Mother Flippin' Hogan

[dairic]

[quote name='Jobu' timestamp='1392262963' post='8657197']
left arm downcocks on backswing, upcocks at impact. the reason why the [b]right wrist does not c0ck[/b].
[/quote]

This is key I'm told.

[gabh]

Hogan's left wrist flips or begins to visually flip at impact or right after impact because the left wrist becomes fully uncocked. This time of full uncocking is where clubhead speed is at it's fastest. When you try to hold off the supination, the left wrist flips, which IMO Hogan did for fades or high shots. Balls are balata at that time, you gotta hold the face more for fades, unlike today you gotta make the face more left.

[gabh]

[quote name='Jobu' timestamp='1392262963' post='8657197']
left arm downcocks on backswing, upcocks at impact. the reason why the right wrist does not c0ck.
[/quote]

What do you mean Jobu? Left arm rotates right (CW) in backswing, them rotates left (CCW) at impact? Can you elaborate?

[dairic]

[quote name='gabh' timestamp='1392356193' post='8665351']
Hogan's left wrist flips or begins to visually flip at impact or right after impact because the left wrist becomes fully uncocked. This time of full uncocking is where clubhead speed is at it's fastest. When you try to hold off the supination, the left wrist flips, which IMO Hogan did for fades or high shots. Balls are balata at that time, you gotta hold the face more for fades, unlike today you gotta make the face more left.
[/quote]

Did he change his ball flight after his accident? It looks to me that after his accident his left arm is less supinated...left elbow pit pointing away from target.

[gabh]

[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1392356565' post='8665379']
[quote name='gabh' timestamp='1392356193' post='8665351']
Hogan's left wrist flips or begins to visually flip at impact or right after impact because the left wrist becomes fully uncocked. This time of full uncocking is where clubhead speed is at it's fastest. When you try to hold off the supination, the left wrist flips, which IMO Hogan did for fades or high shots. Balls are balata at that time, you gotta hold the face more for fades, unlike today you gotta make the face more left.
[/quote]

Did he change his ball flight after his accident? It looks to me that after his accident his left arm is less supinated...left elbow pit pointing away from target.
[/quote]

I think he didn't, but he's more confident in his fades post accident. I think what changed is his grip, from a strong to a truly weak one. This strong grip is why IMO he's holding off the shaft to keep it inline with his left arm. I think he's also more armsy, trying to get the arms and club DTL with his arms. He's also not supinating the forearm and wrist and hands. Look also at how his right wrist is so bent at impact and beyond.

With the weak grip, he can now use the "3 right hands" without worrying about the left side of the course when he's fading it. And this time he's not trying to hold off the shaft, arms, forearm and wrist supination. He's just trying not to make the back of left hand face left while he's using the 3 right hands and allowing the supination and flipping process to happen. I know sounds absurd hearing supination and flipping processes lumped we each other, but that's what I see and learned.

[dairic]

[quote name='gabh' timestamp='1392357297' post='8665429']
[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1392356565' post='8665379']
[quote name='gabh' timestamp='1392356193' post='8665351']
Hogan's left wrist flips or begins to visually flip at impact or right after impact because the left wrist becomes fully uncocked. This time of full uncocking is where clubhead speed is at it's fastest. When you try to hold off the supination, the left wrist flips, which IMO Hogan did for fades or high shots. Balls are balata at that time, you gotta hold the face more for fades, unlike today you gotta make the face more left.
[/quote]

Did he change his ball flight after his accident? It looks to me that after his accident his left arm is less supinated...left elbow pit pointing away from target.
[/quote]

I think he didn't, but he's more confident in his fades post accident. I think what changed is his grip, from a strong to a truly weak one. This strong grip is why IMO he's holding off the shaft to keep it inline with his left arm. I think he's also more armsy, trying to get the arms and club DTL with his arms. He's also not supinating the forearm and wrist and hands. Look also at how his right wrist is so bent at impact and beyond.

With the weak grip, he can now use the "3 right hands" without worrying about the left side of the course when he's fading it. And this time he's not trying to hold off the shaft, arms, forearm and wrist supination. He's just trying not to make the back of left hand face left while he's using the 3 right hands and allowing the supination and flipping process to happen. I know sounds absurd hearing supination and flipping processes lumped we each other, but that's what I see and learned.
[/quote]

Awesome.

