Critique my swing -- video inside

[Tyler2106]

Well it looks like I'm crowding the ball and bringing the club in a little to far inside which is what's probably causing the shanks and inconsistency.

I think I'm going to go back out again and try again now that I'm cooled off from this mornings hitting.

[tfish]

[quote name='Tyler2106' timestamp='1332019192' post='4526055']
Well it looks like I'm crowding the ball and bringing the club in a little to far inside which is what's probably causing the shanks and inconsistency. [/quote]
there's still too much arm roll between address and halfway back, but that's really not the root of what's causing you to hit bad shots.

you have early extension aka pelvis moving towards the ball aka left hip not turning deep in the through swing. (lots of info and drills on how to correct this)

in the picture i attached, the green line was your butt line at address, and the green line on the right were the outside of your hands at address. in all good players, you see them break their right butt behind that line in the backswing, and then their left butt returns to or breaks through that line in the downswing. that allows their spine angle to stay the same throughout, and it gives them room in front of their bodies in the downswing for their hands/arms to come through.

when you thrust your pelvis at the ball instead of pivoting and rotating correctly with a deep left hip, your hands have no room. that means the club comes in really steep, that means you have to flip it over at the bottom to make contact, it means slices/fades/pulls because the clubs so much more upright than its designed to be, it's a huge power suck, as well as the shanks because your hands/clubhead are so much outside where they were at address.

i'd work on fixing that before worrying about how perfect the plane of your backswing is.

[Tyler2106]

Thank you very much! I've always wondered about why I was so hunched at address and that would explain it.

I'm going to work this week on fixing that. I've searched around and found a few videos with good ideas. Doesn't seem that difficult but saying and doing are different things.

I will post videos of me hitting this week for more advice. Thanks again!

[Tyler2106]

It's been raining all week long so I haven't been able to get out. I've been practice swinging with no ball and it feels really good when I don't have early extension. I have so much room to swing my arms it's awesome.

When I make it to the range I will get videos and post them.

[Tyler2106]

Finally got out today. Really tried to keep my posture. Felt I did a better job with my short irons but my longer irons and driver I was struggling with.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9WD8IrxeQ0&feature=plcp&context=C43a8973VDvjVQa1PpcFNv75wWlVxErkIeiVh7fs-_lsVqxuncDqE%3D[/media]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qq1R5v3iuPk&context=C4bd4386ADvjVQa1PpcFNv75wWlVxEroCZZP1u-SOzKDkQA1ab0NI=[/media]

[Tyler2106]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHjRufR5ECY&context=C4224c0bADvjVQa1PpcFNv75wWlVxEruR8A2eaNzVXiLkGPU_3N90=[/media]

These are REALLY bad 3 irons
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0qn0zUcsqk&context=C4224c0bADvjVQa1PpcFNv75wWlVxEruR8A2eaNzVXiLkGPU_3N90=[/media]

[Tyler2106]

On to my bad drives
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6z4JQ-FqvEs&context=C45572e7ADvjVQa1PpcFNv75wWlVxErvEYi_rj8Q8eHlP5T6aHwec=[/media]

These drives were all really weak almost duck hooks. They started way left and some hooked
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0C41o7z0D7E&context=C45572e7ADvjVQa1PpcFNv75wWlVxErvEYi_rj8Q8eHlP5T6aHwec=[/media]

[tfish]

it's a process. don't worry about drivers and long irons too much. they'll naturally improve as you get better at the positions with short irons.

your posture throughout the swing looks 10 times better already.

as long as you keep working on the early extension and deep left hip, i think the next thing that stands out are some flaws in the shoulder turn and takeaway which were being talked about before.

right now you're turning your wrists over too soon, your shoulder turn is too flat (and not perpendicular to your spine) and i think you're faking the turn a bit and not getting nearly to 90* while your arms are running off a bit in relation to the short shoulder turn.

fixes....
simply practice and repetition of moving your arms and the club away from the ball only as an extension of the shoulders. no breakdown in the wrists, or opening the clubface. try to keep your hands/arms in the middle of your chest with a straighter right arm and turn so that your left shoulder works down under your chin....not out in front of it. right shoulder will feel higher, the clubhead will feel like it's staying [i]way[/i] outside your hands until 3/4 of the way into your backswing.

current tiger does an excellent job of all of that....
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsVosVx1R6g"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsVosVx1R6g[/url]
don't need to listen to frank nobilo, or that he's hitting driver not short iron...just look at how he turns away from the ball as one unit with a big shoulder turn and the arms out in front of his body. that sets up everything else to work connected and in front of him....etc in the swing and makes the downswing more a matter of just turning as opposed to rerouting or having to manipulate anything.

record a face on video next time too.

