Hogans left wrist cupping - was it left hand action or right hand?

The title tells a lot.

We are always talking about how his left wrist was cupped in transition (some believe it was his secret) but is there more to see? Was it really about left wrist action, or did he use his right arm so that left just got cupped?

Any thoughts?

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1350748574' post='5820935']
The title tells a lot.

We are always talking about how his left wrist was cupped in transition (some believe it was his secret) but is there more to see? Was it really about left wrist action, or did he use his right arm so that left just got cupped?

Any thoughts?
[/quote]

Or did it happen because of the right knee like Vasques claimed?

Riddles, riddles =)

[quote name='Staffer' timestamp='1350756400' post='5821313']
[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1350748574' post='5820935']
The title tells a lot.

We are always talking about how his left wrist was cupped in transition (some believe it was his secret) but is there more to see? Was it really about left wrist action, or did he use his right arm so that left just got cupped?

Any thoughts?
[/quote]

Or did it happen because of the right knee like Vasques claimed?

Riddles, riddles =)
[/quote]

Might be... but elbow is connected to the hand..

I think what he did was rotating the right hand and arm so, that the right palm was facing toward him more than away from his body. So by ext. rotation of the right shoulder and supination of the right forearm he ended up to the place in transition that this move of the right hand bent his left wrist to cupped position. Quite much same that Martinez is telling in his most powerful move in golf.

Now when the right arm is rotated to that position, its natural direction to work is inwards pulling instead of pushing hands and club out. It also puts the right elbow ready to pitch position and prevents it to fly and also makes it much easier to drag it back close to the right hip.

One more thing it makes is that one can never be across at transition, rather laid off

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1350809135' post='5823337']
I think what he did was rotating the right hand and arm so, that the right palm was facing toward him more than away from his body. So by ext. rotation of the right shoulder and supination of the right forearm he ended up to the place in transition that this move of the right hand bent his left wrist to cupped position. Quite much same that Martinez is telling in his most powerful move in golf.

Now when the right arm is rotated to that position, its natural direction to work is inwards pulling instead of pushing hands and club out. It also puts the right elbow ready to pitch position and prevents it to fly and also makes it much easier to drag it back close to the right hip.

One more thing it makes is that one can never be across at transition, rather laid off
[/quote]

Well, I am not Ayers, but my take on it is that the hand motion is an effect, not a cause. The loop is an old trick, but it requires timing for the hands to catch up.

@ teeace

i just read you posted this at another forum in regards to Hogans swing, is this true? you seem to post like you know what Hogan did.

I can't believe this, i assumed you knew what Hogan did from all your posts about him, are these then just your opinions or do you have some other knowledge that proves what Hogan did that you wish to keep secret?

[size=2][color=Red]And I have never never never said I know what he did. Not even close. I have said few details about his swing that can easily be seen, but never claimed I know what he did.[/color][/size]

[quote name='Staffer' timestamp='1350844838' post='5824313']
[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1350809135' post='5823337']
I think what he did was rotating the right hand and arm so, that the right palm was facing toward him more than away from his body. So by ext. rotation of the right shoulder and supination of the right forearm he ended up to the place in transition that this move of the right hand bent his left wrist to cupped position. Quite much same that Martinez is telling in his most powerful move in golf.

Now when the right arm is rotated to that position, its natural direction to work is inwards pulling instead of pushing hands and club out. It also puts the right elbow ready to pitch position and prevents it to fly and also makes it much easier to drag it back close to the right hip.

One more thing it makes is that one can never be across at transition, rather laid off
[/quote]

Well, I am not Ayers, but my take on it is that the hand motion is an effect, not a cause. The loop is an old trick, but it requires timing for the hands to catch up.
[/quote]

I'm not talking about loop or DSW, just BSW and position at the transition

[quote name='ray ray' timestamp='1350848780' post='5824481']
@ teeace

i just read you posted this at another forum in regards to Hogans swing, is this true? you seem to post like you know what Hogan did.

I can't believe this, i assumed you knew what Hogan did from all your posts about him, are these then just your opinions or do you have some other knowledge that proves what Hogan did that you wish to keep secret?

