New WRX Article: What really determines feel in an iron?

[TimV]

 

Tim,

 

These are forged undercut cavity backs.

 

 

Cool! I didn't even know those existed.

[ScooterMcTavish]

Nickent had a really nice club with one of their last forgings - the 4dx Pro which came (IMSC) with Nippon shafts as standard. Nice clubs.

Read the article and agree with it.

For me, I feel a difference in cast/forged, same way I feel a difference with a ball - the sound, feel, and look. If something sounds/feels/looks softer, well then my brain believes it is.

We all use multiple senses at the same time (Imagine if we didn't! While driving!), and our impression is created by the cumulative input we receive from all. Try drinking kool-aid or eating a "fruit" flavored candy when holding your nose shut. What does it taste like? Sugar and ascorbic acid. The "fruit" flavor comes from your nose that smalls grape, or cherry, or orange, and adds it to the sweet acidic tastes your tongue picks up.

I think clubs are the same, we see a muscleback stamped "forged", hear a nice click (not clack!) off the face, and get lots of feedback, including the sublime feeling of a pure sweet spot strike. That club "feels" soft.

Or, we see a dull cast Eye2, hear a "click" off the face, and feel very little feedback on off centre hits. Man, that club "feels" hard.

I've personally played both cast and forged, musclebacks and cavity backs, and can confidently state that I could not tell the difference between the two if blindfolded, wearing earplugs, and had dead centre hits with both. Fortunately, golf is not played with blindfolds, nor earplugs, so I can get that great soft feel off my forged vintage irons.

Personally, I think the design of the club has a greater impact on feel than anything else. A pured shot with a cast muscleback blade? It would likely feel as good as anything forged I would wager. Apparently Paul and I agree.

And let's not even discuss balls here.....I've hit some well-aged Star-Flites that make Hogan irons feel like K-Mart blue light specials.

Edit: In other words - you're all right! Let's get some ice cream.

[TimV]

I like Ice Cream!

[BrianL99]

[quote name='easyyy' timestamp='1435939172' post='11882240']
Brian, Tim and the rest... Please play nice and be respectful. I smell the tones that have a sharp edge and the subject adds concern that it could blow up. Feel is subjective and we are all intitled to our opinion.

I believe I can tell the difference and I will go to the grave with it. While I don't mind to debate it I do not like to be brow beaten.
[/quote]

I assume it's ok to respectfully disagree with the owner of the board?

If someone would post ... "I can surely feel the difference between a "forged blade" and a cast GI iron, I'd be the first to agree ... there's nothing like the feel of hitting an old Wilson Staff on the sweet spot.

I just think people get confused by attributing the difference to the method used to create the club. As for the original author having a horse in the race, he obviously does. I play PING irons. I have S55/I25 Combo set, a set of I20's and a set of Ansers. The I20's have the best "feel" in my opinion and anyone who tries to tell me that the PING Anser or the S55 feels as "soft" as my Dunlop Australian blades, I'd say he's nuts.

I just won't attribute it to the process.

[majic]

In my experience there are many factors influencing what we golfers call "feel". The most influential in today's tests is sound.
I may have told this story before. David Graham is an incredible designer and player. He always played leather grips. When Danny Edwards came out with the Royal Grip David tried them but told me he lost feel. He wanted me to cut off the butt cap of the rubber grip and then install the hard plastic butt caps we used in doing hand wrapped leather grips. He said only then could he "feel" the ball interacting with the club. Now that is feel.

[Oldplayer]

[quote name='TimV' timestamp='1435928834' post='11881322']
Brian,
The original author was a golf company man. A representative for Ping I believe. You are correct that I didn't disagree with him in a respectful way. My apology to him. That doesn't mean I have to agree with him or you.
Question: Why must I "[color=#282828]Name the 2 virtually identical clubs you've hit ... of which one was forged and one was cast" for my assertion to be correct? You are saying I have to hit 2 blade styles one cast and one forged? [u][b]Hard to find cast blades I think[/b][/u]. At least I'm not familiar with them. [b][u]Also not a lot of forged cavity backs although there are some[/u][/b]. I have a set. They also feel different from my forged blades. [u][b]Pretty sure there are zero forged undercut cavity backs[/b][/u]. This... "There is nothing inherently different in the reaction of the metal to the ball. Any perceived difference (as the author of the subject article pointed out) is related to other factors, primarily club design characteristics." is completely believable. Since for the most part cast and forged designs have differed greatly does it really matter? It's all of a piece. Historically at least the two methods have been used in dissimilar styles for the most part. So if you have two basically identical clubs made up one using the best modern casting materials and techniques and the other using a forged process could I tell the difference? Most likely not. BUT that's not a realistic comparison since the design [/color][color=#282828]characteristics[/color][color=#282828] DO DIFFER! That means this is entirely an exercise in semantics. Can I feel the difference between forged and cast metal? Probably not. Can I feel the difference between forged and cast golf clubs. Yes, I can. Maybe I'm wrong, but I certainly got the impression that the article's author wanted to make me believe that there is no difference in feel between cast golf clubs and forged golf clubs. That's simply not true. If his intention was not to mislead me to think that there is no difference in feel between today's high tech cast clubs and forged clubs then I sincerely apologize to him. Having gotten older I have developed a certain skepticism for anyone I believe is trying to sell me something. [/color][color=#282828] [/color]
[/quote]
With respect Tim I think you could be a little better educated in the variety of club heads available.
In recent years especially there have been plenty of undercut GI forged iron heads. Nike VRS forged, Callaway Diablo forged, Callaway Apex, Bridgestone DPC to name just a few. Mizuno has been making them for years. The tech is also now able to produce thinner faces for increased ballspeed in a forged head.
There have also been plenty of cast blades. Some Maxfli Aussie blades, Bridgestone ProSpec, Reid Lockart, Dynacraft, Henry Griffiths, slazenger etc. Not as common as forged by a long shot but there have been quite a few made over time.
As for forged cb's, they make up a huge % of the market. In Japan, where they almost exclusively prefer forged it would be 95% of the market.
I believe that the differences felt between clubs are much more to do with design, shaft, and type of metal used than the actual process of how that design was made.