[Jobu]

[quote name='gabh' timestamp='1392356399' post='8665371']
[quote name='Jobu' timestamp='1392262963' post='8657197']
left arm downcocks on backswing, upcocks at impact. the reason why the right wrist does not c0ck.
[/quote]

What do you mean Jobu? Left arm rotates right (CW) in backswing, them rotates left (CCW) at impact? Can you elaborate?
[/quote]

watch Dufner's waggle, except on the real swing the left wrist action changes on the through swing, as Hogan describes it.

[gabh]

[quote name='Jobu' timestamp='1392361029' post='8665581']
[quote name='gabh' timestamp='1392356399' post='8665371']
[quote name='Jobu' timestamp='1392262963' post='8657197']
left arm downcocks on backswing, upcocks at impact. the reason why the right wrist does not c0ck.
[/quote]

What do you mean Jobu? Left arm rotates right (CW) in backswing, them rotates left (CCW) at impact? Can you elaborate?
[/quote]

watch Dufner's waggle, except on the real swing the left wrist action changes on the through swing, as Hogan describes it.
[/quote]

Still not getting it Jobu. Having some slow days recently......can't visualize left arm down cocking in backswing and up cocking at impact. You mean left WRIST, specifically back of left wrist? Down cocking=straightening, upcocking=bending?

Re dufner's waggle, I just see the left wrist rotating back and forth. But yeah, left wrist is bending back or cupping or flipping thru impact on that waggle. On real swing you won't notice it much due to the pivot masking it, right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIllsYKXh84

[Hoganstriker]

That waggle.

MONEY!DOLLAH BILLS!CANYOU SAY CASH!

[fats]

[quote name='Jobu' timestamp='1392133156' post='8644023']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1392126762' post='8643373']
His left shoulder doesn't look any different between that power golf swing and the rest. Call it what you want, his if flipping his right wrist.
[/quote]

if there is an angle between the left arm and club shaft, once the swing starts going left, it appears as though the wrists flip but the club does not pass Hogan's center. Compare him to Ernie Els, who is a massive flipper. What we are really observing is the modern golfers steepening the shaft and releasing more down the target line. All down the line comparison would prove Hogan is not a flipper.
[/quote]

Good stuff, well thought out. I look at going left a different way: I call it going square to the turn.

That said......We now have fast face technology and low spin shafts and balls. The golf ball goes straighter now and defends against curves quite well. That indicates it can go DTL and hit a very straight and long shot these days. The game certainly evolved. The Golf Engineers have won the battle.

[Siteseer2]

[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1392356565' post='8665379']
[quote name='gabh' timestamp='1392356193' post='8665351']
Hogan's left wrist flips or begins to visually flip at impact or right after impact because the left wrist becomes fully uncocked. This time of full uncocking is where clubhead speed is at it's fastest. When you try to hold off the supination, the left wrist flips, which IMO Hogan did for fades or high shots. Balls are balata at that time, you gotta hold the face more for fades, unlike today you gotta make the face more left.
[/quote]

Did he change his ball flight after his accident? It looks to me that after his accident his left arm is less supinated...left elbow pit pointing away from target.
[/quote]
Hogan never flipped, or tried to hold on to anything... his right wrist went into full extension at p 8... there wasn't even a smidge of hold-on in that swing

[gabh]

[quote name='Siteseer2' timestamp='1393089592' post='8722388']
[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1392356565' post='8665379']
[quote name='gabh' timestamp='1392356193' post='8665351']
Hogan's left wrist flips or begins to visually flip at impact or right after impact because the left wrist becomes fully uncocked. This time of full uncocking is where clubhead speed is at it's fastest. When you try to hold off the supination, the left wrist flips, which IMO Hogan did for fades or high shots. Balls are balata at that time, you gotta hold the face more for fades, unlike today you gotta make the face more left.
[/quote]

Did he change his ball flight after his accident? It looks to me that after his accident his left arm is less supinated...left elbow pit pointing away from target.
[/quote]
Hogan never flipped, or tried to hold on to anything... his right wrist went into full extension at p 8... there wasn't even a smidge of hold-on in that swing
[/quote]

The confusion, I think, is the meaning of the word "flip". Personally, I think Hogan's left wrist action is a roll until around impact and then a flip. Not saying his left wrist is bent as in a flip at impact, but in certain shots (high shots) it certainly is a bit.

[tembolo1284]

I think the way he delivers and releases it gives him this look. He is at full extension a few feet past the ball. Where a guy like duval or azinger were at full extension with their right arms much later.

