First Vintage Blades: How Old Is Too Old?

[Monstrocity]

I'm, 30-something, and poor at golf.  I'm occasionally in the 90's with my Wilson/Staff D7's, none the less, I love all things classic and classic golf appeals greatly to me.  I had the opportunity to purchase Hogan Apex 1,3,4,5 persimmon woods, in beautiful shape, for just under $50.  Now I need a set of irons. 

 

I'm a Wilson fan for both the history and many of my favorite golf biographies have been about Wilson players.  I've spent countless hours looking at the red book.  From this forum, I see both the 1971 Button Backs and 1986 Fluid Feel Tour Blades are considered great classic sets.  Both are visually appealing to me.  

 

• I have a local opportunity to buy a set of the Dynapower Button Backs, but would it be better for me to wait to find a playable 1986 set?  

 

• Did technology advance that much between 1971 and 1986, or was forging more or less perfected by the 1969 Bullet Backs?  

 

• If I opt for Button Backs, would it be a sin to have them resifted with Dynamic Gold shafts that match my swing speed and height? 

 

• What about the 1976 Staff Model's?  Are the 1986's smoother because of the button on the bottom?  

Edited October 13, 2023 by Monstrocity

[cold_war_era_golfer]

I can tell you are already a better golfer than me because you have a shaft dedicated to your swing length and speed.  Take everything in this post with a grain of salt.

 

I'm 41 years old and started golfing 3 years ago.  And I only play vintage irons, woods, and putters, I've never swung a graphite shaft.  

 

My only advice is play as many of them as you can get your hands on.  They are relatively cheap if you live in the USA on eBay.  It's a slippery slope!

 

I've owned the more recent 1984,1987, and 1989 Fluid Feel Wilson blades.  I guess one would assume the technology had advanced for better shafts and tighter tolerances in heads coming off the assembly line? Some of those have the DG shafts you mention.  I score about the same with those as I do my beloved 60s Top Flite irons.

 

My preferred Wilson Staff is the 1960-61 Dyna Powered.  I played with a set of 1989 Fluid Feel blades 4 times last month and one thing that did stick out was how much lighter they are than the 1960s and 50s blades.  Which I feel like if you are thinking about dipping into the 70s and 80s you should go a little further and feel those heavier blades, preferably ones with the original leather grips.  Nothing, IMO is better in the vintage golf world than a set of irons that were new when a young Arnold Palmer was walking the golf course, Sam Snead(Turf Riders) and Julius Boros('58 arrow hosel) still had something left in the tank, and a young Jack Nicklaus was playing Flamed Ceramic MacGregors.  

 

 

 

 

[Foozle]

1 hour ago, Monstrocity said:

I'm, 30-something, and poor at golf.  I'm occasionally in the 90's with my Wilson/Staff D7's, none the less, I love all things classic and classic golf appeals greatly to me.  I had the opportunity to purchase Hogan Apex 1,3,4,5 persimmon woods, in beautiful shape, for just under $50.  Now I need a set of irons. 

 

I'm a Wilson fan for both the history and many of my favorite golf biographies have been about Wilson players.  I've spent countless hours looking at the red book.  From this forum, I see both the 1971 Button Backs and 1986 Fluid Feel Tour Blades are considered great classic sets.  Both are visually appealing to me.  

 

• I have a local opportunity to buy a set of the Dynapower Button Backs, but would it be better for me to wait to find a playable 1986 set?  

 

• Did technology advance that much between 1971 and 1986, or was forging more or less perfected by the 1969 Bullet Backs?  

 

• If I opt for Button Backs, would it be a sin to have them resifted with Dynamic Gold shafts that match my swing speed and height? 

 

• What about the 1976 Staff Model's?  Are the 1986's smoother because of the button on the bottom?  

If you have a chance of '71 Botton Backs at sensible money, I would grab them and try them. If you don't like them, pass them on.

As @cold_war_era_golfersays, vintage clubs are quite cheap and part of the joy is experimenting. You may be surprised what you like / works for you. You may also be disappointed if you build up too much expectation on a specific set. Keep an open mind and enjoy "playing the field".

I am a huge sceptic and personally, when it comes to pure blade design, don't believe technology, forging or otherwise, has moved on significantly in the last 60 years, never mind 71 - 86. Some of the best feel and performance i have experienced comes from 50+ year old sets although you do have to make mental adjustments for traditional lofts and shaft lengths. 

I love the '76 Staff's, probably my Wilson pick but everyone on here will have different choices as to their favourites.

Go play and enjoy!

[ezgoer]

 Bear with my novel writing and also take with a grain of salt. I agree with everything said. Keep your mind open. The stuff you stumble on is almost always cheaper than the stuff you search out. There was so many great clubs and other than us nobody wants them. Initially I started as a MacGregor guy. I’m now just a cool old golf club guy and have lots of favorites other than just Mac’s. I would say I’d be careful getting partial sets especially if you’re an all clubs need to match kinda person. Often filling out a set with even just 1 club can double even triple the price you initially spent. 
 

