Getting Ben Hogan's Swing

[tembolo1284]

Helps also to be able to do it every day about 6-8 hours a day.

[dairic]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1371515399' post='7267756']
Helps also to be able to do it every day about 6-8 hours a day.
[/quote]

Kinda like this guy...I'm sure he does this all day. It's just amazing to watch the splendid release of his PA#3.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3K27rziSfo[/media]

[station2station]

While I like Hogans swing, I'd rather copy Trevino - anytime you have that super abbreviated take away with a long powerful follow thru not much can go wrong.

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1371525890' post='7269252']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1371515399' post='7267756']
Helps also to be able to do it every day about 6-8 hours a day.
[/quote]

Kinda like this guy...I'm sure he does this all day. It's just amazing to watch the splendid release of his PA#3.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3K27rziSfo[/media]
[/quote]

lmao nice video!

[ajc57]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1371515399' post='7267756']
Helps also to be able to do it every day about 6-8 hours a day.
[/quote]

Indeed, but that applies to everything in life...to me, it's not a good reason not to go for it. We all have jobs, responsibilities, etc. but the majority of what needs to be figured out in the swing is not physical, it's mental. The mind's the coach, the body is the team. As the coach, you can work on your strategies all day long, you don't have to have a club in hand. The proof is in how long Ben Hogan struggled even tho he beat balls all day everyday for almost a decade. I don't believe it was the obsessive practicing that did it, it was his obsession with thinking about the swing. The practice certainly opened doors for him, but that can be done now with analysis. I take maybe 5 or 6 swings a day - granted it takes me about 30 mins to make them, but the majority of my study takes place in my head, on the bus, at work, walking to work - any place or time where you don't have to focus on something else, is just as good as the range.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='ajc57' timestamp='1371561244' post='7270950']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1371515399' post='7267756']
Helps also to be able to do it every day about 6-8 hours a day.
[/quote]

Indeed, but that applies to everything in life...to me, it's not a good reason not to go for it. We all have jobs, responsibilities, etc. but the majority of what needs to be figured out in the swing is not physical, it's mental. The mind's the coach, the body is the team. As the coach, you can work on your strategies all day long, you don't have to have a club in hand. The proof is in how long Ben Hogan struggled even tho he beat balls all day everyday for almost a decade. I don't believe it was the obsessive practicing that did it, it was his obsession with thinking about the swing. The practice certainly opened doors for him, but that can be done now with analysis. I take maybe 5 or 6 swings a day - granted it takes me about 30 mins to make them, but the majority of my study takes place in my head, on the bus, at work, walking to work - any place or time where you don't have to focus on something else, is just as good as the range.
[/quote]

If I had to choose...i'd rather do the physical part. Any monkey can look and see if ball flight is good or not...and make tweaks from there.

You can do all the thinking you want and it's great...but it won't be proven effective until you actually get down to it in the physical sense.

I believe it was a combination of both his obsessive thinking and his obsessive practicing that allowed him to do great things.

When he came up with his supposed secret of his left cupping of the wrist...it was just another one of his 1000 ideas until he went about it physically and proved to himself that it was useful. Until then it was just another idea.

Tyler how many ideas would you say you have gone through so far in your younger golf life? And how many did you actually keep? If any?

[tylerdurden]

Ha good question. Not many. I've had tons of dumb ideas. Most were compensations. Once I got my grip and setup correct, learned proper right arm action, pivot, etc, the stuff I was trying to do with all my ideas just started to happen naturally. Slicefixer and iteach had a lot to do with that. Basically saved me a ton of time. Maybe a few months maybe a couple decades. Not that I'm finished with it but I have a pretty good base now to work off of. I spent to much time chasing the look of certain things and had no clue what the causes are. Now I can focus on a couple things and everything else pretty much clicks in.

In terms of thinking about it to practice, I used to do that a lot. I don't feel the need to anymore. It's so simple in terms of thoughts/feel that it'd get pretty boring. I'd much rather hit the shots and refine the execution.

[tembolo1284]

Boom baby!

[ajc57]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1371561934' post='7271026']
[quote name='ajc57' timestamp='1371561244' post='7270950']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1371515399' post='7267756']
Helps also to be able to do it every day about 6-8 hours a day.
[/quote]

Indeed, but that applies to everything in life...to me, it's not a good reason not to go for it. We all have jobs, responsibilities, etc. but the majority of what needs to be figured out in the swing is not physical, it's mental. The mind's the coach, the body is the team. As the coach, you can work on your strategies all day long, you don't have to have a club in hand. The proof is in how long Ben Hogan struggled even tho he beat balls all day everyday for almost a decade. I don't believe it was the obsessive practicing that did it, it was his obsession with thinking about the swing. The practice certainly opened doors for him, but that can be done now with analysis. I take maybe 5 or 6 swings a day - granted it takes me about 30 mins to make them, but the majority of my study takes place in my head, on the bus, at work, walking to work - any place or time where you don't have to focus on something else, is just as good as the range.
[/quote]

If I had to choose...i'd rather do the physical part. Any monkey can look and see if ball flight is good or not...and make tweaks from there.

