George Knudson, a swing more 'Hogan' than Hogan himself

 JBOMB808 ·  
JBOMB808JBOMB808 Lag and LeverageMembers  444WRX Points: 1Posts: 444 Bunkers
Joined:  edited Jul 28, 2012 in Hogan's Heroes Swing Forum #1
Anyone have any insight on George and his swing? He has wins on the PGA tour and has a sweet swing to prove it. His putter was a different story, but he's known by Trevino and numerous others to strike it like a 'master'. I really like his instructional book too. He really simplifies it down to having 'balance'.





PGA Tour wins (8)

http://www.pgatour.c...george-knudson/



[media=]

video by bhughes
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  • ej002ej002 Unregistered  5129WRX Points: 3Posts: 5,129 Titanium Tees
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    I think there is a story about him sneaking to watch Hogan practice and he got busted and Hogan said let him watch...
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  • wikowiko Members  120WRX Points: 0Posts: 120
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    hi i have george knudsons excellent book anyone know how to find his dvd on training thanks
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  • tylerdurdentylerdurden Members  1261WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,261
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    he's a stud for sure but no one was more Hogan than Hogan. Bogus title. Although I'm guilty of the same offense on numerous counts.
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  • hoganfan924hoganfan924 Members  5185WRX Points: 55Posts: 5,185 Titanium Tees
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    I got his "the swing motion" video on ebay a few years ago. Have seen it sell on DVD as well. Pretty good. Very simple concepts
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  • ArnsybillArnsybill Members  295WRX Points: 74Posts: 295 Greens
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    It's sad GK died young. I think his teaching would have developed further if he lived... I don't think he reached his potential as a teacher.



    See the Geoff Jones thread... I think it adds lots to what Knudson says... makes it very real for most players.



    Best instruction I've ever seen in 30+ years playing...
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  • coachgcoachg Members  72WRX Points: 42Posts: 72 Bunkers
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    I got his "the swing motion" video on ebay a few years ago. Have seen it sell on DVD as well. Pretty good. Very simple concepts
    Interesting about the knee flex in pic 5 and 6. He always appeared to be flatter in the back swing than Hogan.
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  • coachgcoachg Members  72WRX Points: 42Posts: 72 Bunkers
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    JBOMB808 wrote:


    Anyone have any insight on George and his swing? He has wins on the PGA tour and has a sweet swing to prove it. His putter was a different story, but he's known by Trevino and numerous others to strike it like a 'master'. I really like his instructional book too. He really simplifies it down to having 'balance'.





    PGA Tour wins (8)

    http://www.pgatour.c...george-knudson/



    [media=]

    video by bhughes


    Nicklaus was quoted as saying "George had a million dollar swing and a ten cent putting stroke."
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  • svsvincenzosvsvincenzo Members  1822WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,822
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    How's Knudson's distance? Is he powerful as well like Snead and Hogan?
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  • JBOMB808JBOMB808 Lag and Leverage Members  444WRX Points: 1Posts: 444 Bunkers
    Joined:  edited Aug 14, 2012 #10


    How's Knudson's distance? Is he powerful as well like Snead and Hogan?




    I want to say he must of had pretty good distance, not super long, but not a short knocker either. What seems to stand out to me the most was his accuracy and distance control. He said the rate at which he transferred his weight from his back foot to his front foot determined his clubhead speed.

    He tore up this round of golf with his ball-striking and not his putting. Take note of all the short shots and the curvature and spin of his long shots. Low running wedges, high check up mid-irons, full release drives.

    [media=]
    Posted:
    Secret is in the dirt
  • coachgcoachg Members  72WRX Points: 42Posts: 72 Bunkers
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    Thanks for posting that Shell Wonderful World of Golf video.

    He was one of the all time great ball strikers.

    What do you think of the big knee bend in his swing.
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  • coachgcoachg Members  72WRX Points: 42Posts: 72 Bunkers
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    How's Knudson's distance? Is he powerful as well like Snead and Hogan?


    270 seemed to be his best drives on the video...Pretty long for that time period.

