The Golfing Machine

[birdie_man]

It looks to me like the "important thing" is creating a money making business out of golf instruction. Either that or finding as complex a theory as possible to enable endless discussions, like college kids smoking cigarettes at some coffee house.

 

If the goal was really to help people play better golf then an instructor would learn the proper grip, posture, and alignment. And teach those basic fundamentals.

A player doesn't need any instruction beyond basic fundamentals. Once instruction goes past that then paralysis by analysis sets in and the player is doomed. Doyle and all the TGM disciples are the worst of the lot for making the swing way too complicated. But other quacks like McClean and Ledbetter are not too far behind.

 

p.s. the video camera is about the worst thing that ever happened to golf instruction.

 

The important thing is to help people play better golf

 

No one is taking you seriously, frozen_rope. (dope)

 

Its half glass empty or half glass full.!

 

Not sure what you mean at all H. Always gotta try and see er as half full though buddy.

[hayam]

just agreeing with you..birdy.

[hannul]

Just a comment on money making ... and Ben Doyle.

 

I ordered the golfing machine a month ago. I didn't order the latest edition so I ended up paying something like 16 dollars.

I live in Finland so the postage that was paid by Doyle was 9 dollars.

 

I hope I made him rice... If I did, he is truely a guru...

[glcoach]

Well, that would make complete sense then........I've heard nothing but good about Mr. Orr and a few other TGM teachers, Manzella, Rob Noel, Mr. Evans, obviously Mr. Doyle and Mike Bender........what gets a bit under my skin are guy's who "claim" superiority, but, when you take a CLOSE look they've NEVER developed ONE single player to even a D-1 ride......but, they act like they are the "2nd coming".......I have a LOT more respect for a teacher like Randy Smith whose developed 3 all the way to the top......from scratch......THAT get's my attention.........for whatever that's worth.....JMOP.......

 

 

I certainly agree with where you are coming from......because I have been there. I coach HS golf and my job is basically to develop players when they get to me as freshman. What I do is find out who the best athletes are whose dads play golf and get them to play and we have to start from square 1 and it is HARD. If they can get it airborne and learn to chip and putt as freshman I feel like coach of the decade, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it does.....you feel really good and proud of your accomplishments. Lately I have gotten players with a little background and it has been great. There isn't a whole lot of opportunity for Jr. Golf here in NW Georgia.

 

Anyway, I know totally where you are coming from and even though I haven't developed someone to a D-1 ride, I've taught a lot how to play and hit it decent, which has been really cool.

[fats]

Geoff, I think Hayam was referring to his believing that David Orr and Machinegolfer are superior in the way they present TGM. I don't think he was talking about TGM being superior to everyone and everything...

 

I for one have learned the most about the golf swing by studying TGM material..It helps me understand how other stuff works....there is merit to most everything out there. And TGM once again, is NOT a method. It is a catalog, meant to describe all patterns, some TGM teachers latch on to pet components and procedures and then try to put TGM in a little box, kind of like how the Baptists do with Jesus, but everyone else knows it doesn't work that way.

 

Forgive my reference to religion, but that is the closest I can come to explaining what it's like among the "instructors who don't get along" it is basically different interpretations of the same book and adopting some things as being more important than others.

 

Nerdy little "scripture quoters" will never help anything.....application, as with most things, is the real key

 

 

Well, that would make complete sense then........I've heard nothing but good about Mr. Orr and a few other TGM teachers, Manzella, Rob Noel, Mr. Evans, obviously Mr. Doyle and Mike Bender........what gets a bit under my skin are guy's who "claim" superiority, but, when you take a CLOSE look they've NEVER developed ONE single player to even a D-1 ride......but, they act like they are the "2nd coming".......I have a LOT more respect for a teacher like Randy Smith whose developed 3 all the way to the top......from scratch......THAT get's my attention.........for whatever that's worth.....JMOP.......

 

 

I agree Slicefixer. I've had teachers putting me on their list when I was flying Delta over their place in Orlando...LOL...Proof of what you are saying is in the 9 to 3 drill video of yours...those kids have incredible actions!!! The best I've ever seen quite frankly and they've been with you from day one...Those who help extremely talented and highly successful pro golfers are not doing a heck of a lot as far as changes go...it goes more into the golf tip category...I remember one teacher approached me on the practice tee...he wanted to give me some lessons...he said..."It'll be MY way or the HIGHWAY" ... We were in Florida at the time...I asked him where he lived...he said just South of here...I said..."Well, after you leave the golf course take your first left and get on HIGHWAY I-95 South!!" ROFL

[hayam]

David Orr for example have develop golfer from all range as well.. Dana have different types of students as well. Mike Mcnary even developed Jeffy.

