All time top 10 greatest

[dlygrisse]

Based on record and impact on the game

My all time top 10 Golfers based on playing record and impact on the game

1. Jack Nicklaus-the greatest with 18 pro majors and over 70 wins on the pga. Set the standard that Tiger is trying to catch. Has also been a great ambassador for the game with the Memorial, course design, instruction books, and showing us all how to win and lose with grace. By the way his took 2nd in 19 majors, mind boggleing!

2. Bobby Jones-won 13 majors, the grand slam in 1930, wrote more about golf than any player before or since, started Augusta National, the Masters and did those wonderful films. Promoted golf during the 1920's and helped make it a national game in the US.

3. Tiger- will be number 2 soon, will be number 1 before his is 40 years old. Dont need to elaborate on his accomplishments. For those of you who would put him at number 1 now, just have a little patience, he will get there soon

4. Harry Vardon- the most dominating player in the history of the game until Jones came along, wrote golf instructin books and brought golf to the US. 6 British opens and 1 US open.

5. Arnie-7 majors, 63? wins and brought golf to the modern era on TV with his army. Golf course design etc. etc. etc. The nicest professinal athelete you will ever meet. I only wish Terrell Owens etc. could meet him and learn from him.

6. Ben Hogan-9 majors and over 50 wins, won the triple crown and was a legend for many reasons. Invented golf instruction as we know it.

7. Sam Snead-born the same year as Hogan, the all time leader in pga tour wins, if he could have pulled off a few US opens his would be higher

8. Byron Nelson-the greatest season in the history of the game, If WWII wouldnt have come in the middle of his prime he would have won more tournaments and a bunch more majors that he wasnt able to compete in. The greatest gentleman in the history of the game, and maybe mankind.

9. Gary Player-won the career grand slam, 9 majors and was an ambassador of the game around the world.

10. Walter Hagen-11 majors and became a legend for how he behaved off the course, made being a professional cool.

Thats may list I am sure there are many who disagree, looking forward to seeing what everyone else thinks.

[yorkshiregolf]

1. Jack Nicklaus

2. Tiger Woods - he will be number one; without doubt the most talented player ever. The greatest shot of all time = 16th@ augusta 2005

3. Arnold Palmer - the biggest heart to ever beat golf. Picked up a game of the few and delivered it with raw power, energy and aggression to the massses.

4. Ben Hogan - the hardest worker and best ball striker you could wish to see.

5. Bobby Jones - a gentleman and a huge talent who never felt the need to earn money for his passion

6. Harry Vardon - the dominant force of golf before bobby jones

7. Young Tom Morris - heartbreaking story, a huge talent. A wooden club and shaft, a gutta percha ball and defends his open title with an eagle at the 1st at Prestwick over 570 yards long.... shaped golf in scotland and therefore the world.

8. Seve Ballesteros - a genius with a club. could make the ball do anything when at the height of his powers and loved the game so passionately his talent was burnt out before he was 40.

9. Byron Nelson - what a record. what a man.

10. Walter Hagen - made golf cool in the 20s and 30s.

[vokey design]

A great list, there is no question about that but no Moe? Moe Norman would be on my list. True he doesn not have the major wins but Moe is the best ball striker that has ever touched a club.

 

this is what the #1 player in the world has to say about pipeline moe:

 

"Only two players have ever truly owned their swings: Moe Norman and Ben Hogan,” Woods told Jaime Diaz of Golf Digest. “I want to own mine. That's where the satisfaction comes from."

 

 

Lee Trevino said of Moe, "I don't know of any player, ever, who could strike a golf ball like Moe Norman, as far as hitting it solid, knowing where it is going and knowing what he wants to do with the ball. Moe Norman is a genius when it comes to playing the game of golf."

 

Moe has set more than 30 course records, including three 59's and four 61's. The Royal Canadian Golf Association inducted him into the Canadian Hall of Fame.

