull-draws as few times in the Hawaii Champ of Champs. Aimed right edge, started the ball just about center, finished left edge by the pin from approx 200yds.... he did it about 4 times that I noticed.
[/quote]

How much fun would it be to hit it like Stricker, even for just one day!?!?!?!?

Cheers,
Kevin
[/quote]

I'm a forumer..... there's NO WAY I'm giving up 100yds in distance!

[justinp766]

This thread is so stupid.

DOES ANYONE ON TOUR MISS THE INTENDED TARGET ON PURPOSE? should have been the thread name....which makes absolutely no sense unless the object is to get as many strokes as possible.

[munipro]

A pull draw will start left of target and move right to left in flight.
A ball flight is always based on the ball to target line. Thus a pull draw can never finish on the players intended target. Unless the ball strikes a tree down the left side and bounces back onto the fairway/green.

Pull draw = Out to in swingpath with a closed clubface in relation to that swingpath. The term pull draw is flawed as a draw will finish on the the players target line. A pull can never finish on target if right to left spin is applied to the ball.

A player may hit a pull/draw and finish on target but that pull/draw would be in relation to his/her allignment but ball flight is never in relation to the players allignment. Hope that all made sense lol!

[bmellisen]

Munipro, a quick question. Target line doesnt equal pin, does it? So pin is on left side of green, i can aim for the right edge, and hit a pull draw that ends up at the pin. So you couldplay a pull draw, right? Not saying i amor want to, just trying to get clarity on what others think in regards to terminology.

[munipro]

The target line is a straight line between a players ball and where the player intends the ball to land.

[A.G.Blade]

[quote name='munipro' timestamp='1328652924' post='4233215']
A pull draw will start left of target and move right to left in flight.
A ball flight is always based on the ball to target line. Thus a pull draw can never finish on the players intended target. Unless the ball strikes a tree down the left side and bounces back onto the fairway/green.

Pull draw = Out to in swingpath with a closed clubface in relation to that swingpath. The term pull draw is flawed as a draw will finish on the the players target line. A pull can never finish on target if right to left spin is applied to the ball.

A player may hit a pull/draw and finish on target but that pull/draw would be in relation to his/her allignment but ball flight is never in relation to the players allignment. Hope that all made sense lol!
[/quote]
appreciate your insight, but I think you know what I mean by "pull draw" Just trying to find examples/ info on it

[munipro]

[quote name='A.G.Blade' timestamp='1328656200' post='4233543']
[quote name='munipro' timestamp='1328652924' post='4233215']
A pull draw will start left of target and move right to left in flight.
A ball flight is always based on the ball to target line. Thus a pull draw can never finish on the players intended target. Unless the ball strikes a tree down the left side and bounces back onto the fairway/green.

Pull draw = Out to in swingpath with a closed clubface in relation to that swingpath. The term pull draw is flawed as a draw will finish on the the players target line. A pull can never finish on target if right to left spin is applied to the ball.

A player may hit a pull/draw and finish on target but that pull/draw would be in relation to his/her allignment but ball flight is never in relation to the players allignment. Hope that all made sense lol!
[/quote]
appreciate your insight, but I think you know what I mean by "pull draw" Just trying to find examples/ info on it
[/quote]

No problem. I do hate to sound like a a** but there is no such ball flight. There are only three ball flights which finish on target. A perfectly straight shot, a fade and a draw. No tour player plays for any other ball shape than those three ball flights. Thats not to say they dont ever hit other ball flights but they would always be a bad shot.

[umaynome]

And we're right back to the second post in the thread . . .