Hogan's left knee

[Staffer]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1321900232' post='3831665']
[quote name='Staffer' timestamp='1321899649' post='3831609']
[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1321889314' post='3830817']
Left knee and hands drop + triangle rotation to flatten the shaft. Left knee also takes hips toward the target a bit... but...
[/quote]


Nope, its a push with the ball of the right foot, and flattening is a result, not an intention.

Just leave the monitor for an hour and try it.

=)
[/quote]

I think that push, as rotating push is there all the time. It starts at setup and continues through the whole swing.

Flattering is not a result. I know many players with good footwork and good rotation of hips, but they don't get that. I know quite well what muscles are used to get that.

I'd like to see even one player who says it's automatic result so post good quality video from dtl view and show that they got it. I asked WB that by PM also but he didn't want to show it. So please send me one of yours to show that you really got it. OK?
[/quote]

Could you explain that first sentence? IMO, the backswing coils back onto the ball of the right foot, gradually moving weight forward towards the toes. After that there is only one way to go, and that is to move the weight to the left by pushing of the toes, and ball, of the right foot. The hips will move left, and rotate, as a result.

Beginning with the left knee usually moves hips too far left and straightens the right leg. This makes it impossible to rotate fast enough and causes a stall and cross-over release.

You dont need my video. Just read 5L (page 92 in the 2nd swedish edition (1965), only one I have access to), and trust that Hogan very well knew what he did intentionally and what he didnt do intentionally.

[dap]

Yet another thread infected by teeace and about to disintegrate into another dirty brawl.Why am I not surprised?

This guy is like a virus that no antiviral software has a solution to.It has now spread out of Finland to worldwide.Yuk.

[TeeAce]

[quote name='Staffer' timestamp='1321901586' post='3831799']
[
Could you explain that first sentence?
[/quote]

It's pre torque thing that few are talking about. Player tries to rotate the right foot clockwise, but because of friction it doesn't move, but it moves the inner circle instead. I think thats what Trevino wanted to tell Tiger few years ago.

And that you can't see from video, but from the front cover of 5L Thats the move how many of the greats has get their right heel come up that way instead of rotating out.

[Staffer]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1321905336' post='3832167']
[quote name='Staffer' timestamp='1321901586' post='3831799']
[
Could you explain that first sentence?
[/quote]

It's pre torque thing that few are talking about. Player tries to rotate the right foot clockwise, but because of friction it doesn't move, but it moves the inner circle instead. I think thats what Trevino wanted to tell Tiger few years ago.

And that you can't see from video, but from the front cover of 5L Thats the move how many of the greats has get their right heel come up that way instead of rotating out.
[/quote]

Well, I am afraid that my edition has a different front cover.


But the torque is correct. Which is why I still wonder why there is no current tour player, that I am aware of, who use the same setup as Hogan. Some get the feet right...but the knee´s?

[6enh09an]

[quote name='williambenjamin11' timestamp='1321889779' post='3830853']
[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1321884008' post='3830437']
[quote name='williambenjamin11' timestamp='1321882516' post='3830357']

No, don't think so. I get you loud and clear right at this very day. Actually what you're saying are my exact beliefs when I was a beginner to Hogan.


[/quote]

Son. you are still beginner. In everything. Until you see those two opposite thing he described, you will be lost with your understanding. Until you really understand the geometry how it fits to everything he said if he would use word bow and cup, instead of supination and pronation, you will be in the dark side. After that you can maybe even understand how much left shoulder joint rotation effect sot the club. Until then.... go back to basics and try to brake 80.
[/quote]

Don't call me son, coz that's impossible. My father is way way way far ahead of you, you'll think your still a sperm. Plus, it's physically impossible, unless you're capable of bearing a son at 10 years old. Lol

To the separation, actually Hogan himself said the turning of hips (which again he described as rotary-lateral way of turning) while forgetting about the shoulders arms will PROPERLY DELAY the upper body and it's muscles. What, Hogan is wrong again?

To the beating 80? I'm a +5, and in a 7k plus yards course. And I've just been playing for 9 years, and got a day job way way way intellectually challenging than yours.

The actor is correct actually. You've been had.

