Lawn Mower Move

[dlygrisse]

What is it?

I have heard Hardy's lawn mower move described numerous times throughout this forum. I am assuming it has something to do with the arm/elbow path on the backswing. Could someone please help a guy out and give me a good description or picture of this move.

Just curious

[Kerry_Bunker]

Grab the lawnmower cord with your right hand and just pull like stink, just like you were trying to start up your old 2 stroke Lawn Boy for the first time after a solid Ontario winter (BTW it never starts on the first 7 pulls). This means that your right elbow will get at least even or even behind your "shirt seam" by the time you get to the top of your back swing just as Hardy personally recommends in his DVD Series (OPS). Another way to think about it is the action your right arm would have if you were sawing a piece of wood.

 

And Hardy clearly and distinctly states (in the DVD Series) the farther behind your body the right elbow travels, the better.

 

You didn't ask for my take on the move, but for what its worth, about one year later I am still trying to "mis-remember" the feeling as my right elbow seems to have an aversion to my front side in trying to train that bad boy to get it into proper "pitch" position.

[dlygrisse]

Sounds similar to what Baddely is doing, would that be accurate?

[kosmosspoetz]

Nope. Badds keeps his right elbow low and close to his side. He does not try to get his right elbow as high and as behind him as possible.

[Kerry_Bunker]

No sir.

 

From what I have read Baddeley is trying to keep his right elbow from getting to far from his right side. He would attempt to keep a tee under his right armpit throughout the entire swing.

 

The Hardy OPS would cause the tee to fall out very early in the BS.

 

I will give you a link to a Hardy swing on PM that features this arm action that I just found on Youtube.

[dlygrisse]

No sir.

 

From what I have read Baddeley is trying to keep his right elbow from getting to far from his right side. He would attempt to keep a tee under his right armpit throughout the entire swing.

 

The Hardy OPS would cause the tee to fall out very early in the BS.

 

I will give you a link to a Hardy swing on PM that features this arm action that I just found on Youtube.

 

 

Thanks, looking in slow mo I dont see his elbow getting behind his shirt seam, seems to be dead in synch, maybe it is more feel than real as they say.

[Dariusz J.]

Just to add..."lawnmower move" at the beginning of backswing is rather proper for 2-plane converts who used to be too up and shallow with their backswing lead by their arms.

Natural one planers should not pay attention to it, IMHO, since they usually are deep enough thanks to great body turn as e.g. Hogan or Trevino, who never were famous of "lawnmowering" and are best one planers that walked this planet on :yes:

 

Cheers

[eightiron]

The concept is based on more than just the lawnmower move. The idea is to help players who get to in and up and across the line at the top of their swing. The lawnmower move is combined with more waist bend and a rotated shoulder turn ( left shoulder down / right shoulder up i.e Baddeley uses this component) and then the arms getting "thrown" behind the body so the left arm matches the shoulder turn. Hard to really describe but try getting some footage of Scott Mccarron Tome Pernice Peter Jacobsen

[Lake]

What the right elbow does in the backswing & downswing is directly related to the action of the left wrist. At address the left wrist is basically perpindicular to the inclined plane of the golf swing...if you keep the left wrist perpindicular to the plane during the takeaway the right elbow will go back, up, & in similar to the motion of starting a lawnmower...if you turn the left hand to plane(palm the plane) the left elbow & forearms will rotate clockwise into "pitch elbow" position. During the downswing if you rotate your left wrist/forearms counter clockwise the clubface leading edge will return back to perpindicular to the plane and put the right elbow into a punch like or push position outside of the right hip vs. keeping the left wrist palming the plane which would bring your right elbow in a pitch like position in front of your right hip.

 

These two different ways to propel the club (push vs. pull) were first outlined by Homer Kelly in "The Golfing Machine"...hitting(pushing) & swinging(pulling)... There are many different component relationships that follow each route. The goal is to find "the way" that works best for you and put the pieces together.

