Reducing Shaft Length - Full Scoop

[WRXClarky]

Ok, so I have been reading some of the posts by Tom Wishon. So much knowledge. Anyway, from reading his stuff I am convinced my driver length is too long. I would like to get down to the 44 - 44.5 range for my driver length.

 

I was hoping to get the "full scoop" on all of the implications of cutting off 3/4 to 1 inch off my current shaft.

 

I have read that it decreases swing weight and you need to put on lead tape to recover the lost swing weight. What confuses me is how do you know what swingweight you should actually have?

 

Because, I have two shafts for my 910D2. One is the Aldila Rip which measures 44.25 when not attached to the head. The other is a Kaili measuring 1/4 inch shorter. I have no idea what the different swing weights are for these two shafts combos when attached. I just see how the ball flies differently for each shaft.

 

I guess I am asking why you must automatically add the lead tape. Is there any chance at all the club can be playable and maybe even better without the tape?

 

Do the club manufacturers set the swingweight to be at a certain point with these shafts coming in at 45 and 46 inches?

 

How do the pros do it? I know they average less than 45 inches on their drivers yet I don't see any lead tape on their clubheads.

 

What is the scoop on all of this?

[Jon Robert]

WHY!

Why does everyone want to cut off the shaft when all they have to do is choke up ONE INCH?

You do not have to do anything at all automatically. You can choke up as far as the end of the grip and see how it goes. I cut the end off the grip and installed it well down the shaft to try about 6 inches shorter without cutting. I did not like it so off came the test grip.

"What is the scoop on all of this?" find the length that results in the greatest % of sweet spot hits.

The driver can be described as a different swing altogether so it does not have to match anything.

[WRXClarky]

Assuming the exact same swingweight type conditions, would choking up an inch or two, having the butt end of the club sticking out (like Anthony Kim) have the same launch conditions and results as a cut off club swinging from the regular part of the grip?

I have always wondered this.

[zack175]

I play my Razr fit with AD DI 7x at 44.5 and will never play a longer driver. I lost no swing speed or distance but I feel my driver is more manageable than the stock 45.5.

I don't choke down on my driver unless I'm playing a hard draw with it.
If you choke down all the time you are basically back weighting it by the part of the shaft that is behind the fulcrum(hands)
And grips are made with a taper toward the end of the grip so it feels uncomfortable to me to grip down all the time and I do not like building my grips up an uneven amount (as in 3 wraps under the left and 4 wraps under the right hand)

This is totally my opinion but I believe no one will regret cutting their driver down to around 44.5 to make it a more consistent club with very little if any loss of distance.

[KDMullins]

[quote name='Jon Robert' timestamp='1357359426' post='6171361']
WHY!

Why does everyone want to cut off the shaft when all they have to do is choke up ONE INCH?

You do not have to do anything at all automatically. You can choke up as far as the end of the grip and see how it goes. I cut the end off the grip and installed it well down the shaft to try about 6 inches shorter without cutting. I did not like it so off came the test grip.

"What is the scoop on all of this?" find the length that results in the greatest % of sweet spot hits.

The driver can be described as a different swing altogether so it does not have to match anything.
[/quote]

Primarily because both the static weight and the swing weight would be totally different doing what you describe versus cutting the shaft.

[Socrates]

[quote name='WRXClarky' timestamp='1357355242' post='6170961']
Ok, so I have been reading some of the posts by Tom Wishon. So much knowledge. Anyway, from reading his stuff I am convinced my driver length is too long. I would like to get down to the 44 - 44.5 range for my driver length.

I was hoping to get the "full scoop" on all of the implications of cutting off 3/4 to 1 inch off my current shaft.

I have read that it decreases swing weight and you need to put on lead tape to recover the lost swing weight. What confuses me is how do you know what swingweight you should actually have?

Because, I have two shafts for my 910D2. One is the Aldila Rip which measures 44.25 when not attached to the head. The other is a Kaili measuring 1/4 inch shorter. I have no idea what the different swing weights are for these two shafts combos when attached. I just see how the ball flies differently for each shaft.

I guess I am asking why you must automatically add the lead tape. Is there any chance at all the club can be playable and maybe even better without the tape?

Do the club manufacturers set the swingweight to be at a certain point with these shafts coming in at 45 and 46 inches?

How do the pros do it? I know they average less than 45 inches on their drivers yet I don't see any lead tape on their clubheads.

What is the scoop on all of this?
[/quote]
Without going on a rant, I try and answer some of your questions.
Club manufacturer's do make clubs so that they come out at specific swing weights based on what they want as a standard length. Do you need to adjust the weight if you cut down a shaft? No, there is no [i][u]must[/u][/i] involved. Most people do want to it as they want to restore the feel they had at the longer length. Quite often you can cut it down small amounts and feel no difference or even feel better without the heavier swing weight.