[Lake]

All these guys on Tour repeat...repeat...repeat their accum release sequence...right shoulder location...the "flippers" will just have their right shoulder further from ball and have their accums running out of length sooner than say a Hogan or Mahan & High Cappers will vary all of those things...when, how fast, elevation, height, etc...they are just less aware

[tembolo1284]

They repeat so well just from practice or is their technique better or a bit of both?

[Lake]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1393543981' post='8761178']
They repeat so well just from practice or is their technique better or a bit of both?
[/quote]

A ton of years playing competitively around other quality players along w/ good advice...desire/money/time/luck/etc

[fats]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1393543981' post='8761178']
They repeat so well just from practice or is their technique better or a bit of both?
[/quote]

Teaching tour players (better defined as helping) is THE easiest job a teacher will ever experience. Players have incredible talent, desire, feel and instincts. No doubt in my mind most tour teachers would make great butlers. ROFL

However there are some tour teachers I have the ultimate respect for : Butch, Charlie Epps, Chuck Cook, and Cameron McCormick (who teaches Jordan Speith.) Those guys are at the top of the heap and other tour teachers act as their Butlers. Cameron McCormick loves math, trackman you name it he know...yet he basically dodged geek details and helped with playing and how to handle himself. He did a super job and should be celebrated for his work.

That's it folks...4 guys who get it done. But remember these kids could play super in high school.

[Hoganstriker]

From my experience athletic talent exists at a far greater level than most average folks are aware of. Unless you have been around it, you cannot understand.
Hogan had talent.
Combine it with motivation and thats some serious stuff.

[Lake]

[quote name='fats' timestamp='1393561665' post='8762946']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1393543981' post='8761178']
They repeat so well just from practice or is their technique better or a bit of both?
[/quote]

Teaching tour players (better defined as helping) is THE easiest job a teacher will ever experience. Players have incredible talent, desire, feel and instincts. No doubt in my mind most tour teachers would make great butlers. ROFL
[/quote]

For that reason...imop...they refer to themselves more as coaches...they read the data from the machines...explain what the machine is saying..tell the player what it takes to change the numbers..and hope the roulette wheel lands on black on Thursday !

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1393438608' post='8750552']
I think the way he delivers and releases it gives him this look. He is at full extension a few feet past the ball. Where a guy like duval or azinger were at full extension with their right arms much later.
[/quote]

Yeah. Looking at a still image and placing labels on it....

I think you should watch the swing from different angles to truly judge when an accumulator is disrupted. If the shoulders are more open at caddie view and the release continues through and beyond p7 i dont see how you could look any other way.

Camera angles can make you see things that arent there too.

[fats]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1393563733' post='8763104']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1393438608' post='8750552']
I think the way he delivers and releases it gives him this look. He is at full extension a few feet past the ball. Where a guy like duval or azinger were at full extension with their right arms much later.
[/quote]

Yeah. Looking at a still image and placing labels on it....

I think you should watch the swing from different angles to truly judge when an accumulator is disrupted. If the shoulders are more open at caddie view and the release continues through and beyond p7 i dont see how you could look any other way.

Camera angles can make you see things that arent there too.
[/quote]

I do that also...my favorite spot is about 5 feet past the ball on an angle to see the position of both arms going through and how much torso turn was achieved. That angle gives my a clear view of possible impact faults and strengths.

[dairic]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1393438608' post='8750552']
I think the way he delivers and releases it gives him this look. He is at full extension a few feet past the ball. Where a guy like duval or azinger were at full extension with their right arms much later.
[/quote]

I would have thought that he got to full extension well past impact. If you compare BH and tiger here, BH hasn't run out of right arm yet while tiger is spent.

[attachment=2091188:image.jpg]

[dairic]

[quote name='fats' timestamp='1393564590' post='8763154']
[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1393563733' post='8763104']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1393438608' post='8750552']
I think the way he delivers and releases it gives him this look. He is at full extension a few feet past the ball. Where a guy like duval or azinger were at full extension with their right arms much later.
[/quote]

Yeah. Looking at a still image and placing labels on it....

I think you should watch the swing from different angles to truly judge when an accumulator is disrupted. If the shoulders are more open at caddie view and the release continues through and beyond p7 i dont see how you could look any other way.

Camera angles can make you see things that arent there too.
[/quote]

I do that also...my favorite spot is about 5 feet past the ball on an angle to see the position of both arms going through and how much torso turn was achieved. That angle gives my a clear view of possible impact faults and strengths.
[/quote]

Like this? My favourite angle as well.