You can do all the thinking you want and it's great...but it won't be proven effective until you actually get down to it in the physical sense.

I believe it was a combination of both his obsessive thinking and his obsessive practicing that allowed him to do great things.

When he came up with his supposed secret of his left cupping of the wrist...it was just another one of his 1000 ideas until he went about it physically and proved to himself that it was useful. Until then it was just another idea.

Tyler how many ideas would you say you have gone through so far in your younger golf life? And how many did you actually keep? If any?
[/quote]

Absolutely, you still have to implement your ideas, but if you read all the greats everybody said the same thing - just whacking balls is useless unless you're working on something specific. Venturi said that if you take a guy that hits balls 5 days a week but is in diff positions each time, and then you take a guy that hits half, even a third of that, but is consciously working on something specific and with the goal of repeating it - the latter is ten times better off.

Personally, I need about 6 to 7 swings to see if what I've been thinking/working on is adding up. I have my everyday swings, the ones I don't think about and then I have my experimental swings that either work or don't. When the latter works a few days in a row, it's starts to work itself into my everyday swing and that's when you know the work paid off. Doesn't mean it's permanent, but it means you've made a tweak that has added consistency to your swing. Then you test that on the course and see if it holds up under pressure.

Everybody's different I guess, just telling you the way I do it and the way I believe it's the best way.

[tembolo1284]

Ya it's all good. I think the brain along with the physical is also the best way.

[ajc57]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1371564798' post='7271376']
Ya it's all good. I think the brain along with the physical is also the best way.
[/quote]

yah, I mean don't get me wrong, if I could hit balls all day - I would - tho I'd still take the same amount of time between swings.

Right now I just quit my job to focus on my own business, and I have a feeling that the 6 or 7 will prob turn into 3 diff sessions of 5 swings throughout the day. My biggest obstacle is going to be to keep being patient and not resort back to making swing after swing like I did year 1.

[tembolo1284]

So what's the hardest part to copy of Hogan's move?

[AM19]

Never seen anyone with the same right arm action hip to hip

[tembolo1284]

so tyler you got ben hogan yet?

[tylerdurden]

ha no sir

[tembolo1284]

henny bogan at least?

[Woodridge]

For most of the 40 years I have played, I have been a shut lifter going back and re-router on the way down.

Having watched a bunch of Mr. Hogan video recently, I've decided to focus on my swing plane and try to duplicate Mr. Hogan's. We're pretty close to the same body type as I'm 5'8" and 155lbs. Having swung the club on a shallower plane for a 6 or so range sessions now, I've found a couple things as it applies to my swing.

1. It's a much easier swing on my body than my old plane. I've had a shoulder and elbow issue this past year and neither of those bother me with this swing. I'm also much more relaxed at address since I allow the club to swing on a plane that more natural to me.

2. My pivot through the ball is nowhere near Mr. Hogan or [u]any[/u] good amateur. I've lost about one club with my irons going to this swing plane and was trying to figure out why. Watching Hogan deliver the club on a fairly shallow plane yet compress the heck out of the ball confused me at first. That is until I realize that his compression came from his pivot (or it appears so to me at least) and that I was stalling my pivot and slinging the club. My inside out swing path certainly confirms that for me as well.

One of things that pulled some of this together on the swing plane front was a post that Magnum made in the locked Hogan's secret thread. I think it was on page 17. In it, he talks about the 'lowness' that Mr. Hogan's swing had and uses some great pictures to make his point. It made a ton of sense to me and helped clarify some things. It certainly didn't hurt that Fats followed that post by saying Magnum was right on in his observation. For now, I am going to continue working on the swing plane since that is a huge change for me.

[isaacbm]

My feeling is that you shouldn't copy someones swing ever. The reason Hogan's swing developed the way it did is because he was constantly playing tournaments and trying to figure out what worked when the pressure was on. His body reacts differently to pressure than mine or yours or the next guys.

Everyone doesn't have the same reaction to stress as the next guy. For example, the reason one person might have their arms a little farther from their body at impact then someone else is because in that position, their arms feel lose and free and it lets them turn the club over more naturally. doing the same thing for the next guy down the line might make them feel disconnected. Even though they're doing the same thing.

It's not about body style, as in height and weight. It's about muscle awareness. Some players have more awareness of their hands and some one else has more awareness of their core. The two players will swing differently under pressure because they'll both tend to make a move that allows for their strengths under pressure.

Looking at video of swings should be a very lose guideline for a model of a swing. And I mean VERY! The only way you'll ever start to truly develop and own your own swing will be to play a lot of tournaments and see what really works for you.

