Did Hogan keep left shoulder externally rotated throughout BS and DS?

[Asleep]

[quote name='farmer' timestamp='1345398785' post='5498736']
These posts from eightiron are as bad as I've seen on this board. Agree or disagree with the OP, but this is ridiculous.
[/quote][b]Please use the REPORT! button for forum rules violations, thanks.[/b]

GolfWRX

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1345404489' post='5499112']
[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1345390793' post='5498256']
And I could give more examples but I think Brian Gay working with TGM machine poster boy Lynn Blake is enough for me to know I'm not interested in whatever it is he's selling. I mean no disrespect, obviously Brian Gay can play and obviously his swing functions better than anyone that currently posts on here, but it still fits my definition of "sh*t".

Again I'd love to see yours and have tried to find it, but the only place it took me to was a Halley's Comet wiki page (no joke there although I thought it was hilarious).
[/quote]

Here's TGM at its best. When elk was in his prime he had on of the best swings of all time period. It's a beautiful thing to watch.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVX3LmqhdqM&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/media]
[/quote]

You say beautiful, I say flippy 80s style swing that popcorns the ball. So again, if that's TGM at it's best, then I think it's crap because 1 - if I'm going to stall flip at the ball I atleast want to hit it far, and 2 - if I'm not going to hit it far then I don't want to flip and have rapid clubface closure.

I'm a fan of Robert Rock's action, but that's MORAD last time I checked, not TGM. Same with Mac.

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1345397601' post='5498644']
No it's him. Writing style is the same. Eightiron must have had enough of the TGM-bagging TD and some guys in here are so fond of. People really hate the smart ones...lol
[/quote]

As far as TGM bashing, I'm giving my opinion and explaining it. I thought that is what a forum is for. And I've made it clear it's coming from a guy who hasn't read the book, so take it with a grain of salt. No need to get your panties in a bunch.

And I question your definition of smart if you're calling a bitter, belligerent, want to be tough guy who is emboldened by his keyboard smart. I understand why the guy wants to remain anonymous at this point.

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1345420312' post='5500092']
[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1345397601' post='5498644']
No it's him. Writing style is the same. Eightiron must have had enough of the TGM-bagging TD and some guys in here are so fond of. People really hate the smart ones...lol
[/quote]

As far as TGM bashing, I'm giving my opinion and explaining it. I thought that is what a forum is for. And I've made it clear it's coming from a guy who hasn't read the book, so take it with a grain of salt. No need to get your panties in a bunch.

And I question your definition of smart if you're calling a bitter, belligerent, want to be tough guy who is emboldened by his keyboard smart. I understand why the guy wants to remain anonymous at this point.
[/quote]

Just saying, why the need to say TGM is sh1t? Especially if you don't know sh1t about it? MORAD came from TGM, there's just something they don't agree upon, but that something is TGM as well. They just disagree on the option or final product. If you find Brian Gay's swing sh1t, same holds true for every method out there--every method has a sh1itty swing in one's mind. As I've said, I find it hypocritical to bag TGM as a whole and then delve into some of its things. I know I sound like a TGM henchman or bouncer, but I feel the need to say these things because those who really know ain't posting anymore. Jesus certainly doesn't and won't bash/bag anyone or any group or method, especially if he doesn't know about it.

[dairic]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1345419942' post='5500062']
[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1345404489' post='5499112']
[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1345390793' post='5498256']
And I could give more examples but I think Brian Gay working with TGM machine poster boy Lynn Blake is enough for me to know I'm not interested in whatever it is he's selling. I mean no disrespect, obviously Brian Gay can play and obviously his swing functions better than anyone that currently posts on here, but it still fits my definition of "sh*t".

