R7 425

[abc123tyler]

Who else thinks TM is screwing the average joe

Releasing the 425 and hyping it now right before a 460 just to make the extra sales boost?...

I think there are a lot of weekend players who want the extra forgiveness of the larger head R7 and would have bought it instead of the 425.

myself... don't really care since I prefer other drivers. :cheesy:


not to mention the whole R7 extra distance bs... lower lofts = lol.

[cjdrcc]

Agreed. Taylor Made is no longer producing a new product, it seems that they are relying on more on their name than innovations. I am starting to get a little frustrated with the manufacturers doing this, especially with a product that is sucessful like the r7 and r5 already on the market.

[maguy1970]

I will stick up for TM here, as I love their stuff...

 

The R7 irons must be the ones you are referring to when you mention "lower lofts", yes? According to TM, the lower lofts are necessary due to the Center of gravity being so far back and down. So regardless of the club loft, the launch angle will be better for higher handicap players. Now I realize that is what their marketing department has to say, so who knows unless you hit them...

 

As for the drivers, the idea of having the movable weights further apart to more dramatically impact ball flight and center of gravity makes sense to me. I play an R7 and will not swtich anyways. I am happy with my drives and I can think of a better way to spend anywhere from $400-$700 depending on which model you buy.

 

Take a look at some of the posts here and on various other forums... some folks will try everything. TM wants to make some $$$, blame them? No golf manufacturer I know of is a non-profit organization.

[abc123tyler]

I just think it is... not cool that they would delay the release of the 460. Many people do not know about the 460 and would have waited instead of blowing 400$ on a 425.

[maguy1970]

Well if someone needs to buy a new driver, should they always wait until something better comes out? By similar, although not the same exactly, reasoning, one could fault Taylor Made for introducing the 425 before Titleist releases the 905R, since perhaps someone would be better suited to a 460cc driver like the 905.

Is TM really trying to make people buy both the 425 and the 460? Perhaps. I would bet there are better reasons around the different release dates than getting people to buy both new drivers.

 

I also think if someone feels duped because they buy a club in february and then something new and better comes out in April, it's their own fault. Similar to folks who try to buy pre-release clubs on e-bay. Didn't someone pay some ridiculous amount of money for a 905 a month or so ago? For what? A collector, ok. A person who HAS to have the newest gear, in my opinion, ok, just not smart.

 

It is not like their is not a wealth of information about what is coming out on the internet, so if you don;t do your research, it's your own fault

[abc123tyler]

The point is the guy comes into the shop looking for the newest best TM driver and is told 425 is the biggest/best. Next month comes the 460 which TM delayed just to sell the 425 a bit more before they released the 460.

[maguy1970]

Every pro shop in america should know about the 460, so I think that comes down to the integrity of the pro shop you deal with...

[Johnny]

The point is the guy comes into the shop looking for the newest best TM driver and is told 425 is the biggest/best. Next month comes the 460 which TM delayed just to sell the 425 a bit more before they released the 460.

 

They way I see it in this day and age...it takes one visit to www.taylormadegolf.com and you know the 460 is coming out.. No big surprise. Besides TM has been releasing drivers like mad the past few years..so it should come as no surprise. One big difference between the 425 and 460 is the number of screws..the 425 has 4 and the 460 will only have 2, so that will weigh into the minds of consumers as well.... BTW I hate TM and I cant believe I stuck up for them.

[millercg]

I'm not a TM fan, but I can see why TM release the 425 and the 460. The 460 only has 2 weights, and I think all you can do is adjust for fade or draw. While the 425 has the 4 weights, and allows for more trajectory adjustments in addition to the draw and fade.

 

Some people don't like hitting 460cc drivers, as the head can take some getting used to so the 425 might appeal the them.

 

Would TM like for people to buy both versions? Sure... What company wouldn't? I think you'll see several clubmakers with a driver around 460cc's, and another around 400cc's in their product lines (Titleist, Cobra, Cleveland, TM)

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Metalhead]

The point is the guy comes into the shop looking for the newest best TM driver and is told 425 is the biggest/best. Next month comes the 460 which TM delayed just to sell the 425 a bit more before they released the 460.

