Junior discrimination?

[gcerts110]

its long but please read

Ok so listen to this. I am a junior member at a course that i am very lucky to belong to. The course is great, its tough, the greens are fast, and the practice facilities are great, one of the main reasons why i play at this course than my other one. There is a golf comitee at my club which somehow pretty much runs it, and it consists of a few senior members that are known for being tools, and totally hating junior members (its true even most of the members admit it.) This comitee has the power to run the course the way they see fit, which is pretty gay considering it is pretty much the ideas of a few guys and not to mention the fact they do a crappy job IMO. However last year they came up with a wonderful way for more ppl to go to the driving range. They proposed that at the begining of the year you pay an extra 75 dollars and u get unlimited range balls. The cost before was 3 dollars a token and a token filled only half a bucket, just going to show u how upsessed they are with making money. So naturally all of the good players took advantage, including the junior members who wish to play in college and get better. So this season a few friends and i had a blast going up to the course, hitting 3 buckets of balls a day and practicing then going out to play. However the members of the comitee did not approve of how much time we spent up on the range and practicing. (These members can be so bad that one of these guys tried to tell me i couldnt talk on the driving range and told me to go into the clubhouse!!!! I told him he had no idea wat he was talking about and had had enough as this was just one of a few cases so i told him off.) So now, the comitee has decided to take action to keep us from practicing. We got our monthly news letter yesterday and it said somthing along the lines of "Unlimited range balls for an extra 75 dollars. THIS WILL BE ALLOWED FOR ALL EXCEPT JUNIOR MEMBERS." Turns out that the comitee is saying that the juniors are loosing too many balls by hitting them too far and are causing too much damage. My friends and i along with our parents and many up at the club are pissed about this. There are more members than junior members who hit the ball over the fence with their drivers considering there are only about 7 of us juniors who can hit it that far and thats only when the tees are as far up as they can go. There are practice mats another 60 yards back from the front which are used only 2 days out of the week. My friends and i make perfect divot squares in order to allow for more good spots when many of the members dont even know wat a divot square is and take up divots all around an area the area of a dinner table. We always try to respect the course but if this still does not appeal to the comitee why not make us hit off the mats more than 2 out of 7 days? They are arguing that we are up there too often.... would they rather have us out drinking or smoking like so many high schoolers do because they think it is fun, do they care about us at all? If im wrong i apologize for loving golf so much that i practice everyday to become better. I told my arguments to the club pro (who doesnt support us on this for some reason) and he couldnt stand up against me at all in this debate. I proposed to higher the price to 100 dollars for juniors, for us to pick up balls in the woods two times a week, give them money for range balls, anything to allow us to practice again. My friend and i have decided to attend one of the comitte meetings and state out case and propose a solution or a compromise even tho i was told it was no use as the comitee is so one sided. My dad is writing letters to the club and i decided to write a letter to the local newspaper editor on the subject. My goal is to have the club get blasted for this and have them give us back the only way we can really practice our swings. Daily i hit about 3 buckets but i wont be able to do that anymore considering 2 tokens fill a bucket and each token is 3 bucks. If i do wat i did last summer i would have to spend 360 dollars a month just to hit balls. Im trying to think of everything to get our range priveleges back considering we arent even allowed to go out in the woods and pick up lost balls now as i was told by the pro :) . So please im open to any suggestions or comments and opinions.

Thanks for your time,
Grant

[rhnh7063]

Despite everything they have to offer in the facilities, it sounds like this is the wrong place for you to practice. They should be encouraging your love of the game, not trying to put you down. Have you looked into finding another place to practice?

How strong is your backing with the other members (besides the elitest snobs on high)? Find out how many there are and how far they are willing to go to support you (peacefully, of course, it is a gentlemans game). Hit the club where it hurts, in the pocketbook, and you'll let them know the importance of customer service.

[gcerts110]

There is pretty much no way to practice like i did last summer. The other course i belong to does not have a range and it costs over 500 dollars to be a member at the driving range in the town over and it is not as good as the one at my course. I do agree with doing this peacfully and am not trying to start any problems with these select few members but i am told these ppl are pretty much impossible to persuade. Thanks for replying, if u have any other suggestions please let me know,

 

Grant

[CRutherford]

More power to you!

