Right forearm takeaway per the transript

[Lefthook]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1310074145' post='3372872']
[quote name='Lefthook' timestamp='1310056777' post='3372019']Hogan's ball flight was btw on the low side. So he had more forward shaft lean at impact than most. Quite the opposite of what you implied with your "weak grip enables less shaft lean" observation. That observation would perhaps be valid for a flipper but not for a ball striker of Hogan's caliber.
[/quote]

I can't play with weak right hand grip and have a low ball flight (with lots of shaft lien). I am not disagreeing with you, I actually agree with you on this, but how did he do this without having a wide open face. His right wrist at impact does not look out of the oridinary either.
[/quote]

His face was wide open compared to his hands, but not compared to where the club head was going. His hands were going left while the club head was going straight down the line - or at least close to it. A pretty violent release makes the difference I think.


But there is probably more to this than his release.

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='Lefthook' timestamp='1310010812' post='3370846']
[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1309913969' post='3367276']
Hogan also said he swung his left arm across his chest.. And he said you gotta do it[b][color="#ff0000"] with the left arm[/color][/b]... Seems to me his shoulders are of secondary importance..only mention Hogan said of the shoulders is that it should turn as much as possible, with left shoulder hitting the chin on top..and moving the arms will surely move the shoulders as the arms are attached to them...not saying RFT is Hogan, but I disagree it's CLEAR that it's not Hogan...

[/quote]


I recently listened to an interview with Hogan where he emphasized the left hand / arm in the takeaway - as you said above. A Right Forearm Pickup per TGM will emphasize the right hand and arm. So IMO Hogan didn't do a RFP. Hogan has also been quoted on saying - in response to a H2 to a back swing question: You don't hit the ball with the back swing. So this was perhaps not on the top of his priority list.

I have spent quite a few hours over the stretch of quite a few years trying to figuring out The Golfing Machine. When you read about the RFP in TGM - and about the strictly related concept of "educated hands" it is not clear whether these are procedures defined by some physical attributes or merely different mental ways of producing the same motion. If they are mental it simply means that you put your mind in your hands, train your body to respond to whatever you want to do with your hands. That also means that you put your hands in charge of the whole body. So an RFP could start with hips and shoulders, everything together or be very handsy - depending on the shot - but you would be thinking of how you wanted to move the club with the Right Forearm. And not thinking about how you needed to move your right hip to get the job done - and so forth.

There is also another TGM concept family member that is worth mention here, and that is the TGM geometry of the right forearm and the wrist. The right wrist should be bent and level - and the right forearm should be on plane at address & impact. The Right forearm flying wedge (the plane defined by the clubshaft and the right forearm) should be at right angles to the Left Arm Flying Wedge (the wrist cocck plane). This 90* relationship puts some demands on the grip....

Most decent golfers have the forearm on plane at impact, but not at address. And the left wrist should be reasonably flat through impact and the right wrist should be bent. But TGM goes a lot farther: If you start your takeaway at impact fix, the right wrist could, or perhaps should, be[b][color="#ff0000"] frozen[/color][/b] from fix, through impact and to low point. You can start with the hands lower and the right forearm higher, but it has to be connected somewhere in the back swing and should be frozen from there on. These are some pretty heavy geometrical requirements, and I still don't understand how that can be combined with a snap release, but that's another topic. It can work with a sweep release and it can work exceptionally well on strokes where you apply minimum of wrist cocck / uncock - and it is so easy that even I can do it.

The typical grip for a perfect golf stroke per TGM is a "strong single action grip". That is what would normally be labelled a strong (but not exceptionally so) grip, with both V's pointing somewhere in the region of the right shoulder. Perhaps with the right hand grip more towards the palm of the hand than mainstream to get the right forearm on plane and enable the 90* angle between the two flying wedges.

Hogan had some of that grip strength in his left hand (it was stronger than the illustrations in 5 lessons) but his right hand was much more on top of the shaft than a TGM grip. Which also means that a Frozen, level & bent right wrist and 90* between the flying wedges wasn't in the cards for Hogan. And that would also make the RFP less relevant.
[/quote]

Yes, I'm concerned more of what's in the mind, not what actually happens. I think the actual result or what's happening may be similar, but if you'd look at a moving swing, the overall appearance will change. Maybe that's why so few can look Hoganesque.

