How many Tour careers has Ledbetter wrecked so far?

[themouth1]

Most instructors have thier students tee the ball up while working on swing changes...

[Paul Stewart Jones]

Ok let's see, Lead teaches:

 

- stronger left hand grip.

- multiple ball positions.

- early wrist set.

- maintaining the angle of the right knee.

 

And do you notice that Leadbetter tees up his iron shots in order to demonstrate the drill he's sharing with us? The guy should teach golfers to put a ball in a divot and learn drills that way. You'll learn the drill that way while learning golf ball compression.

 

Other instructors say that Leadbetter had ruined most golfers because of his strong left grip.

 

Leadbetter, info for you. Just teach it right.

 

All Pro's tell their student to tee up the ball whilst learning something new...... Its the PGA manual.

 

While i was at JNR academy, I wasnt taught to have a strong left hand grip. Just usual two knuckles shown.

 

Once a month the top player from each group would go up to Orlando and work with lead for a 2 hours session. I found him very easy to work with and he was very simple. No early set for me, nore nothing about right knee.

 

When I arrived my current swing was ripped apart and worked with Jonathan Yarwood for the next 2/3 years on my swing. Iam much better player and learnt lots from Yarwood and the coaches at IMG.

[pb056]

from what i have heard he a has a number of young students who come and go from his golf schools??? can anybody elaborate on that?

 

 

Well he has his JNR Academy in Bradenton Florida, Been running since 98.

 

Casey whittenburg, Ty Tryon, Paula Creamer, Brittany Lang, Aree & Naree song, Juileta Grenada, Peter Uihlein, Jonathan Moore (who holed the winning putt in the walker cup). Virada Nirapathpongporn, Sean O'hair all have been enroled at the IMG academy in Bradenton.

 

Most worked with Jonathan Yarwood and Mark Reid.

 

 

yeah i was thinkin the numbers who just get booted out, i kno of few folk who go and judging by their experiences its a case of u will have to swing it this way in a kinda robotic way u kno, i appreciate they may have to expect that when they sign up but is it really a good idea to try to mass produce kids like that?

 

pb

[themouth1]

yeah i was thinkin the numvers who just get booted out, i kno of few folk who go and judging by their experiences its a case of u will have to swing it this way robot syle, i kno they may have to expect that when they sign up but is it really a good idea to try to mass produce kids like that?

 

pb

 

What???

[Furrankee]

Most instructors have thier students tee the ball up while working on swing changes...

 

Not my G.O.L.F. instructor.

 

Ok let's see, Lead teaches:

 

- stronger left hand grip.

- multiple ball positions.

- early wrist set.

- maintaining the angle of the right knee.

 

And do you notice that Leadbetter tees up his iron shots in order to demonstrate the drill he's sharing with us? The guy should teach golfers to put a ball in a divot and learn drills that way. You'll learn the drill that way while learning golf ball compression.

 

Other instructors say that Leadbetter had ruined most golfers because of his strong left grip.

 

Leadbetter, info for you. Just teach it right.

 

All Pro's tell their student to tee up the ball whilst learning something new...... Its the PGA manual.

 

While i was at JNR academy, I wasnt taught to have a strong left hand grip. Just usual two knuckles shown.

 

Once a month the top player from each group would go up to Orlando and work with lead for a 2 hours session. I found him very easy to work with and he was very simple. No early set for me, nore nothing about right knee.

 

When I arrived my current swing was ripped apart and worked with Jonathan Yarwood for the next 2/3 years on my swing. Iam much better player and learnt lots from Yarwood and the coaches at IMG.

 

Ever hear of Brian Manzella?

[Jrose]

I am not the biggest leads fan, however I can't believe that no one has mentioned Trevor Immelman, (of which I am a big fan of). Trevor has at the very least one of the top ten swings on tour.

[Paul Stewart Jones]

Booted out ??

 

No kids were booted out ?? Kids were only asked to leave if the coaches thought they werent putting 100% in to it. Same for Golf & tennis ( nick bollettieri is also in site) They proberly left because they got home sick or could take the gym at 6am, golf between 8am and 5pm everyday.

