Hogans left wrist cupping - was it left hand action or right hand?

[ej002]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1350930426' post='5828389']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1350928572' post='5828201']
And whatever you are talking about Martin, his process is 100% nothing to do with the left or the right wrists. He gets it done a different way.
[/quote]

Martin got different opinion about that. I have talked with him about it.

But what I mean is that cupping of left wrist could be done by using the right hand and arm correctly. Turning the right palm facing more toward you than away from you.
[/quote]

like a bicep curl

[TeeAce]

And whatever you are talking about Martin, his process is 100% nothing to do with the left or the right wrists. He gets it done a different way.

 

Martin got different opinion about that. I have talked with him about it.

 

But what I mean is that cupping of left wrist could be done by using the right hand and arm correctly. Turning the right palm facing more toward you than away from you.

 

like a bicep curl

 

Yep, and if you then filter the rotation off, you see that arm is still in that orientation here

 

 

Just think how it would look if you lift the hand up from this position

[ej002]

Sorry buddy but all of the docf guys had sever punch elbow.

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1350930426' post='5828389']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1350928572' post='5828201']
And whatever you are talking about Martin, his process is 100% nothing to do with the left or the right wrists. He gets it done a different way.
[/quote]

Martin got different opinion about that. I have talked with him about it.

But what I mean is that cupping of left wrist could be done by using the right hand and arm correctly. [b]Turning the right palm facing more toward you than away from you.[/b]
[/quote]

This is demoed by Elkington and Ayers on Youtube - looks like pulling a bow string back with an arched right wrist.

[TeeAce]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1350933190' post='5828661']
Sorry buddy but all of the docf guys had sever punch elbow.
[/quote]

IMO that got nothing to do with this case.

[PingG10guy]

Considering that Hogan would teach players to swing with a leather belt around their arms, and seeing the deep pitch elbow and active muscles in the 2d image you post everywhere, I think you can answer the question for us.

The right arm can be externally rotating, and pronating at the same time

[TeeAce]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1350934998' post='5828877']
Considering that Hogan would teach players to swing with a leather belt around their arms, and seeing the deep pitch elbow and active muscles in the 2d image you post everywhere, I think you can answer the question for us.

The right arm can be externally rotating, and pronating at the same time
[/quote]

For sure it can. I think it's most natural that both those movements are to the same direction and also flattening club twists those that way. The point is to keep it all the way working to that direction. The thing that would ruin every average joes game as Hogan said.

There is good topic at the regular side about permission to slice... all Slicefixers students seem to understand this really well.

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1350935516' post='5828941']
There is good topic at the regular side about permission to slice... all Slicefixers students seem to understand this really well.
[/quote]

Im no SF student. whats this permission to slice you speak of?

To keep it on topic though...If your right arm is pronating and externally rotating then how could you possibly keep the right hand facing you more? Im a strong grip guy and just dont see it happening lol. The right arm stuff I get...and it is the hardest part of the swing to ingrain IMO. Definitely nulls out the rate of closure in transition, but I dont see the 12* driver leaving my bag anytime soon.

[TeeAce]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1350936079' post='5828993']
[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1350935516' post='5828941']
There is good topic at the regular side about permission to slice... all Slicefixers students seem to understand this really well.
[/quote]

Im no SF student. whats this permission to slice you speak of?

To keep it on topic though...If your right arm is pronating and externally rotating then how could you possibly keep the right hand facing you more? Im a strong grip guy and just dont see it happening lol. The right arm stuff I get...and it is the hardest part of the swing to ingrain IMO. Definitely nulls out the rate of closure in transition, but I dont see the 12* driver leaving my bag anytime soon.
[/quote]
Yep.. thanks for asking. Need to make it more understandable.

So in BSW and transition it rotates facing toward you and also the muscular action is like that after transition. But the main reason for that direction is because the arm is pointing up. So when you drop it down, it will of course point away from you and when coming to impact, it stays like that and under the shaft.

And once more million other things effecting there and everything cant be seen because of other forces but that's the way to do it. As you said, even strong guy like you cant keep it that way, teh important thing is to try.

Byt try that BSW move with your right hand only. Where is your face pointing when it's easiest to ext rotate the shoulder?

[TeeAce]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1350936079' post='5828993']

Im no SF student. whats this permission to slice you speak of?


[/quote]

And here is the thread [url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/742149-give-yourself-permission-to-slice-it-off-the-planet/"]http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/742149-give-yourself-permission-to-slice-it-off-the-planet/[/url]

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1350936777' post='5829071']
Where is your face pointing when it's easiest to ext rotate the shoulder?
[/quote]

Open.

[TeeAce]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1350937323' post='5829113']
[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1350936777' post='5829071']
Where is your face pointing when it's easiest to ext rotate the shoulder?
[/quote]

Open.
[/quote]

Damn... watching TV and posting should be forbidden

Meant to say where is your palm facing ...