Again I'd love to see yours and have tried to find it, but the only place it took me to was a Halley's Comet wiki page (no joke there although I thought it was hilarious).
[/quote]

Here's TGM at its best. When elk was in his prime he had on of the best swings of all time period. It's a beautiful thing to watch.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVX3LmqhdqM&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/media]
[/quote]

You say beautiful, I say flippy 80s style swing that popcorns the ball. So again, if that's TGM at it's best, then I think it's crap because 1 - if I'm going to stall flip at the ball I atleast want to hit it far, and 2 - if I'm not going to hit it far then I don't want to flip and have rapid clubface closure.

I'm a fan of Robert Rock's action, but that's MORAD last time I checked, not TGM. Same with Mac.
[/quote]

I'd take the flippy 80s style swing that popcorns the ball any day of the week if it resulted in multiple PGA tour wins including a major. Function over Form. If you can be consistent and successful with a flippy swing then what's the problem and on what basis could you call it crap?

If I had to choose between a hogan or flippy style swing today I'd choose the hogan style one because I believe it would provide me with a better chance of success. But for those who chose flippy and have reached the top of the golfing world then I say good on ya.

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1345430143' post='5500978']
Just saying, why the need to say TGM is sh1t? Especially if you don't know sh1t about it? MORAD came from TGM, there's just something they don't agree upon, but that something is TGM as well. They just disagree on the option or final product. If you find Brian Gay's swing sh1t, same holds true for every method out there--every method has a sh1itty swing in one's mind. As I've said, I find it hypocritical to bag TGM as a whole and then delve into some of its things. I know I sound like a TGM henchman or bouncer, but I feel the need to say these things because those who really know ain't posting anymore. Jesus certainly doesn't and won't bash/bag anyone or any group or method, especially if he doesn't know about it.
[/quote]

Alright dude for the sake of not wasting any more time I won't chime in on TGM.

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1345430824' post='5501032']
I'd take the flippy 80s style swing that popcorns the ball any day of the week if it resulted in multiple PGA tour wins including a major. Function over Form. If you can be consistent and successful with a flippy swing then what's the problem and on what basis could you call it crap?

If I had to choose between a hogan or flippy style swing today I'd choose the hogan style one because I believe it would provide me with a better chance of success. But for those who chose flippy and have reached the top of the golfing world then I say good on ya.
[/quote]

I call it crap by my definition of crap which is short hitting flipper. I don't mean the guy can't play or hit the ball. Obviously he's talented. I just still think it's crap because my own opinions about what I think makes a golf swing good. Again it's only my opinion.

And I'd take his results and his flippy swing too if I could win PGA tour events. But I hit it left and right with a flippy swing which is why I think they suck and why I want to burn it down.

Anyway I'm just going to stop commenting on TGM stuff because TGM guys are clearly emotional/senstive/easily offended and I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

[Arafel]

Did eightiron get the boot?

[ALIF]

[quote name='sustain' timestamp='1345431655' post='5501116']
Did eightiron get the boot?
[/quote]

Wouldn't doubt it. I saw some of the posts have been deleted including one of mine which BTW wasn't offensive or argumentative. I just think the mod struck them all down. It's nice to keep it civil and to agree to disagree:)

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1345431632' post='5501112']
[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1345430824' post='5501032']
I'd take the flippy 80s style swing that popcorns the ball any day of the week if it resulted in multiple PGA tour wins including a major. Function over Form. If you can be consistent and successful with a flippy swing then what's the problem and on what basis could you call it crap?

If I had to choose between a hogan or flippy style swing today I'd choose the hogan style one because I believe it would provide me with a better chance of success. But for those who chose flippy and have reached the top of the golfing world then I say good on ya.
[/quote]

I call it crap by my definition of crap which is short hitting flipper. I don't mean the guy can't play or hit the ball. Obviously he's talented. I just still think it's crap because my own opinions about what I think makes a golf swing good. Again it's only my opinion.

And I'd take his results and his flippy swing too if I could win PGA tour events. But I hit it left and right with a flippy swing which is why I think they suck and why I want to burn it down.

