How to talk about golf

[Sean2]

Professionals play blades. Professionals play cavity backs. Professionals play GI's.

There is no right or wrong answer to this question!

All you can do is play what works for you. And, whatever that is is not proof it will work for someone else.

Sheesh...

[Thrillhouse]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1336012349' post='4836804']
Professionals play blades. Professionals play cavity backs. Professionals play GI's.

There is no right or wrong answer to this question!

All you can do is play what works for you. And, whatever that is is not proof it will work for someone else.

Sheesh...
[/quote]

Professionals have noses, most wrxers have noses, therefore most wrxers could be professionals.

If you have a nose you can play blades. Fact.

[harbor17]

You should play whatever you want if shooting the lowest score possible is not your top priority but to say at 17hc blades give you the best chance at scoring your best just doesn't make sense. I have never met a player that was a consistent ball striker but could not get off the tee, it just doesn't make sense. A consistent repeatable swing is just that, regardless of which club is in your hand.

If you ran a test and played 10 rounds with your blades and another 10 rounds with GI irons such as ping G20's I would bet my life savings that your scores would be lower with the G20's. Anyone that plays with some regularity can hit some good shots with blades but often times your bad shots have a much larger impact on your score than your good shots and blades magnify those bad shots, that is a fact. There is a reason that the majority of players on the PGA Tour are playing cavity backs and GI clubs...that is to shoot the lowest score possible. Ben Curtis plays Titleist AP1 GI irons and he is a much better ballstriker than a 17....he is miles away from a scratch. That says something.

If you insist on playing blades because you put a premium on look and feel over scoring well than that is up to you and is fine but you can't honestly try to justify your choice to play blades as being best for your game at a 17hc....which is probably alittle skewed anyway if you are combining 9 hole scores played on different days....

[youngstructural]

[quote name='harbor17' timestamp='1336050884' post='4838706']
You should play whatever you want if shooting the lowest score possible is not your top priority but to say at 17hc blades give you the best chance at scoring your best just doesn't make sense. I have never met a player that was a consistent ball striker but could not get off the tee, it just doesn't make sense. A consistent repeatable swing is just that, regardless of which club is in your hand.

If you ran a test and played 10 rounds with your blades and another 10 rounds with GI irons such as ping G20's I would bet my life savings that your scores would be lower with the G20's. Anyone that plays with some regularity can hit some good shots with blades but often times your bad shots have a much larger impact on your score than your good shots and blades magnify those bad shots, that is a fact. There is a reason that the majority of players on the PGA Tour are playing cavity backs and GI clubs...that is to shoot the lowest score possible. Ben Curtis plays Titleist AP1 GI irons and he is a much better ballstriker than a 17....he is miles away from a scratch. That says something.

If you insist on playing blades because you put a premium on look and feel over scoring well than that is up to you and is fine but you can't honestly try to justify your choice to play blades as being best for your game at a 17hc....which is probably alittle skewed anyway if you are combining 9 hole scores played on different days....
[/quote]

I have a question for everyone, because I feel like the line between CB and Blade is blurry. Using the Titleist line for example ...

AP1 = GI
AP2 = CB ? or GI?
CB = Blade?
MB = Blade (this is obvious)

So more specifically, what would you define the CB and AP2 as? Furthermore, lets attach hncp ranges to those (this is just for my own personal knowledge) but would it look like this:

AP1 = 20+
AP2 = 20 - 5
CB = 10 - scratch
MB = 5 - scratch

Or something like that?

[RRFireblade]

Its really a shame that one person always has to be degraded and/or slammed for another person to prove he's "right".

You don't have to understand why someone does something, if you can't then chances are you never will.

If it makes you feel better hurting some else, that's when you should be asking youself why. Try and understand that.

Anyway....

Clubs are just a tool. The differences between them "ALL" are seriously over rated. No club will make anyone a pro who couldn't be one with any other clubs. Pros play gear for a ton of reasons , many of which you might never understand as well. The pro game is no example of what any one who does not make a living at should follow. They get paid for everything from performance to image, endorsement and many levels of sponsorships. Don't think for a second that anyone of them couldn't score with any chunk of metal hanging off the end of a stick. They are just that good.

The other misconceptions IMO, are that minimal differences in "misses" generated by different clubs have massive amounts of impact in score. In my worthless opinion, they do not. Massive range of misses do however and no amount of 'forgiveness' will correct that. I'd say the weaker your game the more a club can 'help' your score but as you get better, the impact is dramatically less. As you approach scratch and beyond, its negligible. To shoot under par I need to be hitting most all greens in regulation AND have a reasonable proximity to the hole. IMO, inside 20 feet at least. I do not want to be making a living trying to break par outside of that all day. So.... if I miss, no amount of forgiveness keeps me inside of the minimum range to score. It just doesn't no matter what the marketing teams try to make you believe. If it did the Pros would he breaking course records left and right, averages would be at all time bests, handicapped industry wide would be at all time lows.

But guess what.... None of that has happened, in fact statistically, almost nothing has changed in the last 10-20 years across the entire range of the sport. That is a fact.

I guess that's about all I have to add.






<---------wonders how much he's leaving on the table playing blades.