 

They way I see it in this day and age...it takes one visit to www.taylormadegolf.com and you know the 460 is coming out.. No big surprise. Besides TM has been releasing drivers like mad the past few years..so it should come as no surprise. One big difference between the 425 and 460 is the number of screws..the 425 has 4 and the 460 will only have 2, so that will weigh into the minds of consumers as well.... BTW I hate TM and I cant believe I stuck up for them.

:cheesy: :) that a good one J!

[steve81]

I am a huge TM fan........but not for their new stuff. I think the new R7 425 and 460 look ugly!

 

When it comes to TM, their older stuff are classics.....just look at whats in my bag and I think you will see what I mean......

[tpariff]

I play the 425, but my opinion on this topic has nothing to do with my playing that club, although I see it as an improvement over the original r7. I see exactly what TM is trying to accomplish by releasing the 425 and 460...they are targeting completely different groups of players. The 425 will appeal to those currently playing the 400cc r7 and/or those wanting a "TP" club, both instances allow the player to pick up 25cc more head volume and presumably a bit more forgiveness. The 460 will appeal to those currently playing a larger headed driver whether it's the r5 or any other make/model (Ping G2/G5, Nike Ignite 460, etc.). Additionally, the 460 will not be offered in a "TP" version (at least not yet), so it probably doesn't fit the needs of a low handicapper who prefers a square face.

 

So, if you've been playing a 460 head, you probably aren't even interested in the 425 r7, whether or not you know the 460 is coming soon. Again, TM is trying to meet the needs of all players by offering a wide array of drivers.

 

Just my .02.

[abc123tyler]

So many people are missing the point. TM could release the 460.... last year. But they haven't yet and are going to milk the market with the 425 until then. People who don't check the website and who don't know there is a 460 coming.....

[millercg]

So many people are missing the point. TM could release the 460.... last year. But they haven't yet and are going to milk the market with the 425 until then. People who don't check the website and who don't know there is a 460 coming.....

 

It's a problem that TM has created for themselves. Go into most big box golf stores, and they are loaded with TM drivers. I went into a Dick's Sporting Goods store this past weekend, and saw they had a large display devoted to the R540, R580, and the XD versions. That didn't even include the other display they had for the R5's and R7's. They have so many drivers on the market right now it's crazy. If they released the 425 or the 460 last year, their wouldn't have been as much demand. They really needed a few months to try let their distributors clear out the stock they had in already.

[papichulosteve]

So many people are missing the point. TM could release the 460.... last year. But they haven't yet and are going to milk the market with the 425 until then. People who don't check the website and who don't know there is a 460 coming.....

so its the manufactuers fault that people are buying products without proper information??? the responsibility should fall solely on the consumer. if you are going to drop that kind of money on a club shouldn't you know all the facts about not only that club but others coming out as well. for example my father is in the market for a new driver and had given serious thought to the R7 425 but after looking around and talking to me (i work in a golf store) he found out that the 460 was coming out and would better suit his game so he is going to wait.

[gman8324]

The 460 is marketed to a totally different demographic. The R5 is going to be phased out by this new 460. Most players who are on this board fit into the 425 and not the 460. The whole point of the 460 is that when the original 400cc-ish R7 came out everyone wanted to play it. Yet not everyone's ball striking ability allowed them to be able to play it and enjoy the driver. So taylormade has gone on to produce yes...another driver. Only to satisfy those who wanted to play the R7 but their in-consistent golf swings didn't allow for.

 

Its not a marketing ploy or another trickery. Its a totally different club for a TOTALLY different player. Its mostly aimed for people of a 15 handicap or higher and you'll find it produces a higher trajectory. Something that most lower handicap players wouldnt find really appealing because they lust after that piercing trajectory...

 

Thats my .03 cents

[dolleris]

The 460 is marketed to a totally different demographic. The R5 is going to be phased out by this new 460. Most players who are on this board fit into the 425 and not the 460. The whole point of the 460 is that when the original 400cc-ish R7 came out everyone wanted to play it. Yet not everyone's ball striking ability allowed them to be able to play it and enjoy the driver. So taylormade has gone on to produce yes...another driver. Only to satisfy those who wanted to play the R7 but their in-consistent golf swings didn't allow for.