The more advanced shops (including the Tour Vans) will use "hotmelt" injected into the head to bring up the weight so you don't see lead tape used too often on woods. There is nothing wrong with lead tape and some prefer to use it (I being one) because it is easy to apply and easy to take off if desired. Hot melt is very hard to get out of a head.

The choice to cut down or grip down is yours. Some get bent out of shape about it - each to his own. (I get bent out of shape when people take the badges out of clubs thinking they are cool, but that's just me).

[WRXClarky]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1357409635' post='6173339']
[quote name='WRXClarky' timestamp='1357355242' post='6170961']
Ok, so I have been reading some of the posts by Tom Wishon. So much knowledge. Anyway, from reading his stuff I am convinced my driver length is too long. I would like to get down to the 44 - 44.5 range for my driver length.

I was hoping to get the "full scoop" on all of the implications of cutting off 3/4 to 1 inch off my current shaft.

I have read that it decreases swing weight and you need to put on lead tape to recover the lost swing weight. What confuses me is how do you know what swingweight you should actually have?

Because, I have two shafts for my 910D2. One is the Aldila Rip which measures 44.25 when not attached to the head. The other is a Kaili measuring 1/4 inch shorter. I have no idea what the different swing weights are for these two shafts combos when attached. I just see how the ball flies differently for each shaft.

I guess I am asking why you must automatically add the lead tape. Is there any chance at all the club can be playable and maybe even better without the tape?

Do the club manufacturers set the swingweight to be at a certain point with these shafts coming in at 45 and 46 inches?

How do the pros do it? I know they average less than 45 inches on their drivers yet I don't see any lead tape on their clubheads.

What is the scoop on all of this?
[/quote]
Without going on a rant, I try and answer some of your questions.
Club manufacturer's do make clubs so that they come out at specific swing weights based on what they want as a standard length. Do you need to adjust the weight if you cut down a shaft? No, there is no [i][u]must[/u][/i] involved. Most people do want to it as they want to restore the feel they had at the longer length. Quite often you can cut it down small amounts and feel no difference or even feel better without the heavier swing weight.

The more advanced shops (including the Tour Vans) will use "hotmelt" injected into the head to bring up the weight so you don't see lead tape used too often on woods. There is nothing wrong with lead tape and some prefer to use it (I being one) because it is easy to apply and easy to take off if desired. Hot melt is very hard to get out of a head.

The choice to cut down or grip down is yours. Some get bent out of shape about it - each to his own. (I get bent out of shape when people take the badges out of clubs thinking they are cool, but that's just me).
[/quote]

OK, that helps me a bit. So, assuming that I have not yet hit the cut shaft with the head yet, how would someone determine if they need to add weight via lead tape to the clubhead. I.E. What ball flight, swing feeling, etc. would help someone determine that they need to add weight if they don't like the initial results.

[Socrates]

[quote name='WRXClarky' timestamp='1357410362' post='6173403']
OK, that helps me a bit. So, assuming that I have not yet hit the cut shaft with the head yet, how would someone determine if they need to add weight via lead tape to the clubhead. I.E. What ball flight, swing feeling, etc. would help someone determine that they need to add weight if they don't like the initial results.
[/quote]
That's where the lead tape comes in. You can keep adding weight incrementally until you find a happy place (real special if your name is Gilmore). Once you reach that point, you can either keep the lead on or hotmelt it. If you can't find a good weight, you might have to use and extension and replace some of the cut off length and then repeat the process.

[WRXClarky]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1357432389' post='6175085']
[quote name='WRXClarky' timestamp='1357410362' post='6173403']
OK, that helps me a bit. So, assuming that I have not yet hit the cut shaft with the head yet, how would someone determine if they need to add weight via lead tape to the clubhead. I.E. What ball flight, swing feeling, etc. would help someone determine that they need to add weight if they don't like the initial results.
[/quote]
That's where the lead tape comes in. You can keep adding weight incrementally until you find a happy place (real special if your name is Gilmore). Once you reach that point, you can either keep the lead on or hotmelt it. If you can't find a good weight, you might have to use and extension and replace some of the cut off length and then repeat the process.
[/quote]

Got it. Last question. Is there a specific spot on the clubhead that the tape should be put on so it does not cause draw or fade unintentionally.