[kg92lefty]

[quote name='Aithos' timestamp='1336009894' post='4836402']
Actually it takes your 10 best of 20 rounds. Until you have more than 10 rounds it takes all 10 by default, I have exactly 10 rounds played when you add together all my 9 hole rounds consecutively. So until I play 6-10 more 9 hole rounds or 3-5 more 18 hole rounds those are driving up my number considerably. Please don't bother to reply to my posts anymore, you have shown me repeatedly you either don't understand what I'm saying or don't care. You have your opinion about handicaps and if you want to think they mean a lot more than they do, fine. I'm finished spending my time responding to you.
[/quote]

I know how handicap works.
It takes your best scores from the scores you post (depending on how many you have), the US handicap number is your potential where as the Euro handicap system is your actual skill. In the US this number means less because it does not take all scores into consideration. So in fact on a normal day you are worse than the 17 you think you are.
We have this system to measure your potential ability to shoot a score, skill, if a golfer has a higher handicap they have less skill.....not hard to figure out. I don't care if you play blades or not but do not say you are a consistent striker when your handicap is that high. I do understand that other elements of the game effect score but you have said you are a consistent striker and do not hit the ball like a 17 handicap. If you were a consistent striker you would be able to hit your driver decent enough to get in play and you would be hitting more greens, taking the short game out of the equation. Also do not say you shoot 38-42 on 9 holes because if you did your handicap would be lower because again the system only takes your best scores.
Like others have said your good shots with a blade, cavity and GI will all be very similar, it is your mishits where the forgiveness helps you. When you want to get good at golf it is about minimizes your mistakes and mishits, depending on your mishit a cavity or a GI may or may not help you. The thin shot will be worse with a blade but a shot towards the heel wont make much difference.
Just please stop posting these threads and starting this argument with the entire board every time someone mentions blades and handicap, because handicap does mean something (why we have it). Write down courses you play, fwys, girs, putts and other stats and see where you can improve. Until you are hitting at least 9 fairways and and 11 greens in a casual round you are not a consistent striker.

[Aithos]

[quote name='harbor17' timestamp='1336050884' post='4838706']
You should play whatever you want if shooting the lowest score possible is not your top priority but to say at 17hc blades give you the best chance at scoring your best just doesn't make sense. I have never met a player that was a consistent ball striker but could not get off the tee, it just doesn't make sense. A consistent repeatable swing is just that, regardless of which club is in your hand.

If you ran a test and played 10 rounds with your blades and another 10 rounds with GI irons such as ping G20's I would bet my life savings that your scores would be lower with the G20's. Anyone that plays with some regularity can hit some good shots with blades but often times your bad shots have a much larger impact on your score than your good shots and blades magnify those bad shots, that is a fact. There is a reason that the majority of players on the PGA Tour are playing cavity backs and GI clubs...that is to shoot the lowest score possible. Ben Curtis plays Titleist AP1 GI irons and he is a much better ballstriker than a 17....he is miles away from a scratch. That says something.

If you insist on playing blades because you put a premium on look and feel over scoring well than that is up to you and is fine but you can't honestly try to justify your choice to play blades as being best for your game at a 17hc....which is probably alittle skewed anyway if you are combining 9 hole scores played on different days....
[/quote]

I've asked that people stop posting stuff like this in here and take these discussions to PM. I'm done repeating myself on that subject, you can think what you want but what you're saying is not a universal truth. Also, a *lot* of pros play blades. Far more than people seem to think. If you want to pay for a set of g20s or AP1s fit to my specs I'll gladly prove you wrong. And a driver swing is nothing like an iron swing and I've seen hundreds of players who hit irons fine and can't hit a driver to save their life.

As for handicap, I usually play much better my second nine of an 18 hole round since I often don't have time to warm up very well before my rounds. So I'm actually hurting my own scores by playing 9 hole rounds. I haven't played 18 many times this year and they were eariler in the year but here are my first 9 scores (49, 54, 49, 49, 57) and here are the back 9 scores (46, 38, 41, 44, 47). Not good scores by any stretch, I don't like shooting in the 90s but I haven't been able to put a complete round together yet. But this thread isn't about this either...search out "Aithos' progress thread" if you want to comment on it.

[Aithos]

What people seem to be missing in these discussions is that not everyone is a club ho, I purchase new clubs on average every 7 years. I'll be close to or better than a 10 before the year is through. I'll be single digits next year sometime and I'm aiming to be scratch within another season or two after that. I'm not buying a thousand dollar set of clubs based on my first season playing more than 6 times in 7 years and then spending more money a year later...that's stupid and wasteful. I got the clubs I want to game for the next 5+ years. Even if I gave you the fact that maybe at my handicap I'm playing above my ballstriking (which I'm not) I'm also looking big picture because I don't have the money to think small.

I'll gladly take a set of MP-53s or MP-59s if one of you rich guys wants to pay for them and if I hit them better I'll retire the blades until next season. I'm not closeminded, I bought what gave me the best numbers at the start of the year...

[TJCDAS]

Logically you don't need a super long post to rationalize or your choice of blades over cavity-backs.

[kg92lefty]

[quote name='Aithos' timestamp='1336056725' post='4839400']
[quote name='harbor17' timestamp='1336050884' post='4838706']
You should play whatever you want if shooting the lowest score possible is not your top priority but to say at 17hc blades give you the best chance at scoring your best just doesn't make sense. I have never met a player that was a consistent ball striker but could not get off the tee, it just doesn't make sense. A consistent repeatable swing is just that, regardless of which club is in your hand.

If you ran a test and played 10 rounds with your blades and another 10 rounds with GI irons such as ping G20's I would bet my life savings that your scores would be lower with the G20's. Anyone that plays with some regularity can hit some good shots with blades but often times your bad shots have a much larger impact on your score than your good shots and blades magnify those bad shots, that is a fact. There is a reason that the majority of players on the PGA Tour are playing cavity backs and GI clubs...that is to shoot the lowest score possible. Ben Curtis plays Titleist AP1 GI irons and he is a much better ballstriker than a 17....he is miles away from a scratch. That says something.

