First GPS

[BlackRock]

I've used a laser on an off for the past three years and found that near the end, I rarely used it because I was more concerned with the locations of hazards around the green than the actual pin itself. As an 18 handicap with limited practice time, my approach to the game has changed to basically playing smart golf and not necessarily hitting driver off every tee but more so placing my tee shots to give me the best shot at hitting the green with my second shot. This is where I really seem to think the Upro will help me.

I pulled the trigger today and bought it from [url="http://www.target.com/5-90931E8-Callaway-uPro-GPS/dp/B001D7517Q/ref=sc_qi_detailbutton"]target.com[/url] for only $199.00. After finding a [url="http://www.bargainist.com/deals/stores/target/"]coupon link[/url] for $5 off $50 purchase and another 10% off, my final price with shipping was less than $207. Although it's on backorder for 2 to 4 weeks, I really couldn't pass this offer up. Plus, if I don't like it or have a problem, I can return it to the Target store a few miles from my house and do not have to ship it anywhere.

My game plan is to download my golf league course using my one free Pro Mode download and see how I like it before I invest in buying credits for other courses. At a minimum, as long as this unit doesn't break down, the basic mode with no annual fee is worth the $200.

I'll post my review of the unit when my golf league starts up in April (hopefully, the snow will be melted).

[Sabaka]

[quote name='The Hawkeye' date='21 February 2010 - 06:40 PM' timestamp='1266799232' post='2267833']
If you are going to try to make an elitest argument about laser based rangefinders as the choice of "real" golfers, go right ahead. But, you do realize you are missing the trees for the forest.

A GPS is more convenient, it gives you immediate information about the entire hole (if you get a good one). Info in a snapshot. It gives you multiple distances in a glance...distance to a layup, to traps, to water and of course to the green. With a laser I had to shoot all these distances while my foursome patiently waited. They hated it and frankly, I hated it. If you are trying to find a layup spot to the middle of the fairway with a laser you are in trouble. You need something to bounce the laser off of, and often a flat fairway provides nothing. So you are screwed and any distance your laser does provide you with is VERY unreliable. If you are playing a sharp dogleg you cannot see with the laser if it worth trying to go over the trees. The laser cannot work THROUGH trees. If you are going uphill to a blind pin on a long par 4 or 5, you cannot get a distance. Resort courses for some reason seem to always have a blind shot or two. On mnay occasions when I hit a stray drive and was hindered by trees from getting a distance from my ball to the pin I found myself needing a calculator to add my distance to the 150 from where I was, then accounting for the angle. Fortunately I teach math so I can do that. Most guys cannot. Lasers use batteries too and because the life is so long I never carried a spare and then one round...screwed. It happens. Look, lasers are nice tools...don't get me wrong, but they are somewhat crude compared to a GPS.

So it comes down to accuracy. That is often the thing that concerns the better golfer. It clearly concerns you. Yes, with the previous satellite GPS technology studies were showing +/- 7 yards on golf GPS units with respect to accuracy. That has changed though. I have checked my uPro against my Bushnell on many, many occasions and never found them to be more than 2-3 yard different. That is 2 to 3 steps. Now, I am 2 handicap and I do not lose sleep over 2 to 3 steps. On the PGA tour they don't lose sleep over it either. I saw Poulter today walking off distance to a sprinkler head for a 165 yard shot. It was at least 10 steps he walked, I checked it with my DVR. He is a tall guy and he is just walking away. Well, if his stride is off 6 inches, a little longer than a cellphone, then over the course of 10 steps that is....ta da...nearly 2 yards off.

If I played at the same club for 80% of my golf, I wouldn't need either of these things. I would make a yardage book like the pros and go from there. But I play no more than 25% of my golf at any one course. I play at least 5 new courses a year, and this year I will play that many new courses on one Myrtle trip. Having a uPro that gives me a flyover is invaluable. I was a guy who never played a course well the first time. With the uPro I have noticed that is no longer true.