[size=2][color=Red]And I have never never never said I know what he did. Not even close. I have said few details about his swing that can easily be seen, but never claimed I know what he did.[/color][/size]
[/quote]

You still think someone believes you are not Footwedge from Ralphs forum, you are badly wrong.

And all things I have said about Hogans swing are really easy to see if one just opens eyes and thinks a little.

Your smear cmapaign against me is stupid and childish, and the worst thing is it disturbs all healthy minded people to have discussions

[quote name='ray ray' timestamp='1350848780' post='5824481']
@ teeace

i just read you posted this at another forum in regards to Hogans swing, is this true? you seem to post like you know what Hogan did.

I can't believe this, i assumed you knew what Hogan did from all your posts about him, are these then just your opinions or do you have some other knowledge that proves what Hogan did that you wish to keep secret?

[size=2][color=Red]And I have never never never said I know what he did. Not even close. I have said few details about his swing that can easily be seen, but never claimed I know what he did.[/color][/size]
[/quote]

Thanks ray ray for starting yet another pissing contest. There's nothing like grown men crying to kill a thread.

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1350851264' post='5824627']
[quote name='ray ray' timestamp='1350848780' post='5824481']
@ teeace

i just read you posted this at another forum in regards to Hogans swing, is this true? you seem to post like you know what Hogan did.

I can't believe this, i assumed you knew what Hogan did from all your posts about him, are these then just your opinions or do you have some other knowledge that proves what Hogan did that you wish to keep secret?

[size=2][color=Red]And I have never never never said I know what he did. Not even close. I have said few details about his swing that can easily be seen, but never claimed I know what he did.[/color][/size]
[/quote]

You still think someone believes you are not Footwedge from Ralphs forum, you are badly wrong.

And all things I have said about Hogans swing are really easy to see if one just opens eyes and thinks a little.

Your smear cmapaign against me is stupid and childish, and the worst thing is it disturbs all healthy minded people to have discussions
[/quote]



what are you talking about? i told you i'm not this footwedge, i read it and wanted to ask if what you posted was true or maybe someone else posted it.

[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1350858167' post='5825031']
[quote name='ray ray' timestamp='1350848780' post='5824481']
@ teeace

i just read you posted this at another forum in regards to Hogans swing, is this true? you seem to post like you know what Hogan did.

I can't believe this, i assumed you knew what Hogan did from all your posts about him, are these then just your opinions or do you have some other knowledge that proves what Hogan did that you wish to keep secret?

[size=2][color=Red]And I have never never never said I know what he did. Not even close. I have said few details about his swing that can easily be seen, but never claimed I know what he did.[/color][/size]
[/quote]

Thanks ray ray for starting yet another pissing contest. There's nothing like grown men crying to kill a thread.
[/quote]


who is crying? and who said i was a man? it's just a question, i want to know if i'm wasting my time talking to someone who doesn't know what he's talking about regarding Hogan, i'll look for an expert on the matter, thanks for your concern.

[quote name='ray ray' timestamp='1350864269' post='5825349']
[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1350858167' post='5825031']
[quote name='ray ray' timestamp='1350848780' post='5824481']
@ teeace

i just read you posted this at another forum in regards to Hogans swing, is this true? you seem to post like you know what Hogan did.

I can't believe this, i assumed you knew what Hogan did from all your posts about him, are these then just your opinions or do you have some other knowledge that proves what Hogan did that you wish to keep secret?

[size=2][color=Red]And I have never never never said I know what he did. Not even close. I have said few details about his swing that can easily be seen, but never claimed I know what he did.[/color][/size]
[/quote]

Thanks ray ray for starting yet another pissing contest. There's nothing like grown men crying to kill a thread.
[/quote]


who is crying? and who said i was a man? it's just a question, i want to know if i'm wasting my time talking to someone who doesn't know what he's talking about regarding Hogan, i'll look for an expert on the matter, thanks for your concern.
[/quote]

I didn't know you were a woman ray. I retract my previous statement and replace it with this one: "grown men/women crying". Is that better?

