Help a 4HC. I've Lost It Again!

[LUMA]

So things were looking REAL good this summer until last week. All the sudden I had a warm up on the range and I didn't feel right. Was all over the place. My game on the course wasn't any better. I have gone to the range 4 times now and I am still completely screwed up. AGAIN! I dont know how this happens to me.

 

I am consistently hitting my wedges and irons out toward the tow. Shots are fat, thin, pushed, topped, all kinds of mess. Driver and woods are all the same. Other than the occasional solid strike and I mean occasional. Funny thing is is when I get pissed and start firing away at balls then I get good contact. I can literally go up to a ball with my feet aimed 65 yards to the left and hit a bullet at where I am aimed. When I try to calm down and hit the shot I want, SOMETHING goes wrong.

 

Take a look here. I seem to be "scrunching" or something. I have tried not to do it and it doesnt help so I think this scrunching thing may be due to the fact that I am not doing something else correctly. I've even called off a few golf tournaments because of this. PLEASE help!

 

6 iron...

 

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUTsrXGBYHE[/media]

[akiracornell]

Fat, thin, topped? 4hcap? Hmmmm? Not buying it. Unless you were drinking. And drinking alot. Lol

[LUMA]

[quote name='akiracornell' timestamp='1346999922' post='5600695']
Fat, thin, topped? 4hcap? Hmmmm? Not buying it. Unless you were drinking. And drinking alot. Lol
[/quote]

I have nothing to prove to you. If you don't believe me then that is your deal. If you don't have anything helpful to say then just stay out of the thread.

No funds for any lessons due to job changes and relocation. Help from WRX'rs would be appreciated greatly.

[akiracornell]

my apologies if your on the up and up, it felt like a gag thread. i went to look at your swing and the video wont play. a 4 hcap is either very accomplished or very naturally athletic. i love this game as its one of the most challeging things i have ever done. my bad.

topped and thin lead me to believe your coming up a hair early. maybe takin your eyes and focus off finishing the strike. same possibly with the to shots. i can get fat by over correcting, keeping the head in the shot but dippin the right hip and right shoulder. My correction is eyes and head focuced, with nice level hip turn.
maybe slow down a bit. and spend some time playing half and 3/4 shot so your body can flush the ball. then start deepening the turn.

Maybe your getting quick. Thats a common woe for errent shot. Specially when when fustrated. When i get frustrated i start rapid firing and just reinforce bad shots with more bad shots. A vicious cycle for me. Tempo is such harmonious thing.
When its there its seems a beautiful thing


im interested in your swing, but the video is coming up as private.

[akiracornell]

Have you veered from your standard pre shot routine? Very easy to do on the range.

[LUMA]

Oops. Video fixed.

No I have not changed my pre shot routine. My pre shot routine really starts when I address the ball and do my waggle to get comfy.

And no this is no gag. It's pretty dam un funny. *ironic lol*

[akiracornell]

Pretty good looking swing if you ask me. Your club stays a little shut going baxk and down but nothing compared to david duval or dustin johnson. A bit like zach johnson. Peter kostas says you need alot of body rotatation for a shut head. I havnt quite figured out why.
You do have minimal sway back with the hips and knees which may or may not cause a fat shot occasionally. But sway maybe more of a feel players move. Could brake down on you? But its so little. Does that ball draw all the way back?

[station2station]

Based on your hooded clubface, watch the following video. As Mark Crossfield says in his video, [i]you[/i] must be twisting the clubface closed to keep it hooded because that's not a natural result upon take-away.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42m-mF59PVM[/media]

[MadGolfer76]

It just looks like you are a little late getting things around - upper and lower body are a little out of sequence, and maybe a little stall and throw to compensate. Could be wrong, though.

I can see that you are a good golfer by some of the things you do in that video.

[LUMA]

[quote name='akiracornell' timestamp='1347069439' post='5605075']
Pretty good looking swing if you ask me. Your club stays a little shut going baxk and down but nothing compared to david duval or dustin johnson. A bit like zach johnson. Peter kostas says you need alot of body rotatation for a shut head. I havnt quite figured out why.
You do have minimal sway back with the hips and knees which may or may not cause a fat shot occasionally. But sway maybe more of a feel players move. Could brake down on you? But its so little. Does that ball draw all the way back?[/quote]

Ball draws, and pushes. Mainly a nice draw but its the inconsistency of thin, fat, and pushed shots that are KILLING me.