There's a reason that no two players on tour swing the same way. Everyone's reaction to the pressure and stress of competition is different so everyone's swing will be different.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1371525890' post='7269252']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1371515399' post='7267756']
Helps also to be able to do it every day about 6-8 hours a day.
[/quote]

Kinda like this guy...I'm sure he does this all day. It's just amazing to watch the splendid release of his PA#3.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3K27rziSfo[/media]
[/quote]

Just realized this is Tapio. Don't know why but he always makes me smile!

Damn shame he was banned!

[dairic]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1372952950' post='7387750']
[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1371525890' post='7269252']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1371515399' post='7267756']
Helps also to be able to do it every day about 6-8 hours a day.
[/quote]

Kinda like this guy...I'm sure he does this all day. It's just amazing to watch the splendid release of his PA#3.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3K27rziSfo[/media]
[/quote]

Just realized this is Tapio. Don't know why but he always makes me smile!

Damn shame he was banned!
[/quote]

I didn't know he was banned. They're dropping like flies these days I tell ya. I think it's time someone started a new forum called "Golfwrx Cast Outs" where the only criteria for joining is getting banned from here. I bet there would be great information packaged in chaos and violence.

[itsjappo]

I am. well not trying to swing exactly like him because we all know everyone is built differently. I am just using as much of the techniques he used by studying as much material and analyzing films i can of the man. I just want to to be able to have full control of my ball flight and direction as he did. It's a long and never ending process. I'm about two years into it.

[tembolo1284]

Where's Tyler?

[Pinsplitter59]

Sawasdee Kup Tembolo, I'm off to Thailand again at end of the month.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1372952289' post='7387680']
My feeling is that you shouldn't copy someones swing ever. The reason Hogan's swing developed the way it did is because he was constantly playing tournaments and trying to figure out what worked when the pressure was on. His body reacts differently to pressure than mine or yours or the next guys.

Everyone doesn't have the same reaction to stress as the next guy. For example, the reason one person might have their arms a little farther from their body at impact then someone else is because in that position, their arms feel lose and free and it lets them turn the club over more naturally. doing the same thing for the next guy down the line might make them feel disconnected. Even though they're doing the same thing.

It's not about body style, as in height and weight. It's about muscle awareness. Some players have more awareness of their hands and some one else has more awareness of their core. The two players will swing differently under pressure because they'll both tend to make a move that allows for their strengths under pressure.

Looking at video of swings should be a very lose guideline for a model of a swing. And I mean VERY! The only way you'll ever start to truly develop and own your own swing will be to play a lot of tournaments and see what really works for you.

There's a reason that no two players on tour swing the same way. Everyone's reaction to the pressure and stress of competition is different so everyone's swing will be different.
[/quote]

Holy crap can't believe I missed this post sir! Excellent post here...and from a man that has probably seen more than all of us have in terms of golf and what happens during tourney play.

[tembolo1284]

This was a rocking thread at one point. I wonder why we stopped.

[tembolo1284]

So what do you guys think about all this recent banana talk with Cary?

It was mentioned in there by a few guys that there is a biomechanical ideal in how to spank the ball.

What do we think that ideal is and why do so many of us think hogan is that ideal...or at least...as close to ideal as we can get?

Jack Nicklaus won a good deal more than Hogan and from an earlier age...why don't people go all bonkers with his ball striking? His higher ball flight has to be more ideal for modern conditions right?

[tembolo1284]

That's another thing that's porking me a bit. Hogan hit the ball pretty low by all accounts. How does that help us nowadays?

Same with Trevino. Dudes were known to kill it with their swings...but they both hit it awfully low by all accounts.

That's not gonna help us when we try to hit the 15th green at bethpage black from 235 out. Need HEIGHT baby!

[tembolo1284]

Tyler what you think?

[dairic]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1385130844' post='8189596']
That's another thing that's porking me a bit. Hogan hit the ball pretty low by all accounts. How does that help us nowadays?

Same with Trevino. Dudes were known to kill it with their swings...but they both hit it awfully low by all accounts.

That's not gonna help us when we try to hit the 15th green at bethpage black from 235 out. Need HEIGHT baby!
[/quote]

Do you think that with today's less spinny ball their trajectories would be even lower?

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1385141734' post='8190562']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1385130844' post='8189596']
That's another thing that's porking me a bit. Hogan hit the ball pretty low by all accounts. How does that help us nowadays?

Same with Trevino. Dudes were known to kill it with their swings...but they both hit it awfully low by all accounts.

That's not gonna help us when we try to hit the 15th green at bethpage black from 235 out. Need HEIGHT baby!
[/quote]

Do you think that with today's less spinny ball their trajectories would be even lower?
[/quote]

I don't know for sure. I'd imagine they'd play the highest launching stuff they can and the spinniest balls they can.

If they played blades though...I'd still say they would be one of the lowest launching dudes around.

You'd think Hogan and Trevino would be smart enough to learn to adjust with setup and all that to launch it higher. That's the thinking anyway.