    His accuracy off the tee and GIR were off the charts. Too bad he putted like

    Stevie Wonder...
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  • svsvincenzosvsvincenzo Members  1822WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,822
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    Great great swing and ball striking.



    I think the better question is, what does he has in common with Hogan that is the most that contributes to his great ball striking? Gilly09 you are disqualified for this quiz...rather, overqualified...image/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />
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  • JBOMB808JBOMB808 Lag and Leverage Members  444WRX Points: 1Posts: 444 Bunkers
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    I'm going to say footwork and a connected left side(low left release). My avatar shows what that connection looks like post impact.

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  • svsvincenzosvsvincenzo Members  1822WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,822
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    As I've been saying, I disagree with the low and left release. So that's not what I'm referring to.
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  • JBOMB808JBOMB808 Lag and Leverage Members  444WRX Points: 1Posts: 444 Bunkers
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    As I've been saying, I disagree with the low and left release. So that's not what I'm referring to.




    I'm sorry, I don't recall you ever saying (in this thread at least) that you disagree with the low left release. What -are you referring to?
    Posted:
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  • jak_botjak_bot Members  628WRX Points: 50Posts: 628 Bunkers
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    Nothing low and left in this pic.

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  • JBOMB808JBOMB808 Lag and Leverage Members  444WRX Points: 1Posts: 444 Bunkers
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    Not really the best angle to prove a point, but I think perspective is without a doubt important. I think low and left is relative to the angle of the arms after impact down the line.

    Have a look at this...

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-CZ5kK_qqhwE/TgnlooMxlOI/AAAAAAAAAAo/HaR-dtRFnJ0/s760/BenHogan.jpg

    and this...

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_1ZRJTmTx3LI/THL6AFiNUnI/AAAAAAAAAms/zWCVdeOhuXU/s1600/Hogan+left+3.bmp

    and compare to this...

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kNtAwQnLHRY/TtU3-KFRryI/AAAAAAAAA1o/ivBGAtjt4OI/s1600/hit_swing.jpg
    Posted:
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  • cardoustiecardoustie haha, we don't play for 5's Tasmania to CanadaMembers  13759WRX Points: 2,618Handicap: 0.9 >< 3.8Posts: 13,759 Titanium Tees
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    One of my previous instructors spent a LOT of time with GK. He was a beauty that loved red wine and cigarettes .. and also teaching his theories on golf



    Nicklaus once commented that Knudson had "a million dollar swing and a 10c putter" .. same thing with Hogan which is ironic



    The quote may be off a whisker but you get the gist



    Cool that two very re-known ball strikers were Canadians (I am including Moe of course)
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  • jak_botjak_bot Members  628WRX Points: 50Posts: 628 Bunkers
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    JBOMB808 wrote:


    Not really the best angle to prove a point, but I think perspective is without a doubt important. I think low and left is relative to the angle of the arms after impact down the line.

    Have a look at this...

    http://3.bp.blogspot...60/BenHogan.jpg

    and this...

    http://2.bp.blogspot...ogan left 3.bmp

    and compare to this...

    http://1.bp.blogspot...0/hit_swing.jpg




    The first pic I definitely don't see low and left. Actually that's the same picture that got me thinking there is very little low and left in Hogan's swing. The butt end of the club is either pointing at Hogan's zipper or slightly past it.



    The second pic is the typical angle that people determine if they think a golfer is low and left or not. In my opinion, that angle at and just after impact determines if a golfer has a good pivot. It is also my opinion that a golfer with a good pivot gives the disguise that they are going low and left. When a golfer with a bad pivot tries doing low and left ends up looking like a mess.
    Posted:
  • dairicdairic Members  1098WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,098
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    This is my favourite footage of George Knudson because it shows off his swing beautifully. Thanks to tarifachris who uploads so many awesome videos on youtube.