 

It sounds like the comitee is in it for a reason other than this great game, and I fully support your desire for practice. It sounds as though you've taken proper, civilized action that should earn respect. Fortunately at my club me and the manager are pretty close, so no debate. But I think that you've shown a very just arguement. Cheers.

[Johnny]

paragraphs can be your friend

[dux2000]

I totally agree with you on this subject. I deal with it every day as a fellow junior. Fight for your right to practice and play. If they want to perpetuate the club, they have to support juniors. Way to go in standing up for yourself. (Doesn't it make you mad how you can beat every member, but they act like they own the place?)

[italianstallion]

Even though it may seem like giving in, I would leave a course like that. I'm invited to play many private courses in the area, and even though I am a good player, I feel that because I'm 17, the members of these clubs find anything I do wrong and give me a scream about it; "Play faster" (Um, sir, tell that to the foursome in front of me), "Stop laughing and talking" (I don't see that rule in the rulebook), stuff like that. Makes me mad, and is what also steers me away from a private club, besides the price of it.

 

What it all comes down to is how the people at the course treat you. The public course I'm going to be working at is very supportive of it's juniors. Many times when I come off 18, the starter will invite me to keep playing if I want. On the range, where I've met the owner a few times, he's tossed me a few range tokens my way, or let me finish up the 30 or so balls he leaves behind when he's done practicing. Basically, this is where I like the public courses better, more laid back/fun atmosphere, and that's why I play the game.

[cjdrcc]

I am a junior so at some point I am biased to support my friends and compatriots, however in this case, I believe that no person can argue that this system is fair. The laws which they have imposed are totalitarian and completely inappropriate. This discrimination is no less offensive than racism or sexism, the only difference is that in this situation the juniors cannot retaliate without risking what privileges they have left. The advice I have to offer is that all is fair in love and war, and you do love golf, therefore this means war.

 

I suggest that if members are elected to this council that you attempt to gain allies on this board. The other effective way to get what you want is to take away their profit, which it seems is their only ambition from what you have mentioned. This may be accomplished in a variety of ways, the most effective I have thought of is to attract media attention to this issue. The media I have dealt with are always excited to have a story that show young people attempting to better their situation, most always portraying them in the best light possible. If you were to do this, it would most likely accomplish your goal. The board would have to yield to the pressure if you placed the focus on their prejudice. The effect like the drop off in new members because of the media attraction could surely change their mind.

 

For all of my ranting and raving, I must warn you that this is a dangerous move for you. I must be done skillfully and in a very careful manner. These actions may cause you to be ejected from the club or further impingement on your privileges. Good luck with you campaign.

[tmagfan2010]

shouldnt punish the good only the bad. the ones that make the damage should pay but dont discriminate.

[tarik]

I'm just now out of the junior territory but still feel your pain. Juniors are discriminated against quite a bit, whether its not being allowed to play through a foursome when your by yourself (until you bomb it 300 over there heads), or whether your allowed to play at all.

I suggest you start a petition and have as many members of that particular club sign it (even better if the manager knows them). If they know the people at their very course are behind you then they will see the error of their stubborn ways. I agree that the civilized way is the right way, and if this rule is revoked your relationship with the management wont be tarnished.

 

Good luck man!!!

[DOUGLY]

I suspect there is another side to this story....and the truth will lie somewhere in between.