 

 

*Set 33 course records, 17 hole in ones, 8 on the fly. 4 double eagles

 

*Inducted into the Canadian Hall of Fame 1995.

[dlygrisse]

I would certainly rank Moe in the top 3 of all time great ball strikers, (with Hogan and Trevino) but not anywhere close to the all time great golfers. In order to make the list of all time great golfers you have to make it happen on the biggest stages, and make history. Tearing up the Canadian tour does not equate with winning the US open 4 times like Jones Nicklaus and Hogan did. Golf is a game of many talents, mental, ball striking, putting, short game, historical acheivments and how you impact your sport on a social level. IMO Moe was lacking in many of these areas. I wish I could have seen Moe hit a golf ball in person, and I understand that he had a special talent for the game. But I would not put him anywhere near the top 50 of all time. He never won a pga tour event or a major championship. Nothing pesonal, I left a lot of other really good golfers off the list, including Trevino, Watson, Seve, etc. I just dont think Moe qualifies.

[dlygrisse]

I like the fact you put Young Tom Morris on the list, deffinatley the best player of his era. My list of the best players of their era:

 

1800's young Tom Morris

1910's-Harry Vardon

1920's-Bobby Jones

1930's-Snead (had to give it to him since Hogan and Nelson took the 40's and 50's. They were all born in the same year)

1940's-Byron Nelson

1950's-Hogan

1960's-Arnie

1970's-Jack

1980's-Watson (Seve is a close 2nd)

1990's-Faldo (no one really dominated this decade)

2000's-Tiger

[Putt4doh]

I'm going to rank my golfers based on their impact on the game. Feel free to flame away once you've read through my list....but it's my list and I'm sticking to it :drinks:

 

 

1. Old Tom Morris---if it wasn't for him there'd be no 'golf' as we know it.

2. Harry Vardon---no Harry, no golf in the USA

3. Francis Ouimet---created a national pride and interest in the game

4. Walter Hagen---He created the modern touring golf professional; anyone who has played the game since has Sir Walter to thank. Oh, and his Major list is a few short---the Western, which he won 5 times, was a major in his day.

5. Master Bobby. No explanation needed

6. Nicklaus. Umm 18 majors

7. Lord Byron. Set the bar for succes and modeled the modern golf swing.

8. Arnie. The General of The Army

9. Tiger. If it wasn't El Tigre, the guy at 125 on the $ list wouldn't be a millionaire. Until Tiger has a greater impact on the 'good of game' he stays at 8. He could, in fact, drop lower...

10. This one's a toss up....could be Trevino, Hogan or Snead...I can make an arguement for any of them here.

[dlygrisse]

Ouimet is interesting, in terms of impact I have to agree, he did a lot for golf in the US. He did win one huge US open and a US amatuer. I dont know if his playing record balances out him being that high on the list though. I guess I dont know enough about him except for the obvious stuff. (whipping the great triumvirate)

 

I dont think you can put Hagen ahead of Bobby Jones, and Nicklaus has to be #1 or #2 on anyones list, other than that I think it is a very interesting list. I think it is cool that you put Young Tom at #1, how many people would do that in this day and age. I will be interested if anyone puts his father on the list, after all he basically ran the Old Course for many years,a s well as being the greatest player of his era, and a great course designer. If I had to make one change I might add old Tom to my list.

 

I think your list is weighted more towards the social impact and not the playing record. I tried to make my list is a balance of both, which is my personal definiton of what a "golfer" is.

[dlygrisse]

My mistake, you did put Old Tom on the list...... :drinks: ...nice choice. I just mis read your list.

[Putt4doh]

I definitely went with more of an 'impact on the game' slant, not necessarily playing record. My 'Playing Record' List would look a bit different.

 

I have to disagree (I suppose I would with most)---Hagen has to be ahead of Bobby Jones. For this simple reason, Jones was an amateur. He remained an amateur at a time when the 'profession' of golf was essentially considered a 'servant' class. He chose to remain an amateur, which was the more prestigious way to play the game, and not open new paths as a golfing professional. Bobby is praised to have played the game as an amateur. But in his time, that ensured he would remain a member of an elite class that played golf.

