Tipping help - heavy TX (Tour Blue, Tour Green, Recoil 125 UT)

[rbpwrx]

Hi all - fitting fairway/ hybrid/ 3i - left the shafts 1" long to allow trimming, tip or butt. Different profiles, and don't want to screw anything up. Details:

 

- Fairway = 915Fd @ 13.5* w/ Aldila Tour Green 85TX *HYBRID* shaft. This one performs GREAT. Hits it low and long and on a string. My instinct is to trim 1/2" from each end to keep the hinge point right where it is.

 

- Hybrid = TS2 @ 17* w/ Aldila Tour Blue 105TX hybrid - this one feels great, but hits it a little high. Normally I'd tip it to bring flight down, but the shaft is not my normal 'whiteboard' profile. I'm worried if I tip it, it'll bring the mid-hinge closer to the tip, and *may* launch it higher. Thoughts?
 

- DI = U500 @ 20* w/ Recoil 125 F5 Proto Utility - this is supposed to be a low-low shaft, and I'm assuming that means firm tip, and tipping will launch it lower. But right now it's a high, right, and soft for me. Instinct is to tip it, no handle trim. Anyone have experience with this shaft? (It might get swapped for a SteelFiber. Right now it's in second place behind MMT 125 TX HSx1.)

Thanks!

 

Edited May 17 by rbpwrx

[Stuart_G]

12 hours ago, rbpwrx said:

Hi all - fitting fairway/ hybrid/ 3i - left the shafts 1" long to allow trimming, tip or butt. Different profiles, and don't want to screw anything up. Details:

 

- Fairway = 915Fd @ 13.5* w/ Aldila Tour Green 85TX *HYBRID* shaft. This one performs GREAT. Hits it low and long and on a string. My instinct is to trim 1/2" from each end to keep the hinge point right where it is.

 

Assuming you're testing by choking up to account for the 1" extra playing length.

 

If it performs great - then I wouldn't tip any amount.   

 

The "hinge" point is meaningless - there really is no such thing and it's never a single point anyways.   That's just not how a shafts work in the swing.   How much dynamic loft is added is all about the total deflection at impact and the shape of the shaft as it curves.  But only if one has a late enough release such that there is still enough forward deflection in the shaft at impact.   If you want to visualize the effect - think of the shaft on a deflection board.

 

If you want the feel to stay the same, don't change the tipping.   Besides you're already playing a much lighter head than the shaft was designed for so it's already playing quite a bit stiffer than it was intended to be played at.

 

For all those particular shaft models, more tipping means stiffer and potentially a small decrease in launch and spin.   1/2" or 1" of tipping is typically only going to have a small effect on the launch and spin at best.  At worst it will change the feel in a way that can result in a more significant change in the swing and delivery - and that can go either way.   Only testing will tell you which way and how much.   Unfortunately with tipping there is no going back if you don't like the change.

 

So because of that, my recommendations are always going to be to choose the amount of tipping purely based on feel - not launch and spin.   Leave the launch and spin to the head and loft selection and tweaking - or some people can play around with some lead tape on the head to help manage it via swing weight changes.  And if it doesn't work it's easy to remove the lead tape.

Edited May 18 by Stuart_G

[rbpwrx]

On 5/18/2024 at 4:55 AM, Stuart_G said:

Assuming you're testing by choking up to account for the 1" extra playing length.

I've been doing both. Choking up to test the 3W at 42", or swinging full length at 43" to get a better sense of the handle. It's a dark art, as you know. Sometimes a 1/2" trim off one end or the other can affect feel dramatically, sometimes very little.

 

On 5/18/2024 at 4:55 AM, Stuart_G said:

If it performs great - then I wouldn't tip any amount.  

Yeah, but I'm more consistent on-course with a 42" fairway. At 43" it'll go almost as long as driver, but that also brings in the slight left smother. 1" less makes a big difference for me, especially off the grass, keeps me hitting it clean. So it's a haircut one end or t'other!

 

On 5/18/2024 at 4:55 AM, Stuart_G said:

The "hinge" point is meaningless - there really is no such thing and it's never a single point anyways.

Yes and no. Obviously it's not a single point. BUT. Especially on the Rogue Silver/ Tour Green line, there is a pretty distinct bend region in the upper mid. And I do think an inch or two closer to the tip or handle matters.

But I'm not too worried about this particular club. The Tour Green 85TX HY in 13.5 915Fd head works well. I think it'll be playable no matter how I trim it. 