 Far as technology yes there’s been steps forward on super game improvement stuff but on a traditional style of iron I’m not so sure it’s anywhere near what is being represented. I’m finding back to as early as 1950’s. Don’t get stuck on only forged carbon steel also. 50’s stainless steel are interesting if you ever get the opportunity to try. I stumbled on a set of SS 54 Top Flite Synchro-dyned irons and was completely shocked at how modern they felt and played. If you could hit a ball blindfolded you wouldn’t know you’re hitting a 70 year old club. Sure there’s others from that era. Seems to me the 50’s and 60’s iron’s play heavier and in a good kinda way.
For sure the Mac’s, that 50’s Propel 1 iron shaft and C wood shaft is a lot of shaft for most anyone. Sure whatever Wilson had at that time would be similar. STAFF irons up to FG17 all seem to be pretty flawless. 
 

 Leather grips are a treasure and a curse. Feeling in your hands and coolness is off the charts but if you’re use to midsize or oversized grips you could be in trouble. Not all but it’s amazing to me how often a heavy stiff club has a leather grip that is barely standard size nowadays. Pretty sure it’s the equivalent of killing a bald eagle cutting off good leather grips. 

 I’m not a great golfer either. Can play bogey golf anywhere, usually 4-6 better than that but scorecard is often very lob sided between nines so definition of erratic. No denying 460cc drivers are far superior in playability forgiveness wise, woods/hybrids in general, but the rest seems to be way more techno-sales-speak. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by ezgoer

[Maine Golfer]

Im 35 and just got back the last 2 year of playing golf as an adult (played HS golf).  Im getting better, but Im not great. 29 hnp but can play well within 150, at the par 3 course I can shoot 2-3 over on 9. I love old clubs. Its all about passion, I don't think you have to play sub 20 handicap to play blades at all. Its a simple question, is it enjoyable for you to play them?  For me I adore it and always have my 2 and 3 cavity back Ping Zing's to help me and maybe a hybird.  

 

I can't speak to the reshafting details of the pre 80 ones, but I think some are other sizes? Ill let other's reply to that.  I have a set of Wilson Staff Goosenecks 88 that are my favorite blades.  You can find various 80s Wilson Blades cheap and they are modern length (which is key for me cause I add +1). Something to consider , the 80s may be a great starting point. I think you could easily find a 80s Wilson Staff set under $100.  

[Stephen8802]

I have and play all the Staff models. Anything after ‘67 will be great, and you would probably like ‘60 on. I personably prefer Bullet Backs, but just played my set of ‘76s and they play as well as any club I’ve ever hit.

 

As for shafts, play what ever shafts you like, whatever grips feel good. They are golf clubs, not investments, do whatever makes them feel right . I put DG S300s in both my ‘67 and ‘69 Staffs, and the ‘76s I just hit have freshly installed 6.0s. Do your thing, what ever makes you smile. 
 

Try to get the concept of good and better out of you head. They are just golf clubs, all those Staffs are great to play, and thinking that Bullet Backs or FG 17s or Line Overs are the difference will just mess you up. Put a good swing on any of those sets and you will love your shot.

 

Now I’m a Staff guy, and it sounds like you are too, but don’t walk by a set of Apex IIs with 4 shafts if you see them. Those are some sweet sticks and will make you happy.

[bcstones]

@Monstrocity    I'm an old coot....forget about brand, forget about everything & TRY EVERYTHING you can get your hands on. Don't pay much attention to retail vs pro shope on clubs prior to 1993 (that is just me,  my picking on a date - it's the year of Hogan's stepping down from the Hogan Golf Co business (tho, I'm probablly waaaa off) ). My greatest interest is finding a 1958 H&B Grand Slam Mars 70 starter set of clubs, these were my first set of clubs (only the putter is left & is my in-the-bag putter even now, 65 years later (see, I AM an old coot) .

Some on this site (& I've come across some Pro's who feel the same way) that retail are bottom of the barrel, if not actually raccoon scat - ain't necessarily so. A clubhead, shaft & grip might be pro-shop only one year and the next year, due to a new pro-shop only line...that former pro-shop becomes retail (that's the business of golf - bottom line is $$$). Just don't look down your nose at clubs that were offered by retail or hardware stores, etc....just remember that an excellent clubhead w/a 2nd level shaft & grip, it can be easily upgraded to a shaft that better suits you w/a grip that best suits you. Nothing is carved in stone.
Anyway, the thing is - ask questions (I probably have pissed off a few people here, cuz I incessantly ask questions - how else are ya gonna learn?). Get ahold of Maltby's Guide 1950-98 (I think it's dropped in price since it's the last edition) or Kaplan't for MacGregor, Wilson, H&B/PowerBilt (there is a 2nd edition out there that goes further than the original ones like I have)...Lots of info from alot of very knowledgeable people in this part of the forum. Check out the builders, the designers (Jeff Sheets comes to mind) for information.

Now, of course, I'll throw in my 2 cents worth - I enjoy the '91 Hogan Magnun Plus, the mid 70s Haig Ultra 66, the late 70s Browning 440's...I have acquired a '50s H&B Grand Slam Atlas retail iron set....I've also acquired a couple of sets of John Letters irons from the UK ( @Jiggered has an excellent YouTube site that mostly focus' on clubs across the Eastern pond).
 