Joe is scratch. Eightiron is under scratch. Lol So, you've been had. Lol.

HG101 is the 80+ player, but has the knowledge and understanding of Hogan..and fast...lol

But this is just a forum, so don't take this seriously, geeez... Unless of course you have no life, unlike the above posters who's just in here for the fun.

As I've said, YOU'VE BEEN HAD! Lol
[/quote]

Please. SHUT UP!!!

[6enh09an]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1321889314' post='3830817']
[quote name='6enh09an' timestamp='1321888146' post='3830725']
[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1321884381' post='3830449']
[quote name='6enh09an' timestamp='1321883288' post='3830391']

Sorry for asking for more. Can you say it in step by step process? From top, what to do step by step up to hit the ball?
[/quote]

No I can't. There is too many things happening side to side and it's impossible to say at what moment exactly each of them started and how long last. There is things that accelerate and decelerate and you can't say from video what happens.
[/quote]

Ok. Can I just ask step by step?

If I am in actual swinging, what should I do to start the ds?
[/quote]

Left knee and hands drop + triangle rotation to flatten the shaft. Left knee also takes hips toward the target a bit... but...

IMO there is no exact time when downswing starts, so it's even more complicated. Few years ago when we were building 4DSwing UI, we spent some time to find that point. There wasn't, so we had to define it some way and for us it's now when the hand speed goes zero for certain direction.

In real life everything continues drawing circles and nothing really stops. Too many people see it back and forward, which it's not at all.
[/quote]

Try this earlier, with 200 balls. I feel my swing is become very slower. It is easy doing in slow or practice swing, but actual swing difficult, if I can swing is slow. By the time I finish doing all you said, my club is already 8 am/pm, so I have little already space to get momentum to rotate my body fast.

Anything I am doing wrong? Or any I am not doing you did not say?

[williambenjamin11]

[quote name='6enh09an' timestamp='1321929593' post='3834341']
[quote name='williambenjamin11' timestamp='1321889779' post='3830853']
[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1321884008' post='3830437']
[quote name='williambenjamin11' timestamp='1321882516' post='3830357']

No, don't think so. I get you loud and clear right at this very day. Actually what you're saying are my exact beliefs when I was a beginner to Hogan.


[/quote]

Son. you are still beginner. In everything. Until you see those two opposite thing he described, you will be lost with your understanding. Until you really understand the geometry how it fits to everything he said if he would use word bow and cup, instead of supination and pronation, you will be in the dark side. After that you can maybe even understand how much left shoulder joint rotation effect sot the club. Until then.... go back to basics and try to brake 80.
[/quote]

Don't call me son, coz that's impossible. My father is way way way far ahead of you, you'll think your still a sperm. Plus, it's physically impossible, unless you're capable of bearing a son at 10 years old. Lol

To the separation, actually Hogan himself said the turning of hips (which again he described as rotary-lateral way of turning) while forgetting about the shoulders arms will PROPERLY DELAY the upper body and it's muscles. What, Hogan is wrong again?

To the beating 80? I'm a +5, and in a 7k plus yards course. And I've just been playing for 9 years, and got a day job way way way intellectually challenging than yours.

The actor is correct actually. You've been had.

Joe is scratch. Eightiron is under scratch. Lol So, you've been had. Lol.

HG101 is the 80+ player, but has the knowledge and understanding of Hogan..and fast...lol

But this is just a forum, so don't take this seriously, geeez... Unless of course you have no life, unlike the above posters who's just in here for the fun.

As I've said, YOU'VE BEEN HAD! Lol
[/quote]

Please. SHUT UP!!!
[/quote]

So, what now, there's a gag order on me now huh?! From the hackers party?

You're being had! Lol

[williambenjamin11]

[quote name='6enh09an' timestamp='1321930690' post='3834467']
[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1321889314' post='3830817']
[quote name='6enh09an' timestamp='1321888146' post='3830725']
[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1321884381' post='3830449']
[quote name='6enh09an' timestamp='1321883288' post='3830391']

Sorry for asking for more. Can you say it in step by step process? From top, what to do step by step up to hit the ball?
[/quote]

No I can't. There is too many things happening side to side and it's impossible to say at what moment exactly each of them started and how long last. There is things that accelerate and decelerate and you can't say from video what happens.
[/quote]

Ok. Can I just ask step by step?