 

IMOP, the majority of the best instructors teach "swinging"-pulling.....however, several instructors do teach pushing in their arsenal as a very viable option. The problem in pushing the shaft is that the left wrist is in a very vulnerable position perpindicular to the plane...meaning it is in a position to where it could "bend".."cup".."breakdown" prior to impact...causing poor angle of attack, clubface alignment, and plane. The only thing that can support the left wrist in this condition is a driving(supporting) right arm w/ a bent right wrist that is "pushing" the left arm/wrist/clubshaft through the impact interval. The problem a lot of folks run into with this is that they push with the right arm too soon(running out of right arm prior to impact). The correct feeling is that the clubshaft is being accelerated past impact....the only way to get this feeling is to have the right elbow still bent at impact and straightening/firing/driving through & past impact w/ a bent right wrist

 

If you keep the left wrist palming the plane it cannot "bend".."cup".."breakdown"...it can only **** & uncock & when you pull the left hand it will feel like a karate chop w/ a clubface that is laying flat(horizontal) to the plane angle...when the pulling force is halted by the rotation of the pivot hitting its end points(breaking naturally due to joint restrictions) centrifugal force or whatever you want to call it causes the left wrist to roll the clubface w/o any effort into a squarish position during the impact interval w/o any breakdown. The major problem folks have with this technique is that they bend the plane line left(over the top) probably because of a fear of slicing due to the clubface position...or they quit turning/pulling too soon causing an over-roll of the left wrist or a breakdown. Also, any manual overide of the clubface by the hands throws everything off and typically leads to eratic ball flight.

 

IMOP, the left wrist is the #1 reason why handicaps stay at a high average...educating the hands and what is powering the club is the first piece to a very big puzzle :yes:

[eightiron]

What the right elbow does in the backswing & downswing is directly related to the action of the left wrist. At address the left wrist is basically perpindicular to the inclined plane of the golf swing...if you keep the left wrist perpindicular to the plane during the takeaway the right elbow will go back, up, & in similar to the motion of starting a lawnmower...if you turn the left hand to plane(palm the plane) the left elbow & forearms will rotate clockwise into "pitch elbow" position. During the downswing if you rotate your left wrist/forearms counter clockwise the clubface leading edge will return back to perpindicular to the plane and put the right elbow into a punch like or push position outside of the right hip vs. keeping the left wrist palming the plane which would bring your right elbow in a pitch like position in front of your right hip.

 

These two different ways to propel the club (push vs. pull) were first outlined by Homer Kelly in "The Golfing Machine"...hitting(pushing) & swinging(pulling)... There are many different component relationships that follow each route. The goal is to find "the way" that works best for you and put the pieces together.

 

IMOP, the majority of the best instructors teach "swinging"-pulling.....however, several instructors do teach pushing in their arsenal as a very viable option. The problem in pushing the shaft is that the left wrist is in a very vulnerable position perpindicular to the plane...meaning it is in a position to where it could "bend".."cup".."breakdown" prior to impact...causing poor angle of attack, clubface alignment, and plane. The only thing that can support the left wrist in this condition is a driving(supporting) right arm w/ a bent right wrist that is "pushing" the left arm/wrist/clubshaft through the impact interval. The problem a lot of folks run into with this is that they push with the right arm too soon(running out of right arm prior to impact). The correct feeling is that the clubshaft is being accelerated past impact....the only way to get this feeling is to have the right elbow still bent at impact and straightening/firing/driving through & past impact w/ a bent right wrist

 

If you keep the left wrist palming the plane it cannot "bend".."cup".."breakdown"...it can only **** & uncock & when you pull the left hand it will feel like a karate chop w/ a clubface that is laying flat(horizontal) to the plane angle...when the pulling force is halted by the rotation of the pivot hitting its end points(breaking naturally due to joint restrictions) centrifugal force or whatever you want to call it causes the left wrist to roll the clubface w/o any effort into a squarish position during the impact interval w/o any breakdown. The major problem folks have with this technique is that they bend the plane line left(over the top) probably because of a fear of slicing due to the clubface position...or they quit turning/pulling too soon causing an over-roll of the left wrist or a breakdown. Also, any manual overide of the clubface by the hands throws everything off and typically leads to eratic ball flight.