[Tyler2106]

Tfish, you're awesome!

To be honest with you the only thing I was really trying to work on today was my posture. I figured since that was the biggest fault I had I'd really focus on that. Then once I got the feel for it I'd make sure everything else was in place. I think I'm going to work my way up the bag once I feel more comfortable, primarily focus on shorter irons for now.

And ya after watching Tiger's swing I realize my take it away needs a lot of work.

I'm going to try and get out tomorrow morning before work to work on the things you're saying. I will try and get a front view.

Thanks again!

[Tyler2106]

Here are a few more videos. I really tried to work on my take away and keeping my posture. I don't think I did that good with my take away. Let me know what you think.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21Lc_IoNz70&context=C4224c0bADvjVQa1PpcFNv75wWlVxEruR8A2eaNzVXiLkGPU_3N90=[/media]


I feel my front view shots changed a little after making this video. I adjusted my take away a little so if there are bad things happening lateral wise watch my other videos to see if I'm still doing it.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoUi3V80QLI&context=C4224c0bADvjVQa1PpcFNv75wWlVxEruR8A2eaNzVXiLkGPU_3N90=[/media]

[Tyler2106]

I have another video but I have to head to work. I post it later.

[Tyler2106]

Alright here's the other video. I think my take away is much better in this video but still needs work. Also, what am I doing that is causing my balance to be off and me still bent on the follow through?

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvH_z_EA2fA&context=C45572e7ADvjVQa1PpcFNv75wWlVxErvEYi_rj8Q8eHlP5T6aHwec=[/media]


Also, comparing my first shot in this video to that Tiger video I notice that my club at the top of my swing is pointing way left and high while Tiger's is pointing right down the target line. Is that just a matter of letting my wrists break/hinge up top?

Wow, I also noticed I have very little hip rotation on the down swing. At contact my hips are parallel to the target while Tiger's hips are almost pointing at the target. Interesting.

[UngiftedGolfer]

A couple things from the head on video. I was going to say something about the shoulder turn yesterday, that it didn't look like a real shoulder turn was being made, but now seeing the head on video I really think that is the case. I know you are working on a lot of things right now, and parts look like they are coming along well, but I think making sure that you make a good honest shoulder turn will really help bring things together.

A lot of people think they are making a good shoulder turn when if fact they aren't. If the shoulder doesn't make that full turn you will lack power, the swing plane will be off and it can cause other compensations that can get a swing out of whack. Try to get the feeling that the left shoulder is lower than the right on the backswing, and pointing at or even behind the ball when you get to the top of your swing.

I think practicing some of your swing positions, and some slow motion full swings, might help a lot, especially now that you've fixed some of the things with your posture. Just hold some of the positions "around the clock" to get a feeling of where your club, hands, shoulders, hips, etc...need to be at each point in the swing.

Another thing I noticed with the head on video, actually it was the first thing I noticed, was your hands and shaft angle at address. It looks like the handle of the club is pointing to the right of your belly button, and your hands are hanging back because of this. I would try moving the hands forward a bit, so the handle points more to the left side of your belly button. I think your contact will be better with the forward shaft lean. This allows you to hit down on the ball, which you can't really do if the hands are trailing the club at impact.

When are they going to let you start hitting from the grass at Holmes? This will also probably have an impact as the mats tend to "lie" about the swing and the contact you are making.

Keep up the work and you'll see the results. When all else fails, go back to the basics, clear your head of the thousands of swing thoughts you have, and just work on playing golf instead of the mechanics. Make sure you keep having fun out there. For as much as I love the game, I've burned myself out in years past (took almost 2 years away from the game when I couldn't push past a 4 hc a while back). Remember that is is just a game. We all want to get better, but I think we all want to enjoy our time on the course/range as well.

[Tyler2106]

Ya there are a lot of things going on in my head right now when practicing I'm trying to keep it simple right now even though I have a lot to correct. I'm going to the range tomorrow to work on it more.


I noticed my shoulder turn is lacking/not really there. I know what you mean by making it feel like my left shoulder is lower than my right.

That's a good idea about pausing at different places in my swing. I do need to learn how it feels to be in position at what seems to be 9 o'clock where I lose my Y.


After watching that video I thought my hands looked funny but I wasn't sure what it is. That'll be an easy fix.

