My swing... 240fps

[stym1e]

critique is welcome

This thread is especially helpful for those who have an "over the top swing".

Please check my updated swing from the bottom of the page! Thanks!

Hello world! :D

This is my swing from yesterday, after a winter break of about 6 months. All critique is welcome.

4 wood:
http://digory.kuvat.fi/kuvat/2012/maaliskuu/puu4_svingi1.mov

9iron:
http://digory.kuvat.fi/kuvat/2012/maaliskuu/rauta9_svingi1.mov


Only about a month more and we can start hitting outdoors here in Finland. yeeah!

Oh well, snow isn't always a "stymie" as you can see:

http://digory.kuvat....lf/snowgolf.png

[Ranger Rick]

Other than the cupped left wrist causing you to come over the top that is a solid looking swing. Try moving your left thumb closer to your hand. Search for the short thumb thread. It should help you keep a flat wrist.

[stym1e]

[quote name='Ranger Rick' timestamp='1332664077' post='4574580']
Other than the cupped left wrist causing you to come over the top that is a solid looking swing. Try moving your left thumb closer to your hand. Search for the short thumb thread. It should help you keep a flat wrist.
[/quote]

Do you mean that I should try with a "shorter thumb"? How about fixing the OTT by holding my back longer towards the target while lower body is rotating open?

I haven't been hitting outdoors for several months, but it looks like my "typical" shot starts way off right from the target line... is this consistant with the "thumb issue"?

[Ranger Rick]

I would rather work towards a flatter wrist, the short thumb helps achieve that. Go to your position at the top and then without moving your wrists take the club down to impact. It lands up at an awkward angle meaning you have to flip and save in order to hit it straight. Your downswing plane follows your wrist plane. Too vertical you come OTT, if it is cocked you will have too shallow a club and come in under plane like DJ.

Give the flat wrist a shot, it will certainly be easier to implement than getting your lower body going faster, it won't mess with your timing and it should work.

[Jonesy038]

Watched 4 wood vid. Looks very nice to the top, but first move down gets the shaft way steep.

[stp]

NOt sure what your target line was but it appears your shoulders were set open which makes it real hard to get the club going from the inside. Plenty of really good players with a cupped wrist at the top.

[stym1e]

I think I've found a fix to the OTT move...In those videos I've just let my shoulders start rotating open at the same time as my hips start turning open.

This is a common error move and it can be fixed by holding my shoulders turned back a little longer while my hips are rotating open... In this way the hips will be very open and shoulder line will be parallel to the target line at impact. I noticed that it will also automatically make my right arm come close to my right side which is needed to get the club to right plane.

take a close look how the hips are rotating open while his back remains towards the target:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7q7J21BeWhk&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL179391CCC1576D9C[/media]



I've had this same issue earlier, and it looks like a 6 months break from golf made me forget the right sequence. I just had forgot how much flexibility it takes to hit the ball properly by starting downswing with hip rotation and weight transfer while holding "back towards the target"... actually my physical abilities are quite opposite compared to Tiger, but this is what everyone should be trying to achieve

[stym1e]

I'm feeling that this "back towards the target" thing is only 50% of the solution. I'm actually working on having a flat wrist throughout backswing and to the impact position... I'm having a shut clubface at the top when my left wrist is flat, is this correct move?

[stym1e]

Hello.

I've been working on flatter left wrist throughout the swing. Check out my 9 iron from down the line:
[media]http://digory.kuvat.fi/kuvat/2012/huhtikuu/9iron_dtl.m4v[/media]

At the same time I've tried to practice keeping my wrist lag bigger... My 4iron from frontal view:
[url="http://digory.kuvat.fi/kuvat/2012/huhtikuu/4iron_front.m4v"]http://digory.kuvat....4iron_front.m4v[/url]

How does it look now? What to improve? Somehow I feel that I should still keep concentrating on the Over the top issue... Any ideas?

Thx!

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='Ranger Rick' timestamp='1332664077' post='4574580']
Other than the cupped left wrist causing you to come over the top that is a solid looking swing. Try moving your left thumb closer to your hand. Search for the short thumb thread. It should help you keep a flat wrist.
[/quote]

Fail lol.