[gcerts110]

Thanks to all of you for your replys and suggestions, it means alot. However there is no other side to this story, im not trying to sound like a teenaged punk here but they are totally wrong. The only ones who dont agree with us are the members of that comitee and the head pro. We have the support of so many members up there but like i said, the comitee doesnt care what others think, they want to have it the way they see fit. These are the same ppl who told me i couldnt talk on the driving range when me and my friend were talking about my swing on the range. My friend was just sitting down on the ground behind me saying, ok hit a draw, your swing might be alittle laid off, ect. We were not swearing or fooling around, or doing anything that may have offended the other guy. Now you cant tell me that there is in any way possible that i was wrong in that situation and he was right. This is what type of people run the club, i have little to no respect for this group of individuals, as do the members who support us. I know it seems that there could be another side of the story but there is not, this is why we are so mad about it, it is because they have no right to take this away from us, we have not done anything wrong. A very well liked and respected member up at the course was appauled when he found out what they did as did some of the other members that i talked to. It may be hard to believe me but i wouldnt be so upset about this if it wasnt the case

 

Grant

[857 Pro-Ti]

paragraphs can be your friend

:tongue: ;)

 

I find it easier to read if there at least a few breaks. My old eyes can't concentrate very long :)

[DemolitionMan]

paragraphs can be your friend

:tongue: ;)

 

I find it easier to read if there at least a few breaks. My old eyes can't concentrate very long :)

 

No kidding. Just a little less golf and a little more homework and maybe someone other than a junior will take this seriously.

 

The good news is here at GolfWRX, we do not discriminate against juniors. You get your own forum which is exactly where this thread belongs.

 

Good luck.

[animalistic]

gcerts your 100% correct. ive seen a little bit of that kinda crap in my club..not allowin juniors go out on a saturday, bein barred from clubhouses, blatant discrimination...it goes on but if stick to what u believe in and keep fitin u will get what u want...because they have no argument. and if u make it public they will not be able to stand the pressure.its nice to see a fellow junior standin up for what he believes in............

:) Good Luck to you :tongue:

[king1066]

The best advice is to profusely apologize to the members of the committee. Tell them they are the best thing since sliced salami and that just being in their presence is reason enough to live. In addition, when they are at the range - keep quiet until they leave and follow every stupid rule they post. I'm saying this b/c politics rule everything in the real world. In other words, if you aren't kissing the right butt, your kissing the wrong one.

[kblakeney35]

As some other people have said, try to get a petition going. Or, try to get people to stop using the range. I feel your pain man. Too be blatently disrespected and looked down upon, with no rhyme or reason, that is horrible and if it continues without any improvement, get the LAW involved. Remember, prejudism and discrimination are illegal.

 

I Hope it works out for you.

 

-Kyle

 

 

 

paragraphs can be your friend

 

Nice "opinion." He asked for some advice, not a grammar lesson.

[KingOAces]

I've never experienced this kind of prejudice before over a practice range issue, but have experienced it on the course. I hate it when people think they can beat juniors just because were juniors. I try and ignore it and play my game, but it gets to be a hstle sometimes. I agree, if they don't want you using their practice facilities, mabye it shouldn't be the place you bring your money. After all it is yours and you have a right to take it where you please. Good Luck!

 

KinG

[857 Pro-Ti]

 

paragraphs can be your friend

 

Nice "opinion." He asked for some advice, not a grammar lesson.

 

I found it too hard to read to even try :)

[mj6234]

Do you mean you are a "junior member" like someone who pays dues and is < 35? Or do you mean that you are under 18? At any rate, the decision was stupid. You have to remember "old" people that work all the time and can't bang range balls 6 hours a day may be jealous of your time. They might figure that you use all the "good grass" on the range, get to hit way more balls, and "take advantage" of the system without directly paying for things yourselves. Bad logic, I know, but some old people get bitter. There is definitely a bias against young players for tee times, "right of way" on the course, etc. I just dealt with it in most cases, now I'm older (28), can't really afford to play on a nice CC, and really miss it.

[allsouthpaw08]

i think your idea of attending one of the meetings is a great idea, i would also think you should put a little competition in this, if you can beat the commitee chairman (IF you know you can, idk if you can or not) if he says no then challenge him to a match on the course, and tell him if he thinks he is such a big shot, then shut his trap and prove it.....ON THE COURSE :) , he cant refuse that, if you are just a little junior then lets see him demoralize you. challenge him to 18 holes, strait up match play (that way if he has to forfit a hole, it will get him off his rocker and cause even more stress, thus leading to worse play) and make it that if you win you get the same range priveledges, and golf priveledges as older members.....thats what i would do!!!