 

D1 part. don't quite agree. all very competent in that section as well.

 

There is a huge list in front of David Orr page, and he remade a few absolutely worst golfers into very competent player.. scratch or competing.. Those who never advertise fiercely will get beaten to death i guess...

[FlyFish]

I always find it amusing that people equate The Golfing Machine with a religion or a belief system. It is supposed to be a science. It was Homer Kelley's attempt to quantify the golf swing and establish common terminology to discuss the golf swing. Most of the book just deals with the different components of the golf swing.

 

The fundamental essence of all (proper) science is that you are constantly testing and re-testing theories and commonly accepted fact against newly found evidence. Like others have pointed out, Homer released 6 editions. Joe Daniels just release the 7th. Other GSED's have gone their own way and expanded on The Golfing Machine with theories based on their own findings.

 

BTW, I picked up The Impact Zone - it does appear to be strongly TGM influenced. I'm enjoying it so far.

[slicefixer]

David Orr for example have develop golfer from all range as well.. Dana have different types of students as well. Mike Mcnary even developed Jeffy.

 

D1 part. don't quite agree. all very competent in that section as well.

 

There is a huge list in front of David Orr page, and he remade a few absolutely worst golfers into very competent player.. scratch or competing.. Those who never advertise fiercely will get beaten to death i guess...

 

 

Hayam........go back and READ what I posted.........BOTH posts........ :good: One other thing, I know it's "Old School," but, IMOP IF a person is REALLY good they don't have to advertise......IMOP......

[dfw1500]

All the ones who do the most advertising area also the ones that seem to big themselves up big time and also sound extremely big headed IMOP this is not aimed at them all but a percentage of the players who overdo the advertising and say too much about themselves.

 

The Golfing machine is a great book but some of the coaches do treat the book as the bible and that all other great golf instructors learnt what they know from the book or if they did not they are fallable in some way shape or form.........A guy i know who is a GSEM and is very knowledgable about the swing I went on a course for the book that he did and although he was very informative and knew the book very very well he seemed closed off to anything else and IMOP is going to prevent himself fropm being one of the best by pigeon holing himself with his philosophy that the book has all the answers.......when as stated earlier if the book was the all seeing eye then it would not have been revised 7 times.

[Machinegolfer]

All the ones who do the most advertising area also the ones that seem to big themselves up big time and also sound extremely big headed IMOP this is not aimed at them all but a percentage of the players who overdo the advertising and say too much about themselves.

 

The Golfing machine is a great book but some of the coaches do treat the book as the bible and that all other great golf instructors learnt what they know from the book or if they did not they are fallable in some way shape or form.........A guy i know who is a GSEM and is very knowledgable about the swing I went on a course for the book that he did and although he was very informative and knew the book very very well he seemed closed off to anything else and IMOP is going to prevent himself fropm being one of the best by pigeon holing himself with his philosophy that the book has all the answers.......when as stated earlier if the book was the all seeing eye then it would not have been revised 7 times.

 

I think what is most misunderstand, are the differences in editions are subtle, not life altering to TGM, sometimes its as simple as taking one thing and putting it in another chapter/section... yes some TGM instructors are by the book only, but that does not account for the other TGM instructors who have learned, studied, studied under other world renowned teachers, and conduct their own research to continually keep learning and helping others, do not fault all for some

[hayam]

SF, understand where your coming from . Just didn't think that they deserve that kind of bad rap due to a some bad apples. Their name is placed so closed together and I may have misunderstood it a little ..

[slicefixer]

NO worries hayam........I probably should have just kept my mouth shut anyway.......or keyboard quiet...... :good:

[golfasaurus]

Wow...I just ask where to get some assistant and saw what this thread has become.

Just want to make 2 points here. First, i believe every swing thought have their merits and will work for the wide spectrum of golfers (since we have different builts and athelethic abilities).

 

Second, I am here to discover and enjoy the game. Hope everyone shares that view. Time to hit the range :good:

[birdie_man]

Heh ya.....CONTROVERSIAL SUBJECT. (danger!!)

 

Maybe I get too into it at times.

 

It's a point in itself though: not all "TGM(ish) stuff" is equal.

[Ryan_Smither]

Is there a more complete golf instruction book on any of your shelves?

 

(Crickets)

 

Not bad for a guy that passed away a few decades ago.