You parachuted in this thread completely out of context to simply attack tee's credibility for something you read in another forum, this amounts to you unloading your emotional baggage you have for teeace which for the purpose of this conversation I'll call "crying".

It's awesome when people have heated debates which are rational and on topic because through the battle of ideas the truth sometimes comes out. I know that I've often lost such exchanges, but instead of keeping a grudge I view it as the price you pay for engaging in a rational debate and hopefully everyone learns something. What you did was a cheap shot, completely lame, and often leads to threads to be totally sidetracked and eventually locked.

Sorry everyone for this rant.

you're over reacting, i just asked a question as i don't want to waste my time in any debates if he doesn't have any pertinent knowledge of what Hogan did i thought he was an expert in all things Hogan , he put himself out as one from what i have read here.....get it? seems like you're the only one crying and teeace of course. if i wanted to cheap shot him i would have just said he hasn't a clue. oh and by the way he keeps cheap shotting me by calling me someone else, maybe you should reprimand him while you're on your soap box.

ok ray...have a good night.

[quote name='ray ray' timestamp='1350871525' post='5825875']
you're over reacting, i just asked a question as i don't want to waste my time in any debates if he doesn't have any pertinent knowledge of what Hogan did i thought he was an expert in all things Hogan , he put himself out as one from what i have read here.....get it? seems like you're the only one crying and teeace of course. if i wanted to cheap shot him i would have just said he hasn't a clue. oh and by the way he keeps cheap shotting me by calling me someone else, maybe you should reprimand him while you're on your soap box.
[/quote]

For sure Ray and we all believe this.

And here is so nice PM from your lovely friend

[color=#282828]"You are so full of sh1t. What you are saying in the L wrist cup thread has already been put forward by Lake/John Dochety, Eightiron and myself, all of whom you RATTED![/color]
[color=#282828]You are a TROLLING teacher! RAT!"[/color]

Thank you a lot SVSV for these nice words. I love this world where people behave well and civil, so please let me answer to you here in public side.

You now my young friend, in this business there is some people who think things and find things. They might be in forums to share things and also to learn. Sometimes when they see things, they just connect that to something other and get an idea. IMO they are not responsible if someone has said it years ago somewhere and its not a copycat thing at all. If it would, we all should teach different grip and stance also.

I found this thing myself after doing Martins move about 1,5 years ago and sorry if you great teachers has done it before and now feels I was plagiating it. I really didnt know you own rights for that and as Martin wasn't feeling bad at all when telling this, I couldn't think by putting this idea out here to get people thinking and maybe help someone was this bad that it made you use those words against me (actually same you use in every msg in Ralphs)

Anyway I hope you can get over it, because I'm gonna continue this thread by going to right elbow and tensions, as well to the natural working directions in different hand positions. I would, and I believe also other members would be, very happy if you join the conversation at this public side and share your great knowledge with us about this case and help all of us to understand more about this game and learn more all the time. We all are here to help each other and for learning, aren't we?

I dont see any inaccuracies in that PM. Second, I find it ironic that you are ratting on someone who sent you a PM about ratting on him and others

So why not to make it little bit more clear and start from this quote that Ray wanted to share as a piece of it:

SHOW US YOUR HOGAN DATA OR SHUT THE F' UP ABOUT YOU PROVED WHAT HE DID 100%. CON ARTIST CLOWN! ALL JUST OPINIONS, EVERYONE ELSE ADMITS TO THIS INCLUDING JEFF MANN, EVERYONE EXCEPT ALL THE HOGAN CON ARTISTS LIKE RATAPIO. THAT'S A FACT.

 

There is no data needed to see those simple things I have said until now. The tricky part is still ahead when people firs understands what happened there and why it was hard to see.

 

And I have never never never said I know what he did. Not even close. I have said few details about his swing that can easily be seen, but never claimed I know what he did.

You understand Ray, at least I hope you do, that claiming to know what Hogan did, would be idiotic, because there is so many things happening and we can't see under his skin. But the other thing to understand is that one can still understand exactly some detailed parts of his movements and start to collect the puzzle. I know simple minded people use to see things in black and white, but I hope you are not one of them and can dissociate and associate things well and see the grey area between black and white.