[Socrates]

[quote name='WRXClarky' timestamp='1357437256' post='6175493']
[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1357432389' post='6175085']
[quote name='WRXClarky' timestamp='1357410362' post='6173403']
OK, that helps me a bit. So, assuming that I have not yet hit the cut shaft with the head yet, how would someone determine if they need to add weight via lead tape to the clubhead. I.E. What ball flight, swing feeling, etc. would help someone determine that they need to add weight if they don't like the initial results.
[/quote]
That's where the lead tape comes in. You can keep adding weight incrementally until you find a happy place (real special if your name is Gilmore). Once you reach that point, you can either keep the lead on or hotmelt it. If you can't find a good weight, you might have to use and extension and replace some of the cut off length and then repeat the process.
[/quote]

Got it. Last question. Is there a specific spot on the clubhead that the tape should be put on so it does not cause draw or fade unintentionally.
[/quote]
Nope. You have to be adding at least 20-25 grams of lead to even begin to minutely affect the CG (well discussed in many threads). Place the lead tape anywhere you like. Most will place it where it can't be seen at address or get caught on anything.

[WRXClarky]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1357442290' post='6175923']
[quote name='WRXClarky' timestamp='1357437256' post='6175493']
[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1357432389' post='6175085']
[quote name='WRXClarky' timestamp='1357410362' post='6173403']
OK, that helps me a bit. So, assuming that I have not yet hit the cut shaft with the head yet, how would someone determine if they need to add weight via lead tape to the clubhead. I.E. What ball flight, swing feeling, etc. would help someone determine that they need to add weight if they don't like the initial results.
[/quote]
That's where the lead tape comes in. You can keep adding weight incrementally until you find a happy place (real special if your name is Gilmore). Once you reach that point, you can either keep the lead on or hotmelt it. If you can't find a good weight, you might have to use and extension and replace some of the cut off length and then repeat the process.
[/quote]

Got it. Last question. Is there a specific spot on the clubhead that the tape should be put on so it does not cause draw or fade unintentionally.
[/quote]
Nope. You have to be adding at least 20-25 grams of lead to even begin to minutely affect the CG (well discussed in many threads). Place the lead tape anywhere you like. Most will place it where it can't be seen at address or get caught on anything.
[/quote]

OK, I lied, one more question. I am going to be taking off 3/4 of an inch off one shaft and a full inch off another. How much tape do I need for these. Is there a direct relationship between the cut off length and the amount (weight) of tape needed?

[Socrates]

[quote name='WRXClarky' timestamp='1357444214' post='6176127']
OK, I lied, one more question. I am going to be taking off 3/4 of an inch off one shaft and a full inch off another. How much tape do I need for these. Is there a direct relationship between the cut off length and the amount (weight) of tape needed?
[/quote]
There is a rough 1/2" = 3 SW points, but there are a couple of variables. One is the balance point of the shaft (some have more tip weight and some have more butt weight), the overall length of the club (as the club gets longer it takes less weight to make a 1 SW change) and another one is grip weight (a heavy grip - i.e. a midsize) and effect how much you need to make a change. The Rule of Thumb is close enough for approximations, but not precise.

Also all lead tape is not the same weight per inch so it would be folly to say that so many inches equals so many grams and then try and figure out how that will affect things. To give you an idea, the lead tape I have is 1/2" wide. 6" of tape equals 6 grams and made a 2 SW difference on a 44.5" driver. Tape of a different density (has more tungsten in it) will give you a whole different result for the same length.

[WRXClarky]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1357451156' post='6176667']
[quote name='WRXClarky' timestamp='1357444214' post='6176127']
OK, I lied, one more question. I am going to be taking off 3/4 of an inch off one shaft and a full inch off another. How much tape do I need for these. Is there a direct relationship between the cut off length and the amount (weight) of tape needed?
[/quote]
There is a rough 1/2" = 3 SW points, but there are a couple of variables. One is the balance point of the shaft (some have more tip weight and some have more butt weight), the overall length of the club (as the club gets longer it takes less weight to make a 1 SW change) and another one is grip weight (a heavy grip - i.e. a midsize) and effect how much you need to make a change. The Rule of Thumb is close enough for approximations, but not precise.

Also all lead tape is not the same weight per inch so it would be folly to say that so many inches equals so many grams and then try and figure out how that will affect things. To give you an idea, the lead tape I have is 1/2" wide. 6" of tape equals 6 grams and made a 2 SW difference on a 44.5" driver. Tape of a different density (has more tungsten in it) will give you a whole different result for the same length.
[/quote]

Ok, thanks. I appreciate your help with this.

