Driver Reccomendations Detailed!!!

Cameron Circle T · December 28, 2005

Looking for a driver must read!!!

Ok here is just a post I thought I'd make as I know it's holiday season and ppl are looking to change clubs in the off season etc. This post is just my opinion and is based on my and others knowledge of the technical aspects of many of the new drivers released onto the market today.

I have been reading around the forum and have seen many debates over what driver should i get and what loft should i get and oh the launch monitor said this or that etc. The following is based on my experience both in the golf technology business (i.e. shafts, heads, etc.) as well as actual practical playing experience.

The rage these days is to go to an indoor place such as Edwin Watts or your local shop or whatever the case may be and to get fitted on a launch monitor. This is a great proposition for the avg. golfer who doesnt have access to tour vans or the ability to fly out to a company's facility and go hit on their range (such as pings range which actually has sensors in the ground itself). The technology has finally been brough out to the masses and its great that ppl are capitalizing on it and going to get fit. I have always been a big proponent of custom fit equipment and making sure your clubs fit you and not just buying some off the rack driver in a random flex etc. However, through experimentation and dealing with these launch monitors i have found that ppl should not be so quick to trust the reccomendations made by ppl who fit them on indoor launch monitors or even outdoor ones to some extent.

First of all, I find that many of the ppl that do these fittings arent 100% on their stuff and dont know all the available options for shafts or heads etc. However even assuming these ppl do know all of that I still find problems with this type of fitting especially indoors. I know its nice to hear the numbers and have some psycological reassurance; however, here is my qualm: Upon seeing that the Ping demo van was going to be in town at a local Edwin Watts I wanted to stop by and say hi to the long time rep who has been a family friends for 7 or so yrs. While there i was curious to talk to his fellow fitters and get fit for a driver on one of these indoor launch monitors. Well bc of my angle of attack on a driver...very steep i produce a very high ball flight but not nearly as much spin as most ppl do on the ball. Bc of this on an indoor launch monitor one would assume that i wouldnt necessarily hit it high however i hit it tremendously high. Well my spin is about 300-350 rpms lower than is reccomended for someone with my swingspeed (about 120). my launch angle is relatively good though. Bc we were inside they were trying to figure out how to bring my ball spin up while maintaining launch angle. Well to make a long story short this indoor fitting contradicted every outdoor fitting Ive ever had bc they werent able to see that bc of my angle of attack spin wasnt the only thing that got the ball airborn for me. Even outdoors unless your being fit by the best they react to what they see on their computer screen and dont know what to do when something is as seemingly paradoxical as my high straight to maybe baby fade ball flight is with as little spin as i put on a driver and how i can play such a short driver and produce as much flex in the shaft as i do etc. So you have to be careful that these people arent just reacting to the by the book analysis which unfortunately is all you can get indoors bc you cant see ball path etc. So that is my problem with these launch monitors unless being fitted by the very best (i.e. the guys in pings or any other OEM's tour Dept).

Another thing to consider is your game. I dont just mean your handicap either bc that doesnt reflect necessarily the certain aspect of your game we are talking about. For example when considering a driver consider the steepness of your swing ball spin etc. Consider the shot pattern you tend to hit and the desired shot pattern and consider your bad shots as well. As much as we may not like em they do happen. if you have a larger shot dispersion and a hard time getting the ball to stay straight rather than fade dont buy a bore through driver with the same flex you would in a non bore or same torque bc its going to play differently. That is definately stuff that needs to be taken into consideration but as well consider the OEM your going with.

Talk to ppl about the drivers and always have each driver measured b4 you try it so you know what your actually trying. Though a bad example bc my driver is pre production proto it says its an 8* on the bottom when in fact it is a 9.8*. So be careful what your trying so as not to try an "8*" and go buy another driver thinking its the same when the first one speced out like mine way higher than listed and the one you buy is actually a 7.7* or something. Another thing is talk to the ppl that play it or that know bout the club about the dynamic loft or what it will actually play like bc of the design of the head etc. I know talking to Ping the actual loft and what itd play to bc of weighting etc was way off for me. You always want to know what your getting into as I say.

Consider your course conditions- you may play a course that tends to be very dry so the fly high and drop and stop ball flight may cost you 10 yds over a driver that seemingly would be detrimental bc you wont fly it quite as far but bc you play in arid conditions your ball rolls more than most. If you play in wet conditions dont go try a driver that in dry conditions runs 35 yds. and doesnt have a high ball flight bc once you get out onto your usual conditions youll lose all that roll. Consider your shot shape as said b4. Especially for ppl who dont hit their desired shot shape try to find a driver that produces not just the desired shot bc some better pros hit a fade but find the shot shape that is most repeatable and most accurate for you. Whether this means lead tape on the toe or heal or a closed or open driver etc. figure that out consider this aspect.

Consider your shafts etc. I know for me control wasnt always my strong suit so one day it hit me to get my drivers all ordered at 43.75" rather than std. length. Yes i lost 30 ish yds (driving avg went from near 340ish to bout 310) however i went from hitting 50% fairways to pretty much hitting it where i looked. Consider control not just distance when deciding what driver you want to go wtih as well as head look at shaft length, torque flex point etc. Consider your shot dispersion if you hit it all over id say go with a club thats longer toe to heel rather than deep face bc itll provide you with more hitting surface to miss it on and still get it going in the right direction. As well look at what the club will do. As i stated in another thread a bore through driver will cause a higher effective kick point and lower effective torque. While for a good player this will drop the ball flight and give more workability and control if you tend to miss it a lot this will be detrimental.

Also consider the technology in these new drivers- dont fall for the old this goes longer bc we say so. Many of these companies test their clubs at 120mph swing speeds which will produce a much diff effect than a 90 mph ss. Consider the driver whether its designed for lower or higher spin rate as this will effect which loft and shaft you may want in the driver bc of the amt of spin produced changing ball flights.