Let me explain it bit more.

I love still pictures ( I think you know nowadays what is the difference between 2D and still?) because there is no complete movement confusing our mind with all those different levels of movement. When looking a still picture and good quality one, you can find those details and try yourself how to get that position. This picture was just one reminder for me about the things I wanted to write about year ago, so now it came up

IMO if you want to achieve that position at impact, and even you think I know nothing about Hogan, I think he had that, you better start to get ready for that already in BSW. And still, even I get sued by plagiating SVSV idea, I would say Hogan told that already in 5L, but it has never been the most interesting part of his move as people hae been more interested about his lower body action.

I just happen to think that his lower body action was great, but it didn't change during the years and at that one night of secret. I can see his arm movements and upper body action changed and the cupping (maybe because of the right arm action) could be the big part of that. Maybe even the crucial one, who knows.

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1350876697' post='5826197']
[quote name='ray ray' timestamp='1350871525' post='5825875']
you're over reacting, i just asked a question as i don't want to waste my time in any debates if he doesn't have any pertinent knowledge of what Hogan did i thought he was an expert in all things Hogan , he put himself out as one from what i have read here.....get it? seems like you're the only one crying and teeace of course. if i wanted to cheap shot him i would have just said he hasn't a clue. oh and by the way he keeps cheap shotting me by calling me someone else, maybe you should reprimand him while you're on your soap box.
[/quote]

For sure Ray and we all believe this.

And here is so nice PM from your lovely friend

[color=#282828]"You are so full of sh1t. What you are saying in the L wrist cup thread has already been put forward by Lake/John Dochety, Eightiron and myself, all of whom you RATTED![/color]
[color=#282828]You are a TROLLING teacher! RAT!"[/color]

Thank you a lot SVSV for these nice words. I love this world where people behave well and civil, so please let me answer to you here in public side.

You now my young friend, in this business there is some people who think things and find things. They might be in forums to share things and also to learn. Sometimes when they see things, they just connect that to something other and get an idea. IMO they are not responsible if someone has said it years ago somewhere and its not a copycat thing at all. If it would, we all should teach different grip and stance also.

I found this thing myself after doing Martins move about 1,5 years ago and sorry if you great teachers has done it before and now feels I was plagiating it. I really didnt know you own rights for that and as Martin wasn't feeling bad at all when telling this, I couldn't think by putting this idea out here to get people thinking and maybe help someone was this bad that it made you use those words against me (actually same you use in every msg in Ralphs)

Anyway I hope you can get over it, because I'm gonna continue this thread by going to right elbow and tensions, as well to the natural working directions in different hand positions. I would, and I believe also other members would be, very happy if you join the conversation at this public side and share your great knowledge with us about this case and help all of us to understand more about this game and learn more all the time. We all are here to help each other and for learning, aren't we?
[/quote]


what does any of that have to do with me? if you have a problem with someone else named svs or footwedge how does that involve me here? what is your proof that i have anything to do with any of this? plus chrisgilly just made a great point...geez you got some issues!

[quote name='chrisgilly09' timestamp='1350877765' post='5826261']
I dont see any inaccuracies in that PM. Second, I find it ironic that you are ratting on someone who sent you a PM about ratting on him and others
[/quote]

Ratting them? Hmm.. I never called them rats, it's just the delusion of the sender of that PM

So once again.... this thread will be locked or deleted in couple of hours... thanks for that Ray.

One more wasted opportunity to have good thread going deeper in details...

no point in any continuation of this, you don't have anything to offer that i haven't heard from others. have no idea about the 2d / still comment? i like to converse with people that can understand other viewpoints apparently you have some problem with that, you seem to think only your viewpoint is the right one...weird since you said you don't know what Hogan did!

anyhoo, like i said nothing to learn fom you if you don't know what Hogan did, makes no sense listening to you then does it? bye!

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1350878996' post='5826311']
So once again.... this thread will be locked or deleted in couple of hours... thanks for that Ray.