 

IMOP, the left wrist is the #1 reason why handicaps stay at a high average...educating the hands and what is powering the club is the first piece to a very big puzzle :yes:

 

Really good post Lake a lot of players may want to consider using a hitting method as probably less than 50% could use a proper swinging method Great explanation of the pitch v punch elbow on the downswing as well ( punch would seem like the Hardy method ) In your opinion can you have a pitch elbow position and have the elbow slightly behind or on the right hip at impact?

[Kerry_Bunker]

What the right elbow does in the backswing & downswing is directly related to the action of the left wrist. At address the left wrist is basically perpindicular to the inclined plane of the golf swing...if you keep the left wrist perpindicular to the plane during the takeaway the right elbow will go back, up, & in similar to the motion of starting a lawnmower...if you turn the left hand to plane(palm the plane) the left elbow & forearms will rotate clockwise into "pitch elbow" position. During the downswing if you rotate your left wrist/forearms counter clockwise the clubface leading edge will return back to perpindicular to the plane and put the right elbow into a punch like or push position outside of the right hip vs. keeping the left wrist palming the plane which would bring your right elbow in a pitch like position in front of your right hip.

 

These two different ways to propel the club (push vs. pull) were first outlined by Homer Kelly in "The Golfing Machine"...hitting(pushing) & swinging(pulling)... There are many different component relationships that follow each route. The goal is to find "the way" that works best for you and put the pieces together.

 

IMOP, the majority of the best instructors teach "swinging"-pulling.....however, several instructors do teach pushing in their arsenal as a very viable option. The problem in pushing the shaft is that the left wrist is in a very vulnerable position perpindicular to the plane...meaning it is in a position to where it could "bend".."cup".."breakdown" prior to impact...causing poor angle of attack, clubface alignment, and plane. The only thing that can support the left wrist in this condition is a driving(supporting) right arm w/ a bent right wrist that is "pushing" the left arm/wrist/clubshaft through the impact interval. The problem a lot of folks run into with this is that they push with the right arm too soon(running out of right arm prior to impact). The correct feeling is that the clubshaft is being accelerated past impact....the only way to get this feeling is to have the right elbow still bent at impact and straightening/firing/driving through & past impact w/ a bent right wrist

 

If you keep the left wrist palming the plane it cannot "bend".."cup".."breakdown"...it can only **** & uncock & when you pull the left hand it will feel like a karate chop w/ a clubface that is laying flat(horizontal) to the plane angle...when the pulling force is halted by the rotation of the pivot hitting its end points(breaking naturally due to joint restrictions) centrifugal force or whatever you want to call it causes the left wrist to roll the clubface w/o any effort into a squarish position during the impact interval w/o any breakdown. The major problem folks have with this technique is that they bend the plane line left(over the top) probably because of a fear of slicing due to the clubface position...or they quit turning/pulling too soon causing an over-roll of the left wrist or a breakdown. Also, any manual overide of the clubface by the hands throws everything off and typically leads to eratic ball flight.

 

IMOP, the left wrist is the #1 reason why handicaps stay at a high average...educating the hands and what is powering the club is the first piece to a very big puzzle :yes:

 

 

 

This man REALLY knows his stuff and can demonstrate a variety of different swings, all of them fundamentally sound. I look forward to when I drive "down" to see him in a few weeks and I get a hand education report card !

 

[hoganfan924]

What the right elbow does in the backswing & downswing is directly related to the action of the left wrist. At address the left wrist is basically perpindicular to the inclined plane of the golf swing...if you keep the left wrist perpindicular to the plane during the takeaway the right elbow will go back, up, & in similar to the motion of starting a lawnmower...if you turn the left hand to plane(palm the plane) the left elbow & forearms will rotate clockwise into "pitch elbow" position. During the downswing if you rotate your left wrist/forearms counter clockwise the clubface leading edge will return back to perpindicular to the plane and put the right elbow into a punch like or push position outside of the right hip vs. keeping the left wrist palming the plane which would bring your right elbow in a pitch like position in front of your right hip.

 

These two different ways to propel the club (push vs. pull) were first outlined by Homer Kelly in "The Golfing Machine"...hitting(pushing) & swinging(pulling)... There are many different component relationships that follow each route. The goal is to find "the way" that works best for you and put the pieces together.