[attachment=2091196:image.jpg][attachment=2091198:image.jpg]

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1393568965' post='8763340']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1393438608' post='8750552']
I think the way he delivers and releases it gives him this look. He is at full extension a few feet past the ball. Where a guy like duval or azinger were at full extension with their right arms much later.
[/quote]

I would have thought that he got to full extension well past impact. If you compare BH and tiger here, BH hasn't run out of right arm yet while tiger is spent.

[attachment=2091188:image.jpg]
[/quote]

And tiger also has run out of legs lol

[ej002]

[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1393569441' post='8763348']


Like this? My favourite angle as well.

[attachment=2091196:image.jpg][attachment=2091198:image.jpg]
[/quote]

Those pics are why I get so miffed at the "why the Hogan fascination" comments. That dude is Bad a** . . . That ball is NUKED and it probably was center cut.

And Tiger looks like a doofus

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1393569855' post='8763360']
[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1393568965' post='8763340']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1393438608' post='8750552']
I think the way he delivers and releases it gives him this look. He is at full extension a few feet past the ball. Where a guy like duval or azinger were at full extension with their right arms much later.
[/quote]

I would have thought that he got to full extension well past impact. If you compare BH and tiger here, BH hasn't run out of right arm yet while tiger is spent.

[attachment=2091188:image.jpg]
[/quote]

And tiger also has run out of legs lol
[/quote]

Hehe that's funny.

[fats]

[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1393569441' post='8763348']
[quote name='fats' timestamp='1393564590' post='8763154']
[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1393563733' post='8763104']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1393438608' post='8750552']
I think the way he delivers and releases it gives him this look. He is at full extension a few feet past the ball. Where a guy like duval or azinger were at full extension with their right arms much later.
[/quote]

Yeah. Looking at a still image and placing labels on it....

I think you should watch the swing from different angles to truly judge when an accumulator is disrupted. If the shoulders are more open at caddie view and the release continues through and beyond p7 i dont see how you could look any other way.

Camera angles can make you see things that arent there too.
[/quote]

I do that also...my favorite spot is about 5 feet past the ball on an angle to see the position of both arms going through and how much torso turn was achieved. That angle gives my a clear view of possible impact faults and strengths.
[/quote]

Like this? My favourite angle as well.

[attachment=2091196:image.jpg][attachment=2091198:image.jpg]
[/quote]

That sequence picture is fantastic. That should serve as the "Bible" for Hogan's swing on this site.

[fats]

[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1393569441' post='8763348']
[quote name='fats' timestamp='1393564590' post='8763154']
[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1393563733' post='8763104']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1393438608' post='8750552']
I think the way he delivers and releases it gives him this look. He is at full extension a few feet past the ball. Where a guy like duval or azinger were at full extension with their right arms much later.
[/quote]

Yeah. Looking at a still image and placing labels on it....

I think you should watch the swing from different angles to truly judge when an accumulator is disrupted. If the shoulders are more open at caddie view and the release continues through and beyond p7 i dont see how you could look any other way.

Camera angles can make you see things that arent there too.
[/quote]

I do that also...my favorite spot is about 5 feet past the ball on an angle to see the position of both arms going through and how much torso turn was achieved. That angle gives my a clear view of possible impact faults and strengths.
[/quote]

Like this? My favourite angle as well.

[attachment=2091196:image.jpg][attachment=2091198:image.jpg]
[/quote]

It's the angle I use to see what is going on impact and through which IMOP is critical with any type of Hogan swing type teaching.
By far the best sequence photo I've ever seen of him. Bravo !!

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1393570772' post='8763380']
[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1393569441' post='8763348']


Like this? My favourite angle as well.

[attachment=2091196:image.jpg][attachment=2091198:image.jpg]
[/quote]

Those pics are why I get so miffed at the "why the Hogan fascination" comments. That dude is Bad a** . . . That ball is NUKED and it probably was center cut.

And Tiger looks like a doofus
[/quote]

Oh cmon...why the hogan fascination? Look at the tiger, bh pics dairic posted a few posts ago. Tigers arm is way off his body...and he has way more extension. Same club, ball and tiger would have been well within his rights to ask him to hit from the ladies tee for the rest of the round.

And wow hogan looks really punchy with that right elbow.

[tembolo1284]

Fats what does it allow you to study?