If I am in actual swinging, what should I do to start the ds?
[/quote]

Left knee and hands drop + triangle rotation to flatten the shaft. Left knee also takes hips toward the target a bit... but...

IMO there is no exact time when downswing starts, so it's even more complicated. Few years ago when we were building 4DSwing UI, we spent some time to find that point. There wasn't, so we had to define it some way and for us it's now when the hand speed goes zero for certain direction.

In real life everything continues drawing circles and nothing really stops. Too many people see it back and forward, which it's not at all.
[/quote]

Try this earlier, with 200 balls. I feel my swing is become very slower. It is easy doing in slow or practice swing, but actual swing difficult, if I can swing is slow. By the time I finish doing all you said, my club is already 8 am/pm, so I have little already space to get momentum to rotate my body fast.

Anything I am doing wrong? Or any I am not doing you did not say?
[/quote]

Lol. Good luck copying his all-time hack swing. But don't worry, you'll finally get that accuracy and distance combined in just 20years. Lol Good for business though..

[TeeAce]

[quote name='williambenjamin11' timestamp='1321934023' post='3834727']

Lol. Good luck copying his all-time hack swing. But don't worry, you'll finally get that accuracy and distance combined in just 20years. Lol Good for business though..
[/quote]

WB I just checked that funny video again and I'm not sure the actor meant to say morons.. I think they really knew and meant to say MORADS, Those simply people

By the way I don't like anyone to copy my swing. People can maybe copy the swings of my students. Yes there are still few that are over zero handicaps, but they are still young. Even younger than you. 13-14 years old. You know it takes easily here 4 years to get scratch because we got decent playing time only 4 months / year.

But anyway good luck to you and hope you someday get that kind of swing that you can show for us also. And tell your friends it doesn't help to make another nick here, because some flaws in writing tells who it is...

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1321797311' post='3826297']
WB or others: You didn't answer my question with hogans transition photo. What is the first move there?
[/quote]

Pulling PP2 which flattens the shaft and sets up the uncupping/bowing of the lead wrist and allows the right elbow/shoulder to drop; no conscious UD or all that...just a goal of hitting the ball with muscle tension in the right places. I remember reading the "Hogan's Disorder" thread a few years back. Leverage the club correctly from the top and the right elbow just gets there...that's not a conscious move either. Club flattens and pivot becomes automatic. Hogan had tiny hips and structure. He didnt need to turn anything or start down with the hips. The smaller the structure the easier it is to move and the less muscle it will take to move it. Saying "start down with the lower body" is to most other golfers IMO. Backshifting transition is momentum from the backswing and recoil.

What do I know? I play with a Strong Single Action Underhand grip. Weak grips hurt/scare me and I cringe when I see somebody strike a ball with one.

Great thread here

[williambenjamin11]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1321942716' post='3835161']
[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1321797311' post='3826297']
WB or others: You didn't answer my question with hogans transition photo. What is the first move there?
[/quote]

Pulling PP2 which flattens the shaft and sets up the uncupping/bowing of the lead wrist and allows the right elbow/shoulder to drop; no conscious UD or all that...just a goal of hitting the ball with muscle tension in the right places. I remember reading the "Hogan's Disorder" thread a few years back. Leverage the club correctly from the top and the right elbow just gets there...that's not a conscious move either. Club flattens and pivot becomes automatic. Hogan had tiny hips and structure. He didnt need to turn anything or start down with the hips. The smaller the structure the easier it is to move and the less muscle it will take to move it. Saying "start down with the lower body" is to most other golfers IMO. Backshifting transition is momentum from the backswing and recoil.

What do I know? I play with a Strong Single Action Underhand grip. Weak grips hurt/scare me and I cringe when I see somebody strike a ball with one.

Great thread here
[/quote]

How about PP #1? Goes very well with PP #2, preserves PA #3 angle, and allows you to start right away with PA #3 roll transfer power (debatable, but PP #3 you can use as well) without prematurely or wrongfully using PA #2 velocity power? Remember, HK said this is the Secret to Golf.