 

IMOP, the majority of the best instructors teach "swinging"-pulling.....however, several instructors do teach pushing in their arsenal as a very viable option. The problem in pushing the shaft is that the left wrist is in a very vulnerable position perpindicular to the plane...meaning it is in a position to where it could "bend".."cup".."breakdown" prior to impact...causing poor angle of attack, clubface alignment, and plane. The only thing that can support the left wrist in this condition is a driving(supporting) right arm w/ a bent right wrist that is "pushing" the left arm/wrist/clubshaft through the impact interval. The problem a lot of folks run into with this is that they push with the right arm too soon(running out of right arm prior to impact). The correct feeling is that the clubshaft is being accelerated past impact....the only way to get this feeling is to have the right elbow still bent at impact and straightening/firing/driving through & past impact w/ a bent right wrist

 

If you keep the left wrist palming the plane it cannot "bend".."cup".."breakdown"...it can only **** & uncock & when you pull the left hand it will feel like a karate chop w/ a clubface that is laying flat(horizontal) to the plane angle...when the pulling force is halted by the rotation of the pivot hitting its end points(breaking naturally due to joint restrictions) centrifugal force or whatever you want to call it causes the left wrist to roll the clubface w/o any effort into a squarish position during the impact interval w/o any breakdown. The major problem folks have with this technique is that they bend the plane line left(over the top) probably because of a fear of slicing due to the clubface position...or they quit turning/pulling too soon causing an over-roll of the left wrist or a breakdown. Also, any manual overide of the clubface by the hands throws everything off and typically leads to eratic ball flight.

 

IMOP, the left wrist is the #1 reason why handicaps stay at a high average...educating the hands and what is powering the club is the first piece to a very big puzzle :yes:

 

This is one of the most informative posts I've ever read on this site.

 

Thanks Lake! Great stuff.

 

HF

[Zach Heusser]

IMOP, the left wrist is the #1 reason why handicaps stay at a high average...educating the hands and what is powering the club is the first piece to a very big puzzle

Very true..I totally agree

[dlygrisse]

What the right elbow does in the backswing & downswing is directly related to the action of the left wrist. At address the left wrist is basically perpindicular to the inclined plane of the golf swing...if you keep the left wrist perpindicular to the plane during the takeaway the right elbow will go back, up, & in similar to the motion of starting a lawnmower...if you turn the left hand to plane(palm the plane) the left elbow & forearms will rotate clockwise into "pitch elbow" position. During the downswing if you rotate your left wrist/forearms counter clockwise the clubface leading edge will return back to perpindicular to the plane and put the right elbow into a punch like or push position outside of the right hip vs. keeping the left wrist palming the plane which would bring your right elbow in a pitch like position in front of your right hip.

 

These two different ways to propel the club (push vs. pull) were first outlined by Homer Kelly in "The Golfing Machine"...hitting(pushing) & swinging(pulling)... There are many different component relationships that follow each route. The goal is to find "the way" that works best for you and put the pieces together.

 

IMOP, the majority of the best instructors teach "swinging"-pulling.....however, several instructors do teach pushing in their arsenal as a very viable option. The problem in pushing the shaft is that the left wrist is in a very vulnerable position perpindicular to the plane...meaning it is in a position to where it could "bend".."cup".."breakdown" prior to impact...causing poor angle of attack, clubface alignment, and plane. The only thing that can support the left wrist in this condition is a driving(supporting) right arm w/ a bent right wrist that is "pushing" the left arm/wrist/clubshaft through the impact interval. The problem a lot of folks run into with this is that they push with the right arm too soon(running out of right arm prior to impact). The correct feeling is that the clubshaft is being accelerated past impact....the only way to get this feeling is to have the right elbow still bent at impact and straightening/firing/driving through & past impact w/ a bent right wrist

 

If you keep the left wrist palming the plane it cannot "bend".."cup".."breakdown"...it can only **** & uncock & when you pull the left hand it will feel like a karate chop w/ a clubface that is laying flat(horizontal) to the plane angle...when the pulling force is halted by the rotation of the pivot hitting its end points(breaking naturally due to joint restrictions) centrifugal force or whatever you want to call it causes the left wrist to roll the clubface w/o any effort into a squarish position during the impact interval w/o any breakdown. The major problem folks have with this technique is that they bend the plane line left(over the top) probably because of a fear of slicing due to the clubface position...or they quit turning/pulling too soon causing an over-roll of the left wrist or a breakdown. Also, any manual overide of the clubface by the hands throws everything off and typically leads to eratic ball flight.