Holmes should be letting everyone hit off the mats in a week or so. It'll be nice to hit off the grass because I know the mats aren't the same.

Thanks for the help. It's a long, hard process but seeing the changes I've made this quickly from just practicing a few times a week is nice.

[Tyler2106]

Well nothing really good happened today at the range. It's frustrating but it's something I know won't happen overnight. What's annoying is that when I take a practice swing or go through the swing without a club I can have a good take away and I can really get my hips into the shot. Put a club in my hands and I go back to my old habits.

Here's probably the "best" shot I recorded this morning. Still need to work on my shoulder turn, mini hip rotation on the downswing.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44DCdVI_ero&context=C45572e7ADvjVQa1PpcFNv75wWlVxErvEYi_rj8Q8eHlP5T6aHwec=[/media]

[Tyler2106]

Then this is what happens when I put a driver in my hands -- I take a practice swing and can really get my hips through but not when I'm hitting a ball, sucks lol
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I0X06_e63I&context=C4224c0bADvjVQa1PpcFNv75wWlVxEruR8A2eaNzVXiLkGPU_3N90=[/media]


This is a better 7 iron
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaOZoZe_GPU&feature=plcp&context=C4d1fab6VDvjVQa1PpcFNv75wWlVxEruR8A2eaNzVXiLkGPU_3N90%3D[/media]

[Tyler2106]

Went and hit again after round 3 finished up. Not much better but it started to click a little more. I was watching the GC and Arnold Palmer talked about when he wants to hit it farther he slows his back swing down to make sure everything is in place. So I took that mentality to the range and worked on slowing down my back swing. It did help get me into a little better position. Still have to work on my shoulder turn and getting my hips to release.

[tfish]

takeaway's getting there, but you still have a habit of turning the shoulders too flat....and then from above halfway back onwards, you really break the right elbow down and it gets behind you. anytime something gets behind you in the backswing....in the downswing, either that part has got to drop in and move faster to get back in front, or the rest of you has to slow down for it to catch up. in this case its getting blocked out and you can't simply turn back through without stalling and flipping the club.

easy, cheap device to fix that in a hurry and get you the correct feelings....is to get a foam ball, about the size of a volleyball or a little smaller and then cut out some notches in it so it fits naturally between your upper forearms/elbows. actually any old piece of foam would work....light's better though it's not affecting the weight of your arms too much. strap some bungees or an ace bandage & duck tape to it, so it stays in place while you swing. and then hit a lot of wedge shots.

it forces you to keep your elbows together, keep both your arms in front of your body, and swing with your shoulders and core.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rge4wGMcGdM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rge4wGMcGdM[/url]

dan does a good job explaining it here, and also uses the ball i'm talking about.

[Tyler2106]

That's a good little video. Like I said in one of my previous posts when I take a practice swing without a club I can get everything where it's supposed to be but put a club in my hand it's like I forget how to get back into those positions.

I was trying to search around for a ball that would work like in the video but didn't find anything. I will have to search around for something cheap tomorrow.

I noticed that my shoulder turn is still not there. When I got home and watched my videos and then watched Tiger's video you linked I noticed it isn't the same or even similar. Next time I go hit I will work on getting my shoulders more steep.

Now that my stance is a better I guess I need to focus on my take away because by the sound of it getting into position on the back swing with allow everything else to fall into place.

Thanks again for the help! More videos should be up tomorrow or Monday.

[UngiftedGolfer]

One more quick thought to add to the thousands you already have. You mentioned that you feel like your practice swings are good and everything is falling into place, but then the real swing doesn't seem to be the same. It might be hard to do at this point, but try to pretend that the ball isn't there during your real swing. Just feel like you are taking your practice swing and let the ball get in the way. I think a lot of players tend to think too much while standing over the ball, and most of them probably don't really think as much when taking the practice swings. Instead of thinking about hitting the ball, just take your good practice swing and let the ball get in the way.

[Tyler2106]

Thanks. I will try that if I can't figure out how to do what's been suggested. After rereading the suggestions in this thread and watching that video I was working on learning the feel and movements needed to get my left shoulder where it needs to be. I was able to get a good feel but we'll see what happens when I put a club in my hand.

[Tyler2106]

Went to the range this morning and same old swing habits. I'm going to look for a ball to use as a training aid because for some reason I can't translate what I'm trying to do in my head to my swing.

Anyone know where I can get a ball like in tfish's video he linked?