So hit the thrift store, the garage sales, the estate sales & see what turns up....Vintage golfing is fun and educationable 🥸

Edited October 13, 2023 by bcstones

[SnowbirdTom]

If you do Facebook, check your local marketplace listings.  I’ve scored several nice and complete iron sets for a song.  We’re talking a $20 bill and most came with a bag!  Yeah, most needed new rubber grips, so throw some Karmas on from Amazon to get them on the course to play. Plenty of videos on how to do that on You Tube and it’s easy work. If you decide they’re keepers, you can change to better grips when the Karmas wear out.

 

Also, join the FB Persimmon Golf Society group and read a bunch.  They also have a for sale page with deals that pop up regularly.

 

Frankly, I prefer the ‘60s clubs for the weight and playability.  Wilson TurfRiders, Spalding Top Flites, Louisville Grand Slams all play nice and handle a bunch of turf conditions.

[Maine Golfer]

60s , 70s or 80s whatever you decide, you can do this sub $100 easy. 

[Thinset]

FWIW, I play the 69-71 bulletbacks and buttonbacks, and the 76-77 Staff "mini-bullets" and Staff Tour Blades.  I prefer the 69-71 sets.  The buttonbacks have the original (?) Ultralite R flex shafts.  I've read here (?) that the Ultralites are essentially the same shaft as the TT DGR300s, and I wouldn't argue the point as I can't tell the playing difference.  If I had to jettison 3 sets and only keep one, I'd keep the original buttonbacks- they're that good.  

If I only had the one set of buttonbacks and could only buy one more set of irons, I'd hold out for a set of early '80s Ram Tour Grind musclebacks.  Happily, I already have a set of these, also.  

I'm not a fan of Hogan irons, as they just don't grab me emotionally, so think of that what you will.  

Have fun with whatever you end up with.  

 

[dashanks]

On 10/13/2023 at 10:51 AM, Monstrocity said:

I'm, 30-something, and poor at golf.  I'm occasionally in the 90's with my Wilson/Staff D7's, none the less, I love all things classic and classic golf appeals greatly to me.  I had the opportunity to purchase Hogan Apex 1,3,4,5 persimmon woods, in beautiful shape, for just under $50.  Now I need a set of irons. 

 

I'm a Wilson fan for both the history and many of my favorite golf biographies have been about Wilson players.  I've spent countless hours looking at the red book.  From this forum, I see both the 1971 Button Backs and 1986 Fluid Feel Tour Blades are considered great classic sets.  Both are visually appealing to me.  

 

• I have a local opportunity to buy a set of the Dynapower Button Backs, but would it be better for me to wait to find a playable 1986 set?  

 

• Did technology advance that much between 1971 and 1986, or was forging more or less perfected by the 1969 Bullet Backs?  

 

• If I opt for Button Backs, would it be a sin to have them resifted with Dynamic Gold shafts that match my swing speed and height? 

 

• What about the 1976 Staff Model's?  Are the 1986's smoother because of the button on the bottom?  

I've tried a lot of the old Wilson blades and for me the easiest to hit by far were the 85/86 Staff Tour Blades.   They are also called "LineOvers" because of the logo.  Pretty beefy soles for a blade puts lots of weight down there in the bottom and helps get the ball up.  Good luck and have fun whatever you choose.

[Yacho]

Love my '76 Staffs. Can't go wrong there.

 

But completing the Hogan set is a worthwhile endeavor as well.  I'd push you towards the '88 Apex Redlines if you're looking for blades that are easier to hit.

[Swingingk]

22 hours ago, Thinset said:

FWIW, I play the 69-71 bulletbacks and buttonbacks, and the 76-77 Staff "mini-bullets" and Staff Tour Blades.  I prefer the 69-71 sets.  The buttonbacks have the original (?) Ultralite R flex shafts.  I've read here (?) that the Ultralites are essentially the same shaft as the TT DGR300s, and I wouldn't argue the point as I can't tell the playing difference.  If I had to jettison 3 sets and only keep one, I'd keep the original buttonbacks- they're that good.  

If I only had the one set of buttonbacks and could only buy one more set of irons, I'd hold out for a set of early '80s Ram Tour Grind musclebacks.  Happily, I already have a set of these, also.  

I'm not a fan of Hogan irons, as they just don't grab me emotionally, so think of that what you will.  

Have fun with whatever you end up with.  

 

Ditto on the above for me.  Original buttonbacks all the way.  There's some kinda magic in those things.  I too get along swimmingly with the old Ultralite regular shafts.  I've read they are very similar to the TT Lite shaft.  And yes they are quite light - about 106g for regular flex 6-iron shaft if I remember correctly.  Or was is 110g?...  Not sure but somewhere in that range.

[elwhippy]

I wouldn't go back past 1980. Mizuno moved the blade category forward with the TP Original  MS1, MS3, MS5 and MS7. Maxfli Pro Specials, John Letters Master Models and the ICW 5 would be good starting points.