What do you or LB think on how Hogan "mentally" do the takeaway, which I think will also "result" to the RFT "movement"? I believe the movement is right on. It perfectly fits in with what BH said/wrote, especially the "keeping the right elbow hardly moving on 1st half of backswing" and "keeping it pointed down all the way to top" and "keeping the elbows/arms close together as possible during the swing"?

You said TGM says something about educated hands?

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='Lefthook' timestamp='1310056777' post='3372019']
[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1310015655' post='3370987']
The right arm shouldnt be bent if your aim is to work on a flat plane. Watch Hogans trigger compression before his swing; not just the rebound from left side, but extension of the arms before the CH moves(pushing down on the handle)

What are your literal references for the RH grip position per TGM? Sounds to me like you're quoting youtube vids of various uncertified instructor's interpretations as opposed to actually reading the book....keyword "perhaps" "frozen" and "level" in regards to the RH wrist. So you throw out abunch of demands that are possible for the RH wrist movements in BS/DS? Weaker grip=less need for forward shaft lean at address/impact. Also means that since shaft lean at address(SSAG) presets baseline to the right that Hogans intended shot shape was not the push draw that some patterns prescribe.
[/quote]


Personally I like a rather straight right arm at address. I was just arguing that Hogan did something very different from TGM RFP.


If you really want to have the right forearm on plane it has consequences for the grip. My references for the TGM left hand grip comes from Lynn Blake. I believe he is as true to the book and the other things handed over from HK as anyone out there. He has explained it and demoed it on numerous occasions, often in relationship with " the flying wedges". If you go to LBG and do your homework you should find some of it. The frozen bent level right wrist is in TGM, chapter 7-3, amongst other places. Some of the other relationships between the RFP, educated hands, flying wedges, grip etc aren't spelled out in the book in one place. You have to do quite some studying to see that it's there. TGM is a hard read...

You can't put your right hand on top of the grip like Hogan does if you want to have the right forearm on plane as described in TGM. Therefore Hogan's grip is in conflict with an RFP backstroke.

You were questioning my knowledge of TGM. I have studied the yellow book the extent that it has started to fall apart. I have been a member of LBG since it was launched. I didn't start writing posts there until I figured I was beginning to understand a little about TGM. That took about 3-4 years. I am a fairly well regarded contributor at LBG by now and I have tested my own understanding of some of the core concepts in TGM against some of the greatest TGM experts. I am not married to TGM. And I don't regard myself as a TGM expert. But I know it better than most who speak about it. If you haven't understood the point with the frozen, bent, level right wrist you haven't even gotten started.



Hogan's ball flight was btw on the low side. So he had more forward shaft lean at impact than most. Quite the opposite of what you implied with your "weak grip enables less shaft lean" observation. That observation would perhaps be valid for a flipper but not for a ball striker of Hogan's caliber.
[/quote]

Can't BH still have low ball flight without forward shaft lean? I mean, isn't low ball flight also a result of path, approach (shallow) and plane? So he could be flipping biscuits and still have low ball flight and we wouldnt notice it..lol Well maybe that's what the open clubface is for...lol which is how open, 5degrees?...lol

As to weak right hand grip...since right is more on top...how could it prevent forward shaft lean if it's on top more? Maybe that's why Hogan put it more on top (v pointing at chin right?), si he would have freedom to adjust the clubface, shaft lean at impact (at same timeallowing for tremendous lag before impact)?

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1310074145' post='3372872']
[quote name='Lefthook' timestamp='1310056777' post='3372019']Hogan's ball flight was btw on the low side. So he had more forward shaft lean at impact than most. Quite the opposite of what you implied with your "weak grip enables less shaft lean" observation. That observation would perhaps be valid for a flipper but not for a ball striker of Hogan's caliber.
[/quote]

I can't play with weak right hand grip and have a low ball flight (with lots of shaft lien). I am not disagreeing with you, I actually agree with you on this, but how did he do this without having a wide open face. His right wrist at impact does not look out of the oridinary either.
[/quote]

Thats the thing. Interpretations on ball flight with current equipment are different than analysis of Hogan with equipment in his time. More forward shaft lean than most...golfers in his time? golfers present day?

Maybe shaft lean is a bad term. How about where the butt of the club points at impact...and then youre talking about AOA vs golfball/equipment setup.

You cant say that somebody with 50 yr old equipment had a low flight [b]and thus[/b] had more shaft lean than "most". IMO its just not a very practical application of deductive reasoning

[Lefthook]

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1310082301' post='3373152']
What do you or LB think on how Hogan "mentally" do the takeaway, which I think will also "result" to the RFT "movement"? I believe the movement is right on. It perfectly fits in with what BH said/wrote, especially the "keeping the right elbow hardly moving on 1st half of backswing" and "keeping it pointed down all the way to top" and "keeping the elbows/arms close together as possible during the swing"?