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1350937994' post='5829163']
[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1350937323' post='5829113']
[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1350936777' post='5829071']
Where is your face pointing when it's easiest to ext rotate the shoulder?
[/quote]

Open.
[/quote]

Damn... watching TV and posting should be forbidden

Meant to say where is your palm facing ...
[/quote]

up...but wouldnt another way to do it be to keep the forearms together and lose the cup in the lead wrist then just turn through the ball? Like my avatar?

Just got back from the middle east and all so Im a little rusty in my recent swing vids. Getting there though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbx76BvYO8E

[ray ray]

when tested both elk and ayers had more supination than the tour average, so that move that ayers came up with has to be undone at some point so the more he winds it up the more it unwinds.

the video for that testing they did is right on the sitd. site and it was done by a woman named beasley , it's in about 6 parts in the video section, elk and ayers were tested in a bunch of area's check it out. ayers couldn't believe he had a lot more supination than the tour average when he thinks he has none.

[ej002]

^^ this I believe, but Martin feels like he is doing the opposite - one of the opposing "forces" in DOCF... Also, his grip is neutral - when the face is about 20-30* OPEN - so it hit a straight shot, there has to be tones of supination. He just doesnt do it with his forearms.

[ray ray]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1351086050' post='5838357']
^^ this I believe, but Martin feels like he is doing the opposite - one of the opposing "forces" in DOCF... Also, his grip is neutral - when the face is about 20-30* OPEN - so it hit a straight shot, there has to be tones of supination. He just doesnt do it with his forearms.
[/quote]


at about the 3min and 15 sec. mark. beasley tells them what's happening in the unwinding of ayers move. axial rotation/supination velocity ,and it's clear she's rotating the forearm. ayers just doesn't think he does that, but what he misses is when he lowers the hands down in a full speed swing that's when it happens, it has to or he would whiff every shot. feel not real. both elk and ayers were out of the tour range on that, they had a lot more of it.

funny it's supposed to cause hooking according to one hogan expert here and that expert touts ayers method as stopping this...hmmmm?, why would elk and ayers do something that causes hooking? there's more to it than meets the eye!

but hey what do i know i'm just another idiot .









[media=]http://youtu.be/ZqQYA2LKG_c[/media]

[TeeAce]

It's funny to connect supination to that BSW move or use one player as an example. Amount of needed supination is only dependent of body orientation at impact.

Also like ej said, there is those other forces...

[ray ray]

actually it was both elk and ayers compared to the PGA TOUR averages, so they were above the average of all the other tour players in axial/supination velocity. that means other tour players have supination/axial rotation and axial velocity recorded in the database that was been used by beasley. they were all tested using the same method.

you can deny, deny all you want but the fact is there is supination/axial rotation in many tour players and i believe there was in Hogan as well. the amount is up for debate but i believe there was some, especially with a weaker grip and the cupped wrist and the laid off club in transition. jmo.

[TeeAce]

[quote name='ray ray' timestamp='1351114142' post='5840795']
actually it was both elk and ayers compared to the PGA TOUR averages, so they were above the average of all the other tour players in axial/supination velocity. that means other tour players have supination/axial rotation and axial velocity recorded in the database that was been used by beasley. they were all tested using the same method.

you can deny, deny all you want but the fact is there is supination/axial rotation in many tour players and i believe there was in Hogan as well. the amount is up for debate but i believe there was some, especially with a weaker grip and the cupped wrist and the laid off club in transition. jmo.
[/quote]

And you know the method well enough to say it was supination?

And yes, I believe they got lot of supination. That can be seen even from videos and Elk even demonstrates that in Most powerful move video. Nothing to do with the case, nothing to do with Hogan either.

BTW.. it's funny you use word been instead of being like it should in that place. I know one guy who makes the same mistake also all the time...

[ray ray]

it's right on the lap top beasley was using it has supination right on it and she was reading from that figure when she made the axial velocity comment and she clearly shows a rotating forearm in the video as she explains to ayers what she is talking about , the video explains itself except for some who can't accept it.

and if you read carefully i said it was my opinion about Hogan, just like you have an opinion, you cannot dismiss or disprove my opinion as you have no solid evidence to the contrary as you said you don't know what Hogan did.


and you must be really a paranoid person with this constant insinuation that i'm some other person, let it go, lots of people make the same errors in typing words, it happens, and it was the word was not the word been, i should have said has been instead of was been, you certainly make many and get another hobby as amateur detective isn't your strong suit, it's getting old and boring. and you wonder why people get ticked off with you, stop with the transparent accusations.

you think that you have all the answers but you're sorely mistaken. anyone that disagrees with you must be someone else or the same person, what's your problem?

[TeeAce]

Read again Ray, what se does there got nothing to do with what I said. Martins / Elks release is totally different than Hogans. There needs to be lot op supination.

And you know, language, with all the mistakes, are like our fingerprint, you cant hide it...

[ray ray]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1351145988' post='5842819']
Read again Ray, what se does there got nothing to do with what I said. Martins / Elks release is totally different than Hogans. There needs to be lot op supination.

