Swingweighting

[justinguy15]

Butt end weight needed

I am assembling my first set of clubs and they are a 1/2 over standard length using normal MX-23 heads. I am needing to add weight to the butt end to get the swingweight to my liking. What is the best way to add weight to the butt end of the shaft.

[thewitt]

Don't add weight to the butt to change the swingweight - that's not going to impact flex or the resulting feel of the clubhead in the swing.

 

If you want to back-weight to add static weight to the club, that's fine, but don't do it to match swingweight - that's pointless.

 

Adding weight to the butt can easily be done by jamming a cork down inside the shaft, then adding the weight, then adding another cork. Back in the old days before the Balance Certified or Tour Lock systems, this was the classic way to back-weight clubs.

 

Back-weights in full swing clubs are generally in the 30-50g range, putters in the 50-100g range.

 

-t

[justinguy15]

I have to add weight to the back to bring my swingweight from E1 to D3. I don't know why it is so hard to get the swingweight right. I though I was just going to add tip weights. This is definalty a learning experience.

[justinguy15]

Also how do I add static weight to the club. Tip weight? That doesn't make sense.

[justinguy15]

Don't add weight to the butt to change the swingweight - that's not going to impact flex or the resulting feel of the clubhead in the swing.

 

If you want to back-weight to add static weight to the club, that's fine, but don't do it to match swingweight - that's pointless.

 

Adding weight to the butt can easily be done by jamming a cork down inside the shaft, then adding the weight, then adding another cork. Back in the old days before the Balance Certified or Tour Lock systems, this was the classic way to back-weight clubs.

 

Back-weights in full swing clubs are generally in the 30-50g range, putters in the 50-100g range.

 

-t

 

Your posts confuses me. To get my swingweights to match throughout my set how else am I suppose to get the swingweight rights if to get it right it needs to have more weight toward the butt end? You said add weight to the back for statics weighting but by doing that my swingweights will be right.

[thewitt]

Swingweight is not a weight, it a weight relationship between the parts that you used and the length you built your clubs.

 

If you build an 8i with a 277g head, a 130g, 41" shaft at a final club length of 36 1/2" and a 52g grip, the swingweight will be approximately D1. That's just what it is. There is no need to change it to anything else, that's what it is.

 

If you build that same club with the same parts at 37 1/2", the swingweight will be approximately D8. Again, that's just what it is. There is no need to change it - you will not change the flex of the shaft or the "head feel" by lowering the swingweight of the second club to D1 with backweight.

 

If you did actually lower the swingweight to D1 of the second club, you would have to add roughly 35g to the butt end of the club - increasing the static weight of the club in the process. The total club would FEEL HEAVIER than the initial club, even though the swingweight would be lower.

 

Even with the lower swingweight, the "head feel" and shaft flex would not change. Your feel of the club would only be different because of the higher total weight of the club - it would have NOTHING to do with the fact that swingweight came down - that was simply a side effect of the added butt weight.

 

Swingweight is a CLUB MATCHING number, NOT a head feel number. In the second example, you would build all of the clubs at +1 inch to match the same swingweight at D8. Swingweight should be adjusted by adding weight to the head, NOT by changing weight in the butt. Swingweight should in fact be measured with the same, split grip on each club during assembly.

 

When you add weight to the head, you soften the shaft and this fine tunes the flex of each shaft - making them feel the same one club to another.

 

When you add weight to the butt, you do not change the feel of the clubhead or change shaft flex - you simply increase the overall weight of the club with additional weight under the hands.

 

-t

[MR MIZUN0]

thewitt I believe made this..............THANKS!!

 

just plug in your numbers to get the swingweight.

[justinguy15]

Swingweight is not a weight, it a weight relationship between the parts that you used and the length you built your clubs.

 

If you build an 8i with a 277g head, a 130g, 41" shaft at a final club length of 36 1/2" and a 52g grip, the swingweight will be approximately D1. That's just what it is. There is no need to change it to anything else, that's what it is.

 

If you build that same club with the same parts at 37 1/2", the swingweight will be approximately D8. Again, that's just what it is. There is no need to change it - you will not change the flex of the shaft or the "head feel" by lowering the swingweight of the second club to D1 with backweight.

 

If you did actually lower the swingweight to D1 of the second club, you would have to add roughly 35g to the butt end of the club - increasing the static weight of the club in the process. The total club would FEEL HEAVIER than the initial club, even though the swingweight would be lower.

 

Even with the lower swingweight, the "head feel" and shaft flex would not change. Your feel of the club would only be different because of the higher total weight of the club - it would have NOTHING to do with the fact that swingweight came down - that was simply a side effect of the added butt weight.

 

Swingweight is a CLUB MATCHING number, NOT a head feel number. In the second example, you would build all of the clubs at +1 inch to match the same swingweight at D8. Swingweight should be adjusted by adding weight to the head, NOT by changing weight in the butt. Swingweight should in fact be measured with the same, split grip on each club during assembly.

 

When you add weight to the head, you soften the shaft and this fine tunes the flex of each shaft - making them feel the same one club to another.

 

When you add weight to the butt, you do not change the feel of the clubhead or change shaft flex - you simply increase the overall weight of the club with additional weight under the hands.

 

-t

 

If this is all true then why do people swingweight clubs at all if it has no bearing on the FEEL of the club? Sorry I am not trying to be an idiot, I am just trying to firmly grasp the reason why people will swingweight all their clubs the same.