A guy with a strong grip has to have a cupped left wrist to be square to the arc. Not everyone has to have a flat lead wrist at the top sir

[Ranger Rick]

Your impact position looks good, looks great at the top of the swing too. Is the OTT move causing issues with consistency or ball flight?

I see a slight early extension, try the chair drill, and your hands are getting sucked a touch inside, seriously a small amount, which may be the cause of your OTT and EE, there was a thread somewhere here recently for a drill to help this. Can't remember the topic though

[stym1e]

[quote name='Ranger Rick' timestamp='1333990660' post='4685394']
Your impact position looks good, looks great at the top of the swing too. Is the OTT move causing issues with consistency or ball flight?

I see a slight early extension, try the chair drill, and your hands are getting sucked a touch inside, seriously a small amount, which may be the cause of your OTT and EE, there was a thread somewhere here recently for a drill to help this. Can't remember the topic though
[/quote]

Thx, I'll search for the topic with key words "chair drill"...

I feel like I'm just a bit incosistent compared to my best situation where I've been...

This OTT is really driving me nuts :P

I'll make myself familiar with the chair drill and get back with updated swing after that...

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='stym1e' timestamp='1333990924' post='4685432']
[quote name='Ranger Rick' timestamp='1333990660' post='4685394']
Your impact position looks good, looks great at the top of the swing too. Is the OTT move causing issues with consistency or ball flight?

I see a slight early extension, try the chair drill, and your hands are getting sucked a touch inside, seriously a small amount, which may be the cause of your OTT and EE, there was a thread somewhere here recently for a drill to help this. Can't remember the topic though
[/quote]

Thx, I'll search for the topic with key words "chair drill"...

I feel like I'm just a bit incosistent compared to my best situation where I've been...

This OTT is really driving me nuts :P

I'll make myself familiar with the chair drill and get back with updated swing after that...
[/quote]

Yeah...once you shallow out you will miss the cupped wrist at the top. Youre gonna be hitting duck hooks all day. You gotta watch these guys on golfwrx. Some of them swear every guy on the planet needs a flat lead wrist at the top. Im still trying to get rid of my flat wrist at the top because of something I read on here years ago. It sucks

[stym1e]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1333991334' post='4685484']
[quote name='stym1e' timestamp='1333990924' post='4685432']
[quote name='Ranger Rick' timestamp='1333990660' post='4685394']
Your impact position looks good, looks great at the top of the swing too. Is the OTT move causing issues with consistency or ball flight?

I see a slight early extension, try the chair drill, and your hands are getting sucked a touch inside, seriously a small amount, which may be the cause of your OTT and EE, there was a thread somewhere here recently for a drill to help this. Can't remember the topic though
[/quote]

Thx, I'll search for the topic with key words "chair drill"...

I feel like I'm just a bit incosistent compared to my best situation where I've been...

This OTT is really driving me nuts :P

I'll make myself familiar with the chair drill and get back with updated swing after that...
[/quote]

Yeah...once you shallow out you will miss the cupped wrist at the top. Youre gonna be hitting duck hooks all day. You gotta watch these guys on golfwrx. Some of them swear every guy on the planet needs a flat lead wrist at the top. Im still trying to get rid of my flat wrist at the top because of something I read on here years ago. It sucks



[/quote]


Thanks for your advice... btw I found a really nice video of Jamie Sadlowski:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHcbU4Pvgys&feature=related[/media]

I would say that's definitely a cupper left wrist.. and if you watch the whole video you can see that his clubface is square... Somehow the cupped left wrist just feels so natural to me...

[Ranger Rick]

Sadlowski cups, he hits it far, but no one is sure which planet it will come down on. A slight cup isn't an issue but a big cup is. My wrist is pretty flat at the top and I can't hook it unless I really try something drastic.

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='Ranger Rick' timestamp='1334144243' post='4699042']
Sadlowski cups, he hits it far, but no one is sure which planet it will come down on. A slight cup isn't an issue but a big cup is. My wrist is pretty flat at the top and I can't hook it unless I really try something drastic.
[/quote]

dude. listen. If you have a strong grip at address then you have to have cup in the wrist at the top. If you have a strong grip at address and you have a VISUALLY flat wrist at the top then you are shut. Dont judge by the wrist...judge by the clubface.

