Casual water? Turning the ball over.

roadkill · May 5, 2009

Right or wrong to improve your lie?

I know the rule is to play is as it lies. I was playing today and the course was soggy and muddy in the fairways. Does anyone ever turn the ball over to a grassy lie when it's sitting in a place that was a puddle the day before?

EJ Mac · May 5, 2009

Lift, clean and place in the fairway.

hbear · May 5, 2009

Casual water is usally nearest point + 12". Place not drop.

Tmiller72 · May 5, 2009

Relief from casual water is nearest point of relief no closer to the hole and you must DROP the ball. Lift clean and place is a local rule that tournaments will sometimes use. Whenever you get relief from a course condition such as casual water and GUR, it's always closest point no nearer to the hole and you have to drop the ball. Also, free drops you get one club length and penalty drops you get 2.

Bomb and Gouge · May 5, 2009

I know the rule is to play is as it lies. I was playing today and the course was soggy and muddy in the fairways. Does anyone ever turn the ball over to a grassy lie when it's sitting in a place that was a puddle the day before?

Unless LC&P has been stipulated, you DO NOT get relief from mud or a "former puddle".

HoosierGolfer · May 5, 2009

My home course has recieved right around 13 inches of rain in the month of April. For league play and other official play during the last two weeks they had a local "lift/clean/place" rule in place. For tonights league it will be "play it down" as the course has dried out and the "lift/clean/place" will no longer apply. You can get relief from casual water if your ball is in standing water anywhere on the course.

drpino · May 5, 2009

definition of casual water via USGA:

Casual Water
"Casual water" is any temporary accumulation of water on the course that is not in a water hazard and is visible before or after the player takes his stance. Snow and natural ice, other than frost, are either casual water or loose impediments, at the option of the player. Manufactured ice is an obstruction. Dew and frost are not casual water.

A ball is in casual water when it lies in or any part of it touches the casual water.

important to note are these parts of the definition: "visible before or after the player takes his stance" & "A ball is in casual water when it lies in or any part of it touches the casual water."

jaskanski · May 5, 2009

Casual water is a matter of fact. It is either there to see or is visible when you take your normal stance to play the ball. There is no in between soggy or muddy relief - it's either casual water or it's not. If it's not there, there is no relief. Mud is not casual water and you do not get relief from casual water by placing the ball either. Placing is a local rule that may be invoked by the committee or tournament officials during social or competative rounds. If in doubt, play it as it lies.

teejaywhy · May 6, 2009

Casual water is a matter of fact. It is either there to see or is visible when you take your normal stance to play the ball. There is no in between soggy or muddy relief - it's either casual water or it's not. If it's not there, there is no relief. Mud is not casual water and you do not get relief from casual water by placing the ball either. Placing is a local rule that may be invoked by the committee or tournament officials during social or competative rounds. If in doubt, play it as it lies.

This is a great summary of the casual water rule.

The OP said he knows the rule and asked if anybody improves their lies. I think the answer is yes, many people improve their lies and not just because it is muddy or wet. I know of some players who believe they are entitled to a perfect lie in the fairway and pretty much roll the ball regardless of the situation.

limpwrist · May 6, 2009

A ball is in casual water when it lies in or any part of it touches the casual water

Just to add another point, you also get relief if casual water (abnormal ground condition) interferes with your stance or the area of your intended swing under Rule 25-1 as long as the ball is not in a water hazard. And as has already been pointed out, you must drop the ball when taking relief unless it is on the putting green of the hole being played, in which case you would place it.

http://www.usga.org/playing/rules/books/ru...ule25.html#25-1

"Interference by an abnormal ground condition occurs when a ball lies in or touches the condition or when the condition interferes with the player's stance or the area of his intended swing."