Our friend Teeace here focuses on this velocity power, so does everything he can to prevent the flips and lefts. And he cited Bradley Hughes to support his theories in the other thread. Doesn't realize Brad hates velocity power. Lol He didn't understand a word of what Brad said, again. Lol

[TeeAce]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1321942716' post='3835161']
[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1321797311' post='3826297']
WB or others: You didn't answer my question with hogans transition photo. What is the first move there?
[/quote]

Pulling PP2 which flattens the shaft and sets up the uncupping/bowing of the lead wrist and allows the right elbow/shoulder to drop; no conscious UD or all that...just a goal of hitting the ball with muscle tension in the right places. I remember reading the "Hogan's Disorder" thread a few years back. Leverage the club correctly from the top and the right elbow just gets there...that's not a conscious move either. Club flattens and pivot becomes automatic.
[/quote]

When talking about own swing or taking 100 different people to observe we need to think differently, and that might be the biggest difference with opinions of teacher and players. I have to think that via those who I teach, not by me.

Some little science here:

To move one point there must be action or reaction. Reactions can be mental of by forces, and when they are mental, there is also action connected to them. For example flattening of the shaft can be made by muscles or because there is still force to that direction and the other parts of the body start moving to another direction, it can do it automatically, but it have to be programmed to our computer that we allow it to happen, and by that we go back to muscles again. What makes it happen and what allows it happen?

At transition to get shaft flatten and right elbow move as it does in Hogans case, there has to be external rotation of the right shoulder. That rotation is made by muscles around the right scapula, and that might be action or reaction to the mass of the club and hands. It really got nothing to do with hips, because those groups of muscles got no connection to each other. When observing that from outside, it's easy to say that it happens because hips start to rotate back, but that's not biomechanics reality, because if you do it from stationarity position, it doesn't happen. It can happen automatically there if your right shoulder is already making that external rotation and you let it continue. That's not the case with 99% of people. 99% of students I see got the idea of opposite muscular actions for bsw and dsw. So they really try to change the direction when they should learn to continue moving to one direction with some parts when other parts change their direction. If they want to progress, they have to learn that first, but if they got totally wrong image about the triangle and elbows move in dsw, how they could? First of all they need to understand that that triangle is rotating that way and then they need to want that.

At that time it have to be conscious move, because they are not programmed for that, I can say they are programmed totally to opposite and internal rotation of the back shoulder. Both in bsw and dsw. And big part of that image is created by telling that they should close the club face by rotating it by arms instead of the body.

[TeeAce]

[quote name='williambenjamin11' timestamp='1321945538' post='3835235']
Doesn't realize Brad hates velocity power. Lol He didn't understand a word of what Brad said, again. Lol
[/quote]

WB... you really better not talking my understanding of anything when you are at that level. I understand that you feel it hard to follow, because I'm moving so much deeper than you, but stop making fool of yourself. Remember I started to teach when you were just baby playing with toys.

I understand Bradley perfectly and we have been discussing about things few times. He also got access to 4Dswing data and understands something about that.

It's funny you lifted up that Bradley hates velocity power, when I've said exactly same in this thread. Acceleration instead of velocity.

[TeeAce]

[quote name='williambenjamin11' timestamp='1321946197' post='3835251']

4months a year, from dawn till midnight right? So what, is that a disadvantage or what? And you forced to practice in the 8 winter months, now what? Advantage or disadvantage? Lol Any finn
[/quote]

Advantage for technical ball striking, big disadvantage for playing and scoring > handicaps. Long grass on fairways, slow greens ... need to get them out here before they are 18, rather earlier.

[williambenjamin11]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1321940994' post='3835117']
[quote name='williambenjamin11' timestamp='1321934023' post='3834727']

Lol. Good luck copying his all-time hack swing. But don't worry, you'll finally get that accuracy and distance combined in just 20years. Lol Good for business though..
[/quote]

WB I just checked that funny video again and I'm not sure the actor meant to say morons.. I think they really knew and meant to say MORADS, Those simply people

By the way I don't like anyone to copy my swing. People can maybe copy the swings of my students. Yes there are still few that are over zero handicaps, but they are still young. Even younger than you. 13-14 years old. You know it takes easily here 4 years to get scratch because we got decent playing time only 4 months / year.