 

Its not a marketing ploy or another trickery. Its a totally different club for a TOTALLY different player. Its mostly aimed for people of a 15 handicap or higher and you'll find it produces a higher trajectory. Something that most lower handicap players wouldnt find really appealing because they lust after that piercing trajectory...

 

Thats my .03 cents

Good post and I agree :cheesy: .

 

To the orig. topic starter who launched this 1.575.467.923th 'TM hater' topic : no one forces any consumer to buy.

A good driver - say one of last years models - doesn't become obsolete just because another model is released. Or does it??

 

Yes, a lot of in-out traffic will take place if You MUST have the newest release of a brand name driver in the bag - but who forces You to do so?

All I see TM doing is providing a driver for every player....

It's the ho'ing side of it that causes the main problem with "....MUST play the newest, can't keep up, can't afford it, someone is to blame......oooh - TM is the crook!"

 

My CLeve Comp doesn't perform worse even if there's a new Cleve kid on the block - same goes for my TM R5 TP.....

A bonus is - You can have a top-driver for less if You can wait a few months :)

 

cheers,

Soeren

[villa]

Not a big fan of Taylor Made due to the fact that they are constantly releasing new products but you can't argue with the fact that everything they bring out is quality. They're not just a great driver maker anymore either. They've still got some work to do to compete with Vokey and Cleveland but they're making themselves a big name in the wedge market and for the first time in ages you can go out and buy a Taylor Made putter without the fear of it going out of production in a couple of weeks never to be seen again (Nubbins)

 

P.S Just bought the R7 425 TP because it was better than anything else i've tried

[mr_divots]

First, let me preface this by saying I am not loyal to any ONE brand of equipment.

I see the same thing happen across many companies' product offerings. They put out a great product that they are hard-pressed to improve upon. It leaves them only the ability to slighty "tweak" the design thereafter without going to a completely new design. It wouldn't be a good idea to completely abandon a good product concept/line, and all the associated research and design that went into it.

 

Look at some highly touted clubs that were followed by "tweaks" lately. The Titleist 905, a wonderful driver, was met with mixed reviews probably because it wasn't radically different enough from the 983 series drivers, which were really great and revolutionary in their design. Yet, people were mad that it wasn't MORE like the 983's. It was hard for Titleist to win!

 

Same with the Ping G2/G5 now. G2's sold like hotcakes and people loved them. Now, Ping has further refined the design, but it's not different enough from the G2, so people are giving it mixed reviews. But, if they went in a totally different direction, people would say they should have kept it more like the G2. Hard for Ping to win here also.

 

Now, as for Taylor Made. They revolutionized club design with the R7. It is hard to improve upon the design, but that is what they're attempting to do. The 425cc is going to be close to the original R7, but slightly more stable. It will be more workable than the 460cc R7. I think it's cool that Taylor Made offers the two sizes and lets consumers choose. You can get mad at Taylor Made for releasing so many products, but the truth of the matter is, they're pretty darned good. Just use the last model and be a generation behind if the prices of the newest model are irksome to you. After all, I don't hear any of the OEM's saying, "Oh, our last club was junk, you need the new one." They just try to highlight the differences and sell you on that.

[matt411]

So many people are missing the point. TM could release the 460.... last year. But they haven't yet and are going to milk the market with the 425 until then. People who don't check the website and who don't know there is a 460 coming.....

You do realize that TalyorMade is a business don't you? Pretty sure they are publicly traded also. As a company, their job is to appease the stockholders and make money. If they thought they would make more money by releasing them at the same time then they would have. I'm sure through experience and market analysis, they came to the conclusion that a tiered release would have a better economic impact on TMAG. It's as simple as that. Today's consumer has the ability to research, (especially those dropping 400-800 bucks on a new TM driver). Why would you blame a for profit company for trying to make money and feel sorry for the guy who throws down $800 with out doing some research? I just don't get it.

[bantam]

I will stick with the 425. Its great to be able to modify the head to match up with the shaft. With other heads you have to really work hard to get the right shaft combo. The 4 ports give me way more options before I need to change the shaft. And the 4 ports vs 2 ports is very significant. The extra ports impact the trajectory. I won't be switching to the 460.