If you insist on playing blades because you put a premium on look and feel over scoring well than that is up to you and is fine but you can't honestly try to justify your choice to play blades as being best for your game at a 17hc....which is probably alittle skewed anyway if you are combining 9 hole scores played on different days....
[/quote]

I've asked that people stop posting stuff like this in here and take these discussions to PM. I'm done repeating myself on that subject, you can think what you want but what you're saying is not a universal truth. Also, a *lot* of pros play blades. Far more than people seem to think. If you want to pay for a set of g20s or AP1s fit to my specs I'll gladly prove you wrong. And a driver swing is nothing like an iron swing and I've seen hundreds of players who hit irons fine and can't hit a driver to save their life.

As for handicap, I usually play much better my second nine of an 18 hole round since I often don't have time to warm up very well before my rounds. So I'm actually hurting my own scores by playing 9 hole rounds. I haven't played 18 many times this year and they were eariler in the year but here are my first 9 scores (49, 54, 49, 49, 57) and here are the back 9 scores (46, 38, 41, 44, 47). Not good scores by any stretch, I don't like shooting in the 90s but I haven't been able to put a complete round together yet. But this thread isn't about this either...search out "Aithos' progress thread" if you want to comment on it.
[/quote]

then don't say in an earlier post that you shoot 38-42.

forget your good shots, depending on your [b]miss[/b] you can be closer to your target with a cavity than with a blade(fact) that is why gold companies make clubs more forgiving each year (ap2 for example). Your misses are what are giving you these high scores. if you are a good player and ballstriker then it wont matter since you hit the middle everytime. I got a challenge for you: duct tape a quarter (i did pennies in the barn at work) to the face of an old 6 iron and hit balls, if you dont hit the middle it wont get airborn, see what you get.

btw i love how you think you are this great ballstriker! Lol.

[Rock Chalk Jayhawk]

Truth or Fiction: A GI iron is easier to hit than a blade.

[Aithos]

[quote name='kg92lefty' timestamp='1336058207' post='4839584']
[quote name='Aithos' timestamp='1336056725' post='4839400']
[quote name='harbor17' timestamp='1336050884' post='4838706']
You should play whatever you want if shooting the lowest score possible is not your top priority but to say at 17hc blades give you the best chance at scoring your best just doesn't make sense. I have never met a player that was a consistent ball striker but could not get off the tee, it just doesn't make sense. A consistent repeatable swing is just that, regardless of which club is in your hand.

If you ran a test and played 10 rounds with your blades and another 10 rounds with GI irons such as ping G20's I would bet my life savings that your scores would be lower with the G20's. Anyone that plays with some regularity can hit some good shots with blades but often times your bad shots have a much larger impact on your score than your good shots and blades magnify those bad shots, that is a fact. There is a reason that the majority of players on the PGA Tour are playing cavity backs and GI clubs...that is to shoot the lowest score possible. Ben Curtis plays Titleist AP1 GI irons and he is a much better ballstriker than a 17....he is miles away from a scratch. That says something.

If you insist on playing blades because you put a premium on look and feel over scoring well than that is up to you and is fine but you can't honestly try to justify your choice to play blades as being best for your game at a 17hc....which is probably alittle skewed anyway if you are combining 9 hole scores played on different days....
[/quote]

I've asked that people stop posting stuff like this in here and take these discussions to PM. I'm done repeating myself on that subject, you can think what you want but what you're saying is not a universal truth. Also, a *lot* of pros play blades. Far more than people seem to think. If you want to pay for a set of g20s or AP1s fit to my specs I'll gladly prove you wrong. And a driver swing is nothing like an iron swing and I've seen hundreds of players who hit irons fine and can't hit a driver to save their life.

As for handicap, I usually play much better my second nine of an 18 hole round since I often don't have time to warm up very well before my rounds. So I'm actually hurting my own scores by playing 9 hole rounds. I haven't played 18 many times this year and they were eariler in the year but here are my first 9 scores (49, 54, 49, 49, 57) and here are the back 9 scores (46, 38, 41, 44, 47). Not good scores by any stretch, I don't like shooting in the 90s but I haven't been able to put a complete round together yet. But this thread isn't about this either...search out "Aithos' progress thread" if you want to comment on it.
[/quote]

then don't say in an earlier post that you shoot 38-42.

forget your good shots, depending on your [b]miss[/b] you can be closer to your target with a cavity than with a blade(fact) that is why gold companies make clubs more forgiving each year (ap2 for example). Your misses are what are giving you these high scores. if you are a good player and ballstriker then it wont matter since you hit the middle everytime. I got a challenge for you: duct tape a quarter (i did pennies in the barn at work) to the face of an old 6 iron and hit balls, if you dont hit the middle it wont get airborn, see what you get.
[/quote]

Do you even read posts before you reply? The guy said playing 9 hole rounds means my handicap is lower than it should be. I said it isn't because I normally play better on the back 9. To illustrate this I posted the front/back 9 scores of the rounds I played 18 (which were mostly earlier in the season). My last several 9 hole rounds have been 38-42, and I expect to shoot between 40-44 for 9 hole rounds right now. I had a really good ballstriking round yesterday but was picking the wrong club or shot and shot a 46. It rained all the last two days so I expected slow greens and all my chips and putts released and ran out. I was really frustrated but that's life.