[Paul Stewart Jones]

Most instructors have thier students tee the ball up while working on swing changes...

 

Not my G.O.L.F. instructor.

 

Ok let's see, Lead teaches:

 

- stronger left hand grip.

- multiple ball positions.

- early wrist set.

- maintaining the angle of the right knee.

 

And do you notice that Leadbetter tees up his iron shots in order to demonstrate the drill he's sharing with us? The guy should teach golfers to put a ball in a divot and learn drills that way. You'll learn the drill that way while learning golf ball compression.

 

Other instructors say that Leadbetter had ruined most golfers because of his strong left grip.

 

Leadbetter, info for you. Just teach it right.

 

All Pro's tell their student to tee up the ball whilst learning something new...... Its the PGA manual.

 

While i was at JNR academy, I wasnt taught to have a strong left hand grip. Just usual two knuckles shown.

 

Once a month the top player from each group would go up to Orlando and work with lead for a 2 hours session. I found him very easy to work with and he was very simple. No early set for me, nore nothing about right knee.

 

When I arrived my current swing was ripped apart and worked with Jonathan Yarwood for the next 2/3 years on my swing. Iam much better player and learnt lots from Yarwood and the coaches at IMG.

 

Ever hear of Brian Manzella?

 

 

Ere yes.....? your point being that he doesnt tee up the ball when your working on something ?

[pb056]

yeah i was thinkin the numvers who just get booted out, i kno of few folk who go and judging by their experiences its a case of u will have to swing it this way robot syle, i kno they may have to expect that when they sign up but is it really a good idea to try to mass produce kids like that?

 

pb

 

What???

 

 

lol my typin wasnt great on that eh,

 

what im tryin to say in relation to the post was that, fair enough some players have came outta there but when u think bout the number of kids and struggle with his style of coachin. Obviously the kids that go there are talented beforehand but is it reasonable to expect all of them to all of a sudden switch to his idea's when in an earlier post someone mentioned leadbetter being more effective with more experienced players. The players he has tried to bring thru are not setting the heather on fire in the numbers they probably shud and was lookin at it from the point of him ruining careers b4 they started ??? is that a bit better :good:

[Paul Stewart Jones]

Yes, but what I found was that I could shot the scores...... but not everyday. SInce come out of there I have a much more repeat-able swing, thats what they try to coach. More consistance.

 

I know four or five kids that struggled with one way they taught, but the coaches are clever enough to teach it different ways or try something new and get results.

 

I would say most of the kids that leave get into NCAA div 1 colleges.

[pb056]

Yes, but what I found was that I could shot the scores...... but not everyday. SInce come out of there I have a much more repeat-able swing, thats what they try to coach. More consistance.

 

I know four or five kids that struggled with one way they taught, but the coaches are clever enough to teach it different ways or try something new and get results.

 

I would say most of the kids that leave get into NCAA div 1 colleges.

 

 

and that to bad but i bet with the number they have access to do u think that they are happy (not in a financial aspect) with pushing them at Div.1 . Maybe i have the wrong idea but they come across a school that prepares ppl for the tour? That is not a slate on NCAA golf by the way!!! ive played it and i kno 1st hand that there a lots of quality guys there.

[Paul Stewart Jones]

Yes, but what I found was that I could shot the scores...... but not everyday. SInce come out of there I have a much more repeat-able swing, thats what they try to coach. More consistance.

 

I know four or five kids that struggled with one way they taught, but the coaches are clever enough to teach it different ways or try something new and get results.

 

I would say most of the kids that leave get into NCAA div 1 colleges.

 

 

and that to bad but i bet with the number they have access to do u think that they are happy (not in a financial aspect) with pushing them at Div.1 . Maybe i have the wrong idea but they come across a school that prepares ppl for the tour? That is not a slate on NCAA golf by the way!!! ive played it and i kno 1st hand that there a lots of quality guys there.

 

 

But a lot of kids go there with the idea of getting their golf better so they can get into a better college. So if the kids are happy with the out come so are the coaches.