You said TGM says something about educated hands?
[/quote]

I wouldn't know what LB thinks about this. I believe Yoda shared more of his deep thoughts between 2004-2007 than he does now. Now I think he has simplified the message and is more conserned with helping people play better than to really understand TGM. So if you want to know more about LB's thoughts about the golf stroke you should search the archives in LBG. It's a gold mine!

I know that Hogan was a bit disappointed when TGM came out. HK and Hogan had a few conversations and TGM didn't quite present thing according to Hogan's view of things I remember correct. But HK was on a mission where he tried to integrate all kinds of strokes and ad hoc theories into one framework so it is understandable that he pissed off a few "my way" guys in the process.

LB looks very Hogan like face on late in the down stroke. Almost better than Hogan. It is very impressive. I haven't seen them side by side down the line, but my guess would be that both have good lag pressure through impact but that Hogan swings flatter and holds the pressure for a tad longer. You should be able to find some side by side photos over at LBG.

I believe that Hogan emphasized the movement of his left hand in the back stroke as said earlier in this thread. I heard or read that in an interview. And there are swingers who do something similar - even among the TGM followers. I also know - from watching a lot of slomo video of Hogan's back swing in Slicefixer's studio, that Hogan started to move his grip before the club head moved. Or at least that he was leading with the handle and lagging with the club head in the start of the takeaway. Like a mini swing to get the club head going.

HK had figured out that there really was no need to have any motion with the right wrist in the golf stroke. It could be frozen from address to low point. Instead you use the right elbow to match the movement of the left arm and the left wrist. If you build a stroke around that you take away quite a few degrees of freedom that tends to complicate things. LB says he keeps his right wrist frozen throughout the stroke but to me it feels like I can only do that in combination with a sweep release. That's a very gradual release that starts early. And based on video material I'd say it looks like even LB adds some right wrist bend and / or wrist **** to enable a snap release.

I like the concept of the TGM flying wedges but I am not convinced that it can be taken literally. So I tend to think of the frozen wrist as a quiet right wrist. There is btw a lot of quiet right wrist in Slicefixer's swing as well. His 9-3 drill is all about maintaining the right wrist bend all the way to the finish. And since his model is very much based on Hogan I'd say this is the case with Hogan's swing too. So a lot of things add up here as long as they are not taken too biblical.

[Lefthook]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1310091043' post='3373513']
Thats the thing. Interpretations on ball flight with current equipment are different than analysis of Hogan with equipment in his time. More forward shaft lean than most...golfers in his time? golfers present day?

Maybe shaft lean is a bad term. How about where the butt of the club points at impact...and then youre talking about AOA vs golfball/equipment setup.

You cant say that somebody with 50 yr old equipment had a low flight [b]and thus[/b] had more shaft lean than "most". IMO its just not a very practical application of deductive reasoning
[/quote]


Hogan was recognized as having a low ball flight in his own era.....

[KOC]

Sorry guys....I made the video. I would like to say something......

[i]Did Hogan really do this?[/i]



Yes, you can see in this clip, only this clip, Hogan used his right arm, esp. the forearm, the biceps did the lifting…and did Hogan really do this? I am not going to argue for other clips….haha



I regretted to put David’s voice to the silent clip….yet it is only my own take...a perfect description to me.



[i]RFT is a backswing technique in which the shoulders are not turned[/i]

[size="3"] [/size]

It is correct only….in case of basic motion or golfers who don’t get the pivot involve in the golf swing. Interestingly, Homer asked golfers to practice with increasing Pivot motion using the Right Forearm step by step…. Page 27



How many times Homer used the term Shoulder turn? Homer disliked shoulder turn? It is disruptive only when the “shoulder turn” which is too flat and or too low!

[svsvincenzo]

KOC, what did the 2 persons listening to Hogan in that vid has to say about it? What did Hogan actually said according to them? Unless we get that info, I think we are all just guessing (intelligently of course..lol). Heck, Hogan may have said..."If you do this, you're toast...your hands would have to pull your arms, your arms pull the shoulders..your shoulders pull the hips..ain't that sh1t?..that's not what I said and wrote..so go slap yourselves and read my book..." rofl

[MizunoJoe]

KOC

Here's Homer Kelley's own words: "If you have a shoulder turn takeaway, you have immediately gone into pivot control hands". Pivot control of the hands is like cancer in the TGM world! So no, Homer didn't like the shoulder turn takeaway. Lynn Blake says it is "disruptive".