    Posted:
  • TimanatorTimanator SFClone Members  3321WRX Points: 0Handicap: 12Posts: 3,321 Titanium Tees
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    CARDY wrote:






    Nicklaus once commented that Knudson had "a million dollar swing and a 10c putter" .. same thing with Hogan which is ironic








    Hogan was one of the best putter on tour until some time after the accident due to deteriorating left eye sight.
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  • JBOMB808JBOMB808 Lag and Leverage Members  444WRX Points: 1Posts: 444 Bunkers
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    Almost finished reading Knudson's book and it's funny how it totally contrasts with Hogan's PG and 5L. Kind of ironic. Two swings with remarkable similar moves yet completely different points of view. Knudson talks about misconceptions of the golf swing, and he touches on A LOT of points that Hogan's book as being 'forced' and unnecessary. I must say I actually prefer Knudson's view of a 'natural swing' and I see Hogan's as being more artificial in regards to actual positions. Hogan was probably getting down to the nitty gritty and the specifics, but the key point I noticed between their swing theories was 'balance/weight transfer' and bracing the back and forward swing. Quality stuff this 'Knudson swing theory'.
    Posted:
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  • hoganfan924hoganfan924 Members  5185WRX Points: 55Posts: 5,185 Titanium Tees
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    Knudson's approach in his book is very "connect the dots," and has very little in the way of mechanics in it. A highly simplified approach. More right brained/artistic view than Hogan's which was super analytical. Appeals to two different extremes of learning style.
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  • JBOMB808JBOMB808 Lag and Leverage Members  444WRX Points: 1Posts: 444 Bunkers
    Joined:  edited Aug 18, 2012 #25
    Excerpts from Knudson's book courtesy of John "Lag" Erickson...


    "I exchanged the idea of hitting the ball for swinging through it toward the target."



    "The flagpole helped me think of the swing as a pure, uninterrupted, and uninhibited move in which I would have no sensation of a hit. It was as if I were studying KARATE and I wanted to move THROUGH the target. Why should I let the ball stop the motion? The ball simply gets in the way of the motion. We swing as a unit, our hands, arms and club through the ball toward our target while focusing on the target. The ball will sit in the path of the clubhead if the ball is in the right location"



    We ignore the ball. As I say, it simply gets in the way of the motion we make. The motion connects the starting position to the finishing position



    "You cannot change effectively unless you have a clear image of what you are trying to do"

    "I noticed every player who struck the ball well maintained the same firmness in the left wrist at the completion of the swing as was established in the Starting Position. The wrists don't break down, as Tommy Bolt called flippy-wristed kids stuff.



    "I had no idea that to maintain firm wrists was to properly use my legs. I ignored footwork also because I was stuck on golf's number one misconception ... keep the head still. I later learned that the head has to go where the body carries it. The head has nothing to do with the golf swing, the head has no purpose in the swing"



    "It didn't take me long to realize that it was far better to let my legs lead the downswing. The only way to maintain the formation of the hands is the start the downswing with the legs. To keep the hands passive you must get the legs moving"



    "When we walk, we transfer weight from foot to foot. In the golf swing, same thing, we move away from the ball as weight transfers to our right side, then we move through the ball to our target transfering to out left side."



    "If we swing with our hands and arms alone, we swing with less than a full deck".



    "Footwork is so important, if we move our legs, the rest of our body moves. Harvey Penick told me, Son, if you are going to play this game for a living, you'd better learn how to use your legs."



    "Hogan was dead solid flat on his left foot at finish. How he achieved this was quite elementary, he took a very wide stance"



    "I learned that distance comes from the pace at which we transfer weight from the back foot to the front foot. The faster I do this the more clubhead speed I will generate."



    "I alter the plane to change curvature or ball flight by moving the feet. I realized an important factor concerning Hogan's placement of his left foot. He used the left foot to establish a stopping point in the swing. It set up a resistance in the left knee and hip that would stop him directly on target. This was a superb way of ensuring direction."



    "We move the mass, which is the hands the arms and club, by moving the body. Power is transmitted through the body to teh clubhead. We move the mass through weight transfer and rotation"



    "Centrifugal force is powerful. It pulls the golf club outward and downward as the player moves toward the target. CF generates a feeling.. we control the club by controlling the center. The inner controls the center."



