Shortening my irons?

[Howard_Jones]

I have been on the range and course a few times with my 3/8" gap Ben Hogan Fort Worth Black irons now. I am hitting them as well as I've ever hit any irons. They seem to fit me perfectly now.

 

Howard, what do you recommend for 3 wood and driver shaft lengths, in relation to iron length? I'm now thinking that I would do well to shorten those a bit too.

 

You can use my chart for shaft weight progression who includes play lengths.

Thats my suggestions for play lengths to a player who fits "standard" length irons.

 

http://www.golfwrx.c...-1462518653.png

 

 

Howard, Could you briefly describe to me how I should be reading this chart. Thanks!

 

is a suggestion for a good stating point for fitting of shaft weight.

If you have a "favorite club" where shaft weight feels just right, find the UNCUT shaft wgt of that club, and then find it in that chart.

My suggestions for the rest of your bag is now in the same ROW up or down.

 

Depending on the shafts balance point (who vary on todays models), feel might fool us a bit on weight, but its not usual to see someone ends up more than 5 grams plus or minus (1 row to the left or right), but like always, there are exceptions, so consider it to be a "static fitting chart" to find a good starting point.

 

A chart like that can NEVER be "precise" and cover ALL shaft models, both because they are delivered with different balance point, but also a different UNCUT play length, AND Tolerances in production. Graphite shafts is often 3-4 grams off specs, so DONT read it as a "bible" of some sort, only as a quick reference to get the ball park we should look into.

 

If your club is found on shaft WGT, but has a different play length, you must convert that shaft wgt with 5 Grams pr inch.

Example - your 5W is your favorite, and has a 75 grams shaft uncut, but you play it 1 inch shorter than the chart has for a 5W

Then you should IGNORE wood number, but look on the correct PLAY LENGTH, because thats what this chart really is related to, head weight is #2 and expected to be set right, so its PLAY LENGTH vs UNCUT SHAFT WGT who is the important specs, Club labels is only "helpers" you shall ignore if play length is another than spec.

 

1 inch shorter = go up 5 grams as uncut shaft weight to get the same feel of wgt as your favorite club

 

For HYBRIDS is looks like a smooth extension from woods but its NOT.

Wood shafts used is 46 long uncut vs Hybrid shafts of only 41" so at the same uncut shaft wgt, the shortest shaft would have more grams pr inch and become higher as NET shaft wgt.

 

Example a 90 gram wood vs 90 gram hybrid, both for play in a 41" long club where we say NET cut shaft length becomes 40"

 

Wood shaft : 90 grams / 46 inch = 1.95 grams pr inch x 40.00" = 78.2 net cut shaft weight (neutral balance point)

Hybrid shaft: 90 grams / 41 inch = 2.19 grams pr inch x 40.00" = 87.8 net cut shaft weight (neutral balance point)

 

They looked like they was equal in weight, but NET cut weight becomes almost 10 grams higher on the HYBRID club.

So that chart for Hybrids is based on a idea who say "up to 30 grams down from Constant wgt irons to 41 long parallels in hybrids"

Again. Play length is the important specs, so if yours is shorter, ADD 5 grams pr inch to the chart.

 

For IRONS that chart should have been updated to cover ASCENDING WGT shafts like TT AMT who came a few years after i made that chart.

TT AMT is based on the same idea for total wgt progression ive been using, with the difference that TT uses 6 grams pr inch, and is in "the short end of the bag" while my chart is using 5 grams uncut shaft wgt pr inch, and is for the longest side of the bag.

 

That means you are looking at the same thing, since shaft wgt as grams is just like SW points. the shorter we go, the more grams we need for each SWP and the longer we go, the less number of grams we need to get to the same value.

 

its a "old theory" behind it all, but nobody bothered to make a chart like that before i did, and mine is based on actual clubs made to the same player, and this is the pattern i found on those i made more than 1 club for. Thats the basis of my chart, my own real life experience as club fitter, but it happens to fit like a glove with TT AMT shafts, but there are players who DONT fit this shaft progression, be aware of that.

 

Thats typical old school players who is used to playing steel shafted woods, so its hardly no shaft wgt progression in the bag they are used to play.

Anything below 75 grams is useless for them in a driver, and when they go as short at they like, often only 43" on a driver, a shaft in the 95-105 gram range is often whats work for them, so we often see a progression from driver to irons of only 25-30 grams on some of this players.

[Howard_Jones]

I have been on the range and course a few times with my 3/8" gap Ben Hogan Fort Worth Black irons now. I am hitting them as well as I've ever hit any irons. They seem to fit me perfectly now.

 

Howard, what do you recommend for 3 wood and driver shaft lengths, in relation to iron length? I'm now thinking that I would do well to shorten those a bit too.

 

You can use my chart for shaft weight progression who includes play lengths.