[TourPro21]

you hold a couple very good points, but i'm going to have to agree with some of the people above who feel as though the members may be jealous of you and how you are able to "take advantage" of your range membership... which, to be perfectly honest with you is exactly what you are doing... taking advantage of that... $75 for unlimited range usage is absolutely ridiculous! a year long range pass goes for atleast $1000 around here... i do wish that you come to some kind of compromise with your club, because you have a very strong point in that you could be out doing drugs and drinking and other $hit like that, so take that and run with it...

good luck

Kyle

[illinikyle]

As some other people have said, try to get a petition going. Or, try to get people to stop using the range. I feel your pain man. Too be blatently disrespected and looked down upon, with no rhyme or reason, that is horrible and if it continues without any improvement, get the LAW involved. Remember, prejudism and discrimination are illegal.

 

I Hope it works out for you.

 

-Kyle

 

 

 

Don't waste your time with 'the LAW' as you wouldn't really have a case here. When you say you are a junior member, does that mean that you pay a discounted rate for your membership versus the other members. I could understand this change if you are paying one rate and another member is paying another. Paying less you should not and will not get all of the perks as those paying more, whether that is a $75 range membership or something else.

[gcerts110]

No im only 15 and am a "junior member" lol my bad idk how to put it any other way, but i just find it ridiculous that they are going to take this privelege away from the rest of the junior up there that do not practice as much as my friends and i.

 

I would love to challenge the head of the commitee to a straight up match but it wouldnt be a very fair match. Im not that bad of a player ( 4 hdc) and the head of the comitee.... well lets just say his game is not as sharp as im sure he would like it to be lol. Like i said i would love to do this but i know it would not solve our problem, but if it did i would love to be the first one to play against him

 

I know what a great deal we are getting that is why my friends and i try to respect this oppurtunuty. We have offered to go out and pick up lost range balls in the woods during the week, shag our own balls when members are not there (they hardly ever are anyways, they are just looking to take away the thing that would hurt us most) and triple the cost for junior members while keeping the same price for the normal members. The funny thing is our head pro even told me i was not allowed to go out into the woods and then pick up lost range balls then hit them back into the range. ????????? Wouldnt this be helping the course?????

 

Any way all of us who are trying to get the range back have been hard at work. We have organized a meeting for all of the junior members and their parents at my dads office. We have talked to some VERY VERY respected members who back us 100% partly due to the fact that some of them have kids are junior members too and they dont want to see them sit at the putting green all day. My dad talked to the general manager today and even he said "maybe we jumped the gun too quick on this." We are setting up a powerpoint presentation to give to the comitee and state our arguments and our offers for a compromise. So far things are looking brighter and we will hopefully get our range priveleges back. If however they do not change anything from what it is now, i will be sending a letter out to the newspaper to hopefully have an article published. Thanks for all the repsonds back guys, i appreciate it.

 

O yea sry about the first post i didnt realize how hard it was to read.

 

Grant

[Johnny]

The way I see it.... the idea of giving you unlimited range balls was just and idea and maybe just a temporary "privilege" so you shouldn't have assumed it would last forever. Sounds like you and your friends might have been taking advantage of it and maybe since you guys were the only ones..why continue doing it since it sounds like it did not serve the original purpose of increasing driving range income.

 

The fact that you now want to "challenge" the head on the commitee is kind of childish to me. How does that help you ? Maybe his "game" is not a sharp because he has to "work" for a living and support his family, something most 15 year olds have no idea about. Win the club championship instead of calling out the committee members who can only complicate you golf privileges further.

 

Think about it... they are not making any money off you ... your parents pay the fees, bring in the guests that probably spend more money then you on one dinner then you spend at the snackshack in a month. Might not be what you want to hear but I find your stance on this rather selfish. When I played HS golf yes we collected balls off the range in exchange to hit them, but then we had to collect them again. If we did not collect them again ask yourself how would you really be HELPING.