One last thing, when I played a new upscale course and relied entirely on my laser, I still bought the yardage book (usually $5-$10) but with my uPro, I never would buy one.

So to each his own. But, please, quit making that antiquated argument about accuracy. That dog don't hunt. And please, we're all avid golfers here, we are in the same club so to speak, so no need to be so snobbish about the laser.
[/quote]

+1

Nice to know it was not just me that felt like I was being talked down to.

[Snowgolf]

garmin, uPro, some golfbuddy, and ski caddie, and one against gps.
Anyone else want to chime in for Golfholio and me.
I think the question was GPS recomondations.

[phil75070]

As for lasers being what all the better golfers carry, I play with a group of guys with handicaps ranging from 2 to 9. Only one of the group does NOT carry a GPS.

Current accuracy levels of any decent golf GPS are in the 2-3 yard range and there are constant improvements being made in regard to GPS accuracy, fueled by the demands of the users and to compete even more favorably with lasers. Don't be surprised if in the not too distant future someone comes out with an affordable golf-dedicated GPS where the accuracy approaches that of professional GPS survey devices.

[Zunes]

I have two different GPS devices, both are always within 2-3 yards of each other and within 2-3 yards of the markers on the course. 2-3 yards is better accuracy than my ability to hit most of my clubs so why do I need better than that?

[friscoloco]

[quote name='avgjoe' date='19 February 2010 - 07:26 PM' timestamp='1266636396' post='2263991']
yeah, nice chart... might want to add cost of membership/downloads tho, to give closer indication of actual cost.

you've mapped courses for igolf? the ones we all "buy"? or did you map your own?
[/quote]


Avgjoe- I worked for iGolf and mapping courses was one of the perks of the job. I'd much rather be on the course than behind the desk...

[sumat]

Snowgolf,

I bought a Garmin G5 last October. It has been perfect for me. I live in Florida and take advantage of the summer golf passes available, and so I play a lot of different courses. I haven't found a course here yet that had a yardage book, and most do not have course maps either. I wanted a GPS that showed the complete hole view. Considering the prices were fairly comparable, I wanted one that had no annual fees and no download fees. I liked the 1 year warranty. I bought it at Golf Galaxy and so had 30 days to return it if I hated it. It was one of the more expensive models, but with the lack of annual/download/"promode" fees, in the long run I felt it was the better bargain.

So, in answer to the list of criteria,

1. It does have automatic course recognition. Turn it on, press play, and the course you are on is the first listed. It recognizes the hole you are on, but it gets "confused" if you start on 10 instead of 1. You have to manually advance it.

2. I need glasses to read, but I can read the numbers on the screen.

3. Hazard, water, bunker measurements there.

4. I used mine Friday, Sat and Sunday this past weekend. The batteries still show a 75% charge. I use rechargeables and keep an extra set in the bag. There isn't much advance warning when the batteries go, but it takes less than a minute to change them. As far as yardage reliability is concerned, the few times I compared with someone else's, we were within 1-2 yards.

5. Free downloads, no annual fees.

6. I don't know about the aerial view.

7. The few times I have had questions, Garmin has been more than accomodating and quick to respond.

8. No need for a car charger - belt clip is included - I clip it on my bag when walking - cupholder in cart when riding.

9. Waterproof - I wanted that - it rains a lot in Florida in the summer!

10. Very easy to use. All touch screen.

Also - 1 year warranty.


I can only recall a couple of times when the Garmin was inaccurate, and both were due to changes by the golf course itself in the last year (ie, one sand trap was removed, one tee box was relocated).

So, after 4-5 months of use, I still feel I made the right decision. Garmin's recent upgrade that allows you to keep stats on your round, as well as average yardage on your clubs has been a plus.

I hope this helps in your decision.

[Snowgolf]

Thanks sumat, I think that garmin is a great choice. I also like the fact that they don't just rely on
income from the golf market. They will be around, while I am not so sure about some of the others.
I think that the smart phone golf apps will take a huge chunk out of the gps market forcing prices down,
and when that happens some companies will be gone.