Anyway I'm just going to stop commenting on TGM stuff because TGM guys are clearly emotional/senstive/easily offended and I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.
[/quote]

TD, its not about being emotional or sensitive...its about respect...like your method or swing, I'm sure at least one won't like it but definitely won't call it sh1t. Eight laughs at your swing, and he's really knowledgeable, but he called your thing sh1t only after you did the same to TGM.

And dude, you don't know sh1t about TGM. How can you properly criticize it? Would you say that babe looks good, she must be a good wife...know what I'm saying?

And, did you know that Mac hits it a mile without flipping at all? Did you know that Elk is a TGMer and has the highest level one can achieve in TGM? Did you know that one of TGM's foremost fundamental is a FLAT L WRIST? So IMHO, you really sorta overboard and baseless in what you're saying. I disagree with some methods, but I NEVER, I NEVER say that method is crap. NEVER. Like the swing low and left, or level turning of shoulders...I disagree with it...but I never call the methods that advocate them as crap.

Just saying MHO Tyler...

If you would just study the basics of TGM, I sincerely believe you will get to analyze and understand the golf swing a LOOOOT better...you may not agree with TGM's prescribed components or options or end final package as a whole, but you will learn a LOT...you may choose MORAD...you may choose Clampett's...you may choose Brian Manzella's...you may choose Tom Tomasello's...you may choose Lynn Blake's (present main man)...you may even choose the "X" TGM swing method (lol...)...you may even choose MizunoJoe's (I presume MJ doesn't agree with everything...lol)...but in the process you'll find your thing a LOT better and faster...again, JMHO...not being sensitive here...if you call a certain TGM thing/issue/component/fundamental as sh1t, in that case I may not get too sensitive...lol...I'm more than willing to discuss it for years with anybody...

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1345420312' post='5500092']
[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1345397601' post='5498644']
No it's him. Writing style is the same. Eightiron must have had enough of the TGM-bagging TD and some guys in here are so fond of. People really hate the smart ones...lol
[/quote]

As far as TGM bashing, I'm giving my opinion and explaining it. I thought that is what a forum is for. And I've made it clear it's coming from a guy who hasn't read the book, so take it with a grain of salt. No need to get your panties in a bunch.

And I question your definition of smart if you're calling a bitter, belligerent, want to be tough guy who is emboldened by his keyboard smart. I understand why the guy wants to remain anonymous at this point.
[/quote]

I meant TGM/Homer Kelley a the smart ones....

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1345430824' post='5501032']
[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1345419942' post='5500062']

You say beautiful, I say flippy 80s style swing that popcorns the ball. So again, if that's TGM at it's best, then I think it's crap because 1 - if I'm going to stall flip at the ball I atleast want to hit it far, and 2 - if I'm not going to hit it far then I don't want to flip and have rapid clubface closure.

I'm a fan of Robert Rock's action, but that's MORAD last time I checked, not TGM. Same with Mac.
[/quote]

I'd take the flippy 80s style swing that popcorns the ball any day of the week if it resulted in multiple PGA tour wins including a major. Function over Form. If you can be consistent and successful with a flippy swing then what's the problem and on what basis could you call it crap?

If I had to choose between a hogan or flippy style swing today I'd choose the hogan style one because I believe it would provide me with a better chance of success. But for those who chose flippy and have reached the top of the golfing world then I say good on ya.
[/quote]

What I really find funny about TD calling TGM flippy-wristed sh1t, is the fact that he's all over chasing Hogan, yet he's not so sure Hogan may be also flipping his L wrist...ROFL!...it just doesn't get behind the clubhead at impact...well, except for super high high shots of course...ROFL...those who don't know anything are really funny sometimes...ROFL...TD don't get your panties in bunch, you may actually learn something in here for once...ROFL...

[ALIF]

HG101 you're a good man:)

[tylerdurden]

I'm going to play mute on all this. Best of luck TGMers. Great book great swings really great people.