[quote name='station2station' timestamp='1347069963' post='5605113']
Based on your hooded clubface, watch the following video. As Mark Crossfield says in his video, [i]you[/i] must be twisting the clubface closed to keep it hooded because that's not a natural result upon take-away.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42m-mF59PVM[/media]
[/quote]

Thanks for the input. This is a lot to think about. I TRY to get into a "feel zone" where I am just swinging and confident about it and that usually works but I lost it again and I feel myself doing involuntary things I cant control. So weird. It's also really hard to go from making full swings then going back to drills to fix issues and then applying the drills to a full swing. It's just hard for me. It works much better for me if I can practice changes WHILE making my full swing. I can sit and do a say 9-3 drill but I still have to make a full swing at some point and 9-3 drill is not a full swing so I can't incorporate it. Not sure if you know what I'm saying..




[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1347070967' post='5605183']
It just looks like you are a little late getting things around - upper and lower body are a little out of sequence, and maybe a little stall and throw to compensate. Could be wrong, though.

I can see that you are a good golfer by some of the things you do in that video.
[/quote]

That's what I'm sayin... something is all the sudden out of sync but I am not sure what it is. It almost feels like my arms are not swinging through the ball with a relaxed extended feeling. It kinda feels like I'm scrunching at impact or slightly trapping myself. I'm just trying to figure out what is causing the bug. Maybe not enough hip rotation in the backswing?

[akiracornell]

i would like to clear up that i am no swing guru. and my hcap is way worse than yours. But i love swing theory and hearing different ideas. that little knee sway and hip slide got me thinking. Look at this video of ricky fowler. His hips and knees stay very stationary at the beginning of the swing,. It appears to me he never tranfers his weight back into the right leg per say. It appear to stay over the ball like a stack n tilt; if not forward atleast centered. but clearly his weight is in the right foot as he is projects forward through the ball. i first noticed this kind of weight transfer in sam sneads swing. it stays over the ball but still comes heavily off the right leg. The right knee stays bent like hogan theory creating more tension unlike the straight leg in the stack n tilt. Its like a more powerful version of the stack n tilt.
[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4V-jhMBGCpo[/media]

[station2station]

[quote name='LUMA' timestamp='1347071925' post='5605281']
Thanks for the input. This is a lot to think about. I TRY to get into a "feel zone" where I am just swinging and confident about it and that usually works but I lost it again and I feel myself doing involuntary things I cant control. So weird. It's also really hard to go from making full swings then going back to drills to fix issues and then applying the drills to a full swing. It's just hard for me. It works much better for me if I can practice changes WHILE making my full swing. I can sit and do a say 9-3 drill but I still have to make a full swing at some point and 9-3 drill is not a full swing so I can't incorporate it. Not sure if you know what I'm saying..

[/quote]

Right, but nobody said do 9-3 drills (maybe you were just giving an example). If you hood your club face you must do some other compensation move or you will hit it left of left. Compensations ruin a naturally fluid golf swing, Cause fat/thin and standing up thru your shot, and a myriad of other bad things.

Just don't twist your club face hooded. It should "feel" like it's opening. The golf swing is an unnatural feeling event so if you like to just "feel" your way around, but you are having issues like you mentioned, maybe some technical info could help. Like Crossfield says, sometimes just [i]understanding[/i] the concept fixes you and you don't need to necessarily do any drills.

But if you don't want to address that particular flaw, that's ok too good luck

[TRoc9892]

[quote name='station2station' timestamp='1347073837' post='5605479']
[quote name='LUMA' timestamp='1347071925' post='5605281']
Thanks for the input. This is a lot to think about. I TRY to get into a "feel zone" where I am just swinging and confident about it and that usually works but I lost it again and I feel myself doing involuntary things I cant control. So weird. It's also really hard to go from making full swings then going back to drills to fix issues and then applying the drills to a full swing. It's just hard for me. It works much better for me if I can practice changes WHILE making my full swing. I can sit and do a say 9-3 drill but I still have to make a full swing at some point and 9-3 drill is not a full swing so I can't incorporate it. Not sure if you know what I'm saying..

[/quote]

Right, but nobody said do 9-3 drills (maybe you were just giving an example). If you hood your club face you must do some other compensation move or you will hit it left of left. Compensations ruin a naturally fluid golf swing, Cause fat/thin and standing up thru your shot, and a myriad of other bad things.

Just don't twist your club face hooded. It should "feel" like it's opening. The golf swing is an unnatural feeling event.

good luck
[/quote]
Yes, you're right, the club is definitely hooded going back, but check the video, at the top of the swing the club is very square, and remains square on the start of the downswing. Due to the fps of the camera it's tough to tell but the club is below the plane on the downswing and slightly over it on the follow-through. A sign he's swinging too much out to the right.

