My Hackmotion results backswing changes

[Jbarretta]

I just bought a hack motion wrist to practice bowing the lead wrist  Normally I go radial at the top and it promotes a pull on the shaft and cupping in transition which opens the face.  With the bowed wrist move I can only get laid off at the top and then because I feel no leverage in the hands to pull or even do a arrow out of the quiver technique for width , my only option to accelerate the club is to pressure the lead foot and use the pivot to fling the arms into the downswing.  On video it's way more shallow at P6 the shaft is on my forearm instead of my bicep. 

 

The issue is on launch monitor my 7 iron swing speed dropped from 90mph to 81 mph since I feel like I'm not using the hands at all just the pivot to fling the club   

 

is this normal?  I also can't understand how tour pros get to shaft parallel with a bowed wrist 

Edited April 26, 2023 by Jbarretta

[KD1]

What's your before and after wrist conditions at impact? If flipping added speed it was still flipping. That said, NTC says bow/add flexion first move down but the wrist is in the process of extending for the rest of the downswing.

 

 

[PracticeSwinger]

Speed comes from the lead wrist extending in the hitting zone while still being flexed, so you need that flexing intent from the top, Cast A

[Jbarretta]

Ok i have managed to get most of the speed back.  Before i was swinging 89-90 mph with an 8 iron and it dropped to 81 when i was focusing on bowing the lead wrist during the backswing.  Today using hackmotion with my swing coach we got it back to 86-87 by changing my minds focus off the lead wrist and onto the trail wrist.  My swing thought was to extend the trail wrist going back and get into the "waiter holding a tray position"  The reason I've never focused on the trail wrist is I'm a lead arm dominant golfer. (Right handed golf lefty.)   After that initial backswing thought I just let my natural swing takeover.  My backswing was short of shaft parallel but no steeping move coming down.  Trackman and Hackmotion numbers were good Here are some screenshots from today with this intent.

 

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by Jbarretta

[MarkBoulder]

I recently bought a hackmotion too and my profile looks a little like yours. I reached out to them and they thought my swing is more like option C. I have a lot of radial at the top too. My first curve is the option C swing in Scott Cowx's models: 

Their in app guidance is based off of option A, so be careful if you are a C...

 

I'm trying to shift to A as it seems to be less reliant on timing and more consistent in the long run. The hard part I'm having is eliminating that extension to flexion back to extension backswing that we both have. Option A has a much more flat (relatively extension) or as they call it stable backswing. I've been trying Monte's "No turn cast" drill:

I also bought the course on his site and it's great. 

 

My swing better, contact is more consistently solid and I've been able to get some flat backswings like my second attached graph. However, I'm more likely to see a pattern like my third one. I don't see that return to extension in the backswing, but I still have too much flexion. 

 

I'm curious if anyone has any advice on how to consistently achieve that flat and stable backswing that seems to be a key to the Option A Tommy Fleetwood swing. 

 

 

[umamimami]

Just a blind guess: perhaps you’re holding on to the creation of the wrist angle concept too tightly / trying too hard to achieve flexion in backswing. By trying to achieve flexion you’re doing hand manipulation that prevents the gradual return to extension that comes from the angle dump and react. Looking at your third swing you’re flexing hard off the block similar to your first swing.

 

I’d focus on initiating the swing with radial movement and save the flexing part of the casting motion at the top not at the start. That’s very much in line with the swing option A and montes no turn cast

 

If you’re able to flex your hands near impact I’d guess that means the club head isn’t going as fast as it could be if your swing was “free-er” / less manipulated. I’d guess that flexing hard off the start is bringing the club into a place where it needs to manipulated for the swing to turn out okay direction-wise.

 

[MarkBoulder]

19 hours ago, umamimami said:

... trying too hard to achieve flexion in backswing. By trying to achieve flexion you’re doing hand manipulation that prevents the gradual return to extension that comes from the angle dump and react. Looking at your third swing you’re flexing hard off the block similar to your first swing.

 

I’d focus on initiating the swing with radial movement and save the flexing part of the casting motion at the top not at the start. That’s very much in line with the swing option A and montes no turn cast

 

 

Thanks for the thoughtful response! The weird thing is that I'm not trying to flex my lead wrist.  I'm actually trying to limit the flex...

I think you're onto something though. I rewatched No Turn Cast and as you said focused on radial. However, instead of the feel of cocking my lead wrist up I did the lead hand push down and trail hand pull up move. That really seemed help me keep my extension more stable. Lots more swings like my second one above. It seems that if I can get my radial done quicker then I can just keep my wrists set and focus on the 7 to 8 move.  I'm liking it!

[Habitual Flipper]

On 4/27/2023 at 10:34 PM, MarkBoulder said:

 

 

I'm curious if anyone has any advice on how to consistently achieve that flat and stable backswing that seems to be a key to the Option A Tommy Fleetwood swing. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe you're aware, but one thing to keep in mind is that the Y-axis on the graphs for wrist option A (Fleetwood, woods) normally shown online, are scaled way differently because they often include the arm rotation information. The "w" pattern to the top still exists slightly for most option A folk. Here is woods below (dotted line). Looks like he starts around 18ish extension, flex's to around 10 and then back to 18ish at the top. You're graph above would look a lot more stable if the y-axis was scaled similarly. 

 

[i*windows]

of those using the hack motion are you seeing any improvement in the quality of your strike?

[solson20]

4 hours ago, i*windows said:

of those using the hack motion are you seeing any improvement in the quality of your strike?

 

also curious about this..

[johnrobison]

Yes. I had a lot of radial deviation at P4 (I'm more flat wristed) and then not enough. I've been training in the feel of just the right amount and finding the center of the face far more consistently.

[iacas]

14 hours ago, i*windows said:

of those using the hack motion are you seeing any improvement in the quality of your strike?

 

Yes. For me and my students.

 

It's a low key great aid for putting, too.

[i*windows]

13 hours ago, iacas said:

 

Yes. For me and my students.

 

It's a low key great aid for putting, too.

thanks, I'm interested in the core version, but it only includes flexion and extension, not rotation and ulnar - which I guess you would really need to know what you are doing.

[johnrobison]

2 hours ago, i*windows said:

thanks, I'm interested in the core version, but it only includes flexion and extension, not rotation and ulnar - which I guess you would really need to know what you are doing.

Core/Plus weren't very helpful for me but Pro made a big difference

[MonteScheinblum]

Scott is a really smart guy. On pattern C, this is actively taught to hoards of golfers across the world because there is this myth of instant power.  I agree 100% with what he said.  It’s extremely hard to avoid extension when you down load.  He also said club golfers won’t be able to pivot to make this work.  It’s why I teach this out of golfers that are struggling.  The number of non elite golfers that make pattern C work has been zero in my observation.