 

On the contrary, The Hag was responsible for shaping the position of golf professional by taking it out of the caddyshack and into the clubhouse. Nevermind his larger than life personality and playing record.

 

Just my argument for putting Sir Walter ahead of the original RTJ. I could be wrong, but I doubt it... :drinks: :cheesy:

[CowtownTexas]

When talking about impact on the game, Hogan should be at the top of the list. While most know him as the player, he also completely changed golf instruction and golf equipment. The Hogan Company dominated golf equipment for decades and I still see many players using Apex blades that are decades old. His instructional books are still the all-time best sellers more than 50 years after their release.

[dlygrisse]

Everything you say about Hagen is true, that is why I put him on my list, although much farther down than you did. The debate here is whether Hagens accomplishments, which were big, were bigger than Jones's. I think that Jones's were more important and had a bigger impact on the game as a whole. Let's not forget that after JOnes "retired" he went to Hollywood and made the instructional movies. This in effect made him a professoanl and probably more money than Hagen ever dreamed of. The real genius of Jones is that he realized he could make more money earning a reputation as an amataur, and then cashing in when he "retired" by making movies, selling golf clubs through Spalding(he designed the first set of matched clubs) and writing his many books and articles. In essence Jones was the first true modern professional and way ahead of his time in terms of endorsments. The whole amatauer thing, was part of the image that Jones used to build his endorment package.

[dlygrisse]

No doubt that Hogan had a huge impact on the game, no one in thier right mind could argue that. However, you have yet to convince me that he had a bigger impact than Jack and Bobby. After all whose records were Jack trying to beat? (Bobby Jones, 13 majors), and whose record is Tiger trying to beat? (Jacks 18 majors). The point is both Jones and Nicklaus designed golf clubs, although not as well as Hogan. Both wrote instruction books, although they were both extremely successful, they did not have the impact of 5 Lessons. Howver in most other areas Jones and Nicklaus had a bigger imapact than Hogan, IMO.

 

Course design

Ambassador to the game(Hogan was notoriously a recluse, and I am trying to put it nicley)

Memorial tournament

Augusta National

Masters

Visiblity to the public

majors won

[Putt4doh]

Everything you say about Hagen is true, that is why I put him on my list, although much farther down than you did. The debate here is whether Hagens accomplishments, which were big, were bigger than Jones's. I think that Jones's were more important and had a bigger impact on the game as a whole. Let's not forget that after JOnes "retired" he went to Hollywood and made the instructional movies. This in effect made him a professoanl and probably more money than Hagen ever dreamed of. The real genius of Jones is that he realized he could make more money earning a reputation as an amataur, and then cashing in when he "retired" by making movies, selling golf clubs through Spalding(he designed the first set of matched clubs) and writing his many books and articles. In essence Jones was the first true modern professional and way ahead of his time in terms of endorsments. The whole amatauer thing, was part of the image that Jones used to build his endorment package.

 

 

I understand your point, but if you're hinging your placement of Jones on what you write above then I find it even more difficult to place him above Hagen...

 

Years before Bobby came along Harry Vardon was endorsing and lending his name to equipment and providing instructional books. Not to change the discussion, but Harry should probably be considered the first 'modern golf professional'; obviously a beneficary of Vardon, The Hag was responsible for taking the foundation that Vardon laid and building up the profession very closely to what it is today.

 

IMHO, Jones' place on the list is due in large part to his contributions to the game, course development, and legacy of inspiration.

 

 

 

Great topic and discussion! Thanks for starting it.

[dlygrisse]

Thanx for replying,

I am not hinging my arguement about Jones as a whole on my last statement. I am hinging my response to your statement on it.