[Ranger Rick]

His grip looked pretty neutral to my eye, Sadlowski probably grips it very strong. If you watch his videos his swing looks about 10x better now than before. Watch McIlroy, Oosthuizen or any of the sweet swinging guys on tour, they do not have a pronounced cup at the top. IMO if he sorts out the OTT, he strikes it much more consistently. The cupped wrist is semantics at that point.

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='Ranger Rick' timestamp='1334147938' post='4699294']
His grip looked pretty neutral to my eye, Sadlowski probably grips it very strong. If you watch his videos his swing looks about 10x better now than before. Watch McIlroy, Oosthuizen or any of the sweet swinging guys on tour, they do not have a pronounced cup at the top. IMO if he sorts out the OTT, he strikes it much more consistently. The cupped wrist is semantics at that point.
[/quote]

Agreed, but if he plays a round now you want the guy to enjoy it lol. Shut face at the top and OTT is a nasty combo. I know from experience

[stym1e]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1334162428' post='4701002']
[quote name='Ranger Rick' timestamp='1334147938' post='4699294']
His grip looked pretty neutral to my eye, Sadlowski probably grips it very strong. If you watch his videos his swing looks about 10x better now than before. Watch McIlroy, Oosthuizen or any of the sweet swinging guys on tour, they do not have a pronounced cup at the top. IMO if he sorts out the OTT, he strikes it much more consistently. The cupped wrist is semantics at that point.
[/quote]

Agreed, but if he plays a round now you want the guy to enjoy it lol. Shut face at the top and OTT is a nasty combo. I know from experience
[/quote]

Actually, I checked the early extension / chair drill video and I have to say that I'm familiar with the exercise... actually I've been doing it for over a year and I'm pretty sure that I'm not early extending...? I've been focusing on that really hard. Are you guys sure that I'm EE'ing?

And about the OTT issue... I think I'm gonna work on hitting from the inside, kind of lowering my shaft plane from the top of the back swing... I'm just not sure if I should modify my swing with a flat or cupped wrist. If I get the OTT fixed, should I try with a flat wrist then?

thanks!

[Ranger Rick]

You tell me, put a line down your um, bum, at adress, you move away and stand up during the swing. As I said it is slight and if Ernie Els and Paul Casey can play with one it shouldn't be a worry. This is just a thought but try a swing or two where instead of trying to hold your shoulders closed longer, try open your hips faster. Another drill for the OTT would be to try take your club away in a straight line for the first 18 inches/ 40cm roughly. It won't actually be straight but it should stop you bringing the club in and up then OTT. Try a few like this, perhaps video them if you like the results, if they do nothing they were simply drills they wont ingrain anything.

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='stym1e' timestamp='1334170186' post='4701970']
I've been focusing on that really hard. Are you guys sure that I'm EE'ing?
[/quote]

I never said early extending. We are talking about the clubshaft getting steeper and the hand move associated with it. Youre just firing the hands a little early

[stym1e]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1334203486' post='4705664']
[quote name='stym1e' timestamp='1334170186' post='4701970']
I've been focusing on that really hard. Are you guys sure that I'm EE'ing?
[/quote]

I never said early extending. We are talking about the clubshaft getting steeper and the hand move associated with it. Youre just firing the hands a little early
[/quote]

I'm gonna start working on the OTT issue today. I have and idea of dropping my hands into "the slot" and it's something that I've not been consiously doing earlier...even I've played for about 10-12 years. I'm gonna try something like this guy:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfBAnINcAHM[/media]

I have an idea and if I get the right feeling then I'm gonna record some videos and post them here. Somehow I feel that using the idea of slot swinging will limit my hip turn and makes me just sway... like this guy teaches:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_zCVTu_65A[/media]

[stym1e]

Ok, I went hitting some balls with an idea of "the slot" in my mind. And this is what my swing looks like now:

with 9 iron:
[media]http://digory.kuvat.fi/kuvat/2012/huhtikuu/slot_swing/9iron_dtl.m4v[/media]

and with driver:
[media]http://digory.kuvat.fi/kuvat/2012/huhtikuu/slot_swing/driver_dtl.m4v[/media]

In my opinion that driver swing was one of the best swings today but I don't really know if it's improved... it feels a little different than what my swing used to be. I noticed that only way to do "the slot" is to start dropping my hands at the same time as my hips start rotating open... Somehow I also hit about a dozen of swings where my wrists opened early and the clubhead hit the ground about 5-10 inches before the ball. Is that good or bad sign?