[slash77]

Sumat-

Thanks for the detail on the Garmin G5. I've owned the Skycaddie SG2.5 and SG5. Great GPS units, but I really want the hole view and the ability to touch any point on the hole to see the distance. SGX in intriging, but I'm still leaning toward the G5.

Aaron

[friscoloco]

Slash77,
Take a look at the Bushnell XGC which also gives you the ability to pick off any point. I think the Garmin G3, G5 and Bushnell XGC are the only devices that give you that option on an entire U.S. basis.

[k.kim913]

U Pro Go

[pavlam05]

Sky Caddie has been around the longest, so it is understandable that they would have some advantages to them...more courses, new models, tweaks on old ones, etc. However, the annual fee, as it is for most, is my biggest turn off for them.

I love the features of the Garmin G5...but why is Garmin so far behind in the number of available courses? This is probably my one concern in regards to the Garmin. How quick is their response time when you request a new course to be mapped?

[ronbo]

Just saw the New Skycaddie SGX at a golf Expo and It's the best unit on the market. It has ever thing you want. Don't waste your time with anything else. This thing ROCKS !

[avgjoe]

[quote name='ronbo' date='14 March 2010 - 08:18 PM' timestamp='1268612313' post='2315836']
Just saw the New Skycaddie SGX at a golf Expo and It's the best unit on the market. It has ever thing you want. Don't waste your time with anything else. This thing ROCKS !
[/quote]


have you tried this one? on course? which others have you compared it to?

[Harry Longshanks]

[quote name='JofZ' date='21 February 2010 - 09:36 AM' timestamp='1266770206' post='2266897']
A laser!
GPS really is a joke, you are better off guessing or walking off yardage. The MofE is so great with a GPS that I find them useless. I have (2) Skycaddies, use them side by side and they are off by 8-10 yards, that is unacceptable.

My course superintendent told me how Skycaddie gets their info and it is not as advertised and God forbid a change is made to a course!
[/quote]


[quote name='Snowgolf' date='21 February 2010 - 09:46 AM' timestamp='1266770783' post='2266912']
They are out 8 to 10 Yards?
There must be a severe calibration problem.
Have you tried these against any others, maybe a friend with
a different brand.
[/quote]


[quote name='The Hawkeye' date='21 February 2010 - 03:04 PM' timestamp='1266789898' post='2267549']
You sound like a guy who works for a laser manufacturer. The GPS works fine and accurately, some better and and more accurately of course. But, there is a reason why almost 22 million have been sold worldwide. If you ge a good one they are excellent and the do far mor than a laser. Blind shots are no longer blind. You play faster. You can find layups in midfairway, no need for a tree or bump in the landscape. Certainly lasers are excellent. Played with one for years, still have and still carry it (just in case the battery dies on the GPS). But to me, there is no realy comparison.
[/quote]

I know I'm chiming in a little late here, but I'm with Snowgolf and Hawkeye. I have a laser and 2 GPSs (second was a gift and an upgrade over the older one). I've tested the accuracy of the GPS by shooting the pin with the laser. Every time, the difference (if any) was the result the pin being somewhere other than the center of the green and the margin of error for GPS, which is 1-3 yards and not 8-10 yards. (And if you can consistently control your shots within 9 feet, then, by all means, get a laser.) If someone is thinks they are getting a MOE of 10 yards (30 ft.) then they have a faulty unit, don't realize where the pin is in relation to the front/center/back of the green, or are talking out of their arse.

When GPSs suck is when there are temporary greens because, obviously, they haven't been mapped. But even that can be mitigated by the newer models that have the crosshair feature that lets you pick an exact point and measure to that (e.g. Bushnell Yardage Pro XGC and Callaway uPro).

[Snowgolf]

I have been coming back to this thread with interest. I still do not know just what
I will do. The problem is the price of all of these units. I am now leaning toward the
garmin, but my eyes are getting older too, and I want large clear yardage display.
Again I fear that iphone apps, and GPS sales saturation will slow the income for
many down the road, and we will see some that will cease to work in the future.
I would just hate to spend $400, and not get at least a few years out of it.
I hope Golfolio didn't mind me jumping into this thread. The info I read here
and elswhere has been very informative.