    "The swing motion is a means of connecting a starting position to a finishing position. The key word is connecting. The weight is transfered while rotating the club AROUND the trunk of your body. The golf swing is a rotary motion"
    Posted:
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  • JBOMB808JBOMB808 Lag and Leverage Members  444WRX Points: 1Posts: 444 Bunkers
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    "Balance governs the swing motion. The better our balance, the better our chances are at producing a fluid swing motion. The essence of the natural golf swing, then, entails connecting a starting position to finishing position. Seen as a total motion, the swing is not complicated. There is no need to break the swing down into 1001 components. The swing is better understood as a sequence of movements."



    "Athletic Champions are in balance, it is the characteristics of elite athletes. When I speak of balance, I speak of complete balance of mind, body and emotion as well. A golf swing that is in balance must incorporate this comprehensive idea. A golfer who knows what he is trying to do will have mental balance. It isn't so much what we do, as what we attempt to do that counts."



    "The golfer who has a clear conception of the swing motion will be able to ward off the insults the game brings. The golfer who has procedures to follow won't be buffeted by emotion. Anxiety is due to lack of awareness. Knowledge breed confidence and calmness. The relaxed golfer can play the game and accept it's ups and downs"



    "My goal is to find a way to avoid forcing myself to do anything in the golf swing. I don't want to make my left arm straight, nor do I want to lock my head into a rigid position. I don't want to make things happen. I want to let things happen. I want things to happen naturally from a starting position to a finishing position."
    Posted:
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  • JBOMB808JBOMB808 Lag and Leverage Members  444WRX Points: 1Posts: 444 Bunkers
    Joined:  edited Aug 18, 2012 #27
    "Static balance is proper posture, proper weight distribution, proper grip, and correct alignment."



    "Dynamic Balanced golfer is centered and balanced while in motion. "A dynamic balance golfer moves efficiently as one aspect of the motion flows smoothly into the next"



    "There is a feeling of being ready, and impression of strength, like a boxer or tae-kwon-do expert. It seems you couldn't budge them, the are so stable. Like a cat ready to pounce, you can sense the energy coursing through their bodies. With the starting position we are setting you up to make an aggressive move, an athletic move, one full of purpose and direction."



    "The more vividly we can imagine the target, the more intensely will we react to it. The more clearly you can fix your destination in your mind, the more easily will you reach your objective. The target awareness takes your mind off the ball and puts it where it belongs, out there in space"



    "We must find a position for the left foot so that we will be standing on it at finish. We practice positioning the left foot so that it sets up a resistance in the left knee and hip."



    You must place the left foot outside the left shoulder so you will finish with your weight upon your left foot. Balance is the reason I advocate a wide stance. It allows you also to finish flat on the left foot. The idea made sense to me after I saw Ben Hogan, and I worked to achieve that position."



    "I had the habit of rolling over to the outside of my left foot. That habit was so ingrained that it took me a year and a half of practice until I could finish solidly on my left foot everytime"



    "We must accept one important factor. Every person had his own alignment that hits the ball straight.. for them. It won't vary much from standard, but it will deviate from geometric perfection."



    "I never get out of bed feeling the same from day to day. There is a physical variation in the human structure from day to day"



    "How many times have you seen a well meaning golfer jam a club across his friend's forearm and then try to shove it underneath his left elbow? It's an outrageous contortion that creates imbalance. Each individual finds what's square for him and plays from there."



    "Each individual finds what is square for them, and plays from there. Square to the target for most golfers is slightly open. Let's not fight it."



    "Ball Position, it stands to reason that we should find a location for the ball that will not vary from shot to shot."



    "The golf swing is one unified motion. Although it is convenient to divide it into backswing and downswing, I differ with the idea that these are two separate actions. They aren't, the unloading motion begins while we are still in the loading motion."



    'The purpose of the loading motion is to gather energy. We do so by transferring weight to the right foot, while rotating the body around the trunk. The feet carry the body. We keep the weight to the inside of the right foot while rotating"



    "We have completed the loading motion when approximately seventy five percent of our weight is on our right side. I say 75 percent because transferring 100 percent we would lose balance. Loading we rotate 90 degrees, unloading we rotate 180 degrees."