What do you think? Any improvements or something worse? what to expect now and should I countinue with this mindset?

Thanks!

[stym1e]

Any comments on my latest swings?

[Ranger Rick]

Looks like you hitting it solid to me. If you are happy with how you are striking it I would move to making it more ingrained. The only thing I would comment on, and it really is a personal preference is the right arm connection. Some prefer the high right arm, if you look at Harmon's guys they all seem to have it, some prefer a tight right arm which allows slightly better connection. I fall into the latter camp, if you look at guys like Hogan, Toms, Oosthuizen etc they all have a lower right arm at the top. To me it is basically allowing the club to be in the "slot" you speak of without manipulating it. However, as I said it is entirely a personal preference thing.

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='stym1e' timestamp='1334606589' post='4732864']
Any comments on my latest swings?
[/quote]

Try making swings and stopping here...
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[attachment=1123842:240fps golfwrx.jpg]

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Again this is my take. As far as Ranger rick's comment...we are talking to flatten the shaft in transition or in the backswing. Many threads on this and you will find what fits you best from trial and error. Here's a thread from mvmac on the "connection" of the trail arm. Hopefully Ranger can throw up some vids on other options and we can make this thread a benefit to the masses. Shoulders and lower body look great...no h***.
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[Ranger Rick]

I had a post typed out, thought let me have one more look just to make sure I am right, and I wasn't. Basically what I am seeing is you take the club back nicely and turn through, your arms then run on after your shoulders have stopped turning, this is gonna cause timing issues. Your arms run on and go very across the line then you drop them down into a pretty good position but your right arm is going to be stuck behind you, this causes you to bring it in over plane and flip to square it through impact. And don't get me wrong you do this well.

 

So here is my recommendation, try the Faldo pre-set drill. basically you set your wrists so the shaft is parallel to the ground and pointing straight down the target line, from there you basically do your pivot, once you get to the top STOP. Try set up a mirror behind you, look at your position at the top. Your current position is very across the line and your move to try get it in the slot is Sergio-esque, no am should ever copy his swing, there is only one person who can swing like that and we should leave it at that. If you look at Oosthuizen at the top notice how his right arm is connected to his chest, his forearm is near vertical and infront of his body. This is the position you are trying to drop your hands into currently, the Faldo drill should get you into a position like this near the top. Once you are in this position there isn't much to go wrong, it becomes much easier to keep the shaft on plane, you don't need to flip to square the face and golf becomes an easier game.

 

 

[russc1597187869]

Stym1e

Your problems are easily seen in the front video.Place your cursor on the outside of your left hip at setup and see how much your left hip moves laterally going back.Do the same thing with your head You have a substantial sway load at both the hip and the head going back with your weight going to the outside of your right leg at the top,instead of into your right leg at the top. .This changes your low point(resulting in fat shots),destroys any chances for an effective coil going back.and makes the distance to your left pivot point over your left heel/ankle that much further in distance Since there is only so much time in the downswing to cover this distance ,something has to be sacrificed ,either lateral movement or rotation.There are only three choices,none good for you in this circumstance .Either fail to move enough laterally to establish this left point and spinout,to establish your left pivot but truncate your rotation or to move laterally enough to avoid a spin out ,but not enough to effectively rotate .You have chosen the last or the least injurious.This problem also leads to your right heel coming off of the ground too soon and too much as you try to drive your legs far enough left.

