Ball on Putting Green Moves

[bmaas03]

Replace, or play from new spot?

Question from the Iowa Junior Girls Championship yesterday in the group I was scorekeeping. We are not allowed to give any rulings - girls make their own decisions or call for rules official.

Two tiered green, player putted from lower tier, ball came to rest at the crest of the hill about 15 feet short of the hole. Player marked ball, waited for others to putt, then replaced ball and picked up mark.
As the player was going through her pre-shot routine (did not address ball) the ball began to roll back down the slope.
The rules committee determined that the ball was moved by the wind (not an outside agency), and therefore had to be played from the new spot (no penalty), 20 feet from where it began.

I understand the rule as it was enforced, but 1 question...if there was no wind, and the ball began to roll down the hill, where would it be played from? I can't find a specific ruling in the USGA.org website, although I might have looked right over it.
Is the ruling in that case that it is replaced at the nearest spot to which it will not roll? And could the player have made a case yesterday that the ball moved due to the hill, and not the wind?

[hoganfan924]

I believe the ruling was correct since the ball was successfully replaced before it moved. If you cannot replace the ball without it moving then you must place it on a spot no nearer the hole that will hold the ball. Of course, you cannot press the ball into the green to keep it from moving, that's a penalty.

[Joe Schmoe]

What would the ruling be if the player marks the ball, replaces the ball but leaves the mark there as well, then the ball begins to move, is it placed back at the mark? This would advocate the last part of the routine to be lifting the mark so that there is minimal time for the ball to roll.

[Joe Schmoe]

I hate to just bump a thread but I am curious about what if the marker is still there? Is the ball not considered placed since the mark is still there?

[ApexGrind]

I hate to just bump a thread but I am curious about what if the marker is still there? Is the ball not considered placed since the mark is still there?

I don't think the marker would have anything to do with it. The marker is only so that the ball can be replaced in an exact location (generally when it is to be lifted). The ruling on whether a ball should be replaced or played where it lies is never dependent on whether the original location can be determined or not? In this case the determination is based on what caused the ball to move once stationary. Marking a ball does not delineate placing it or not. My understanding, for example is that if you fail to mark your ball when lifting it you are penalized for not being able to determine the original position. Not the act of lifting or replacing it.

[hoganfan924]

I hate to just bump a thread but I am curious about what if the marker is still there? Is the ball not considered placed since the mark is still there?

 

I believe that is correct. The ball is not considered replaced until the mark is picked up.

 

Here's the USGA ruling on the original question from their website:

 

18-1/12 Ball Replaced and at Rest Is Thereafter Moved by Wind

 

 

Q. A player replaces his ball on the putting green and the ball is at rest. Before the player addresses the ball, a sudden gust of wind blows the ball farther from the hole. The player plays the ball from its new position. Is that correct?

 

A. Yes. Wind is not an outside agency — see Definition of “Outside Agency.†Accordingly, Rule 18-1 does not apply.

[hoganfan924]

I was mistaken. Found the correct ruling:

 

20-4/1 Ball Replaced on Putting Green But Ball-Marker Not Removed; Ball Then Moves

 

 

Q. A player replaces his ball on the putting green but does not remove his ball-marker. Subsequently the wind moves his ball to a new position. What is the ruling?

 

A. Under Rule 20-4, a ball is in play when it is replaced, whether or not the object used to mark its position has been removed. Consequently the ball must be played from the new position — see Decision 18-1/12.

[kklick]

Here is another question relating to the same topic. From the usga site.

 

Ball in Play Moved by Wind or Gravity

 

Q. A player replaces his ball on the putting green and the ball is at rest. Without addressing the ball the player steps away to read his putt.

 

The ball moves either due to the wind or the slope of the putting green. How should the player proceed?

 

A. The player must play his ball from the new position without penalty.

 

If the ball was moved into the hole then the player is deemed to have holed out with his previous stroke (Decision 20-3d/1).

 

Note: It is not relevant whether the player had removed his ball-marker before the ball was moved by the wind or gravity as the player's ball was in play when it was replaced (Rule 20-4).

[Lefty44]

So if the wind were to happen to blow it in the hole, it could count as though the putt didn't occur. What about the ruling that a player has 10 seconds after reaching the ball and after that the stroke doesn't count?

[lagordon70]

So if the wind were to happen to blow it in the hole, it could count as though the putt didn't occur. What about the ruling that a player has 10 seconds after reaching the ball and after that the stroke doesn't count?

 

I believe that the 10 second rule only applies to a ball on the edge of the hole. I think there's a decision for this one, also.

 

Theoretically if you mark the ball on a slope of the green above the hole, lying 1, and after marking and replacing, the wind comes up and blows the ball down the hill and into the cup, it's an ace. An unconventional ace, but an ace.

 

Has this ever been reported as happening?