What is giving me these scores is that I don't have my game dialed in, if it isn't the tee shots it's my chipping. If it isn't my chipping it's my putting, I've hit some pushes and pulls with my irons but largely I'm hitting the ball solidly. Its only been a month and a half, it isn't like I'm going to magically get the same game I had 7 years ago...I need to work at it. Take a trip to Iowa and come play a few rounds with me, until then you don't know anything about me. I've been nothing but honest in my posts, I don't need to lie on the Internet because of an ego. If that was my thing I'd have just said I was a 10 and been done with it, but I'm not right now.

[kg92lefty]

[quote name='Aithos' timestamp='1335985924' post='4833626']
Well said, and I'm glad you have figured out what you want to play. I feel the same way now that I have the blades I've always wanted. I feel the combo set that I played for the previous seven years was a mistake and I wish I had gotten the blades sooner. I'm not a normal 17 cap, I'm just not willing to claim my "old" handicap from before my long period of inactivity. I started fresh this year so I have calculated my handicap from these first rounds. People like to gloss over my background, [b]17 handicaps don't routinely shoot 38-42 nine hole rounds.
[/b]
I encourage people to not get hung up on numbers, I'm a 17 because the first five rounds of the year were a disaster. [b] I don't hit like a 17[/b], I don't think like a 17, and in another month I won't be a 17. But I appreciate your input, I've seen some good posts from you in my time here...
[/quote]

there you go. you said it, yet the scores are not all within 38-42.

but since you are such a good ballstriker play only with irons and you will be scratch in no time.

I love this place, lots of guys that stripe 4 irons 220 yards over water yet have seizures with a 56* or a putter.

[Rock Chalk Jayhawk]

[quote name='Aithos' timestamp='1336058746' post='4839636']
Do you even read posts before you reply? The guy said playing 9 hole rounds means my handicap is lower than it should be. I said it isn't because I normally play better on the back 9. To illustrate this I posted the front/back 9 scores of the rounds I played 18 (which were mostly earlier in the season). My last several 9 hole rounds have been 38-42, and I expect to shoot between 40-44 for 9 hole rounds right now. I had a really good ballstriking round yesterday but was picking the wrong club or shot and shot a 46. It rained all the last two days so I expected slow greens and all my chips and putts released and ran out. I was really frustrated but that's life.

What is giving me these scores is that I don't have my game dialed in, if it isn't the tee shots it's my chipping. If it isn't my chipping it's my putting, I've hit some pushes and pulls with my irons but largely I'm hitting the ball solidly. Its only been a month and a half, it isn't like I'm going to magically get the same game I had 7 years ago...I need to work at it. Take a trip to Iowa and come play a few rounds with me, until then you don't know anything about me. I've been nothing but honest in my posts, I don't need to lie on the Internet because of an ego. If that was my thing I'd have just said I was a 10 and been done with it, but I'm not right now.
[/quote]


Hitting the ball solidly and being a good ballstriker are different. Not to rain on your parade, but good ball strikers do not shoot 46 on 9 holes, nor do they consider a day that they shot 46 to be a good ballstriking day. The driver is one aspect of ballstriking. Ball striking includes all shots that do not involve the short game. The issue here is that your expectation and definition of "good ballstriking" are inconsistent with most everybody on this thread, which is fine. You are entitled to your opinion, as is everybody else with a radically different idea of what "good ballstriking" encompasses.

[nbg352]

[quote name='kg92lefty' timestamp='1336058207' post='4839584']
[quote name='Aithos' timestamp='1336056725' post='4839400']
[quote name='harbor17' timestamp='1336050884' post='4838706']
You should play whatever you want if shooting the lowest score possible is not your top priority but to say at 17hc blades give you the best chance at scoring your best just doesn't make sense. I have never met a player that was a consistent ball striker but could not get off the tee, it just doesn't make sense. A consistent repeatable swing is just that, regardless of which club is in your hand.

If you ran a test and played 10 rounds with your blades and another 10 rounds with GI irons such as ping G20's I would bet my life savings that your scores would be lower with the G20's. Anyone that plays with some regularity can hit some good shots with blades but often times your bad shots have a much larger impact on your score than your good shots and blades magnify those bad shots, that is a fact. There is a reason that the majority of players on the PGA Tour are playing cavity backs and GI clubs...that is to shoot the lowest score possible. Ben Curtis plays Titleist AP1 GI irons and he is a much better ballstriker than a 17....he is miles away from a scratch. That says something.

If you insist on playing blades because you put a premium on look and feel over scoring well than that is up to you and is fine but you can't honestly try to justify your choice to play blades as being best for your game at a 17hc....which is probably alittle skewed anyway if you are combining 9 hole scores played on different days....
[/quote]

I've asked that people stop posting stuff like this in here and take these discussions to PM. I'm done repeating myself on that subject, you can think what you want but what you're saying is not a universal truth. Also, a *lot* of pros play blades. Far more than people seem to think. If you want to pay for a set of g20s or AP1s fit to my specs I'll gladly prove you wrong. And a driver swing is nothing like an iron swing and I've seen hundreds of players who hit irons fine and can't hit a driver to save their life.

As for handicap, I usually play much better my second nine of an 18 hole round since I often don't have time to warm up very well before my rounds. So I'm actually hurting my own scores by playing 9 hole rounds. I haven't played 18 many times this year and they were eariler in the year but here are my first 9 scores (49, 54, 49, 49, 57) and here are the back 9 scores (46, 38, 41, 44, 47). Not good scores by any stretch, I don't like shooting in the 90s but I haven't been able to put a complete round together yet. But this thread isn't about this either...search out "Aithos' progress thread" if you want to comment on it.
[/quote]

then don't say in an earlier post that you shoot 38-42.

forget your good shots, depending on your [b]miss[/b] you can be closer to your target with a cavity than with a blade(fact) that is why gold companies make clubs more forgiving each year (ap2 for example). Your misses are what are giving you these high scores. if you are a good player and ballstriker then it wont matter since you hit the middle everytime. I got a challenge for you: duct tape a quarter (i did pennies in the barn at work) to the face of an old 6 iron and hit balls, if you dont hit the middle it wont get airborn, see what you get.