Fix
The fix starts at the setup.You need to align your lower and middle spines and TILT them about 6-8 degrees away from the target at address.Then all you will need to do is to windup around this tilted spine going back with no lateral movement at the left hip or head(the head can rotate though) .The fix is simple.Take off your right shoe and take your stance.your spine will be tilted a small amount away from the target.Of course you play with both shoes on your feet,so the way to do the same thing with both shoes on is to kick your right hip down and in at address while bumping your left hip a bit to the left.Your hands should be just off your inner left thigh.Your head should also be aligned with your spine and tilted at the same angle.
To understand how to turn back watch this youtube video
Dan Whittaker"gothamgolffix#7" @13:30 "depth of turn drill" .Notice that Dan's left hip remains stationary from setup to the top, his head remains stable from setup to the top,how his spine angle is maintained from setup to the top,that his back is slightly tilted away from the target at the top to reflect his tilted spine angle and that space opens up at his right hip at the top vs setup.This space opening up is a great doublecheck to see if you have coiled correctly going back.

[Ranger Rick]

Russc, it sounds a lot like you are setting him up to swing according to the SF method, unless he chooses to switch to the method it could result in a pretty big mess. While obviously it is a very good method it isn't the only way to swing a club.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying you are wrong. You know more about the swing than just about anyone on the forum and your input on the 9-3 thread is awesome and helpful and I respect you a ton for that however I think that if you are giving him set up advice straight from the SF method he should know that. Mixing two many things could wreck his swing entirely.

Stym1e, I present to you the 9-3 thread and the SF method. My personal method of swinging the club (a work in progress) and if you are willing for the revamp, a very efficient way of swinging it. [url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/146842-93-drill-and-muchmuchmore/page__st__5220"]Slice away.[/url]

[russc1597187869]

[quote name='Ranger Rick' timestamp='1334764830' post='4745222']
Russc, it sounds a lot like you are setting him up to swing according to the SF method, unless he chooses to switch to the method it could result in a pretty big mess. While obviously it is a very good method it isn't the only way to swing a club.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying you are wrong. You know more about the swing than just about anyone on the forum and your input on the 9-3 thread is awesome and helpful and I respect you a ton for that however I think that if you are giving him set up advice straight from the SF method he should know that. Mixing two many things could wreck his swing entirely.

Stym1e, I present to you the 9-3 thread and the SF method. My personal method of swinging the club (a work in progress) and if you are willing for the revamp, a very efficient way of swinging it. [url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/146842-93-drill-and-muchmuchmore/page__st__5220"]Slice away.[/url]
[/quote]

Ranger
Lateral motion at the hip area in the backswing with irons is a "DEATH MOVE" no matter whose ideas you follow and while a small amount is ok with a driver because you want your weight to favor your right leg going back ,it should not be encouraged under any circumstance .To my knowledge only one teacher encourages lateral movement by the head going back and that is Mr. Ballard.And those students of Mr Ballard who do this have to move the head laterally back to the target going down ,which only complicates the swing not simplifying it.. Some of the things that Slicefixer ,Mr Foley and S+t have in common are a very stable head,very little to no lateral movement at the hips area going back and an impact position that is well into the left side.Lateral movement by the hips on the backswing destroys a golfers ability to be well into the left side at impact.Lateral motion going back changes a golfers low point ,changes his spine angle and forces his eyes to make numerous recalculations as to the distance to the ball.Nobody but nobody at the professional level plays golf from a backswing position where the weight is loaded to the outside of the right leg.Look at Rocco ,a student of Mr Ballard.He does move his head on the backswing as i noted ,but he does NOT load over the outside of the right leg at the top.
And what starts this lateral movement going back .It is setting up with a vertical spine..Once a golfer sets up with a vertical spine then there is marked tendency to move either the head ,hips or both going back.Styme1 shows no indication of an S+t backswing ,just a more traditional type backswing. The easiest and permament solution is to start with a slightly tilted spine.
One of the things that you should take from this is the danger of looking only at one view of the golf swing.You could try to make changes from a dtl prospective until the cows come home ,but unless you saw a front video Stymie1 's large sway load would escape you.Maybe not Slicefixer or Mr Foley ,but you and i , and many others ,yes.And of course i come from a Slice fixer prospective .it does not take an in depth reading of my posts to come to that conclusion.and while setting up with a lower and middle spine tilted slightly away from the target is part of the Slicefixer setup.i did not make any further suggestions as to the release which is the very heart of the Slicefixer swing