 

What I am trying to do is make a set of clubs using three different types of shaft to make my own "Flighted Set". 4 and 5 iron are the new dynamic gold high launch, 6 and 7 are dynamic gold lite, and 8,9, PW are dynamic gold SL. If I put these clubs together without adding any weights my swingweight number will be all over the place. I also don't know if I would even notice a huge difference but I read all over the place how important swingweight matching your set so the all "FEEL " the same is so I thought I would try.

[OrangeBlood]

1 swingweight point= 6 grams

 

This data is in numerous articles on the subject. I understand that cutting a shaft lowers swingweight because the head is closer to the grip.....the further the weight is away from the grip the heavier the club will feel. Isn't this pretty much how it works?

[themouth1]

Swingweight is not a weight, it a weight relationship between the parts that you used and the length you built your clubs.

 

If you build an 8i with a 277g head, a 130g, 41" shaft at a final club length of 36 1/2" and a 52g grip, the swingweight will be approximately D1. That's just what it is. There is no need to change it to anything else, that's what it is.

 

If you build that same club with the same parts at 37 1/2", the swingweight will be approximately D8. Again, that's just what it is. There is no need to change it - you will not change the flex of the shaft or the "head feel" by lowering the swingweight of the second club to D1 with backweight.

 

If you did actually lower the swingweight to D1 of the second club, you would have to add roughly 35g to the butt end of the club - increasing the static weight of the club in the process. The total club would FEEL HEAVIER than the initial club, even though the swingweight would be lower.

 

Even with the lower swingweight, the "head feel" and shaft flex would not change. Your feel of the club would only be different because of the higher total weight of the club - it would have NOTHING to do with the fact that swingweight came down - that was simply a side effect of the added butt weight.

 

Swingweight is a CLUB MATCHING number, NOT a head feel number. In the second example, you would build all of the clubs at +1 inch to match the same swingweight at D8. Swingweight should be adjusted by adding weight to the head, NOT by changing weight in the butt. Swingweight should in fact be measured with the same, split grip on each club during assembly.

 

When you add weight to the head, you soften the shaft and this fine tunes the flex of each shaft - making them feel the same one club to another.

 

When you add weight to the butt, you do not change the feel of the clubhead or change shaft flex - you simply increase the overall weight of the club with additional weight under the hands.

 

-t

 

If this is all true then why do people swingweight clubs at all if it has no bearing on the FEEL of the club? Sorry I am not trying to be an idiot, I am just trying to firmly grasp the reason why people will swingweight all their clubs the same.

 

What I am trying to do is make a set of clubs using three different types of shaft to make my own "Flighted Set". 4 and 5 iron are the new dynamic gold high launch, 6 and 7 are dynamic gold lite, and 8,9, PW are dynamic gold SL. If I put these clubs together without adding any weights my swingweight number will be all over the place. I also don't know if I would even notice a huge difference but I read all over the place how important swingweight matching your set so the all "FEEL " the same is so I thought I would try.

 

 

To get them to match, you will have to build them all to the higher weight. There is no way to get them all to SW exactly otherwise. You would need lighter heads or play them at a shorter length. This is the reason OEMS have lighter and heavier heads. You can add SW but there is no real way to take it off. Weight under the grip does nothing but fool the SW machine. The most important thing with SWs is that they are all about the same so the clubs all feel the same...

[thewitt]

The swingweight scale was developed when shafts were hickory and were set for flex on a flex board, then clubs were fine tuned for flex and FEEL on the swingweight scale by adding lead to each head.

 

Today's components are much more closely matched for weight and flex than the original hickory shafts and cast iron heads - but the principle still applies.

 

Swingweight is used to match the feel of one club to another WHEN THE PARTS ARE MATCHED as well. That means when the heads are 7 grams apart in weight, the shafts are trimmed to be 1/2" apart in length, and the shafts are all the same - your swingweights will match.

 

Since heads are rarely 7g apart in weight, we add weight to each head in a set to match the swingweight one club to another - WITHIN THE SAME set of components.

 

If you are building a flighted set with different weight and model shafts in your long, mid and short irons, your swingweights WILL be different - and that's OK.

 

Match the swingweights in the clubs made from like components, not from unlike components.

 

If you are trying to match the feel from the long irons to the mid irons, you may have to do much more work than simply matching swingweights. In fact adding weight to the heads to match swingweights when your shafts are lighter in one set than another will SOFTEN the shaft flex of those clubs built with ligher shafts. If this is your goal that's fine, but for every 10g you add to the head, you soften the shaft by 1/2 a flex.

 

If I were building your set, this is what I would do.

 

Build each "subset" as a set in it's own right, treating them separately from each other. Match the swingweight within each subset one club to another.

 

Go play them.

 

If you feel that one set is "too light" and you simply cannot go from one iron to another across the different style, add weight to the butt to increase the static weight. You can search on these forums and others for many different ways to add weight in the butt of your clubs. Concentrating on bringing up the static weight first when you have lighter and heavier clubs in a "set" and take it from there.

 

No one builds "stock" clubs like you are suggesting, so there is going to be virtually no standards to go by.

 

Have fun with it. This is what custom clubmaking allows you to do that you cannot buy off the shelf.

 

-t

[justinguy15]

And it all comes together. I am sorry I have been such a pain but I finally get it. Thank You So much now I am excited.

[thewitt]

No need to apologize. It can be hard to explain clearly and I know that from trying many different methods to do so.

 

The best testing comes from self testing, so I encourage you to experiment.

 

That is the beauty of being able to build your own clubs after all.

 

-t