[Shaitan]

I don't know leadbetter's teachings and I don't follow them, but I think it is stupid for any teacher to teach with a tee for irons unless the players are new. How many times do you hit an iron off of a tee during a normal round? No tee=divot=ball compression and spin. When I'm hitting the ball poorly I find either a divot, board or hard dirt to practice off as I find this will teach you how to hit the ball quicksmart. My last lesson I had to widen my swing and i wasn't taking a divot, so it took about a round to fix it. If I had a tee, it would have taken me one round to realise the issues and think of how to fix it without changing my swing change and then practice and another round to get it right - in other words a waste of a lesson.

[Bruin_golf]

Every player that has been considered wrecked by Leadbetter seems to be a pretty good ball striker.

 

Guess what? Ball striking doesn't win tournaments!!!

 

Every player at the tour level can hit the ball.

 

Isn't it about getting it in the hole?

[mikpga]

How has Leadbetter wrecked any tour players' career?

[mikpga]

What does personal responsibility mean to anyone, anymore?

[scs1070]

Players have to know that when you go to Lead it's not just for a "tweak", it is an entire swing makeover. If they don't fully commit to it or it just doesn;'t work for them, the player is stuck out on a limb.

 

I also think a lot of players are chasing the perfect swing, a la Bob Tway.

[Czajker]

Mr. Leadbetter is someone anyone who teaches anyone else golf for a fee owes a portion of their fee to. He made it acceptable for golf instructors to charge premiums for premium instruction, and was really the first ego to enter the PGA Tour arena and take on the challenge to build champion golfers. Nick Faldo had his career wrecked? Rubbish - he won all his majors with David!

 

David is mechanical and set in his ways, and they aren't for every personality, but! Mr. Leadbetter is one of the only instructors I can think of that hasn't ripped off Homer Kelly and has had students go from "hardly recognizable" to "top 10 in the world." His understanding of the golf swing and other mechanics is second to none, and he is always worth listening to. I'm the first to admit that there is no one way to do anything in this world, but to say Leadbetter has wrecked careers is ridiculous.

[kiclub690]

"els is an exception to the fact. he always had great tempo, but he was strugglin with mechanics, so the move to lb would help him focus on what he needs, but allows him to hold onto what he has. he's not as desperate to go thru a total swing change it seems."

 

this is true but ernie already had the swing that leadbetter teaches...or atleast one that was very similar to it

[BogeyTrain]

Leadbetter has probably been a victim of statistics here. I am not a fan of his teachings but he is probably the most high profile teacher out there because he markets himself well and he runs essentially a farm system that churns out young proteges. Similar to Bolliteri's tennis camp (anybody remember Aaron Krickstein or Capriati). A lot of these young guns start off at a very high level of progression and some make it on tour but then level off very fast. So when the majority of Leadbetter's students do not live up to the hype, they are deemed to be failures.

 

Statistically, there are only so many that make it to the top, and with Tiger on the tour, it would probably create more statistics. As fans we are used to seeing el Tigre, Phil, Ernie, Sergio, and Vijay at the top of the leaderboard every week. There are claims that Lead better has ruined some of the tour player's out there, but that is probably because some of them were already in a decline (Seve) and were just looking for a fresh approach (Duval back problems and divorce) since their mental state was in tatters. Wie may or may not be a statistic, but she is still very young and has many good years of golf in her and her circumstances stem far from just her golf swing. This is the first and only time I will mention Ms. Wie in this or any other forum.

 

Did Pelz ruin Phil's short game when he failed to close the deal on so many failed majors? Did Rick Smith his ruin long game when he sliced a drive off the corporate tent at Winged Foot? Did Butch Harmon ruin Greg Norman's game for him not winning more majors? Not sure but having Ernie Els, Michael Campbell (remember US open winner), Charles Howell, and Trevor Immelman in your stable is not bad resume. Didn't he help turn around Nick Faldo's game? Maybe the tour pros know just a little bit more than us arm chair critics.