[b]btw i love how you think you are this great ballstriker! Lol.
[/b][/quote]

And just exactly makes you think he isn't a great ballstriker? You ever play with him? see him play? Hear someone talk about his play?
You don't know how he plays, yet you throw that nasty little remark at him.
If you had taken the time to read the OP, you would understand that it is as**s like you that he is referring to.

[kg92lefty]

[quote name='Rock Chalk Jayhawk' timestamp='1336059209' post='4839726']
[quote name='Aithos' timestamp='1336058746' post='4839636']
Do you even read posts before you reply? The guy said playing 9 hole rounds means my handicap is lower than it should be. I said it isn't because I normally play better on the back 9. To illustrate this I posted the front/back 9 scores of the rounds I played 18 (which were mostly earlier in the season). My last several 9 hole rounds have been 38-42, and I expect to shoot between 40-44 for 9 hole rounds right now. I had a really good ballstriking round yesterday but was picking the wrong club or shot and shot a 46. It rained all the last two days so I expected slow greens and all my chips and putts released and ran out. I was really frustrated but that's life.

What is giving me these scores is that I don't have my game dialed in, if it isn't the tee shots it's my chipping. If it isn't my chipping it's my putting, I've hit some pushes and pulls with my irons but largely I'm hitting the ball solidly. Its only been a month and a half, it isn't like I'm going to magically get the same game I had 7 years ago...I need to work at it. Take a trip to Iowa and come play a few rounds with me, until then you don't know anything about me. I've been nothing but honest in my posts, I don't need to lie on the Internet because of an ego. If that was my thing I'd have just said I was a 10 and been done with it, but I'm not right now.
[/quote]


Hitting the ball solidly and being a good ballstriker are different. Not to rain on your parade, but good ball strikers do not shoot 46 on 9 holes, nor do they consider a day that they shot 46 to be a good ballstriking day. The driver is one aspect of ballstriking. Ball striking includes all shots that do not involve the short game. The issue here is that your expectation and definition of "good ballstriking" are inconsistent with most everybody on this thread, which is fine. You are entitled to your opinion, as is everybody else with a radically different idea of what "good ballstriking" encompasses.
[/quote]

thank you.

[Rock Chalk Jayhawk]

[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1336059382' post='4839754']
And just exactly makes you think he isn't a great ballstriker? You ever play with him? see him play? Hear someone talk about his play?
You don't know how he plays, yet you throw that nasty little remark at him.
If you had taken the time to read the OP, you would understand that it is as**s like you that he is referring to.
[/quote]

The fact that he is a 17 handicap means he is not a good ballstriker. Unless it takes him 4 strokes everytime to get up and down around the greens, or he hits every drive OB, there is no possible way he can be considered a good ballstriker. BTW, driving is an integral part to being a good ballstriker.

Edit: I am not saying this to be mean spirited. The OP is only hurting himself with his view of his game. One must be able to recognize and objectively evaluate his weaknesses in order to improve in any facet of life, including golf.

[nbg352]

[quote name='Rock Chalk Jayhawk' timestamp='1336059573' post='4839802']<BR>[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1336059382' post='4839754']<BR>And just exactly makes you think he isn't a great ballstriker? You ever play with him? see him play? Hear someone talk about his play?<BR>You don't know how he plays, yet you throw that nasty little remark at him.<BR>If you had taken the time to read the OP, you would understand that it is as**s like you that he is referring to.<BR>[/quote]<BR><BR>The fact that he is a 17 handicap means he is not a good ballstriker. Unless it takes him 4 strokes everytime to get up and down around the greens, or he hits every drive OB, there is no possible way he can be considered a good ballstriker. BTW, driving is an integral part to being a good ballstriker.<BR>[/quote]<BR><BR>You presented your opinion well. AND you left off the nastiness at the end.<BR>Having said that, I am a decent ball striker and I am currently a 12 because I no longer have the short game I had when I was a two. I believe the guy can be a good iron player, lousy driver, a poor putter and play to a 17. Lot's of ways to get to a 17. Including the method I just described. I've been there. He**, I am there!<BR>I'll take his word before I will take the word of all those who claim 300+ yards off the driver, X-shafts and 120 mph swing speeds.

[greycat]

Why are you not buying a used set of cavity backs. Oh, vanity or is it the golf stupidity. Play them, range them, if they lack the magic its not a lost sell them. It's funny I always end up playing something that I would consider in the same category at x-14's. Damn I try blades to sgi from x to senior. I am poor due to my health (I posted my life since 19 in another post) and I found a way to try things in golf rarely the newest half price is still to damn high for me and normally used. Do you know your fitting if not why? I think you are hurting your game not leaving doors open. In the end when I hear i can't or I won't over a game I move on to the next person.

[Aithos]

[quote name='Rock Chalk Jayhawk' timestamp='1336059573' post='4839802']
[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1336059382' post='4839754']
And just exactly makes you think he isn't a great ballstriker? You ever play with him? see him play? Hear someone talk about his play?
You don't know how he plays, yet you throw that nasty little remark at him.
If you had taken the time to read the OP, you would understand that it is as**s like you that he is referring to.
[/quote]

The fact that he is a 17 handicap means he is not a good ballstriker. Unless it takes him 4 strokes everytime to get up and down around the greens, or he hits every drive OB, there is no possible way he can be considered a good ballstriker. BTW, driving is an integral part to being a good ballstriker.