And you know, language, with all the mistakes, are like our fingerprint, you cant hide it...
[/quote]



you can't read i said it is my opinion, and you have no expertise in the english language that's obvious, when you think i made an error in the use of the word been, i didn't it was the word "was" i should of used have or has.

get a life. language is far from a fingerprint especially you trying to use one single word and the word wasn't the one you thought it was. been is correct ,being is not correct. take an english class....geeez! paranoid or what, you got some serious mental issues...wow!




is this a golf forum or an english language learning forum or is it a paranoid accusational forum and you got the nerve to say others are destroying threads, hypocritical of you i would say. get some help.

[TeeAce]

Once again exactly same words FW is using all the time... and also as far from topic and understanding like always. And there is not too many north american members active at this time of the night...

[ray ray]

you got some real problems, get some help you need it! you're keeping track of all the north americans and when they post, that's just plain crazy, you have some kind of mental health issue, i'll do it your way and let the moderators handle it. is this fw a member here? you keep bringing things from elsewhere, get a life already it's pathetic and disturbing!

[TeeAce]

[quote name='ray ray' timestamp='1351148346' post='5842857']
you got some real problems, get some help you need it! you're keeping track of all the north americans and when they post, that's just plain crazy, you have some kind of mental health issue, i'll do it your way and let the moderators handle it. is this fw a member here? you keep bringing things from elsewhere, get a life already it's pathetic and disturbing!
[/quote]

Thanks for your nice words and keeping this thread on topic.

[drewspin]

Elk: "Its going to be late, and it's going to be real fast."

Yep. That is the same as Hogan. Maintaining wrist c0ck (what Elk describes as "holding it") is also what Hogan did, IMO. The delay in the release, makes the rate of supination accelerate.

^^ This is leaving aside the confusion among some who are apparently unable to distinguish supination that occurs as a result of other moves vs. the INTENT to supinate.

[ej002]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1351142606' post='5842737']
[quote name='ray ray' timestamp='1351114142' post='5840795']
actually it was both elk and ayers compared to the PGA TOUR averages, so they were above the average of all the other tour players in axial/supination velocity. that means other tour players have supination/axial rotation and axial velocity recorded in the database that was been used by beasley. they were all tested using the same method.

you can deny, deny all you want but the fact is there is supination/axial rotation in many tour players and i believe there was in Hogan as well. the amount is up for debate but i believe there was some, especially with a weaker grip and the cupped wrist and the laid off club in transition. jmo.
[/quote]

And you know the method well enough to say it was supination?

And yes, I believe they got lot of supination. That can be seen even from videos and Elk even demonstrates that in Most powerful move video. Nothing to do with the case, nothing to do with Hogan either.

BTW.. it's funny you use word been instead of being like it should in that place. I know one guy who makes the same mistake also all the time...
[/quote]

They have supination. As I said Martin has a weak grip (like Hogan's) with club face that is open an additional 20* - from his videos, he is not nearly as open at impact as Hogan was. So there has to be a SUPINED forearm. What he is not doing is flipping or rolling his arms. They go from rolled up to unwound. The feeling is the clubhead dropps behind the body. It feels the opposite of supination. This is the containment part of the method.

[TeeAce]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1351268022' post='5849855']
[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1351142606' post='5842737']
[quote name='ray ray' timestamp='1351114142' post='5840795']
actually it was both elk and ayers compared to the PGA TOUR averages, so they were above the average of all the other tour players in axial/supination velocity. that means other tour players have supination/axial rotation and axial velocity recorded in the database that was been used by beasley. they were all tested using the same method.

you can deny, deny all you want but the fact is there is supination/axial rotation in many tour players and i believe there was in Hogan as well. the amount is up for debate but i believe there was some, especially with a weaker grip and the cupped wrist and the laid off club in transition. jmo.
[/quote]

And you know the method well enough to say it was supination?

And yes, I believe they got lot of supination. That can be seen even from videos and Elk even demonstrates that in Most powerful move video. Nothing to do with the case, nothing to do with Hogan either.

BTW.. it's funny you use word been instead of being like it should in that place. I know one guy who makes the same mistake also all the time...
[/quote]

They have supination. As I said Martin has a weak grip (like Hogan's) with club face that is open an additional 20* - from his videos, he is not nearly as open at impact as Hogan was. So there has to be a SUPINED forearm. What he is not doing is flipping or rolling his arms. They go from rolled up to unwound. The feeling is the clubhead dropps behind the body. It feels the opposite of supination. This is the containment part of the method.
[/quote]

What I see in Martins swing, tehere is lot of supination and they even demonstrate that in the video by hold hold hold release. That's one way to do it and can work, but produces totally different club head hand relation after impact.

[drewspin]

Martin is building in containment from the get go... the first internal move off the ball ... Hogan builds containment into the waggle practice move, and then replicates that on the downswing. Just my frivolous opinions.

[TeeAce]

[quote name='drewspin' timestamp='1351274731' post='5850411']
Martin is building in containment from the get go... the first internal move off the ball ... Hogan builds containment into the waggle practice move, and then replicates that on the downswing. Just my frivolous opinions.
[/quote]

And the waggle is more elbow move than many thinks.