But anyway good luck to you and hope you someday get that kind of swing that you can show for us also. And tell your friends it doesn't help to make another nick here, because some flaws in writing tells who it is...
[/quote]

Wow, nice...they rhyme huh? Intelligent of you. In case you haven't noticed, MORAD is considered the best by the best, both ACCOMPLISHED players and teachers alike, including the golf GODS... it has the collective knowledge, analysis, experience (both playing and teaching) at the highest level, over the years...no, decades..that it would make you look like an infant who wouldn't survive without mother's care..

4months a year, from dawn till midnight right? So what, is that a disadvantage or what? And you forced to practice in the 8 winter months, now what? Advantage or disadvantage? Lol But still, 30 years of this, and you still got a hack swing huh? Hell, yours is the worst swing of a teacher I've seen, in and out of wrx, ever... Lol Good luck to your students...and yeah I know your job...HG divulged it in the other thread...lol Its even in your signature, dude. You've got to use 4D and be the pro on a course closed 8 months of the year and you think you got Hogan and everyone else respectfully disagreeing with you are wrong? Grow up.

[TeeAce]

[quote name='williambenjamin11' timestamp='1321948570' post='3835299']


4months a year, from dawn till midnight right? So what, is that a disadvantage or what? And you forced to practice in the 8 winter months, now what? Advantage or disadvantage? Lol But still, 30 years of this, and you still got a hack swing huh? Hell, yours is the worst swing of a teacher I've seen, in and out of wrx, ever... Lol Good luck to your students...and yeah I know your job...HG divulged it in the other thread...lol Its even in your signature, dude. You've got to use 4D and be the pro on a course closed 8 months of the year and you think you got Hogan and everyone else respectfully disagreeing with you are wrong? Grow up.
[/quote]

So you don't know my job. And everyone is not really disagree with me about things. There is just few of you who don't understand.

Talking about my swing is 5 years old level thing, so who to grow up?

[moehogan]

[quote name='williambenjamin11' timestamp='1321948570' post='3835299']
[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1321940994' post='3835117']
[quote name='williambenjamin11' timestamp='1321934023' post='3834727']

Lol. Good luck copying his all-time hack swing. But don't worry, you'll finally get that accuracy and distance combined in just 20years. Lol Good for business though..
[/quote]

WB I just checked that funny video again and I'm not sure the actor meant to say morons.. I think they really knew and meant to say MORADS, Those simply people

By the way I don't like anyone to copy my swing. People can maybe copy the swings of my students. Yes there are still few that are over zero handicaps, but they are still young. Even younger than you. 13-14 years old. You know it takes easily here 4 years to get scratch because we got decent playing time only 4 months / year.

But anyway good luck to you and hope you someday get that kind of swing that you can show for us also. And tell your friends it doesn't help to make another nick here, because some flaws in writing tells who it is...
[/quote]


Wow, nice...they rhyme huh? Intelligent of you. In case you haven't noticed, MORAD is considered the best by the best, both ACCOMPLISHED players and teachers alike, including the golf GODS... it has the collective knowledge, analysis, experience (both playing and teaching) at the highest level, over the years...no, decades..that it would make you look like an infant who wouldn't survive without mother's care..

4months a year, from dawn till midnight right? So what, is that a disadvantage or what? And you forced to practice in the 8 winter months, now what? Advantage or disadvantage? Lol But still, 30 years of this, and you still got a hack swing huh? Hell, yours is the worst swing of a teacher I've seen, in and out of wrx, ever... Lol Good luck to your students...and yeah I know your job...HG divulged it in the other thread...lol Its even in your signature, dude. You've got to use 4D and be the pro on a course closed 8 months of the year and you think you got Hogan and everyone else respectfully disagreeing with you are wrong? Grow up.
[/quote]
WB,

Could you please let us know which major winners in the last twenty years attribute their success to MORAD? Thanks!

mh

[Ezgolfer]

[quote name='moehogan' timestamp='1321961421' post='3835431']
[quote name='williambenjamin11' timestamp='1321948570' post='3835299']
[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1321940994' post='3835117']
[quote name='williambenjamin11' timestamp='1321934023' post='3834727']
Lol. Good luck copying his all-time hack swing. But don't worry, you'll finally get that accuracy and distance combined in just 20years. Lol Good for business though..
[/quote]

WB I just checked that funny video again and I'm not sure the actor meant to say morons.. I think they really knew and meant to say MORADS, Those simply people

By the way I don't like anyone to copy my swing. People can maybe copy the swings of my students. Yes there are still few that are over zero handicaps, but they are still young. Even younger than you. 13-14 years old. You know it takes easily here 4 years to get scratch because we got decent playing time only 4 months / year.