Edit: I am not saying this to be mean spirited. The OP is only hurting himself with his view of his game. One must be able to recognize and objectively evaluate his weaknesses in order to improve in any facet of life, including golf.
[/quote]

I have never claimed to be a great ballstriker. I hit my irons well, my miss is thin, I've said both of these things repeatedly. You people just don't listen or pay attention to anything that doesnt fit your opinion, which btw is what this thread is about (not a justification).

You want me to recap my whole round? Fine:

Hole 1: hit a drive that cut to the right 10 yards off the fairway. Not in a bad spot, decent lie. Picked the wrong club for the condition, had 150 to the pin which is normally my 7 iron but between the wet and the rough I was just short of the green maybe 3 yards. Hit a solid chip right where I was aiming that released when I expected it to stop, just missed the 12 footer for par and tapped in for 5.

Hole 2: hit a little pull with my driver and didn't quite carry the road, landed just over with an awkward stance for my second shot. Hit a decent shot with a 6i laying up but drew it a bit and it landed on a hill severely below my feet about 100 out. I hit what I thought was an amazing gap wedge just behind the pin, turned out I was 12 feet past again. Two putted for a par 5.

Hole 3: I hit a 3 wood that cut a bit right again (shocking for me, I know) but wasn't as far right as I'm used to. Had a choice to keep it low (which I'm bad at) or try to hit a 7i further than I normally do and go over. I decided to go over, hit it well but ended short and left another short chip. Hit a solid chip that again released long and ended on the fringe opposite side in the worst place possible. Double break with the green sloping downhill after the hole, three putter from the fringe for a double 6.

Hole 13: par three, hit a good 7i hole high that the wind carried just right of the green. Hit another chip that landed on my spot and rolled right off the green. Left a downhill chip where the landing spot I'm familiar with is dead green. Hit the chip I wanted, hit the dead ground bounced left and stopped short instead of rolling down. Missed the hard putt for a double 5.

Hole 14: hit a decent drive that cut a little at the end and ended just right in some trees. Had a decent chip back to the fairway that left me 40 yards to the green. Hit a little pitch that released to the back of the green (again) and two putted from 30 feet for a bogey 5.

Hole 15: hit my best drive of the day on a slight double dogleg, started it left side and cut to the right side of the fairway with a decent 220 shot to the green on the par 5. Hit an ok hybrid that drifted a little right and left a short chip to the green. This time the chip decided to check and I left 15 feet, two putted for par 5.

Hole 16: my one really bad shot, tried to kill my 3 wood on this uphill into the wind 230 yard par three and topped it. Hit a really good hybrid that went just long, chipped on and missed an easy putt which left me with a double 5.

Hole 17: short par three, hit a good shot that bounced off the green (less than 10 yard deep green with two front side bunkers, it's hard to hold). Hit another bad chip that went long and left a bad downhill chip. Two putted for another double after a poor second chip.

Hole 18: hit a really good 3 wood right down the middle on the dogleg right. Left myself a 9i to the green, hit my one mediocre iron shot thin and just bounced off the green onto the fringe. Chipped up and missed another close putt to make a bogey 5.

Add that up and it comes out to 46. I had a very poor scoring round while mostly hitting the shots intended to. I didn't maybe pick the right shots, but I did execute them and I struck the ball well except for the two I mentioned. Not a single shot in that round would have gained anything from a GI iron.

[MattTheTaff]

.....Anyway....So there I am, in Sri Lanka, formerly Ceylon, at about 3 o'clock in the morning, looking for one thousand brown M&Ms to fill a brandy glass, or Ozzy wouldn't go on stage that night. So, Jeff Beck pops his head 'round the door, and mentions there's a little sweet shop on the edge of town. So - we go. And - it's closed. So there's me, and Keith Moon, and David Crosby, breaking into that little sweet shop, eh. Well, instead of a guard dog, they've got this bloody great big Bengal tiger. I managed to take out the tiger with a can of mace, but the shopowner and his son... that's a different story altogether. I had to beat them to death with their own shoes. Nasty business, really. But, sure enough, I got the M&Ms, and Ozzy went on stage and did a great show.

[Aithos]

[quote name='greycat' timestamp='1336060076' post='4839878']
Why are you not buying a used set of cavity backs. Oh, vanity or is it the golf stupidity. Play them, range them, if they lack the magic its not a lost sell them. It's funny I always end up playing something that I would consider in the same category at x-14's. Damn I try blades to sgi from x to senior. I am poor due to my health (I posted my life since 19 in another post) and I found a way to try things in golf rarely the newest half price is still to damn high for me and normally used. Do you know your fitting if not why? I think you are hurting your game not leaving doors open. In the end when I hear i can't or I won't over a game I move on to the next person.
[/quote]

I'm 6'4, I do know my fitting. My pro fit me into the blades. I've mentioned this too, I spent a month hitting clubs at multiple stores with multiple fitters. I had the best results with the blades. The teaching pro/fitter agreed with my purchase. As I've stated: I learned on blades, I played a combo set and hated the cavity half of it, I *love* my blades. GI irons offer me nothing but poor turf interaction, an unappealing appearance, more offset and deflated confidence. I've also never seen a used set with my specs, and everyone here plays x because of their ego. I don't swing that hard and I know it. I *know* my game.