[Tyler2106]

Thoughts? I really think I need to get the club pointing down the target line at the top of my swing. I think that may help with less wrist action at contact...?
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0PggpExhxc&context=C4224c0bADvjVQa1PpcFNv75wWlVxEruR8A2eaNzVXiLkGPU_3N90=[/media]


Pay no attention to the ball flight on the first shot. The title of the video was a joke lol
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vqf9zE2bUYI&context=C45572e7ADvjVQa1PpcFNv75wWlVxErvEYi_rj8Q8eHlP5T6aHwec=[/media]

[tfish]

you're on the right track and obviously have the commitment to practice the right things and get better. i'd continue to work on the takeaway, big vertical shoulder turn, keeping the elbows together (try to find a foam ball) and the early extension until you really got it down and feel like it's ingrained to the point where you do it more naturally without thinking about every little thing.

adding more and trying to change it all at once is tough for anyone. it just becomes too much, and then you start doing one thing right and 3 others wrong and then another thing right and forget about the first thing...etc. for instance in that last video, the reason you top it is the pelvis thrust and early extension showing back up....whereas in the other videos you're doing a better job of it.

don't not be afraid to get the hands a little more inside initially, they're lifting straight up and away from you too much right now. feel like they're passing closer to your right pocket while the clubhead stays outside. and doing that will help get the shoulder turn more vertical.
and then be conscious of having a light grip pressure, specifically with the right hand.

[Tyler2106]

Thanks for the encouraging words tfish.

In the first video (post #53) how was my shoulder turn? It seemed to be more steep then others. Do I need to go more steep/bigger shoulder turn?

[Tyler2106]

Another member on the board here got this footage from the tournament today. After watching the video I really noticed what you mean by keeping my hands more inside initially. I think my shoulder turn is as steep as Tiger's, no?

I also noticed Tiger's hip rotation on the backswing. My hips seem to really rotate backwards (away from the target) while Tiger has a big, full shoulder turn with what looks like little hip movement away from the target. Almost like he's winding up his upper body to really release it on the downswing. Thoughts?

[tfish]

hard to tell the extent of the shoulder turn without a face on view, but yea....it relative to your spine it should be perpendicular, which in this case is steeper.

in the attached image, the one line is your approximate spine angle at address (butt to neck), the other is the top of your shoulders at the top of the backswing. you can see they're not really square to one another, and your chin's obscured by a shoulder that's out in front of you at the top instead of under you.

believe me...this is difficult to correct quickly. and even if it feels very vertical and awkward, it's probably still not enough.

[Tyler2106]

Thanks tfish. That would answer my questions. What about my hips on my take away? Should they be more "quiet?"

I've got a few ideas to try and work on getting more steep and working on my take away. What's difficult is putting EVERYTHING together at once. Today I worked on my take away and my early extension creeps back in. Work on my early extension and my take away suffers.

I guess if this were easy we'd all be professionals

[Tyler2106]

Went out today to practice my shoulder turn and work on my early extension. I failed miserably with my shoulder turn and getting the club on plane and where it needs to be. When I really tried to work on my take away I was forgetting about my early extension. So after hitting a $5 bucket of balls my take away and shoulder turn didn't improve and I didn't get any better with my early extension issues.

Was quite frustrating. I'm in need of some training aids to help me get past my issues.

[tfish]

(responding to your pm cause i can't upload images on pm's)

i made one just like the video from this ball...
[url="http://www.amazon.com/Poof-3164XXXX-Foam-Volleyball/dp/B0000BYMF3/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1332989538&sr=8-1"]http://www.amazon.co...32989538&sr=8-1[/url]
then i got a 48" bungee cord at home depot and threaded it through to create a strap. but people also use duct tape and ace bandages to accomplish the same thing for a couple bucks cheaper.

also keep in mind that hitting range balls isn't always the best option in terms of changing things about your swing. it can get expensive....and frustrating when you're trying to ingrain feelings but the contact/ballflight sucks. rehearsing the positions, correct coil and feelings with & without a club in varying degrees of speed away from the course can be extremely beneficial. in front of a mirror or in the backyard, or anytime you get a chance.

even though i'm not a hank haney fan, i do know on his show he says almost every time that he wants his students to practice 100 swings a day, and they don't even need a ball. unfortunately none of them have the dedication to do it....but the fact remains that being focused and committed and doing something so simple for 5-10 minutes will have pretty dramatic results after a couple weeks....if you're practicing the right things. and i think at this point you know about where you need to be, it's more a matter of making your mind/body execute it.