One more wasted opportunity to have good thread going deeper in details...
[/quote]


what are you talking about? i asked if you made that statement if it was true, if it is true there's no point in listening to what you say,...is there, because you don't know as you said. continue on! i'm just not going to partake , thanks.

I didnt say that...what I did say was you are using a PRIVATE message sent to you by SVS to "rat" or "tell" on him. Very low brow, childish thing to do. I honestly question your reading comprehension skills.

For the record, I say left hand for cupping. Right hand/side feels equal loading R elbow and punch elbow position for me.

[quote name='chrisgilly09' timestamp='1350879404' post='5826325']
I didnt say that...what I did say was you are using a PRIVATE message sent to you by SVS to "rat" or "tell" on him. Very low brow, childish thing to do. I honestly question your reading comprehension skills.

For the record, I say left hand for cupping. Right hand/side feels equal loading R elbow and punch elbow position for me.
[/quote]

Might be silly, but when you get enough of those with that kind of language, you just want finally to share them to show how the guy is behaving. So why didn't him post it to this thread directly? Why to send a PM with that content? If I send a PM, it will include something personal I don't want to share, but it's never that kind of attack.

But for the record: Is there different kind of right arm positions that helps the left to cup Hogans way? Can you do it your right palm is facing the wrong direction?

I still think its childish, wont change my opinion on that at all. We also dont know how you speak in PM's because others have more class than to post their correspondence with you. And besides, those that know what Hogan did liked to post just to wind you up.

What does wrong direction for the R palm/arm mean? At address? P2,3,4,5,6? Where?

[quote name='chrisgilly09' timestamp='1350881059' post='5826405']
I still think its childish, wont change my opinion on that at all. We also dont know how you speak in PM's because others have more class than to post their correspondence with you. And besides, those that know what Hogan did liked to post just to wind you up.

What does wrong direction for the R palm/arm mean? At address? P2,3,4,5,6? Where?
[/quote]

Many people here know how I speak in PM's. Really many.

But as one more thread wet to this... lets just leave it.

Thanks for a great conversation around the case guys and not taking it to the personal level... earlier

I wonder if Hogan set up his wrist that way more to do with supporting a very heavy club than Any sort of tension so he can do a timed release later in the swing.

And if he did have that sort of timing built in with his hands and arms, he would not need to pivot as hard to get through the impact zone. Which we know that it leave you with little time to "Time" anything with a lower body action like Hogan.

And I will point out once more, TeeAce, you have a very nice swing. But it's not the Hogan release.

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1350748574' post='5820935']
The title tells a lot.

We are always talking about how his left wrist was cupped in transition (some believe it was his secret) but is there more to see? Was it really about left wrist action, or did he use his right arm so that left just got cupped?

Any thoughts?
[/quote]

Tee, I cannot follow what you are saying. What is your point here, that Hogan cupped more in the transition. (Are you saying the opposite of the so called "Harley move").

And whatever you are talking about Martin, his process is 100% nothing to do with the left or the right wrists. He gets it done a different way.

[quote name='Timanator' timestamp='1350927368' post='5828101']
I wonder if Hogan set up his wrist that way more to do with supporting a very heavy club than Any sort of tension so he can do a timed release later in the swing.

And if he did have that sort of timing built in with his hands and arms, he would not need to pivot as hard to get through the impact zone. Which we know that it leave you with little time to "Time" anything with a lower body action like Hogan.

And I will point out once more, TeeAce, you have a very nice swing. But it's not the Hogan release.
[/quote]

Or maybe he rotated that hand that way to get the right elbow to the right position and whole arm able to pull the club in instead of pushing it out.

And I don't have a nice swing and not Hogan release. I have never said I got and when I realized what he was doing I was already too old I think it was back in -98 or something when I last time worked with my swing and those few rounds I play nowadays I can manage with that.

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1350928572' post='5828201']


And whatever you are talking about Martin, his process is 100% nothing to do with the left or the right wrists. He gets it done a different way.
[/quote]

Martin got different opinion about that. I have talked with him about it.

But what I mean is that cupping of left wrist could be done by using the right hand and arm correctly. Turning the right palm facing more toward you than away from you.