hogan leverage

[bscinstnct]

It there anything about Hogan's swing that indicates that he employed a motion that could be used to raise weight of the ground? Like if he were using a cable and pulleys. And gear effect to lift mass.

 

Is this an odd question?

 

[svsvincenzo]

Not sure if I got the question...but wouldn't the R elbow bending (R forearm elevating) and shoulders turning upwards lift mass?

[drewspin]

Yes, it's an odd question.

Better question would be, if Hogan's motion of arms and club represents a swinging lever, where are his fulcrums?

[svsvincenzo]

Defunitely not the L wrist, nor the R wrist. Main fulcrum as far as lifting weight would be the L shoulder, with R elbow/forearm assisting. Other things will make you disconnect the armpits. JMHO of course.

[drewspin]

HG101 - Look for the breaks in the lines...

what is required to maintain that more perpendicularish angle you're fond of? Don't you need a fulcrum down there between the upper arms and club (somewhere) to maintain that ?

Brian Gay might fulcrum at the L shoulder.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVoifaQ27HU[/media]

Compare to:

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM8Kg6C62KM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM8Kg6C62KM[/url]

[svsvincenzo]

I don't know what you're talking about. Confi agreement signed...lol

[drewspin]

[IH82BOGEY]

[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1345337383' post='5496206']
It there anything about Hogan's swing that indicates that he employed a motion that could be used to raise weight of the ground? Like if he were using a cable and pulleys. And gear effect to lift mass.

Is this an odd question?
[/quote]

Do you mean a combination of pulling with the left arm while pushing or holding with the right arm? (Inner and outer forces). Some believe he made a moving fulcrum by pulling the left side around a fulcurm (pivot point) made from the right elbow braced against the right hip. However, a counter argument would be he couldnt employ the throwing motion (as described in 5L) of the right arm or hit with the right hand if the right arm is just a fulcum point attached to the right hip.

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='IH82BOGEY' timestamp='1345656967' post='5516502']
[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1345337383' post='5496206']
It there anything about Hogan's swing that indicates that he employed a motion that could be used to raise weight of the ground? Like if he were using a cable and pulleys. And gear effect to lift mass.

Is this an odd question?
[/quote]

Do you mean a combination of pulling with the left arm while pushing or holding with the right arm? (Inner and outer forces). Some believe he made a moving fulcrum by pulling the left side around a fulcurm (pivot point) made from the right elbow braced against the right hip. However, a counter argument would be he couldnt employ the throwing motion (as described in 5L) of the right arm or hit with the right hand if the right arm is just a fulcum point attached to the right hip.
[/quote]

This is interesting -

I know Dan Whittaker talks about the right elbow being the fulcrum (not necessarily of Hogan's swing, but for his model). I really like the idea.

Maybe I'm crazy, but I was messing with this last night, and when I feel my right elbow as a fulcrum, it feels very in front and leading into impact, then it almost feels like it passively moves away from the target post impact as the club releases and right arm bend is maintained with connection to the body.

[svsvincenzo]

Ain't the R elbow just in front aka in pitch elbow just a means to maintain the lag/L wristc0ck WHILE you go down to hip height aka early elbow plane? Don't see how it can be a fulcrum if you're turning/pivoting while on your L leg. So IMO it's L shoulder and L wrist as the 2 fulcrums, not just one, so you have to treat them both with equal attention. Fulcrums=hinge pins in TGM. So fulcrums doesn't only bend and unbend, they turn/roll/hinge as well. The R elbow leading and bent affects the R wrist's action though, hence the L wrist hinge pin's actions too. But these are all TGM stuff.

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1345688740' post='5519370']
Ain't the R elbow just in front aka in pitch elbow just a means to maintain the lag/L wristc0ck WHILE you go down to hip height aka early elbow plane? Don't see how it can be a fulcrum if you're turning/pivoting while on your L leg. So IMO it's L shoulder and L wrist as the 2 fulcrums, not just one, so you have to treat them both with equal attention. Fulcrums=hinge pins in TGM. So fulcrums doesn't only bend and unbend, they turn/roll/hinge as well. The R elbow leading and bent affects the R wrist's action though, hence the L wrist hinge pin's actions too. But these are all TGM stuff.
[/quote]

I'm not sure what exactly Dan ment by this but I thought of it more as a balance point. So I thought of the right arm and club as all one unit. And the upprer right arm and shoulder offset the weight of the clubhead. So the fulcrum point on that unit (club and right arm) is the elbow. So then my goal is to pivot so the upper right arm stays connected and in front and so the fulcrum doesn't chase away from my body.

I don't know if this is what Dan means though but I kind of like the idea regardless. Haven't messed with it too much though. Not really sure if it's practical.