 

On 5/18/2024 at 4:55 AM, Stuart_G said:

For all those particular shaft models, more tipping means stiffer and potentially a small decrease in launch and spin.   1/2" or 1" of tipping is typically only going to have a small effect on the launch and spin at best.

Okeydoke. Reassuring. My biggest concern was the 105TX in the hybrid. It's too high and too soft right now, but I will proceed slowly. 1/2" off the tip and retest.

I think the 125 Recoil is a fail anyway. Don't love the feel of the layup or materials.

Also, I notice I'm way more confident on-course pulling the 4i U500 w/ C-Taper 130 than the 3i U500 w/ MMT 125TX, even though I love that 3i. And it's not just the length!

 

There is just something much more crisp and immediate about the steel shaft that lets me control it - high/ low/ left/ right - that I don't feel with the graphite. The MMT wants me to swing it patient and measured like Homa, and then it goes high and straight.

I'm looking for a lighter graphite or steel-graphite shaft for the 3i that feels as tight and crisp as a CTaper, so I feel I can move it if needed. Is the answer just a CTaper 115X??

 

Edited May 22 by rbpwrx

[Howard_Jones]

3 hours ago, rbpwrx said:

I've been doing both. Choking up to test the 3W at 42", or swinging full length at 43" to get a better sense of the handle. It's a dark art, as you know. Sometimes a 1/2" trim off one end or the other can affect feel dramatically, sometimes very little.

 

Yeah, but I'm more consistent on-course with a 42" fairway. At 43" it'll go almost as long as driver, but that also brings in the slight left smother. 1" less makes a big difference for me, especially off the grass, keeps me hitting it clean. So it's a haircut one end or t'other!

 

Yes and no. Obviously it's not a single point. BUT. Especially on the Rogue Silver/ Tour Green line, there is a pretty distinct bend region in the upper mid. And I do think an inch or two closer to the tip or handle matters.

But I'm not too worried about this particular club. The Tour Green 85TX HY in 13.5 915Fd head works well. I think it'll be playable no matter how I trim it. 

 

Okeydoke. Reassuring. My biggest concern was the 105TX in the hybrid. It's too high and too soft right now, but I will proceed slowly. 1/2" off the tip and retest.

I think the 125 Recoil is a fail anyway. Don't love the feel of the layup or materials.

Also, I notice I'm way more confident on-course pulling the 4i U500 w/ C-Taper 130 than the 3i U500 w/ MMT 125TX, even though I love that 3i. And it's not just the length!

 

There is just something much more crisp and immediate about the steel shaft that lets me control it - high/ low/ left/ right - that I don't feel with the graphite. The MMT wants me to swing it patient and measured like Homa, and then it goes high and straight.

I'm looking for a lighter graphite or steel-graphite shaft for the 3i that feels as tight and crisp as a CTaper, so I feel I can move it if needed. Is the answer just a CTaper 115X??

 

Just a short input we have been into before (on WRX in general)
Tip trimming and the effect of it, is progressive, so its NOT like the first 1/2" and the next is "equal steps"
Illustrated, stage one should have been 5/8" as stage 1, and another 3/8" as stage 2, then the "steps stronger" will be more equal to each other.

[rbpwrx]

23 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

Just a short input we have been into before (on WRX in general)
Tip trimming and the effect of it, is progressive, so its NOT like the first 1/2" and the next is "equal steps"
Illustrated, stage one should have been 5/8" as stage 1, and another 3/8" as stage 2, then the "steps stronger" will be more equal to each other.

 

Interesting. Is there a link to a more in-depth discussion? If not, will stage 3 also be 3/8" etc? And does this apply to steel/irons similarly to graphite/woods? Thanks!

[Howard_Jones]

1 hour ago, rbpwrx said:

 

Interesting. Is there a link to a more in-depth discussion? If not, will stage 3 also be 3/8" etc? And does this apply to steel/irons similarly to graphite/woods? Thanks!

No, im not aware of any numbers or testing done, but most agree that the first 4/8" dont make much of a difference, while the next 4/8 does, so they are not equal as change, and thats why i split it up like this to illustrate it, Many have done the mistake of testing 4/8", just to find next to nothing as change, so they pull and take another 4/8, and then its "overdone" in way to many cases. What they was looking for was probably what you get at 5 to 6/8"

[Stuart_G]

15 hours ago, rbpwrx said:

 

Interesting. Is there a link to a more in-depth discussion?

 

Tom Wishon discussed this phenomenon quite a bit when he was active here.  You might find something if you do a search in the forum.   But I think the short story is that it's largely derived from anecdotal experiences of his and others.