[KevCarter]

IMO, from my studies, the shoulders still turn, and there is a pivot. Educated hands and RFT simply dictate the path of the club shaft and head in takeaway, and the shoulders react to that path rather than dictate it. I believe Mr. Kelley was saying that if you employ a takeaway controlled by the shoulders, it will simply get too flat and off plane (per 1-L-6.) It is a much simpler procedure to dictate plane using the hands and RFT.

[quote][b]1-L-6[/b]. The Clubshaft always points at the Plane Line except when they are parallel to each other.[/quote]

Also IMO, Mr. Blake's genius is in combining the foundation of Homer Kelley's work with the pivot principles of the MacDonald drills. These drills look a little silly at first blush, but if studied and employed, they become brilliant.

In speaking of his preferred plane angle:

[quote][b]10-6-B TURNED SHOULDER[/b]
This reference point is primarily the point reached by the Right Shoulder after a Flat Backstroke Shoulder Turn. But any other controlled Shoulder Turn can also provide an acceptable reference point. See 10-13-0. This Plane Angle has far better performance characteristics than any other because any Plane Angle Shift is very hazardous. This procedure does not refer to the disruptive Shoulder Turn Takeaway – which is always too “Flat” and/or too “Low” making a Plane Angle Shift mandatory and usually unintentional and unsuspected. Study 7-3 and 10-24-F.[/quote]

The work of Mr. Kelley and Mr. Blake may not be for everybody, but it has opened my eyes to how the golf swing works and it is the best way of learning for me and have been very effective in my teaching. The videos put together by KOC have been a huge help with my studies.

Kevin

[KevCarter]

Unfinished Thoughts


[quote][b]STARTING OVER WITH G.O.L.F. - HOMER KELLEY[/b]

"If I were starting to play golf, this is what I would concentrate on. It's what it all boils down to. It's even simpler than The Triad."

• At Fix, establish your Flat, Level and Vertical Left Wrist and your On Plane Right Forearm Angle of Approach (7-3).
• At Start Up, take your Hands Up, Back, and In on the Plane of your Right Forearm.
• Through Impact, return to the Fix Hand Location and the established Right Forearm Angle of Approach.

From that foundation, focus on the imperatives and essentials while monitoring the pressure points. Sounds simple, and it works for me. I'm not sure yet if this simplicity can totally work in with my teaching, but I believe anyone can master basic hitting no matter what their physical condition. [b]As players get more advanced, they add Power Accumulators until we get to 4 Barrel Hitting[/b].
[/quote]

From Mr. Kelley not long before he passed. Unfortunately these thoughts were not finished, and never made it to a revision of the book. I believe Lynn Blakes teaching incorporates these thought extremely well. Again, not for everybody, and lots of great ways to play, but I use and enjoy these principles...

Kevin

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1310198469' post='3376714']
KOC

Here's Homer Kelley's own words: "If you have a shoulder turn takeaway, you have immediately gone into pivot control hands". Pivot control of the hands is like cancer in the TGM world! So no, Homer didn't like the shoulder turn takeaway. Lynn Blake says it is "disruptive".
[/quote]

Did HK specifically related the RFT, educated hands or other mon-shoulder dominated method to Hogan?

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='kevcarter ' timestamp='1310210939' post='3376800']
Unfinished Thoughts


[quote][b]STARTING OVER WITH G.O.L.F. - HOMER KELLEY[/b]

"If I were starting to play golf, this is what I would concentrate on. It's what it all boils down to. It's even simpler than The Triad."

• At Fix, establish your Flat, Level and Vertical Left Wrist and your On Plane Right Forearm Angle of Approach (7-3).
• At Start Up, take your Hands Up, Back, and In on the Plane of your Right Forearm.
• Through Impact, return to the Fix Hand Location and the established Right Forearm Angle of Approach.

From that foundation, focus on the imperatives and essentials while monitoring the pressure points. Sounds simple, and it works for me. I'm not sure yet if this simplicity can totally work in with my teaching, but I believe anyone can master basic hitting no matter what their physical condition. [b]As players get more advanced, they add Power Accumulators until we get to 4 Barrel Hitting[/b].
[/quote]

From Mr. Kelley not long before he passed. Unfortunately these thoughts were not finished, and never made it to a revision of the book. I believe Lynn Blakes teaching incorporates these thought extremely well. Again, not for everybody, and lots of great ways to play, but I use and enjoy these principles...