[EnglishBob]

I started with a laser and switched to a GPS after about a year and a half. I have been using the Skycaddie SG4 for the last year or so and despite the SG4 getting some bad reviews I can say i have had no issues with it at all.

I have recently tried 2-3 different Blackberry and Iphone Golf GPS programs and my biggest gripe is that the phone won't get through a full round most of the time without the battery dying.

[Harry Longshanks]

[quote name='Snowgolf' date='15 March 2010 - 08:46 AM' timestamp='1268667984' post='2316991']
Again I fear that iphone apps, and GPS sales saturation will slow the income for
many down the road, and we will see some that will cease to work in the future.
[/quote]

Snowgolf-

I'm no industry expert, but what I've heard from people who've tried golf GPS phone apps is that they suck the battery dry. Some even complaining that they can't make it through a round. I have an iPhone and I know when I use the street GPS, the battery drains quickly. So, I'm not sure smartphones are a legitimate threat. But I completely understand your concern about dropping $200-$400 on something that might not have long term staying power. Maybe try to pick up one used?

EDIT:

[quote name='EnglishBob']I have recently tried 2-3 different Blackberry and Iphone Golf GPS programs and my biggest gripe is that the phone won't get through a full round most of the time without the battery dying.[/quote]

Heh-heh! Thanks for unintentionally (we posted at the exact same time) backing me up Bob!

[Golfholio]

I have been coming back to this thread with interest. I still do not know just what

I will do. The problem is the price of all of these units. I am now leaning toward the

garmin, but my eyes are getting older too, and I want large clear yardage display.

Again I fear that iphone apps, and GPS sales saturation will slow the income for

many down the road, and we will see some that will cease to work in the future.

I would just hate to spend $400, and not get at least a few years out of it.

I hope Golfolio didn't mind me jumping into this thread. The info I read here

and elswhere has been very informative.

 

Snowgolf - no worries at all, you've asked some good questions and moved the debate along.

 

But obviously, you're not enough of a ho... I think I'll end up dropping 2 large on equipment this year, knowing perfectly well that I'll need (want) to replace some of it next year...

[BlackDiamondPar5]

Phil,
I just used my Golf Guru G002 yesterday for the first time since the fall and I still marvel at what a great product it is. It is well built, quality feel, easy to use, plenty of map detail and very accurate. For anyone interested they've got used units starting at $179.

I also heard about the new Guru 6 they've got coming out. I'm told it has a similar form factor to an iPhone.

[phil75070]

[quote name='Andy L' date='21 March 2010 - 08:49 AM' timestamp='1269179378' post='2330739']
Phil,
I just used my Golf Guru G002 yesterday for the first time since the fall and I still marvel at what a great product it is. It is well built, quality feel, easy to use, plenty of map detail and very accurate. For anyone interested they've got used units starting at $179.

I also heard about the new Guru 6 they've got coming out. I'm told it has a similar form factor to an iPhone.
[/quote]

I heard about that, too, and with accuracy approaching "survey grade"!

[TML]

[quote name='Harry Longshanks' date='15 March 2010 - 09:16 AM' timestamp='1268669761' post='2317063']
[quote name='Snowgolf' date='15 March 2010 - 08:46 AM' timestamp='1268667984' post='2316991']
Again I fear that iphone apps, and GPS sales saturation will slow the income for
many down the road, and we will see some that will cease to work in the future.
[/quote]

Snowgolf-

I'm no industry expert, but what I've heard from people who've tried golf GPS phone apps is that they suck the battery dry. Some even complaining that they can't make it through a round. I have an iPhone and I know when I use the street GPS, the battery drains quickly. So, I'm not sure smartphones are a legitimate threat. But I completely understand your concern about dropping $200-$400 on something that might not have long term staying power. Maybe try to pick up one used?