Edit: people also gloss over the fact I hit mp-63s, 59s, R11 irons and didn't get results that were as good. I spent a month choosing my current set, and I'm getting sick and tired of people calling me stupid. Either come play with me or shut up.

[Rock Chalk Jayhawk]

[quote name='Aithos' timestamp='1336061274' post='4840044']
[quote name='Rock Chalk Jayhawk' timestamp='1336059573' post='4839802']
[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1336059382' post='4839754']
And just exactly makes you think he isn't a great ballstriker? You ever play with him? see him play? Hear someone talk about his play?
You don't know how he plays, yet you throw that nasty little remark at him.
If you had taken the time to read the OP, you would understand that it is as**s like you that he is referring to.
[/quote]

The fact that he is a 17 handicap means he is not a good ballstriker. Unless it takes him 4 strokes everytime to get up and down around the greens, or he hits every drive OB, there is no possible way he can be considered a good ballstriker. BTW, driving is an integral part to being a good ballstriker.

Edit: I am not saying this to be mean spirited. The OP is only hurting himself with his view of his game. One must be able to recognize and objectively evaluate his weaknesses in order to improve in any facet of life, including golf.
[/quote]

I have never claimed to be a great ballstriker. I hit my irons well, my miss is thin, I've said both of these things repeatedly. You people just don't listen or pay attention to anything that doesnt fit your opinion, which btw is what this thread is about (not a justification).

You want me to recap my whole round? Fine:

Hole 1: hit a drive that cut to the right 10 yards off the fairway. Not in a bad spot, decent lie. Picked the wrong club for the condition, had 150 to the pin which is normally my 7 iron but between the wet and the rough I was just short of the green maybe 3 yards. Hit a solid chip right where I was aiming that released when I expected it to stop, just missed the 12 footer for par and tapped in for 5.

Hole 2: hit a little pull with my driver and didn't quite carry the road, landed just over with an awkward stance for my second shot. Hit a decent shot with a 6i laying up but drew it a bit and it landed on a hill severely below my feet about 100 out. I hit what I thought was an amazing gap wedge just behind the pin, turned out I was 12 feet past again. Two putted for a par 5.

Hole 3: I hit a 3 wood that cut a bit right again (shocking for me, I know) but wasn't as far right as I'm used to. Had a choice to keep it low (which I'm bad at) or try to hit a 7i further than I normally do and go over. I decided to go over, hit it well but ended short and left another short chip. Hit a solid chip that again released long and ended on the fringe opposite side in the worst place possible. Double break with the green sloping downhill after the hole, three putter from the fringe for a double 6.

Hole 13: par three, hit a good 7i hole high that the wind carried just right of the green. Hit another chip that landed on my spot and rolled right off the green. Left a downhill chip where the landing spot I'm familiar with is dead green. Hit the chip I wanted, hit the dead ground bounced left and stopped short instead of rolling down. Missed the hard putt for a double 5.

Hole 14: hit a decent drive that cut a little at the end and ended just right in some trees. Had a decent chip back to the fairway that left me 40 yards to the green. Hit a little pitch that released to the back of the green (again) and two putted from 30 feet for a bogey 5.

Hole 15: hit my best drive of the day on a slight double dogleg, started it left side and cut to the right side of the fairway with a decent 220 shot to the green on the par 5. Hit an ok hybrid that drifted a little right and left a short chip to the green. This time the chip decided to check and I left 15 feet, two putted for par 5.

Hole 16: my one really bad shot, tried to kill my 3 wood on this uphill into the wind 230 yard par three and topped it. Hit a really good hybrid that went just long, chipped on and missed an easy putt which left me with a double 5.

Hole 17: short par three, hit a good shot that bounced off the green (less than 10 yard deep green with two front side bunkers, it's hard to hold). Hit another bad chip that went long and left a bad downhill chip. Two putted for another double after a poor second chip.

Hole 18: hit a really good 3 wood right down the middle on the dogleg right. Left myself a 9i to the green, hit my one mediocre iron shot thin and just bounced off the green onto the fringe. Chipped up and missed another close putt to make a bogey 5.

Add that up and it comes out to 46. I had a very poor scoring round while mostly hitting the shots intended to. I didn't maybe pick the right shots, but I did execute them and I struck the ball well except for the two I mentioned. Not a single shot in that round would have gained anything from a GI iron.
[/quote]

Unless I am mistaken, you did not hit a single green. Driving is a component to good ballstriking. From your description of your nine holes, you did not strike the ball well. I merely quote you when I referred to "good ballstriking". Good ball strikers hit greens from less than perfect lies (rough, uneven, etc).

[Aithos]

I'm not talking about ballstriking, I'm talking about how I hit my f*****g irons. I even started that post you quoted with "I never claimed to be a great ballstriker". I'm not, irons is the best part of my game. My problem is chipping and driving currently. Jesus. Have you not read anything I've posted? Start at the beginning and read *all* of my posts or don't bother responding anymore. I'm repeating the same s*** over and over and I'm getting really irritated.

My point was that during that round a cavity back or GI would not have gained me a single stroke. As is mostly the case during my other rounds. And normally I have great shots to balance the ones that don't turn out quite how I picture them. You guys must seriously be he most dense group of people I've ever run into...

[Rock Chalk Jayhawk]

[quote name='Aithos' timestamp='1336062060' post='4840152']
I'm not talking about ballstriking, I'm talking about how I hit my f*****g irons. I even started that post you quoted with "I never claimed to be a great ballstriker". I'm not, irons is the best part of my game. My problem is chipping and driving currently. Jesus. Have you not read anything I've posted? Start at the beginning and read *all* of my posts or don't bother responding anymore. I'm repeating the same s*** over and over and I'm getting really irritated.
[/quote]

You stated you had a good ballstriking round but shout a 46. I am claiming you did not have a good ballstriking day. There is a difference between iron play and ballstriking. To be a broken record, ballstriking includes all play up to the green (everything minus short game). Ball striking also includes knowing the proper shot to hit, when to hit it, and executing it. Overshooting your target is not good ballstriking. Hitting the ball solid is not good ballstriking.