Consider your desires- if you are borderline on a shaft flex say btwn r and s or s and x consider if you hit it relatively straight and control it well and you want distance or if you hit it really long but want to keep it in the short stuff more. If you want more distance bc you have no control issues go to the weaker side on flex but if you feel you need that extra bit of control and distance isnt really the biggest factor then go to the stiffer.

And finally as stupid as this sounds to end it with TEE HEIGHT!!! I see so many avg. weekend ams playing these new technology drivers with short or even long tees that arent necessarily high enough out of the ground. Some ppl say have the equator of the ball at the top of the club head some say slightly more. I say determine it based on your swing. If you swing up maybe tee it a little lower you swing more around yourself and shallower tee it up a little more. Dont go on some generalization see what works and consider your swing when deciding how high to tee it but Id say you need to tee it very high with these new large drivers. I know personally i swing up but i like the really high penetrating ball flight bc i can fly it over trees and cut corners and get it to land softer when i need to and not roll etc so i play it higher than a person with my swing plane might maybe 3/4 of the ball above topline instead of half of it.

So go out there and try the drivers and see what feels right, tee it high, make sure to not just go by the book on launch monitors and take into account swing plane etc, dont make an indoor fitting the be all and end all of driver decision and best of all ask ppl in the know about the clubs. Good luck with the upcoming season after you guys up north can get back out and start playing again. Keep this stuff in mind and youll do alright and youll enjoy longer, straigher, better drives.

P.S. sorry for the long post just trying to help

Thanks,

Adam

Cameron Circle T · December 28, 2005

Also if anyone finds this helpful and would like this done for any other clubs in the bag i can put that up to and maybe the mods can stick it or something if youd like. Just lemme know what yall need.

Thanks,

Adam

TML · December 28, 2005

Cameron,

thanks....great post. Keep 'em coming. Would love more of your insight on other clubs in the bag and misc.

TAPNPAR · December 28, 2005

Hey Cameron,

I am looking for some help on a different topic, how closed is the R7 425 compared to the original R7 and how open is the R7 TP and how does this compare to the orginal TP. Thanks.

TML · December 28, 2005

What is your take on the new Ping clubs? The G5 irons, I5 irons and the G5 hybrid. I placed an order with flighted rifles 5.5 and a combo G5(4-6)/I5(7-SW) set.

millercg · December 28, 2005

I would agree with the indoor simulators vs hitting outside. I find this is especially true with drivers. I don't think the indoor simulators at most stores gets a good read on sidespin. Made the mistake of buying an Adams Redline RPM driver last year. It performed great on the indoor simulator. I mean I hit 15 of 15 straight down the center of the fairways with this thing. Compared to the other drivers I hit that day, on that simulator, the Adams won hands down. Out on the course though, I found it performed much different. Needless to say, the Adams didn't stay in the bag very long.

Cameron Circle T · December 28, 2005

As for one of the above posts I cant really speak to the std. R7's difference bc of the fact that i play open faced drivers and refuse to hit anything that isnt open faced. I havent ever really payed much attn to the retail version of the R7 or R7 425 as it was never a consideration. The R7 quad and R7 425 TP to me look very very similar from the top. They are both in my eyes from setup pretty much dead square to a half a degree open as well the depth of the face is very similar. Having only looked at the R7 std. indoors i can say that it is severely closed compared to the TP as is the R7 425 retail version.

As for the I5's i find them to be a good solid moderate iron. They play somehwat like the I3+ in my opinion which is a little more offset and forgiving than the I3+ blade. The g2/g5 irons i have looked at and hit into a net once or twice but were never really a consideration as i play the S59. They are a good forgiving iron with pletny of offset and a large sweetspot for those mishits. I think your decision on mixing them is a good idea in that the longer irons will be more forgiving and while the shorter irons are still more forgiving than say the S59 they do provide some workability and control and ease of use. The best 3 irons ping has made for lower handicappers imo are the I3 blade, I3+ blade, and the king of them all the S59 series (whether you prefer tour or regular look is just preference). As for the G5 hybrid its not my favorite, even tho i can easily get them i just dont want to play it. I have a problem with hybrids in the first place bc i hit such a high ball and this is further exagerated by these utility clubs, so i still play the S59 2 iron as you can see in my sig. The hybrid doesnt suit my liking look wise either. However i will say that its a very quality well made well thought out club that does what its supposed to its just for me there is no purpose and it only complicates things by trying to hit it. For the avg. player who doesnt want to hit long irons id definately consider pings g5 hybrid. For the slightly better playing wanting a more traditional look with ease of play try the G2 HL long iron. I have one in a strong 2 iron and its the only thing that ive found out there other than maybe the 503i, 503h, and some of the merely oversize irons that could ever have a chance of finding its way into my bag.

As for the launch monitors yes side spin is a factor however i have seen some very good ones that get almost every spec on the ball spin however as the point i was trying to make above is that in some players game there are anomalies and paradoxes that merely cant be solved by going by just the numbers especially indoors. There is no way that you can pick up something such as the anomaly with my driver flight if i put up a wall around the person sitting at the launch monitor bc it is true numbers dont lie but they can be misleading, and they dont necessarily take into account everything. This problem is made even worse when your indoors bc the person fitting doesnt even have a fighting chance to take into account these odd occurences in the ballflight of a player.

Thanks for the replies fellas, ill be continuing this "series" of posts with irons, putters, balls, gloves and whatever else anyone wants. I spend way to much time dealing with all of these things so i may as well share the knowledge ive accumulated over the years with a good bunch of members. Lemme know if theres anything specific youd like me to address.

Thanks,

Adam