[gcerts110]

The way I see it.... the idea of giving you unlimited range balls was just and idea and maybe just a temporary "privilege" so you shouldn't have assumed it would last forever. Sounds like you and your friends might have been taking advantage of it and maybe since you guys were the only ones..why continue doing it since it sounds like it did not serve the original purpose of increasing driving range income.

 

The fact that you now want to "challenge" the head on the commitee is kind of childish to me. How does that help you ? Maybe his "game" is not a sharp because he has to "work" for a living and support his family, something most 15 year olds have no idea about. Win the club championship instead of calling out the committee members who can only complicate you golf privileges further.

 

Think about it... they are not making any money off you ... your parents pay the fees, bring in the guests that probably spend more money then you on one dinner then you spend at the snackshack in a month. Might not be what you want to hear but I find your stance on this rather selfish. When I played HS golf yes we collected balls off the range in exchange to hit them, but then we had to collect them again. If we did not collect them again ask yourself how would you really be HELPING.

 

You may want to read my last post again. I said i would want to play the head guy in a match "only if it would solve the problem" However i said that it would not solve anything therefor there is not purpose in doing it. I was not the one who brought up playing with the head of the comitee, someone else did i was just responding to it.

 

As for shagging our own balls on the range i would have no problem with that, but they wont allow us. The only way we can hit balls is if we pay for them. The cost for a token is 3 dollars and each token only gives u about 25- 30 balls. Lee Trevino even said somthing along the lines of "if you want to get better than you have to practice and hit balls every single day, even if its raining, even on christmas" I cant practice everyday if i will be spending over 360 dollars a month on range balls!! i have a job but i dont get paid enough money to pay for tokens that are an arm and a leg.

 

How am i not helping the course if i am going out into the woods and finding lost range balls then giving them back to the course? This way i am practicing and making it so that the course doesnt have to pay for new range balls at the end of the year, but apparently im not even allowed to do this.

 

I know that the members up there support a family pay more than he does, but that does not give him a right to treat junior members any less than he is. I asked how he was doing one day and he did not even have the courtesy to answer me back. I know how lucky i am to be at this course but i dont believe members should have the right to talk down to juniors just because they pay more than us.

[i_luv_golf_]

true true true al true!

 

At our club juniors can play Monday-Friday (Higher Than Snr. Handicap) And Must Be Off the course by 4:30?

ot allowed to play on Sat/Sunday So In The Winter Unless You Have A Snr. Hcp You Can Only Play When You Have A Day/Week Off Etc? By The Way No Juniors At Our Club Follow The 4:30 rule!

[Placebo]

I suspect there is another side to this story....and the truth will lie somewhere in between.

"There are two sides to every story and somewhere in the middle lies the truth."

 

That is a lesson in life that you can argue all you like but once you come to terms with it you will be much better off.

 

Now that being said, diplomacy really is your best option here. I understand your frustration and I would be equally as frustrated. Problem is raising a ruckus will only worsen the situation. Phooey with taking advantage of the range balls. If they publish something that says unlimited range balls for $75.00 then by golly you should be able to beat balls until your arms fall off. Their fault on that one, not yours. I would suggest, like someone else aready did, to approach them apologetically and try to gain some respect from them. Sometimes you have to swallow a little pride to do this especially when dealing with someone who is not only older but likely a lot more traditional and, "set in their ways" than you in most respects. Be conscious of that fact in your dealings with him.

 

If it's, "their show" and they are running it, then unless you got enough cash in your pocket to buy the course you are setting yourself up for more frustrations.

 

Best of luck to you and let us know how it works out.

[Johnny]

The way I see it.... the idea of giving you unlimited range balls was just and idea and maybe just a temporary "privilege" so you shouldn't have assumed it would last forever. Sounds like you and your friends might have been taking advantage of it and maybe since you guys were the only ones..why continue doing it since it sounds like it did not serve the original purpose of increasing driving range income.

 

The fact that you now want to "challenge" the head on the commitee is kind of childish to me. How does that help you ? Maybe his "game" is not a sharp because he has to "work" for a living and support his family, something most 15 year olds have no idea about. Win the club championship instead of calling out the committee members who can only complicate you golf privileges further.