[maguy1970]

I think the R7 is a gimmick.....i grew up hitting any club put in my hand...it's not the club folks...it's you and your swing....no club is going to hit a fade or draw just because you mess around with those weights...i bought one and tried it....i'm giving it to my son....lol.....bill... :cheesy:

 

I will attest that I am in the R7 camp. I took my driver to a pro shop with a launch monitor here in MA, and spent roughly an hour last year hitting balls with different weight configurations until I got the feel and statistics I was looking for. What I like most about the weights is the ability to add weight and increase the swingweight. I have added 4 grams from the initial 24 grams of screws and it has made a HUGE difference in how the clubhead feels going back and coming down throught the ball. I have a very hard time now when I try out any of my buddies G2's or 983's or 905's on the range.

[abc123tyler]

I'm not a TM hater.

 

more of a dislike.

 

The products themself aren't bad; I just don't like the way they release equipment.

[sergizmo]

TM releasing so many drivers is good for consumers and bad for retailers. It's good for consumers because they can wait a few months until a new TM driver comes out and the current model is replaced. These "old" models which are virtually new can then be had for cheap anywhere. This same situation hurts retailers due to them having to clear out replaced models at or below cost.

[lets_rahk]

I think it is mostly marketing ploys by TM. I play the original R7. I got mine very early for a great price. I don't really see the advantage to "upgrade" to a R7 425 at this point. The R7 460 might be more forgiving but isn't it really just a larger R5 TP? Who knows, the next TM driver will probably be a R7 460 with a longer geometry like the Nike SQ and Cleveland HiBore. Heck they may even make it a comp.

[hoosiervolunteer]

I don't think TM is screwing anybody. The only people they might be screwing are the guys who set up displays at the golf shops. They have a LOT of different models out there and I'm sure it's a pain to re-display them all the time. I think it's great that TM puts out a lot of different woods in their lineup. They cover every base. Instead of scrapping old ideas, they keep them around at a lower price point. This lets the avg joe get some better equipment and technology in his bag and not break the bank. Case in point the 580 series. The 580XD is a great driver and they have them at the shop for $140 bucks. To me that is helping the avg joe not hurting him. Callaway could have kept the 454 in the lineup longer than a year and run it beside the new X and Fusion, but they won't. Nobody is ripping them. T-Made could let the older clubs go to the graveyard like everybody else and just run the 425 and R5. Then dump the R5 for the new 460 and just run it and the 425. It might make some guys happy that they only have 2 full-price models available, but not avg joe. He wants good equipment at a good price and T-made delivers that.

[Amicus]

A salesman at a chain store, Dick's, told me that only chains make good money with TMs. Green grass don't like them because they get stuck with merchandise they bought with little incentive discount when the rapid obsolesence cycle hits. Dick's just has a deal that they buy a certain amount of units which come in waives. They "average down" because they pay less on product entry and get excess inventory to liquidate when TM is stuck with excess product. Dick's R7 quad is $249 and R7 quad ht is $299. Some may be left over and bought at a higher price, but they are getting new inventory on these 2004 and 2005 clubs and making money on them despite the discount. The green grass guy who paid way more than Dick's to put a few in the shop can't mark them down from $500 to $400 to move them when the 425 is $400 and Dick's is probably selling the older models for what Joe Green Grass bought them for - $250 would be a 100% mark up.

 

Also, to the original post - I think the R7 - 460 is really the new R5. I also not that by reducing their intial prices for the 425 and 460 to $400, TM is moving back to the market. Probably in response to Ping and Cleveland who had pretty fine weaponry for $299 in 2005.

[marltonfjm]

I don't think your making a compelling argument here. The 425 and 460 are not the same club and will produce different result due to the weighting schemes used in each head. I really don't see how this is any different than Callaway having an FT-3, BB454, X460 or Cobra and their 3 models or now Titliest and their 3 models.

 

Taylor Made didn't exactly hide the fact that the 460 was coming when the 425 was issued.

[TearsOfMcCown]

Wether you know all of the latest equip news or not, if you see a company has a 425 CC driver. you should bank on the fact that soon enough they will have a 460. The fact of the matter is i dont think they should even call the 460 an r7, because basically it is just a nicer version of the r5. It doesnt have 4 movable weights like the r7's have. People wanted TM to come out with a 460. Here it is

[TearsOfMcCown]

I dont disagree. I dont feel you have to have 4 weights, it just seems to me the r7 is a newer version of the r5 tp