Kevin
[/quote]

Thanks for those..

[MizunoJoe]

Some further points. You can use the STT to throw the hands anywhere you wish and even if you don't choose where to throw them, you know where they have been thrown to by the pressure in them. You can then direct that pressure with the pivot on the DS. The point of the STT is to fully coil for max power.

So I disagree with HK that pivot control of the hands on the BS is a bad thing. On the other hand, pivot control of the hands on the DS is disastrous.

[KevCarter]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1310233951' post='3377342']
Some further points. You can use the STT to throw the hands anywhere you wish and even if you don't choose where to throw them, you know where they have been thrown to by the pressure in them. You can then direct that pressure with the pivot on the DS. The point of the STT is to fully coil for max power.

So I disagree with HK that pivot control of the hands on the BS is a bad thing. On the other hand, pivot control of the hands on the DS is disastrous.
[/quote]

Power vs. precision. Lots of options, gotta play the game with [b]your [/b]swing.

Kevin

[Sean2]

But couldn't RFT cause the golfer to pick up the club? How does one prevent that?

Thanks!

[KevCarter]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1310240621' post='3377540']
But couldn't RFT cause the golfer to pick up the club? How does one prevent that?

Thanks!
[/quote]

David Orr did a really good video called "the Walrus and the War Chant." Picking it ip would be too much War Chant. He teaches how to properly blend the two. Search for it on YouTube. I miss his great vids!

Kevin

[Sean2]

[quote name='kevcarter ' timestamp='1310241151' post='3377554']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1310240621' post='3377540']
But couldn't RFT cause the golfer to pick up the club? How does one prevent that?

Thanks!
[/quote]

David Orr did a really good video called "the Walrus and the War Chant." Picking it ip would be too much War Chant. He teaches how to properly blend the two. Search for it on YouTube. I miss his great vids!

Kevin
[/quote]
Thanks Kevin. :-)

[KOC]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1310198469' post='3376714']
KOC

Here's Homer Kelley's own words: "If you have a shoulder turn takeaway, you have immediately gone into pivot control hands". Pivot control of the hands is like cancer in the TGM world! So no, Homer didn't like the shoulder turn takeaway. Lynn Blake says it is "disruptive".
[/quote]



Dear Joe,


Would you be kind to let me know where to find Homer said so?

[KOC]

Dear Kevin,


If golfers just pay attention to shoulder turn or pivot and end up swinging up thier arms and hands at the position like Hogan, that is great and I am sure many good golfers or teachers can do or teach them how to do....but

IN MY OWN CASE, I ended up swinging around my arms too much inside and underplane! I am stupid! I need to train my zone1 first....i.e. my pivot turn and then I also train my zone 2 and 3, i.e. arms and hands, I managed to swing the club on plane.


Pivot controlled hands vs Hand controlled pivot do not mean to me which one control which one....it is just which part you pay more attention or monitoring.


Thank you your kind words to me......cheers


KOC

[Squish]

Two things in the above photo stand out for me, and is what I have done to get to that position is to focus on the elbows.
It is done at take away pointing the left elbow targetward from a relaxed position. and most important keeping the right elbow pointing down.
The inward medial rotation of the left humerus at the waggle, is left arm control going back.
The right elbow is The crucial pivot point. I always think [b]keep the right elbow down[/b] throughout the swing.
Both to the top and into impact I think pointing it down vs. putting or packing it inside, to the side, or in front; the pivot takes care of all that.
To me both wrists are pronatated at the top, then supinated through impact.
I feel all that arm hand action is hands led. Letting the elbows and shoulders react into a state of workable tension,
lagging that entire torqued assembly into impact, shoulders against the forward hip rotation.

Finding those two elbow positions will immediately snap one into the position hogan demonstrates in the first video.

[KevCarter]

This is what I think envision Right Forearm Takeaway as looking like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZKrrj3Aq2o&playnext=1&list=PLEE1E9D86E0EFF318

Kevin

[Squish]

[quote name='kevcarter ' timestamp='1310307156' post='3379055']
This is what I think envision Right Forearm Takeaway as looking like.

Kevin
[/quote]



To me that is dead on.