 

Think about it... they are not making any money off you ... your parents pay the fees, bring in the guests that probably spend more money then you on one dinner then you spend at the snackshack in a month. Might not be what you want to hear but I find your stance on this rather selfish. When I played HS golf yes we collected balls off the range in exchange to hit them, but then we had to collect them again. If we did not collect them again ask yourself how would you really be HELPING.

 

You may want to read my last post again. I said i would want to play the head guy in a match "only if it would solve the problem" However i said that it would not solve anything therefor there is not purpose in doing it. I was not the one who brought up playing with the head of the comitee, someone else did i was just responding to it.

 

As for shagging our own balls on the range i would have no problem with that, but they wont allow us. The only way we can hit balls is if we pay for them. The cost for a token is 3 dollars and each token only gives u about 25- 30 balls. Lee Trevino even said somthing along the lines of "if you want to get better than you have to practice and hit balls every single day, even if its raining, even on christmas" I cant practice everyday if i will be spending over 360 dollars a month on range balls!! i have a job but i dont get paid enough money to pay for tokens that are an arm and a leg.

 

How am i not helping the course if i am going out into the woods and finding lost range balls then giving them back to the course? This way i am practicing and making it so that the course doesnt have to pay for new range balls at the end of the year, but apparently im not even allowed to do this.

 

I know that the members up there support a family pay more than he does, but that does not give him a right to treat junior members any less than he is. I asked how he was doing one day and he did not even have the courtesy to answer me back. I know how lucky i am to be at this course but i dont believe members should have the right to talk down to juniors just because they pay more than us.

 

 

ok pay the adult fee and quit whining...sorry I dont feel for you. You still missed the point .

[TourPro21]

The way I see it.... the idea of giving you unlimited range balls was just and idea and maybe just a temporary "privilege" so you shouldn't have assumed it would last forever. Sounds like you and your friends might have been taking advantage of it and maybe since you guys were the only ones..why continue doing it since it sounds like it did not serve the original purpose of increasing driving range income.

 

The fact that you now want to "challenge" the head on the commitee is kind of childish to me. How does that help you ? Maybe his "game" is not a sharp because he has to "work" for a living and support his family, something most 15 year olds have no idea about. Win the club championship instead of calling out the committee members who can only complicate you golf privileges further.

 

Think about it... they are not making any money off you ... your parents pay the fees, bring in the guests that probably spend more money then you on one dinner then you spend at the snackshack in a month. Might not be what you want to hear but I find your stance on this rather selfish. When I played HS golf yes we collected balls off the range in exchange to hit them, but then we had to collect them again. If we did not collect them again ask yourself how would you really be HELPING.

 

You may want to read my last post again. I said i would want to play the head guy in a match "only if it would solve the problem" However i said that it would not solve anything therefor there is not purpose in doing it. I was not the one who brought up playing with the head of the comitee, someone else did i was just responding to it.

 

As for shagging our own balls on the range i would have no problem with that, but they wont allow us. The only way we can hit balls is if we pay for them. The cost for a token is 3 dollars and each token only gives u about 25- 30 balls. Lee Trevino even said somthing along the lines of "if you want to get better than you have to practice and hit balls every single day, even if its raining, even on christmas" I cant practice everyday if i will be spending over 360 dollars a month on range balls!! i have a job but i dont get paid enough money to pay for tokens that are an arm and a leg.

 

How am i not helping the course if i am going out into the woods and finding lost range balls then giving them back to the course? This way i am practicing and making it so that the course doesnt have to pay for new range balls at the end of the year, but apparently im not even allowed to do this.

 

I know that the members up there support a family pay more than he does, but that does not give him a right to treat junior members any less than he is. I asked how he was doing one day and he did not even have the courtesy to answer me back. I know how lucky i am to be at this course but i dont believe members should have the right to talk down to juniors just because they pay more than us.

 

 

ok pay the adult fee and quit whining...sorry I dont feel for you. You still missed the point .

 

 

i'm with johny 100% on this... and when you're talking about writing to the newspaper, what is that going to accomplish? the club is private, right? so how is ranting in the local newspaper going to get you anything??