    "Centrifugal force will carry the club a good distance as far as it needs to go. You don't have to worry about reaching parallel. The loading motion is generally circular in shape. We simply rotate around our trunk"



    All parts are moving together, everything is moving in unison."
    Posted:
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  • JBOMB808JBOMB808 Lag and Leverage Members  444WRX Points: 1Posts: 444 Bunkers
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    "Passive hands is not meant to mean inactive hands. Our hands will be as active as we need them to be if we let them move along with the rest of our body"



    A golfer can do marvelous things with his feet. I believe in playing golf through your feet. Footwork is the VOLUNTARY action that initiates the motion."



    "On the backswing, feel the ground under your feet, as we shift weight under the governance of balance, our hands remain passive. The right elbow folds on the backswing as long as the hands are passive, with the head moving as it will."



    "We begin unloading the power we have developed while we are still completing the loading motion of the backswing. Your right arm straightens during unloading from it's folded position".



    The left elbow folds midway toward the finishing position, as the heaviness in the mass pulls you along and around to face the target".



    I want to stress the importance of evaluating your finishing form. Many Golfers pay some attention to their starting form but few have a good look at the finishing form. They think that because the ball has been struck, the swing is over."



    "It's not what you do that counts, it's what you attempt to do that counts."



    "Every golf swing you evaluate is an opportunity gained, every swing you don't is an opportunity lost".



    "Golf is full of misconceptions. This is the result of the majority of golf instruction ignores the aspect of motion"



    "Gene Sarazen once told me that when he swings, his thought is "I ride through the ball"



    "The head goes where the body takes it. The head moves as we displace weight while loading and unloading during the swing.

    Back and forth, up and down, wherever it wants. Also, the idea of straight back straight through is not geometrically possible because of the pitch of the plane, the club most travel on a circular route. By all means swing longer, but with your body and not your hands. A golfer reaching parallel at the top is not necessarily making an effective motion"



    "Concentrate on activating the lower body and power will surge from the legs through the hips, trunk, upper chest, shoulders, arms and out to the clubhead. This is the natural sequence you set into motion via footwork."



    "By all means swing longer, but with your body not your hands. The golfer who has reached parallel at the top of the backswing has not necessarily made an effective swing motion".
    Posted:
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  • JBOMB808JBOMB808 Lag and Leverage Members  444WRX Points: 1Posts: 444 Bunkers
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    [background=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0)]Someone on ABS posted a 1970 Golf Digest interview with George Knudson. [/background]



    [background=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0)]Regarding "natural motion"[/background]



    [background=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0)]"I studied Hogan." He says earnestly. "He has the finest swing I have ever seen put together ARTIFICIALLY."[/background]



    [background=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0)]Regarding strength needed to swing well:[/background]



    [background=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0)]He spent 2-3 hours a day lifting weights according to the article (lots of leg presses). "I've got to get stronger," he says, "because the only way I can compete with a guy like Jack Nicklaus is to make myself more efficient."[/background]



    [background=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0)]Regarding what he worked on:[/background]



    [background=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0)]"There are two things on which I concentrate," Knudson says. "The first is to keep my left wrist very FIRM, never hinging it. The second is to attain perfect balance by transferring the weight THROUGHOUT my downswing from the inside of my right heel to my left toes."[/background]
    Posted:
    Secret is in the dirt
  • ej002ej002 Unregistered  5129WRX Points: 3Posts: 5,129 Titanium Tees
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    dairic wrote:


    This is my favourite footage of George Knudson because it shows off his swing beautifully. Thanks to tarifachris who uploads so many awesome videos on youtube.



    [media=]






    Reminds me of Tiger's current action with that massive head drop
    Posted:
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  • MizunoJoeMizunoJoe Members  1000WRX Points: 1Posts: 1,000 Platinum Tees
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    ej002 wrote:

    dairic wrote:


    This is my favourite footage of George Knudson because it shows off his swing beautifully. Thanks to tarifachris who uploads so many awesome videos on youtube.



    [media=]






    Reminds me of Tiger's current action with that massive head drop




    It's really an upper body center of gravity drop which is a great way to give momentum to the club on the DS, provided you don't overdo it and bury the clubhead behind the ball.
    Posted:
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