[KevCarter]

[quote name='Squish' timestamp='1310299574' post='3378908']
Two things in the above photo stand out for me, and is what I have done to get to that position is to focus on the elbows.
It is done at take away pointing the left elbow targetward from a relaxed position. [b]and most important keeping the right elbow pointing down.[/b]
The inward medial rotation of the left humerus at the waggle, is left arm control going back.
The right elbow is The crucial pivot point. I always think [b]keep the right elbow down throughout the swing.[/b]
Both to the top and into impact I think pointing it down vs. putting or packing it inside, to the side, or in front; the pivot takes care of all that.
To me both wrists are pronatated at the top, then supinated through impact.
I feel all that arm hand action is hands led. Letting the elbows and shoulders react into a state of workable tension,
lagging that entire torqued assembly into impact, shoulders against the forward hip rotation.

Finding those two elbow positions will immediately snap one into the position hogan demonstrates in the first video.
[/quote]

[b]and most important keeping the right elbow pointing down throughout the swing.[/b]

I like that A LOT. I hope you don't mind if I steal that exact concept and use it in my future teaching. Hard to believe I've ot heard it put that way before, or perhaps haven't understood it so clearly...

Nice post Squish!

Kevin

[Squish]

Shure can Kev, it works for me.

It is really right shoulder adduction coupled with a scapula dig.
But the simple thought of pointing it down does it.
Moving the right elbows pivot point will either open or close the face above or below plane.
Starts with the grip.

[KevCarter]

[quote name='Squish' timestamp='1310309434' post='3379113']

It is really right shoulder adduction coupled with a scapula dig.

[/quote]

That's way past my pay grade and why I usually listen rather than post in the Hogan Forum. I really enjoy listening to and learning from you guys...

Kevin

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='KOC' timestamp='1310293693' post='3378856']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1310198469' post='3376714']
KOC

Here's Homer Kelley's own words: "If you have a shoulder turn takeaway, you have immediately gone into pivot control hands". Pivot control of the hands is like cancer in the TGM world! So no, Homer didn't like the shoulder turn takeaway. Lynn Blake says it is "disruptive".
[/quote]



Dear Joe,


Would you be kind to let me know where to find Homer said so?
[/quote]

Hi KOC,

This quote was posted in a thread called 'right forearm "pickup"' in The Golf Machine - Basic section of the Lynn Blake Lesson Tee. It was posted by a member called lagster.

Here's the link http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=428&highlight=Shoulder+turn+takeaway

[MizunoJoe]

KOC,

Someone in the link I posted above says the quote was made by Homer in Lynn's Master Class of 1982.

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='kevcarter ' timestamp='1310307156' post='3379055']
This is what I think envision Right Forearm Takeaway as looking like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZKrrj3Aq2o&playnext=1&list=PLEE1E9D86E0EFF318

Kevin
[/quote]

Is it possible Hogan do same results (same look from outside) but do it with a left forearm takeaway mentally/consciously (remember he said you must do it with the left arm)? I think the trick is how to do that with the left arm driving (mental/consciousness on left arm) but at same time LETTING the right forearm/elbow behave that way (like RFT), especially with the very very fast swing tempo of hogan even in bs...try doing the RFT with a very fast bs as fast as hogan and it's very difficult, especially with a heavy club like hogan...I feel there's definitely should be help/effort with the left arm (or part of it..) at least on the beginning or before mid-bs...in short, maybe it's BOTH LFT and RFT?..

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1310354890' post='3380885']
[quote name='kevcarter ' timestamp='1310307156' post='3379055']
This is what I think envision Right Forearm Takeaway as looking like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZKrrj3Aq2o&playnext=1&list=PLEE1E9D86E0EFF318

Kevin
[/quote]

Is it possible Hogan do same results (same look from outside) but do it with a left forearm takeaway mentally/consciously (remember he said you must do it with the left arm)? I think the trick is how to do that with the left arm driving (mental/consciousness on left arm) but at same time LETTING the right forearm/elbow behave that way (like RFT), especially with the very very fast swing tempo of hogan even in bs...try doing the RFT with a very fast bs as fast as hogan and it's very difficult, especially with a heavy club like hogan...I feel there's definitely should be help/effort with the left arm (or part of it..) at least on the beginning or before mid-bs...in short, maybe it's BOTH LFT and RFT?..
[/quote]

Consider also that hogan said you should feel the tips of right thumb and index finger off the shaft..it's darn difficult to do the RFT very fast by itself (without help from left arm/hand) bec to so RFT you need those "pincer" fingers. Can be done with 2 middle fingers yes, but very hogan fast? So I doubt hogan did RFT alone/mainly...