Thats my suggestions for play lengths to a player who fits "standard" length irons.

 

http://www.golfwrx.c...-1462518653.png

 

On the chart for shaft weight progression in the bag, the numbers is based on players where ive made more than 2 club for the same player, and when those clubs was plotted in a chart, there was a clear pattern of weight progression who turned out to be 5 grams uncut shaft weight for each inch shorter. (DG AMT is using 6 grams and came later to the marked).

 

Example for conversion

0.5" longer irons = 0.5 longer on all clubs, and when combined with 3/8" thats a 3/8" set who starts from the #5. (and gave a #9 of plus 0.5"). Il post the charts for all possible starting points 3-9 using included SW changes and weight needed to adjust further down here.

 

Back to 3/8" iron sets

Since we now have moved into 3/8" sets, we have to ask, "what is the standard play length" for a set 3/8"'?

That will most likely be a set where the #8 iron is the starting point (standard #8 iron length)

 

In general pay attention to what happen with the #8 and #9 iron, thats the clubs who change the most depending on starting point, so when we compare starting from the #3 iron vs the #8 iron, we get a difference to the #9 iron of 5/8" so the #3 iron as starting point fits the player who normally would use plus 5/8 to 0.75",

A player who fits plus 0.5" could use the #5 iron as starting point who gives a #9 iron of plus 0.5" or the 38 who give plus 3/8" for the #8

 

Here is a small chart with all relevant info for a fast and dirty 3/8" BUILD based on STD.

 

 

 

Spend some time to look on how the different Start club gives different sets with 1/8 steps, but also look on how SW value becomes.

Go for the one that seems the best over all, and you can always GO UP and use more head wgt / SW values than suggested.

 

Replying to this one because ive made a uppdate and changes photos to a chart who is easier to understand when looking at 3/8# options.

 

USE THIS LINK TO JUMP BACK TO THE NEW CHART

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1680558-shortening-my-irons/page__st__30#entry18252834

[wessnuts]

Great thread!! Thank you to all for the great discussion and especially to Howard for sharing his knowledge!

 

My irons are 6-PW because I can't handle the long irons. 1. Long irons are too damn heavy 2. I'm a picker/sweeper and the ball misses to the right.

 

Then with my shorter irons my misses are pulls to the left!!!

 

I was already excited to try some AMT shafts in my new irons (to address the above mentioned issues), now I'm even more excited to go with a 3/8" progression through my set to make my long irons shorter than "standard" (in hopes of making more flush contact).

 

Here is my plan:

 

Order my clubs 1" over standard with no grips installed (so I have some wiggle room to trim shaft)

 

I'll install a grip on my 8-iron (golf pride mcc +4 so there's less taper) and figure out what length feels comfortable.

 

Remove grip, cut 8 iron to length, re-grip.

 

Then add lead tape to get right feel for headweight.

 

Then cut shafts for rest of set using 3/8" increments.

 

Then add necessary lead tape to rest of clubs to get the .5 swingweight differential between clubs that's needed.

 

This seems more of a "Dummy's Guide" to MOI matching but from what I understand it should work.

 

Does is sound like I have it down or am I missing anything?

 

Any and all help is appreciated!

[Howard_Jones]

Great thread!! Thank you to all for the great discussion and especially to Howard for sharing his knowledge!

 

My irons are 6-PW because I can't handle the long irons. 1. Long irons are too damn heavy 2. I'm a picker/sweeper and the ball misses to the right.

 

Then with my shorter irons my misses are pulls to the left!!!

 

I was already excited to try some AMT shafts in my new irons (to address the above mentioned issues), now I'm even more excited to go with a 3/8" progression through my set to make my long irons shorter than "standard" (in hopes of making more flush contact).

 

Here is my plan:

 

Order my clubs 1" over standard with no grips installed (so I have some wiggle room to trim shaft)

 

I'll install a grip on my 8-iron (golf pride mcc +4 so there's less taper) and figure out what length feels comfortable.

 

Remove grip, cut 8 iron to length, re-grip.

 

Then add lead tape to get right feel for headweight.

 

Then cut shafts for rest of set using 3/8" increments.

 

Then add necessary lead tape to rest of clubs to get the .5 swingweight differential between clubs that's needed.

 

This seems more of a "Dummy's Guide" to MOI matching but from what I understand it should work.

 

Does is sound like I have it down or am I missing anything?

 

Any and all help is appreciated!

 

Since the last update in this tread ive launched a MILLIMETER APP to help out with pre calculations to figure out where to go.

3/8" is only one option, in the metric system we have TONS, so when we go 3/8" its the same as 9.5 mm, but we can go 9.0 or 8.5 or 8.0....

In the APP you can choose what ever play lengths and progression system you want, the rest is auto and print ready so you got return numbers as both SW values and grams needed to build it.

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1751610-metric-irons-excel-vba-app/