[imabeatonu]

I went to his junior academy and worked there this summer... i also work with one of his top guys at champions gate...justin rose left lead because lead was getting too technical for him (lead gets excited and has a tendency to this sometimes-he coaches the swing, he doesn't have enough time to coach the player, nor does he want to or have time for...he doesn't schedule the tournaments the player plays in (see michelle wie), when the player practices, works out, etc.) He has the knowledge to do so, he just cares more about the technique side of the game. In regards to Duval, David didn't change much if anything to his swing. In fact he told Duval to go back to the basics which made him good (ie. strong left hand grip with big body turn through the ball). Duval would be good again if he ever practiced. He just tinkered with Lead, Haney, and that just lead to paralysis by analysis. He never plays or practices ever since he got divorced. He needs serious help with his mental game if he wants to improve. Has anyone heard of Trevor Immelman? If he could putt he would easily be top 5 in the world. He has helped immensely with Els. Els tends to get sloppy and needs Lead's help every now and then. I remember hearing that he worked for weeks on posture alone. Nick Dougherty, he's pretty good uh? He struggled early on because he partied too much. Ty Tryon, came up with the mono excuse because he partied too much and it got out of control-he would be better now if he actually put any effort into improving. Lead didn't ruin Michelle Wie, her wrist did. Lead hates the fact that she continues to play even though she was hurt (her managers and sponsors and insane parents forced her to play through it). Lead definitely helps a ton more than hurts. He is also starting to use the k-vest which has helped to make vast improvements in very short periods of time (since it takes out the guesswork). Lead isn't at fault. The player is. Lead isn't responsible at the end of the day for the performance. The player is. The player needs to do more work with their mental games, (work with Dr. Bob Winters), try not to party hard, and care more about their health.

[glcoach]

CH III has one of the best swings ever BUT he really doesn't do a lot of the Leadbetter trademarks. BTW, CH III has had many instructors....the most influential being GSED George Kelenhofer, you didn't think Chuck Howell got all that LAG by working with Leadbetter did you?? Lately Howell has been working a little bit with another GSED Ben Doyle. Like I said MANY instructors, most of them being G.O.L.F. related.

 

Leadbetter hasn't ruined anyone. That is up to the player, but I would say by disseminating a lot of faulty information he has slowed the progress of quite a few. All of these stupid junior parents who know nothing of golf (like CH III's parents) send their kids to Leadbetter and because of his marketing they think he is the Jesus of the golf swing when in fact there is usually a much more qualified pro to teach your junior "prodigy" in your own hometown (like Kelenhofer was to Howell).

[Slugsy]

I can't believe Leadbetter is being blamed for wrecking careers - surely it is the player and his choices - if they didn't agree with what Leadbetter was saying to them or the results were not there then surely professional players have the backbone, intelligence and sense to go elsewhere?

 

Leadbetter is clearly a world class coach with his own set of ideas and methods, like many other coaches and I'm sure we could find a bunch of other players who have declined at some point and stick the blame on a coach, not just Leadbetter.

 

Some methods work for some, some don't - on a positive - what Leadbetter did for Faldo is beyond dispute, I remember studying Faldo a lot through the late 80's and early 90's and Leadbetter was massively influential in his swing - HOWEVER in the end Faldo had a great winning mentality to go with the mechanics and talent and that put him above the rest, not just the swing itself.

 

As Mike said previously and others have said, its down to the player ultimately and also there is more to winning then just swing mechanics.

[onkelbenz]

Leadbetter has probably been a victim of statistics here. I am not a fan of his teachings but he is probably the most high profile teacher out there because he markets himself well and he runs essentially a farm system that churns out young proteges. Similar to Bolliteri's tennis camp (anybody remember Aaron Krickstein or Capriati). A lot of these young guns start off at a very high level of progression and some make it on tour but then level off very fast. So when the majority of Leadbetter's students do not live up to the hype, they are deemed to be failures.