 

I suppose we are going to have to agree to disagree, I just think Jones's overall impact is greater than Hagens, I think that if you ask the average golf fan who the two are, more people could tell you about Jones than Hagen. The great thing is, is that they were contemporaries, in terms of skill they both got the best of each other on several occasions. If you want to look at the playing record:

 

US Opens Jones=4, Hagen=2 This is a big edge for Jones

US amatauers=Jones=5 PGA=Hagen =5 (Tie)

British Opens, Jones=3, Hagen =4 Slight edge for Hagen.

 

Both great players, it will always be a great debate.

[dlygrisse]

Thanx for replying,

I am not hinging my arguement about Jones as a whole on my last statement. I am hinging my response to your statement on it.

 

I suppose we are going to have to agree to disagree, I just think Jones's overall impact is greater than Hagens, I think that if you ask the average golf fan who the two are, more people could tell you about Jones than Hagen. The great thing is, is that they were contemporaries, in terms of skill they both got the best of each other on several occasions. If you want to look at the playing record:

 

US Opens Jones=4, Hagen=2 This is a big edge for Jones

US amatauers=Jones=5 PGA=Hagen =5 (Tie)

British Opens, Jones=3, Hagen =4 Slight edge for Hagen.

 

Both great players, it will always be a great debate.

[packerfan1]

It depends on the criteria for ranking the golfers...talent, impact on the game, etc.

 

Most modern tour golfers seem to consider Arnie to have had the biggest 'impact' on the game of golf...he is responsible for golf 'coming of age' in the 60's and beyond, responsible for more of an awareness of golf by the general public, respnsible for larger purses for the game, better coverage on TV, etc. Arnie has really made golf what it is today for the tour players. All modern players should bow and pay homage to Palmer every time they tee up at a PGA tour event or every time they cash a check from a tour event.

 

Different eras reflect different or hard to compare talent levels due to equipment changes, you can probably argue for any of maybe 4 or 5 golfers as being the best ever talent wise, depending on if you rank them by most wins, most majors, best hitters, etc. Some players retired while essentially in their prime (Jones and Nelson), others lost valuable playing years to injury (Hogan) or war service.

 

It is all good fun to rank golfers...great over a few beers to discuss.

[dlygrisse]

It depends on the criteria for ranking the golfers...talent, impact on the game, etc.

 

Most modern tour golfers seem to consider Arnie to have had the biggest 'impact' on the game of golf...he is responsible for golf 'coming of age' in the 60's and beyond, responsible for more of an awareness of golf by the general public, respnsible for larger purses for the game, better coverage on TV, etc. Arnie has really made golf what it is today for the tour players. All modern players should bow and pay homage to Palmer every time they tee up at a PGA tour event or every time they cash a check from a tour event.

 

Different eras reflect different or hard to compare talent levels due to equipment changes, you can probably argue for any of maybe 4 or 5 golfers as being the best ever talent wise, depending on if you rank them by most wins, most majors, best hitters, etc. Some players retired while essentially in their prime (Jones and Nelson), others lost valuable playing years to injury (Hogan) or war service.

 

It is all good fun to rank golfers...great over a few beers to discuss.

There is no doubt that Arnie has had a huge impact, that is why I put him as high on my original list as I did. If I went on playing record alone he would have struggled to make the top 10. I agree it is difficult to to compare players from different eras, however it is all relative if you think about it as what impact did they have during their era as compared to what others had during thier era.

What is your top 10 list of players based on playing record and impact on the game?

[packerfan1]

Talent / on course production / wins, I'd presently rank them this way:

 

1. Nicklaus---clutch clutch clutch, and he played against some of the best competition year in and out ever. Most seconds, too, of any guy in the majors...people forget how he was always there lurking, win or not, on the major leader boards. The guy could hit shots and putts like few before him or since.

2. Woods---Probably will be #1 when it is all said and done. He might own the major and total wins record when he retires. Talent and a work ethic like never seen before.

3. Jones---Retired early and in his prime...who knows what else he could have done? The matches considered 'majors' were different then, too. He blew away most other golfers in his era.