[Socrates]

[quote name='WRXClarky' timestamp='1357452605' post='6176745']
[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1357451156' post='6176667']
[quote name='WRXClarky' timestamp='1357444214' post='6176127']
OK, I lied, one more question. I am going to be taking off 3/4 of an inch off one shaft and a full inch off another. How much tape do I need for these. Is there a direct relationship between the cut off length and the amount (weight) of tape needed?
[/quote]
There is a rough 1/2" = 3 SW points, but there are a couple of variables. One is the balance point of the shaft (some have more tip weight and some have more butt weight), the overall length of the club (as the club gets longer it takes less weight to make a 1 SW change) and another one is grip weight (a heavy grip - i.e. a midsize) and effect how much you need to make a change. The Rule of Thumb is close enough for approximations, but not precise.

Also all lead tape is not the same weight per inch so it would be folly to say that so many inches equals so many grams and then try and figure out how that will affect things. To give you an idea, the lead tape I have is 1/2" wide. 6" of tape equals 6 grams and made a 2 SW difference on a 44.5" driver. Tape of a different density (has more tungsten in it) will give you a whole different result for the same length.
[/quote]

Ok, thanks. I appreciate your help with this.
[/quote]
My mistake… 6" was 3 grams. Shouldn't think that hard late at night.

[JasonFL]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1357442290' post='6175923']
[quote name='WRXClarky' timestamp='1357437256' post='6175493']
[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1357432389' post='6175085']
[quote name='WRXClarky' timestamp='1357410362' post='6173403']
OK, that helps me a bit. So, assuming that I have not yet hit the cut shaft with the head yet, how would someone determine if they need to add weight via lead tape to the clubhead. I.E. What ball flight, swing feeling, etc. would help someone determine that they need to add weight if they don't like the initial results.
[/quote]
That's where the lead tape comes in. You can keep adding weight incrementally until you find a happy place (real special if your name is Gilmore). Once you reach that point, you can either keep the lead on or hotmelt it. If you can't find a good weight, you might have to use and extension and replace some of the cut off length and then repeat the process.
[/quote]

Got it. Last question. Is there a specific spot on the clubhead that the tape should be put on so it does not cause draw or fade unintentionally.
[/quote]
Nope. You have to be adding at least 20-25 grams of lead to even begin to minutely affect the CG (well discussed in many threads). Place the lead tape anywhere you like. Most will place it where it can't be seen at address or get caught on anything.
[/quote]

I'm not saying you're wrong at all....

However on a razr fit if you move the 1/2 ounce weight to the toe it makes the shaft feel like mush and makes it a slicing machine.

Maybe this is the torque in the shaft being to weak for the weight. Who knows.

With the 1/2 ounce weight in the heel its hits straight lasers.

Just my experience.

[Socrates]

[quote name='JasonFL' timestamp='1357582570' post='6184007']
I'm not saying you're wrong at all....

However on a razr fit if you move the 1/2 ounce weight to the toe it makes the shaft feel like mush and makes it a slicing machine.

Maybe this is the torque in the shaft being to weak for the weight. Who knows.

With the 1/2 ounce weight in the heel its hits straight lasers.

Just my experience.
[/quote]
Two words: Placebo Effect

Actually that's 4 and a colon. Don't take my word for it, but do a quick search and you will find some very smart people (Wishon for one) that have done testing and will tell you the same thing.

[e46darnell]

Am I correct that thinking cutting my driver shaft down an inch will help to lower my backspin rate?

[Socrates]

[quote name='e46darnell' timestamp='1360015676' post='6362893']
Am I correct that thinking cutting my driver shaft down an inch will help to lower my backspin rate?
[/quote]
No. There isn't any direct correlation.

[VinceRKG]

What I dont get is WHY do avg joe golfers feel going the length the PROS play is going to help them hit better and control better?? SHoot man learn how to swing within your swing and learn how to swing the driver right.....TRY TRY TRY SWING SWING SWING GROOVE GROOVE GROOVE......you can control any length club...once again,...YOU CAN CONTROL ANY LENGTH CLUB....its all about where you place it at....If your soo worried about accuracy being an avg golfer heck just play 3 wood...cause your only going to be 5-10 yards longer witha short driver....

[e46darnell]

Backspin rate. Will it go down if the shaft is tipped instead of taking the length off the grip side?

[Socrates]

[quote name='e46darnell' timestamp='1360340164' post='6388159']
Backspin rate. Will it go down if the shaft is tipped instead of taking the length off the grip side?
[/quote]
Some. You will reduce it more my changing to a different loft, head type, ball type or a different type of shaft.

[e46darnell]

Ok thanks. Looks like I'm going to have to invest.

[inthefairway]

Making sure I constantly hit the sweet spot determines the length of the club. I do not add any weight and have took off from a half inch to an inch off of my different drivers over the years and they work well for me. It happens that a 45 inch driver shaft is what fits me, and I feel comfortable with.