But anyway good luck to you and hope you someday get that kind of swing that you can show for us also. And tell your friends it doesn't help to make another nick here, because some flaws in writing tells who it is...
[/quote]


Wow, nice...they rhyme huh? Intelligent of you. In case you haven't noticed, MORAD is considered the best by the best, both ACCOMPLISHED players and teachers alike, including the golf GODS... it has the collective knowledge, analysis, experience (both playing and teaching) at the highest level, over the years...no, decades..that it would make you look like an infant who wouldn't survive without mother's care..

4months a year, from dawn till midnight right? So what, is that a disadvantage or what? And you forced to practice in the 8 winter months, now what? Advantage or disadvantage? Lol But still, 30 years of this, and you still got a hack swing huh? Hell, yours is the worst swing of a teacher I've seen, in and out of wrx, ever... Lol Good luck to your students...and yeah I know your job...HG divulged it in the other thread...lol Its even in your signature, dude. You've got to use 4D and be the pro on a course closed 8 months of the year and you think you got Hogan and everyone else respectfully disagreeing with you are wrong? Grow up.
[/quote]
WB,

Could you please let us know which major winners in the last twenty years attribute their success to MORAD? Thanks!

mh
[/quote]

And the MORAD god is still struggling at Q school ,whereas his contemporary golfers are about to retire from senior tour ......
http://www.mydesert.com/article/20111109/SPORTS05/311090006/A-diverse-valley-crowd-Q-school

[williambenjamin11]

[quote name='Ezgolfer' timestamp='1321962433' post='3835439']
[quote name='moehogan' timestamp='1321961421' post='3835431']
[quote name='williambenjamin11' timestamp='1321948570' post='3835299']
[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1321940994' post='3835117']
[quote name='williambenjamin11' timestamp='1321934023' post='3834727']
Lol. Good luck copying his all-time hack swing. But don't worry, you'll finally get that accuracy and distance combined in just 20years. Lol Good for business though..
[/quote]

WB I just checked that funny video again and I'm not sure the actor meant to say morons.. I think they really knew and meant to say MORADS, Those simply people

By the way I don't like anyone to copy my swing. People can maybe copy the swings of my students. Yes there are still few that are over zero handicaps, but they are still young. Even younger than you. 13-14 years old. You know it takes easily here 4 years to get scratch because we got decent playing time only 4 months / year.

But anyway good luck to you and hope you someday get that kind of swing that you can show for us also. And tell your friends it doesn't help to make another nick here, because some flaws in writing tells who it is...
[/quote]


Wow, nice...they rhyme huh? Intelligent of you. In case you haven't noticed, MORAD is considered the best by the best, both ACCOMPLISHED players and teachers alike, including the golf GODS... it has the collective knowledge, analysis, experience (both playing and teaching) at the highest level, over the years...no, decades..that it would make you look like an infant who wouldn't survive without mother's care..

4months a year, from dawn till midnight right? So what, is that a disadvantage or what? And you forced to practice in the 8 winter months, now what? Advantage or disadvantage? Lol But still, 30 years of this, and you still got a hack swing huh? Hell, yours is the worst swing of a teacher I've seen, in and out of wrx, ever... Lol Good luck to your students...and yeah I know your job...HG divulged it in the other thread...lol Its even in your signature, dude. You've got to use 4D and be the pro on a course closed 8 months of the year and you think you got Hogan and everyone else respectfully disagreeing with you are wrong? Grow up.
[/quote]
WB,

Could you please let us know which major winners in the last twenty years attribute their success to MORAD? Thanks!

mh
[/quote]

And the MORAD god is still struggling at Q school ,whereas his contemporary golfers are about to retire from senior tour ......
http://www.mydesert.com/article/20111109/SPORTS05/311090006/A-diverse-valley-crowd-Q-school
[/quote]

And how about your boss Teeace? We're talking about ballstriking here, full swing. The tours are almost half putting prowess. Mr. Fats here has said in categorical terms that Mac O'Grady is the BEST. He just helps players secretly, like all his schools/sessions. Nuff said.