EDIT:

[quote name='EnglishBob']I have recently tried 2-3 different Blackberry and Iphone Golf GPS programs and my biggest gripe is that the phone won't get through a full round most of the time without the battery dying.[/quote]

Heh-heh! Thanks for unintentionally (we posted at the exact same time) backing me up Bob!
[/quote]
2 things you can do to remedy the problem.

- The Iphone aftermarket has some great battery extenders for cheap.
- Golfshot recommends the following to minimize power usage. Use the GPS lock feature to keep the satellite readings dynamic, instead of locking the iphone. Turn off wireless, notifications and bluetooth in your settings of the IPhone. It does allow you to use the phone for 1 round of golf.

All that said, I use both during the round. The golfshot and Leupold GX-1.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

[quote name='phil75070' date='21 March 2010 - 10:14 AM' timestamp='1269180894' post='2330772']
[quote name='Andy L' date='21 March 2010 - 08:49 AM' timestamp='1269179378' post='2330739']
Phil,
I just used my Golf Guru G002 yesterday for the first time since the fall and I still marvel at what a great product it is. It is well built, quality feel, easy to use, plenty of map detail and very accurate. For anyone interested they've got used units starting at $179.

I also heard about the new Guru 6 they've got coming out. I'm told it has a similar form factor to an iPhone.
[/quote]

I heard about that, too, and with accuracy approaching "survey grade"!
[/quote]

Approaching survey grade... wow that is impressive! I hope they hit a home run with the G6.

[TML]

if you are losing strokes from not having survey grade gps, you must be good!

[odieaxp]

I got a Sonnocaddy V300 last year and I am very happy with it. I have compared it to both the Skycaddy 4 and 5 and the yardages were Identical. I like the hole view and the scorecard function as well. Over all it is a real nice GPS.

[phil75070]

[quote name='TML' date='22 March 2010 - 11:50 AM' timestamp='1269276657' post='2333265']
if you are losing strokes from not having survey grade gps, you must be good!
[/quote]

I think the 2-3 yard accuracy of most of today's GPS devices is more than sufficient for anyone but possibly the pros. However, there are those that insist that anything less accurate than a laser is just not good enough. I think the idea of increased accuracy is more of a way to address and possibly win some of those people over. However, even with SmartGreen/Intelligreen functionality I don't how accurate one can be with a GPS when it comes to distance to the pin.

I played a course today that has GPS in the carts. I would never use cart-based GPS systems to evaluate the accuracy of GPS technology. This particular system supposedly gives a distance to the pin but on several holes the pin location as shown on the GPS was 15 feet or more from where the pin had actually been cut! On one hole, the pin was shown on the screen below a ridge while it was actually cut on the tier above.

[Sabaka]

I was able to finally put the G5 in play this past week and was very pleased with it. Thoughts:

1) The accuracy was very good. I played with a guy who was shooting pins with his laser and we were within a couple of yards of each other all day.

2) I got two rounds out of a set of alkaline batteries. I will be giving my Sanyo rechargeables a go tomorrow.

3) I had no issues viewing the screen. The visibility was better in direct sunlight. I wore Oakley V28 Black Iridium sunglasses - no problems.

4) One of the reasons I went with the Garmin was because I wanted the hole auto advance feature. Good decision; just turned it on and away I went. Other than using the zoom feature a few times I did not have to interface with the unit all that much. I did hit the green view on 50% of the holes to get the front, back, middle distances. I don't see how folks have the time to use a unit that requires a lot of interface (manually advancing holes, entering scores, marking distances, etc.). That would be just way too much fiddle factor for me to manage.

Overall I was very pleased with the device. My only beef at this point is getting just two rounds out of the alkalines but if the rechargeables can double that output I think this unit will improve my game and make the game more enjoyable.