 

IMOP, the left wrist is the #1 reason why handicaps stay at a high average...educating the hands and what is powering the club is the first piece to a very big puzzle :yes:

 

This is one of the most informative posts I've ever read on this site.

 

Thanks Lake! Great stuff.

 

HF

 

Agreed......you just clarified a large chunk of TGM, which I am not smart enough to interpret. :yes:

[fats]

This is one of the most informative posts I've ever read on this site.

 

Thanks Lake! Great stuff.

 

HF

 

There's no doubt Lake's advice holds a lot of water. LOL...Sorry, couldn't pass it up. :yes:

[mikpga]

Its' general purpose is to allow the golfer to make an effective shoulder turn...

 

It enhances the sensation of getting your right shoulder behind you and your left shoulder underneath your chin...

[Dariusz J.]

I really do not believe how many of you can be blinded by some mass golf swing theories...hitters, swingers, shitters, fitters, pulling, pushing, etc...ridiculous...the idea of lawnmower move, as all uncounscious or conscious backswing moves is to ensure the perpendicular to the spine backswing (as no.2 mechanical theory is speaking about) and, consequently, on-plane downswing - IF ONE'S BODY ALLOW TO DO IT...that's all...it's useful for persons who does a shallow takeaway over plane and he/she is not deep enough...if someone is not deep enough he/she never be able to be in such a position...OUR BODY SEEKS FOR AN EQUILIBRIUM ALWAYS..download the V1 Programme, spend some time with it, and you'll know what I am talking abot - "lawnmower" or similar moves are not useful for guys who already are under-plane during takeaway...BTW, Mr.Hogan had a bit over plane backswing and he did not use any lawnmower and that forced him to make a little plane shift at transition...this little plane shift made his shaft plane perpendicular to his spine angle while he was a bit OTT with his upper body at impact - if he hadn't done it, he would end with hitting pulls like Snead and prolly never won a US Open tourney...watch your plane at impact and then you will know everything...if you are under, or over, or hitting on upswing, or hitting on downswing - all is visible if you know when to look for...

 

I really do not know why many golf teaches do not start their carreers with, at least, decent biomechanical study of a human body...

 

Cheers

[beachgrovejunior]

Dariusz cmon, mass golf swing theories? You are the one who preaches the largest one in the past few years 1PS and 2PS, which while some parts have merit, they lose alot at the parts where they fit different pros into the categories.

 

At least hitters swingers etc is TGM, which while highly technical, is alot more scientific the 1PS and 2PS, who cares how hogan took it back, he would have figured out a way to get it in the hole, and still won a US open

[Dariusz J.]

None of the theories I've encountered deal with mechanical principles in a large scale. I appear to preach OP swing theory (which is also a mass golf swing theory as you noticed) because COINCIDENTALLY (or purposedly) one plane swing is closest to the big picture of a perfect mechanical motion aimed at hitting a ball lying in front of us. That's why it was and still is a base to my further researches - as you might notice, I do not give a darn about lawnmovering or twist & throw concepts - because they are just DETAILS, that might or should be used only when someone NEEDS THEM.

TGM is also playing with DETAILS, and although Mr.Kelley was an engineer and those details may be of great importance, TGM is as far away from "the big picture" as other golf swing theories are as well.

You know, maybe my previous post was too harsh, I do apologize, but I am searching for perfect mechanical motion at a large scale...and I do not need any details at this stage that can blacken the whole picture. IMHO, the lawnnmower move is just a thing that MAY SERVE to some people to reach a goal, but it is not the goal itself.