 

Statistically, there are only so many that make it to the top, and with Tiger on the tour, it would probably create more statistics. As fans we are used to seeing el Tigre, Phil, Ernie, Sergio, and Vijay at the top of the leaderboard every week. There are claims that Lead better has ruined some of the tour player's out there, but that is probably because some of them were already in a decline (Seve) and were just looking for a fresh approach (Duval back problems and divorce) since their mental state was in tatters. Wie may or may not be a statistic, but she is still very young and has many good years of golf in her and her circumstances stem far from just her golf swing. This is the first and only time I will mention Ms. Wie in this or any other forum.

 

Did Pelz ruin Phil's short game when he failed to close the deal on so many failed majors? Did Rick Smith his ruin long game when he sliced a drive off the corporate tent at Winged Foot? Did Butch Harmon ruin Greg Norman's game for him not winning more majors? Not sure but having Ernie Els, Michael Campbell (remember US open winner), Charles Howell, and Trevor Immelman in your stable is not bad resume. Didn't he help turn around Nick Faldo's game? Maybe the tour pros know just a little bit more than us arm chair critics.

 

I believe Campbell was with Yarwood when he won the US Open. Although that may be an extension of Leadbetters teaching (I'm not sure about that tough). Otherwise this is all interesting but let's face it, instructors are what they are, instructors. The players seek their advice, whether they take and use it (for good) is another matter.

And I'd agree with other posters here that when going with a swing instructor you are either committed to it or otherwise it's going to interfere more than help. But that's not only the case with Leadbetter, also Harmon and Haney and many others.

 

OB

[scores]

Mr. Leadbetter is someone anyone who teaches anyone else golf for a fee owes a portion of their fee to. He made it acceptable for golf instructors to charge premiums for premium instruction, and was really the first ego to enter the PGA Tour arena and take on the challenge to build champion golfers. Nick Faldo had his career wrecked? Rubbish - he won all his majors with David!

 

David is mechanical and set in his ways, and they aren't for every personality, but! Mr. Leadbetter is one of the only instructors I can think of that hasn't ripped off Homer Kelly and has had students go from "hardly recognizable" to "top 10 in the world." His understanding of the golf swing and other mechanics is second to none, and he is always worth listening to. I'm the first to admit that there is no one way to do anything in this world, but to say Leadbetter has wrecked careers is ridiculous.

 

 

He is not the first and decades away from the first however way back when you could not just jump on a plane or send video over the internet. (harmon toski)"PGA Tour arena" have been out there and yes they charged a fee.

 

He had a interview on tgc and is stating Wie will be back. Her wrist was no 100% when she came back and this was the reason for some bad habits. Injuries do lead to bad habits in the golf swing but only time will tell.

 

I think the only one in Wie's way is Wie!!

[seve94]

In 1994 Leadbetter said "Seve used to be long and wayward, now he is short and wayward, and his mechanics are really bad." Funny that, since Seve won 2 events after this comment and was hitting it really straight under the tuition of Mac O'Grady. Anyone think he was jealous, mmmmmmm?

[birdie_man]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned David Gossett.

 

Not sure of the exact story and you never really are (although last time I saw Michelle Wie was reverse-pivoting with a driver....).....but yet another player to add to the list I guess.

 

Pair that with ho-hum instruction and yikes it's fishy. (LEAD POISON)

[scores]

I am a fan of Dana after that Video and would love to learn more about MORAD golf and intent on learning more about MORAD golf.

 

I was wondering if mac o grady has some young players he is working with that may make the jump to the PGA tour?

 

I will say Grant Waites swing is just great!!!

[hayam]

Dana is a cool guy. In fact he helped me tons to understand his swing.

 

Coming to leadbetter. I think he wrecked alot of our local boys swing, they went usa to train for 6 months under him and came back with a wierd looking swing. He knows how to brand himself for sure. IMO... from the stuffs I hear around here.. its the leg action that kills the transition... but thats hearsay..

[Gstv]

I was wondering if mac o grady has some young players he is working with that may make the jump to the PGA tour?

 

Mac himself is playing in Q-School

 

http://pgatq.bluegolf.com/bluegolf/pgatq7/...rt=name&l=A