[svsvincenzo]

Hey, no hard feelings TD. Just saying MHO...you have a great swing and a great person as well...you'll have a great book too if you make one...

[ALIF]

Tyler, hg101 is really trying to be cool about all this. Its ok if you don't like TGM. Honestly, the only thing I know about it is that it seems very complicated, therefore, I have no interest in it and even kind of dislike it even though I've never read it. That's closed minded on my part but it is what it is. I think he's not being sensitive. He means what he says. He'll respect you and your thoughts if you do the same. Alls good:)

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1345441500' post='5501730']
Hey, no hard feelings TD. Just saying MHO...you have a great swing and a great person as well...you'll have a great book too if you make one...
[/quote]

Lol funny guy - and no worries. I am sure it really is a great book. And I'm sure I'll pick it up at some point. Just not ready to yet. I'll never like elk's swing though.

[tylerdurden]

and didn't mean to direct the sarcastic "great people" quip at you. was referring to nineiron.

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='chiva' timestamp='1345441836' post='5501740']
Tyler, hg101 is really trying to be cool about all this. Its ok if you don't like TGM. Honestly, the only thing I know about it is that it seems very complicated, therefore, I have no interest in it and even kind of dislike it even though I've never read it. That's closed minded on my part but it is what it is. I think he's not being sensitive. He means what he says. He'll respect you and your thoughts if you do the same. Alls good:)
[/quote]

Agreed, I'm going to stop being disrepectful.

[svsvincenzo]

This would be a nice warm-up to the Yellow Book...helps avoid the headache...

http://3jack.blogspot.com/2009/05/understanding-basics-of-tgm-part-i.html

[tylerdurden]

I'm in after "Jack Nicklaus wouldn't know float loading from a root beer float and he's currently the greatest player that ever lived."

[svsvincenzo]

So you're into Jack Nicklaus' swing now?

[ej002]

Goats really need to watch out for elks - TGM maybe, but not ideal in those circles.

But to TD, I think you are wrong in your analysis. Something else must not be working right if that is what you are getting.

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1345470532' post='5502614']
I'm in after "Jack Nicklaus wouldn't know float loading from a root beer float and he's currently the greatest player that ever lived."
[/quote]

No I thought the root beer float comment was funny, especially given his mid section.

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1345382927' post='5497840']
I think he did post secret. I think it's why he could feel so much forearm rotation and still have the shaft not be overly flat in the backswing (like I struggle with). And I think it's why through impact his left arm get so close to him.

If you get and keep left shoulder internally rotated into and through impact, it forces you to back out of it through impact (like pre secret hogan). In other words, it's pretty much impossible to have left shoulder internal rotation through impact and to slam the left elbow into the body and release the club. If you try (like I have) you hit it a MILE right.

Anyone else already know or agree with this? Or is it just another bad idea compliments of me?
[/quote]

Turn your shoulders more vertically. That means the L shoulder more down, like what SnT teaches. L shoulder tilting down left, L side bending. Do same thing with your L arm/forearm/hand---rotate them CW like crazy... Check out what happens...I'll bet the shaft will no longer be overly flat/over-rotated. That's why I keep on saying...turn the shoulders more vertically...it will solve a LOOOOT of problems of Hoganites...

[hoganfan924]

TD,

To your original point, I think you got it wrong on this one. I don't see any evidence of what you're saying for the backswing and see plenty to the contrary. What you're suggesting is very difficult to do. Completely opposite of what Tom Bertrand claims Hogan did as well. Tom was John Schlee's assistant in the 80's. He used to pop in here occasionally as "schleeman" but hasn't posted in a long time. He was very generous in filling in some details that helped me develop a more complete picture of why Hogan did what he did when (in his career) he did it. Granted, you don't want add a bunch of internal rotation of the left humerous on the backswing as that has a tendency to lift the left shoulder and move the upper arm off of the chest. Definitely want to feel that rotation is forearm only as much as possible.

BTW, it wouldn't be the shoulder, but the humerous.