 

Cheers

[Zach Heusser]

"I am searching for perfect mechanical motion"

That book has already been written

http://www.amazon.com/Search-Perfect-Swing...y/dp/1572431091

:yes:

[Dariusz J.]

"I am searching for perfect mechanical motion"

That book has already been written

http://www.amazon.com/Search-Perfect-Swing...y/dp/1572431091

:yes:

 

Yeah, I've heard of this book a lot, Zach...unfortunately not available in Poland...but reading from the table of contents as well as from Dave Tutelman's website - it's a book full of details (correct me if I am wrong, please)...and, as I said, I am not interested in details, FOR NOW.

What I am interested in is:

- automatization of the motion;

- pivot guided impact;

- minimizing the impact of timing in the motion;

- maximum efficiency of the motion in our 3-D reality.

 

:yes:

 

 

Cheers

[Lake]

I really do not believe how many of you can be blinded by some mass golf swing theories...hitters, swingers, shitters, fitters, pulling, pushing, etc...ridiculous...

 

I think your right...I'm going to give it up...

[Machinegolfer]

What the right elbow does in the backswing & downswing is directly related to the action of the left wrist. At address the left wrist is basically perpindicular to the inclined plane of the golf swing...if you keep the left wrist perpindicular to the plane during the takeaway the right elbow will go back, up, & in similar to the motion of starting a lawnmower...if you turn the left hand to plane(palm the plane) the left elbow & forearms will rotate clockwise into "pitch elbow" position. During the downswing if you rotate your left wrist/forearms counter clockwise the clubface leading edge will return back to perpindicular to the plane and put the right elbow into a punch like or push position outside of the right hip vs. keeping the left wrist palming the plane which would bring your right elbow in a pitch like position in front of your right hip.

 

These two different ways to propel the club (push vs. pull) were first outlined by Homer Kelly in "The Golfing Machine"...hitting(pushing) & swinging(pulling)... There are many different component relationships that follow each route. The goal is to find "the way" that works best for you and put the pieces together.

 

IMOP, the majority of the best instructors teach "swinging"-pulling.....however, several instructors do teach pushing in their arsenal as a very viable option. The problem in pushing the shaft is that the left wrist is in a very vulnerable position perpindicular to the plane...meaning it is in a position to where it could "bend".."cup".."breakdown" prior to impact...causing poor angle of attack, clubface alignment, and plane. The only thing that can support the left wrist in this condition is a driving(supporting) right arm w/ a bent right wrist that is "pushing" the left arm/wrist/clubshaft through the impact interval. The problem a lot of folks run into with this is that they push with the right arm too soon(running out of right arm prior to impact). The correct feeling is that the clubshaft is being accelerated past impact....the only way to get this feeling is to have the right elbow still bent at impact and straightening/firing/driving through & past impact w/ a bent right wrist

 

If you keep the left wrist palming the plane it cannot "bend".."cup".."breakdown"...it can only **** & uncock & when you pull the left hand it will feel like a karate chop w/ a clubface that is laying flat(horizontal) to the plane angle...when the pulling force is halted by the rotation of the pivot hitting its end points(breaking naturally due to joint restrictions) centrifugal force or whatever you want to call it causes the left wrist to roll the clubface w/o any effort into a squarish position during the impact interval w/o any breakdown. The major problem folks have with this technique is that they bend the plane line left(over the top) probably because of a fear of slicing due to the clubface position...or they quit turning/pulling too soon causing an over-roll of the left wrist or a breakdown. Also, any manual overide of the clubface by the hands throws everything off and typically leads to eratic ball flight.

 

IMOP, the left wrist is the #1 reason why handicaps stay at a high average...educating the hands and what is powering the club is the first piece to a very big puzzle :)

 

This is one of the most informative posts I've ever read on this site.

 

Thanks Lake! Great stuff.

 

HF

 

Agreed......you just clarified a large chunk of TGM, which I am not smart enough to interpret. :lol:

 

Any push or force from the right arm other than its passive tendency invariably leads to angled hinging, or a face that is simultaneously closing and laying back... the actual VISIBLE bend in the left wrist varies per grip type, the true alignment is the inline codition of the left arm and the club... GREAT post lake, a very "educated" response