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1321946981' post='3835267']

[b] It can happen automatically there if your right shoulder is already making that external rotation and you let it continue. [/b]

At that time it have to be conscious move, because they are not programmed for that, I can say they are programmed totally to opposite and internal rotation of the back shoulder. Both in bsw and dsw. And big part of that image is created by telling that they should close the club face by rotating it by arms instead of the body.
[/quote]

Would you say that some flexible individuals can fake these alignments by applying pressure in other places(ie a swing that meets the criteria of visual alignments but does not produce a significant amount of speed/distance)? If Hogan were to let it continue as you stated above then wouldnt he need to extend the right arm during the release which makes it a 4 barrel pattern according to TGM? Or do you think the right arm/shoulder tension just held the right arm structure stationary and pulling from the left hand made clubshaft release via CF at the bottom. I always thought Hogan had some right arm thrust but based on what you are saying it could easily be just an illusion.

[TeeAce]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1321982050' post='3836501']

Would you say that some flexible individuals can fake these alignments by applying pressure in other places(ie a swing that meets the criteria of visual alignments but does not produce a significant amount of speed/distance)?
[/quote]

Yes I do and quite often swings look great when watching normal video, but you see the problems with hi-speed videos and also in measurements. Seen lot of flexible young ladies who's swings look great but there is nothing really moving. Just worked two hours with one who really started dsw with hips and was 45 degrees open at impact and even before, but nothing went to shoulders. It's same with arms and shoulders.

If I see one with too late release, I see 1000 of too early. And even those who release too late are usually handle draggers who don't come to the impact behind of the body by rotation. I believe Hogan used his right arm, not right hand at impact. And even more upper arm than forearm. I think he used his arm to push the right hand and that pushed the upper part of the grip and left hand. Thats how he maintained the angles on right wrist and right elbow. I could say he tried to hit the ball with the right elbow as hard as possible and as much inside of his body as possible.

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='Staffer' timestamp='1321880316' post='3830271']
http://perfectgolfswingreview.net/BenHogan-DownswingSeries.jpg
DS starts with a push of the ball of the right foot. After that it is all about rotating left with all you got, hitting hard with both hands on the butt of the shaft. The faster the left shoulder goes left horizontal and behind, the higher the ch speed.

IMO
[/quote]

Brilliant. Thanks for reminding.

[tgreenwood11]

Hogan, Nelson, Snead and many others enjoyed long injury free careers (from swinging a golf club, not bus accidents) for one reaon and one reaon only: they didn't chase the golf ball down the target line with their hands and arms.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='tgreenwood11' timestamp='1323222772' post='3902561']
Hogan, Nelson, Snead and many others enjoyed long injury free careers (from swinging a golf club, not bus accidents) for one reaon and one reaon only: they didn't chase the golf ball down the target line with their hands and arms.
[/quote]


cp > cf.

[PingG10guy]

 

cp > cf.

 

 

I agree

[tembolo1284]

I was checking out more footage of Hogan and I think (to me anyways) that this felllow is pushing with his right foot. I actually found it more interesting to study the right leg and knee and how he pushes off. It happens very early even before he completes his backswing. So the timing of it is very interesting.

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1323439628' post='3915733']
I was checking out more footage of Hogan and I think (to me anyways) that this felllow is pushing with his right foot. I actually found it more interesting to study the right leg and knee and how he pushes off. It happens very early even before he completes his backswing. So the timing of it is very interesting.
[/quote]

Hmmm. Im inclined to believe that he is changing directions and the backshift is from the momentum/force of his backswing. Obviously his legs are seriously engaged in that part of his swing but if I had to pick 1 single reason I think it is more of a rebound effect. JMO