4. Snead---Sweet swing, leader in PGA tour wins...one of the big 3 of his era, with Hogan and Nelson. When you own the most wins on tour career wise, you have to make the top few golfers ever on the list.

5. Hogan---Basically a self taught golfer, who can do that and still succeed? Lost the chance for additional success over a year or two period because of his auto accident and again prior to that accident because of the war. Not often a crowd or media favorite, he was quite introverted, but the guy had talent and a practice regimen and dedication that most golfers would kill for.

6. Nelson---WWII probably hurt his win total, again, he retired earlier than normal in his career. Lots of people say that his streak in '45 wouldn't have happened if other golfers hadn't been overseas or helping the war effort, but his scores (you really play the course, not the competition) during the streak don't bear this point out. A great guy,, the media and fans loved him. Ambassador of the game, and a winner on the course.

7. Palmer---Talent, and he was the common man's golfer...along with Jack and Player among others they formed a second golden age of golf. Palmer was a force for 3 or 4 years in the early 60's that nobody could beat.

8. Hagen--Majors baby...majors.

9. Vardon---father of golf, he was the first 'star' and talent in golf in the US. If they had traveled more in his era, he probably would be higher on my list.

10. Player---sometimes underrated, the competition at the time was fierce on the tour. He had the talent to compete and hang with with Jack and Arnie.

 

HM talent wise (no order): Watson, Ouimet, Trevino, Casper, Greg Norman (ignore the problem with majors, he was pretty hot on tour for a few years, kind of a bridge betwen Jack and Tiger), Faldo.

 

 

'Impact' ranking (I felt that 5 made a major or very large impact on the sport for more than just talent or on course performance).

 

1. Palmer---the tour is what it is today $$$-wise because of him. The 'common man's' choice...he brought golf to the masses in a way few others ever have. Smoked on the course like a regular Joe, form wise, when he swung and putted he looked like the rest of us hackers on the course (of course his results were just a bit better). I suspect that many of us might not be playing golf as much as we do if it hadn't been for Palmer...the sport was still mostly a minor sport or pursuit and a 'rich person's sport' before Arnie. The guy was entertainment and athlete rolled into one, a cult figure that led many people to the sport, player and viewer alike.

2. Jones---an icon in his era when he played, ushered in the modern golf game in this country, along with Vardon. People now forget how much of a legend Jones was early in the last century during a time of great sporting legends in other sports like Babe Ruth. Course designer, the Masters, the guy did a hell of a lot for golf besides playing it, golf and golfers owe a debt to Jones to this day.

3. Nicklaus---responsible for a lot of the growth of the tour and golf recognition in the 60's-80's. His name is universally recognized by even non-golfers, along with Palmer and Tiger, and he is responsible in part for building the tour to what it is today. Later a prolific course designer.

4. Woods---who today doesn't know who 'Tiger' is????? Ads, fame, talent, demeanor, he has it all. The world is his oyster. The fact that he is on this list while only half way through his career speaks volumes about his impact on the game.

5. Vardon---very close to Jones ranking wise in some respects in my book, father of the modern game in the US and the modern swing grip. When they still almost exclusively use your golf grip (or close variations of it) 100 years later, you had to have done something right.

 

 

 

Of course, all of this is subject to argument and discussion, that is what makes this kind of topic fun. I am no expert, I probably forgot someone, especially from the early 20th century.

[drew123]

I think arnie had a great impact on the game but Tiger's impact is far greater. Tiger has since brough in the minority into the game as well as kids and countless adults. Tiger is also easily the most recongizable golfer or possibly athlete ever.

[dlygrisse]

I think arnie had a great impact on the game but Tiger's impact is far greater. Tiger has since brough in the minority into the game as well as kids and countless adults. Tiger is also easily the most recongizable golfer or possibly athlete ever.

 

 

I agree he will be the greatest when it is all said and done, give us your all time rankings as they stand right now, based on a combination of playing record and impact.