[drewspin]

[url="http://images.google.com/hosted/life/b5fe847543bfb669.html"]http://images.google...7543bfb669.html[/url]

[url="http://images.google.com/hosted/life/4300ec43e914bd2b.html"]http://images.google.com/hosted/life/4300ec43e914bd2b.html[/url]

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='drewspin' timestamp='1345731324' post='5521236']
[url="http://images.google.com/hosted/life/b5fe847543bfb669.html"]http://images.google...7543bfb669.html[/url]

[url="http://images.google.com/hosted/life/4300ec43e914bd2b.html"]http://images.google...43e914bd2b.html[/url]
[/quote]

great pictures.. continue (PLEASE)

[drewspin]

Palmer

[url="http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/cd4985b2ba142ece_large"]http://www.gstatic.c...2ba142ece_large[/url]

[url="http://images.google.com/hosted/life/6067d8f8ae1612ef.html"]http://images.google...f8ae1612ef.html[/url]

Furgol

[url="http://images.google.com/hosted/life/b3053fd4857623e4.html"]http://images.google...d4857623e4.html[/url]

Snead
[url="http://images.google.com/hosted/life/48a566165a862659.html"]http://images.google...165a862659.html[/url]

Tiger (not stuck here).
[attachment=1317030:tiger_woods_not stuck.jpg]

The Man
[attachment=1317034:14327.jpg]

[drewspin]

Trevino
[attachment=1317060:Trevino.jpg]

Roger Chapman
[attachment=1317062:Roger Chapman.jpg]

Furyk
[attachment=1317064:furyk.jpg]

Bobby Nichols
[attachment=1317066:Bobby Nichols.jpg]

[tylerdurden]

Drewspin - could you talk about the fulcrum? What are your thoughts. Just curious.

[dairic]

[quote name='drewspin' timestamp='1345735052' post='5521626']

The Man
[attachment=1317034:14327.jpg]
[/quote]

Check out the tension in his muscles. Fighting forces for sure. Holding it in while the club wants to fly outward. Swing weight must feel heavy.

[hoganfan924]

Every simple joint in the body about which movement occurs is a fulcrum. The bones that meet at those joints are levers. For example, your elbow joint is a fulcrum of the lever of your radius bone (and ulna). When you do a curl, your biceps muscle contracts which pulls the radius bone closer to your upper arm. This example is a class 3 lever.

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='drewspin' timestamp='1345735052' post='5521626']
Tiger (not stuck here).
[attachment=1317030:tiger_woods_not stuck.jpg]

The Man
[attachment=1317034:14327.jpg]
[/quote]

I don't think the right elbow is a fulcrum in either of these. The pitch elbow allows them to pull with both hands with the upper body rotation.

[hoganfan924]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1345745749' post='5522756']
[quote name='drewspin' timestamp='1345735052' post='5521626']
Tiger (not stuck here).
[attachment=1317030:tiger_woods_not stuck.jpg]

The Man
[attachment=1317034:14327.jpg]
[/quote]

I don't think the right elbow is a fulcrum in either of these. The pitch elbow allows them to pull with both hands with the upper body rotation.
[/quote]

Certainly if you aren't in the process of straightening the right arm before impact, then you aren't using the forearm levers acting about the elbow fulcrum to supply power.

[IH82BOGEY]

I dont think the (right arm as a fulcrum) theory guys mean it medically or TGM related. They mean the right arm is functioning sort of like a seesaw support for the club. To complete the analogy, the hip is the ground, the right arm is as the support under the bench, and the club shaft is the bench. The difference is the hip (ground) and the right arm (support) are in motion together at seemingly the same rate through the impact area.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4DCZuAj5Mg[/media]

Here at 24 seconds see how the right elbow is braced against hip and in time turning with the hip.

[drewspin]

[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1345745419' post='5522728']
Every simple joint in the body about which movement occurs is a fulcrum. The bones that meet at those joints are levers. For example, your elbow joint is a fulcrum of the lever of your radius bone (and ulna). When you do a curl, your biceps muscle contracts which pulls the radius bone closer to your upper arm. This example is a class 3 lever.
[/quote]

Yes. Hard to argue with these facts.

I think it is interesting that in a golf swing, sometimes it is an [u]intent [/u]to contract a muscle that engages the bones to move around a joint (intent to do a bicep curl), but other times the muscles are REACTING to the swinging mass of the club (and arms).

This dynamic motion always involves both. Intentional muscle movements as actions, and reactionary muscle movements.

In the Hogan photo, there have been many armchair internet debates on where is the source of the power, right side or left side.

One of the reactionary ways muscles can be engaged is when a joint reaches the anatomical limits its range of motion. Looking at a picture it is hard to tell what is the action, and what is the reaction.... just sayin.

[svsvincenzo]

Agree with MizunoJoe. R elbow being in pitch/in/leading lets the body to pull everything. Go into punch and go bye bye L side pull....you better know how to push with the R side and it better be strong to compensate for the loss of CP force pull of the L side, though TGM likes to move everything with the R shoulder.

[ALIF]

[quote name='IH82BOGEY' timestamp='1345747070' post='5522890']
I dont think the (right arm as a fulcrum) theory guys mean it medically or TGM related. They mean the right arm is functioning sort of like a seesaw support for the club. To complete the analogy, the hip is the ground, the right arm is as the support under the bench, and the club shaft is the bench. The difference is the hip (ground) and the right arm (support) are in motion together at seemingly the same rate through the impact area.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4DCZuAj5Mg[/media]

Here at 24 seconds see how the right elbow is braced against hip and in time turning with the hip.
[/quote]

That bench analogy is the best way to explain the right hip, elbow, and forearm I've ever read! Thanks so much. Maybe the most important concept and thing to do properly in the entire swing.

[bscinstnct]

I am in slack jawed shock. I have started a Hogan thread worthy of so many replies.

This information is fantastic, thank you.

My thinking is that given a rope with pulleys and *heavy* weight that needs to be lifted on the downswing
, Hogan would have lifted the weight higher than most everyone elses, since he holds his leverage for so
long compared to those who straighten the right arm so much earlier