[poizster]

I feel like all you guys that claim to be good ball strikers with handicaps well above 5 are a bit delusional. Are you saying you're a good ball striker for a 5, 10, or 17 handicap? Or are you just throwing out a blanket statement?

Last year I hit 53.6% of fairways, and had a GIR of 63.3%. As a +2 handicap I'm comfortable in saying I'm a below average ball striker for my handicap.

[Aithos]

Don't forget the fact that just because the result isn't great the strike can still be good. Every shot that goes right isn't poorly struck, maybe my path is bad. I don't attribute my failings as a golfer to my equipment. I need to work on my swing and put in time to improve. People who think equipment is the path to becoming a better golfer are chumps.

[Aithos]

[quote name='Rock Chalk Jayhawk' timestamp='1336062286' post='4840174']
[quote name='Aithos' timestamp='1336062060' post='4840152']
I'm not talking about ballstriking, I'm talking about how I hit my f*****g irons. I even started that post you quoted with "I never claimed to be a great ballstriker". I'm not, irons is the best part of my game. My problem is chipping and driving currently. Jesus. Have you not read anything I've posted? Start at the beginning and read *all* of my posts or don't bother responding anymore. I'm repeating the same s*** over and over and I'm getting really irritated.
[/quote]

You stated you had a good ballstriking round but shout a 46. I am claiming you did not have a good ballstriking day. There is a difference between iron play and ballstriking. To be a broken record, ballstriking includes all play up to the green (everything minus short game). Ball striking also includes knowing the proper shot to hit, when to hit it, and executing it. Overshooting your target is not good ballstriking. Hitting the ball solid is not good ballstriking.
[/quote]

This whole conversation stems from the fact people don't think I hit the ball well enough to play blades. By your definition you don't need to be a good ballstriker to play blades, you need to make consistent solid contact with the ball. I do that. You want to argue semantics over the wording? You're being a jerk at that point. You should understand my meaning at this point and anything more is just being a troll. I'm done with you too.

[youngstructural]

[quote name='Rock Chalk Jayhawk' timestamp='1336062286' post='4840174']
[quote name='Aithos' timestamp='1336062060' post='4840152']
I'm not talking about ballstriking, I'm talking about how I hit my f*****g irons. I even started that post you quoted with "I never claimed to be a great ballstriker". I'm not, irons is the best part of my game. My problem is chipping and driving currently. Jesus. Have you not read anything I've posted? Start at the beginning and read *all* of my posts or don't bother responding anymore. I'm repeating the same s*** over and over and I'm getting really irritated.
[/quote]

You stated you had a good ballstriking round but shout a 46. I am claiming you did not have a good ballstriking day. There is a difference between iron play and ballstriking. To be a broken record, ballstriking includes all play up to the green (everything minus short game). Ball striking also includes knowing the proper shot to hit, when to hit it, and executing it. Overshooting your target is not good ballstriking. Hitting the ball solid is not good ballstriking.
[/quote]


Symantics. Either way, I read this thread to say, Aithos is a strong iron player, and thus has irons that either suit his game, and/or provide the feel / response he prefers. Why is this an issue for anyone? Who actually gives two flying F**cks what anyone plays, does, says or writes on an internet forum?

I'm inclined to belive what Aithos says beause of his candor, and willingness to desribe in great detail his game. I'm glad you like your irons! Ignore the haters. At the end of the day, its the internet, [i]who actually cares? [/i]

[Rock Chalk Jayhawk]

[quote name='Aithos' timestamp='1336062758' post='4840250']
[quote name='Rock Chalk Jayhawk' timestamp='1336062286' post='4840174']
[quote name='Aithos' timestamp='1336062060' post='4840152']
I'm not talking about ballstriking, I'm talking about how I hit my f*****g irons. I even started that post you quoted with "I never claimed to be a great ballstriker". I'm not, irons is the best part of my game. My problem is chipping and driving currently. Jesus. Have you not read anything I've posted? Start at the beginning and read *all* of my posts or don't bother responding anymore. I'm repeating the same s*** over and over and I'm getting really irritated.
[/quote]

You stated you had a good ballstriking round but shout a 46. I am claiming you did not have a good ballstriking day. There is a difference between iron play and ballstriking. To be a broken record, ballstriking includes all play up to the green (everything minus short game). Ball striking also includes knowing the proper shot to hit, when to hit it, and executing it. Overshooting your target is not good ballstriking. Hitting the ball solid is not good ballstriking.
[/quote]

This whole conversation stems from the fact people don't think I hit the ball well enough to play blades. By your definition you don't need to be a good ballstriker to play blades, you need to make consistent solid contact with the ball. I do that. You want to argue semantics over the wording? You're being a jerk at that point. You should understand my meaning at this point and anything more is just being a troll. I'm done with you too.
[/quote]

I never said you have to hit the ball solidly to be a good ballstriker. I am trying to explain my definition of good ballstriking. I am not arguing over semantics. You and I have a fundamental disagreement on what good ballstriking is, which is fine. To be a good ballstriker, you must be able to consistently produce the shot you intended. As such, overshooting the green, missing the green from less than ideal lies, poor driving are NOT characteristics of good ballstriking.