[kesler]

I use Golf Buddy Tour. Simple, easy to use, no fees, just turn it on and it finds course.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

[quote name='phil75070' date='22 March 2010 - 09:03 PM' timestamp='1269306201' post='2334424']
[quote name='TML' date='22 March 2010 - 11:50 AM' timestamp='1269276657' post='2333265']
if you are losing strokes from not having survey grade gps, you must be good!
[/quote]

I think the 2-3 yard accuracy of most of today's GPS devices is more than sufficient for anyone but possibly the pros. However, there are those that insist that anything less accurate than a laser is just not good enough. I think the idea of increased accuracy is more of a way to address and possibly win some of those people over. However, even with SmartGreen/Intelligreen functionality I don't how accurate one can be with a GPS when it comes to distance to the pin.

I played a course today that has GPS in the carts. I would never use cart-based GPS systems to evaluate the accuracy of GPS technology. This particular system supposedly gives a distance to the pin but on several holes the pin location as shown on the GPS was 15 feet or more from where the pin had actually been cut! On one hole, the pin was shown on the screen below a ridge while it was actually cut on the tier above.
[/quote]

Phil, I agree with you about the cart mounted systems. I had the opportunity to compare my Golf Guru G002 to a cart mounted system, and I will tell you that the G002 was the hands down winner. The yardage updated more quickly, it was closer to the yardage markers and it provided a significantly more stable yardage reading when stationary. I also agree, the whole pin location thing with the cart mounted system is questionable. My preference, like on the G002, is that it's most helpful to have the Smart Green/IntelliGrean distances Far, Center and Near green readings.

As far as the survey grade accuracy, it's probably not necessary for anyone but the pro's. But if the survey grade accuracy can help win over a few more laser guys, then it's a good product feature.

I'm eager to see what the Golf Guru 6 looks like. Golf Guru has won me over with their superior customer service. The few maps that I needed to request were always turned around in 3-4 days and were accurate and highly detailed.

[Rochester]

Last summer I downloaded Google Earth and mapped a couple of golf courses I play frequently. I mapped just the greens, and uploaded these greens (waypoints) to a Garmin Foretrex 101 GPS, which I already owned and used extensively for hunting, hiking, snowhoeing, paddling and biking. The Foretrex is an entry-level, wristwatch-like GPS. However, it is too big to wear on the wrist for golf, so I attached it to my cart. Because the Foretrex GPS tends to show distances in tenths of a mile (feet for shorter distances) when set to read statute miles (U.S. measurement system), I had to use meters as my default measurement system to get the accuracy I wanted. I just carried a little chart that converted meters to yards, and specified what clubs to use in 10-meter increments. I fine-tuned the courses when I played them, to get more accurate positions for the greens, but I was surprised at how close I got with Google Earth. Most of them I did not even have to change. I did all of this to see how accurate it was going to be, see how much it helped, and to determine if I wanted a golf-dedicated GPS. I started playing again last year after a 20 year hiatus, and my biggest problem was judging distances, finding sprinkler heads, pacing distances off, etc. Using my little GPS REALLY helped me!

So... this spring I went to my local golf store, and got them to match the on-line price for a Bushnell Neo, $99.99. I haven't used it yet, but I think I'm really going to like it. It is very easy to use, and it is easy to download courses. I use a Macintosh, BTW. I bought the annual membership for $35, and I have already downloaded 50 courses out of the 100 per year that I can download. Truthfully, I'll probably download 100, but many of them, I'm guessing, I'll probably never play. I probably won't renew next year. With the Neo, I own the courses after downloading them, and I can fine tune them manually if things on the course change. In fact, I can map a course myself if iGolf doesn't have it, but so far I haven't been able to find a course in Wisconsin, that I wanted, that wasn't already mapped. I'm very impressed with this little device, but until I get out (hopefully this week) I won't know for sure how good it is

Update: I've used it for two rounds now, and it is perfect. My brother-in-law loves it and wants to buy one now too. Great purchase... and will probably save me more strokes than just about any other golf accessory I could buy. It is pretty enlightening too! My drives are about the distance I thought they were. Measuring my shots with other clubs, particularly irons, has helped me already, in fine-tuning what clubs to use.