OP when you hit a decent shot, do you're divots start out way right of the target?

[station2station]

[quote name='TRoc9892' timestamp='1347074496' post='5605543']
Yes, you're right, the club is definitely hooded going back, but check the video, at the top of the swing the club is very square, and remains square on the start of the downswing. Due to the fps of the camera it's tough to tell but the club is below the plane on the downswing and slightly over it on the follow-through. A sign he's swinging too much out to the right.

OP when you hit a decent shot, do you're divots start out way right of the target?
[/quote]

agreed at the top - but I think he re-hoods it early (pre-impact) - hence this stand up compensation so he doesn't stick it in the earth...which also jives with your query about divot pointing right.

Also had a few other thoughts on release point but the FPS were not tight enough to see that.

I will add that I really LIKE the fact that your waistline or beltline stays horizontal to the ground. ie you aren't dipping a hip to scoop it. My favorite teaching point is that horizontal waistline. So many struggle with that.

[schlyer]

Probably the sway off the ball. Your right knee moving away, weight getting to outside of right foot. If that does,t come back the same every time, you will get the inconsistent contact. In the video, it doesn't appear your weight gets far enough left at impact.

[TRoc9892]

[quote name='schlyer' timestamp='1347075569' post='5605639']
Probably the sway off the ball. Your right knee moving away, weight getting to outside of right foot. If that does,t come back the same every time, you will get the inconsistent contact. In the video, it doesn't appear your weight gets far enough left at impact.
[/quote]
Agree. Agree.

[LUMA]

Keep the feedback going!

If this helps, here is a video of 2 weeks prior when I was striking the ball fine!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVsKFWcW0-I&list=UUjV9D-rCe5IZf9bWxxKM16g&index=1&feature=plcp

[akiracornell]

[i]i cant tell if its the camera angle but the knee slide seems slightly less and more pure rotation. there are still signs of knee slide in the way you load though. lets compare you to zach johnson as he does a similar thing with the clubhead.[/i]

[i][media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Soba0sGGML8[/media] [/i]

[i]heres a dtl view[/i]

[i][media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uca4332tq2U[/media][/i]

[i]based on what i have seen now, im thinking maybe minimize the lateral push off the right leg as you can see in both frontal videos your knee pushes out sideways with the hip. load up more rotationally, feeling it in the glutes, hams and hip flexor, and rotate that knee inward into the left side. i am solely going off the the zach and fowler swing vids though. [/i]

[justodd]

I have had the same problems, but I am no 4 handi. You are sliding a bit too. Sliding is where the inconsistency is coming from.

[LUMA]

Thanks everybody. I am going to take a little of everything talked about here to the range.

I think mainly I am going to try to start with a more stacked swing to keep that weight more balanced and toward the left leg, more hip rotation in the backswing, and maybe include a more square club face on takeaway.

See what that does. I seem to be getting myself a little stuck at impact but I think it is due to something else so maybe I will make some progress with the opinions here. I need to get that arm and shoulder nice and extended at impact.

[rubch]

I just went through something similar. Then I recalled that whenever I get into these bouts, it's usually because my lower body gets too active. It kind of looks like that in your videos, too. Your latest videos show you firing your lower body off a bit quicker than in your older videos. Perhaps, try to keep your lower body more quiet during your swing. For me, it eliminates toe and thin shots. May work for you, too.

[bacination]

Hello, swing is not bad.

My suggestions for improvement are painful and are really going to test your patience.

Step 1: weaken both grips. Check out hogan's grip. What ultimately will help you improve as a 4 hcp to scratch will not be added distance or power... it will be control. Right now you are pushing or hooking because your face is shut, and so you must compensate to square it byt thrusting your hips forward. If you are too slow you get a pull hook or hook because you get a nasty flip, if you are too fast you get a push because your hands get stuck behind you.

People love to advocate a strong grip these days. The best you can do for your golf game is know and accept where you are going to miss the golf ball. If you do then that makes the game simpler. What you dont want is to have the uncertain possibility of missing right AND left.

Step 2: work on hip flexibility. Your right hip is inflexible or unstable and so you get into a reverse "C" at the top. This is easily remedied withina few months of stretching and workouts. Checkout the titleist TPI videos on youtube they are great.

Overall you have good potential to drop the final 4 strokes of your game. Do not be surprised if your game gets significantly worse after a grip change at first. Your golf mind avidly resists all changes.

Best of luck.